Outlaw Armageddon- Big Chief vs. Robin Roberts

[GTO Dan]

First round match-up. Robin in his Proline Firebird beat Chief in his Butler GTO in a pedalfest.

It raining here so I'm watching no prep racing live on the internet. :)

[Dragncar]

Where is Robbins CVs ?

[LiL Jack]

Benedict Arnold won.


How fast that bag of dicks?

[Hooter]

Where is Robbins CVs ?

He just received them a month ago. Doubt he’s had time to get them on yet.

[Scott Roberts]

Where is Robbins CVs ?

And were off yet again....
I believe that has been explain here several times..why he is running the current car and CV-1 plan for car being built..

[Scott Roberts]

Benedict Arnold won.


How fast that bag of dicks?

Twin turbo 572 Proline.... I'm gonna say real fcking fast.. 4000hp plus would be easy..

[GTO Dan]

Benedict Arnold won.


How fast that bag of dicks?

No clocks, 1/8 mile no prep. Slippin' and sliding on that pass.

[GTO Dan]

Correction...watching round 2 they said Robin was DQ'd because while bumping in to stage he bumped past the starting line. Chief won round 2 in another pedalfest.

[PAUL K]

EHTTFMF!!! Go Chief GO!

[Matt Meaney]

Chief, in a facebook live deal last month, said something about building a firebird (not the crowmod) for no prep duty. maybe a platform to test out a CV headed engine.

[bluegoat65]

Maybe Jackie is going to drive the new car in the no prep scene. Like to see Chief full on tuning. Plus he already has said what combo he is staying with on the street. It works. Plus he bought spare parts. I have not seen him destruct that 482 yet. Not like the rest of the 405. 3rd Gen bird with moly tubing. It would weigh nothing. But still have steel roof, quarters and VIN.

[scott70]

Chief seems to be ticking off some of the people on the show lately. Reaper has a long rant on youtube. Been waiting for him to make some passes on the show but it seems to be alot of everybody else.

[dragracerx2813]

Chief seems to be ticking off some of the people on the show lately. Reaper has a long rant on youtube. Been waiting for him to make some passes on the show but it seems to be alot of everybody else.

I think just about all of them are not happy with Chief. Can't say I blame tham .

[GTO Dan]

I think just about all of them are not happy with Chief. Can't say I blame tham .

It's TV, who knows what's real and what's not.

BTW...Chief lost in round 3 to Monza. He made it to the line but car was hurt and didn't take the light.

[BruceWilkie]

Maybe Jackie is going to drive the new car in the no prep scene. Like to see Chief full on tuning. Plus he already has said what combo he is staying with on the street. It works. Plus he bought spare parts. I have not seen him destruct that 482 yet. Not like the rest of the 405. 3rd Gen bird with moly tubing. It would weigh nothing. But still have steel roof, quarters and VIN.

If he goes 3rd gen he gets an aero advantage. Still one of the best aero bodies out there. Somewhat short wheelbase should transfer weight quick too.
My guess on weight would be 2500-2600 race weight. Depending on driver weight. NA small block 3rd gen about lightest I've seen is @2200. What car gets which heads, who cares...

[dragracerx2813]

It's TV, who knows what's real and what's not.

BTW...Chief lost in round 3 to Monza. He made it to the line but car was hurt and didn't take the light.

Even if they are upset with him, I am pretty sure they know where their paychecks are coming from .

[Dragncar]

If he goes 3rd gen he gets an aero advantage. Still one of the best aero bodies out there. Somewhat short wheelbase should transfer weight quick too.
My guess on weight would be 2500-2600 race weight. Depending on driver weight. NA small block 3rd gen about lightest I've seen is @2200. What car gets which heads, who cares...

I care, tic-toc, tic-toc.

My opinion, if those CVs see the light of day it will not be in the GTO. Thats his bread and butter and he just bought a brand spankin new solid IA2A and a PAIR OF EDELBROCK HEADS !! Whole new engine that he has wrapped his life around and pays the bills.
They will get tested in some secondary ride before they are ready for the big show .

All the drama is nothing more than the producers trying to liven things up 100%.
Same thing about that "fight" where Chuck threw the little Vega dude so hard he slid up his own windshield . That's called assault in the real world. Besides, Vega dude is not going to bow up on Chuck, he would have gotten broken in half.

[S/st 54]

To bad something must've happened with the Robin's bump box or something.

I always want to see Robin do well.
He's a great person with a great family.
Regardless of cylinder head/engine combo/whatever. I'll always root for the guy!

[GTOGEORGE]

I care, tic-toc, tic-toc.

My opinion, if those CVs see the light of day it will not be in the GTO. Thats his bread and butter and he just bought a brand spankin new solid IA2A and a PAIR OF EDELBROCK HEADS !! Whole new engine that he has wrapped his life around and pays the bills.
They will get tested in some secondary ride before they are ready for the big show .

All the drama is nothing more than the producers trying to liven things up 100%.
Same thing about that "fight" where Chuck threw the little Vega dude so hard he slid up his own windshield . That's called assault in the real world. Besides, Vega dude is not going to bow up on Chuck, he would have gotten broken in half.


Chief wanted a spare engine so he could change if needed quickly, it had e-head cus the cv top end isn’t done if they were done his SPARE engine would have it!

GTO George

[Jeff Kinsler]

I would hate to see Robins beautiful firebird get wrecked because of no prep ****. Just dont get why people would build 3 to 4 thousand horsepower engines just to de tune them hoping not to spin or wreck. Good luck to both Chief and Robin!

[GTOGEORGE]

I would hate to see Robins beautiful firebird get wrecked because of no prep ****. Just dont get why people would build 3 to 4 thousand horsepower engines just to de tune them hoping not to spin or wreck. Good luck to both Chief and Robin!

NoPrep is STUPID............but then so is racing on the STREET with that much HP!


GTO George

[bluegoat65]

Ohhhh those tempting no prep payouts keep them coming. George are you going to give the new and improved Lapeer Dragway a try?

[77 TRASHCAN]

[QUOTE=scott70;5917671]Chief seems to be ticking off some of the people on the show lately.

Just lately??? :)

[GTOGEORGE]

Ohhhh those tempting no prep payouts keep them coming. George are you going to give the new and improved Lapeer Dragway a try?

I would love to....their web site sucks, trying to find a schedule!


GTO George

[BruceWilkie]

I care, tic-toc, tic-toc.

My opinion, if those CVs see the light of day it will not be in the GTO. Thats his bread and butter and he just bought a brand spankin new solid IA2A and a PAIR OF EDELBROCK HEADS !! Whole new engine that he has wrapped his life around and pays the bills.
They will get tested in some secondary ride before they are ready for the big show .

All the drama is nothing more than the producers trying to liven things up 100%.
Same thing about that "fight" where Chuck threw the little Vega dude so hard he slid up his own windshield . That's called assault in the real world. Besides, Vega dude is not going to bow up on Chuck, he would have gotten broken in half.

You care that your going to lose our bet. Up bet to $200? Does that work for you??? There was never any agreement about car it's in... just 5 hits on the CV combo . Don't start trying to make loopholes to weasel out.

[BruceWilkie]

I would hate to see Robins beautiful firebird get wrecked because of no prep ****. Just dont get why people would build 3 to 4 thousand horsepower engines just to de tune them hoping not to spin or wreck. Good luck to both Chief and Robin!

Agree... Same mentality as my BBC friend. A car that can and has run 8.80's and he runs super street(10.90) class. " It's easier on parts" !!!

[Dragncar]

Chief wanted a spare engine so he could change if needed quickly, it had e-head cus the cv top end isn’t done if they were done his SPARE engine would have it!

GTO George

If you believe that I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
No one has EVER done it before. The problem rate of CV engines pushed hard is very high. Not much you can say about it. Brian, big problems, Kieth big problems. Others, same.
OK, Fulton, he is not pushing them that hard and Lil Jack would wipe the track with him.
Sure, Robbin is supposed to be building a twin turbo CV engine. Have not see it yet. Same with Chief and he obviously is not banking on them. His go to head will be the E head until proven otherwise.
Not saying they can not do it, but no one has YET !!!
I hear Twin is building a pump gas CV 535 right now. Lets see what it makes.

[Stan Weiss]

If you believe that I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
No one has EVER done it before. The problem rate of CV engines pushed hard is very high. Not much you can say about it. Brian, big problems, Kieth big problems. Others, same.
OK, Fulton, he is not pushing them that hard and Lil Jack would wipe the track with him.
Sure, Robbin is supposed to be building a twin turbo CV engine. Have not see it yet. Same with Chief and he obviously is not banking on them. His go to head will be the E head until proven otherwise.
Not saying they can not do it, but no one has YET !!!
I hear Twin is building a pump gas CV 535 right now. Lets see what it makes.

Absolutely amazing.:D

You own words show you have no clue of what anyone is doing. :eek:

So Kieth is pushing the CV head harder that Fulton. LMFAO

Stan

[GTOGEORGE]

If you believe that I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
No one has EVER done it before. The problem rate of CV engines pushed hard is very high. Not much you can say about it. Brian, big problems, Kieth big problems. Others, same.
OK, Fulton, he is not pushing them that hard and Lil Jack would wipe the track with him.
Sure, Robbin is supposed to be building a twin turbo CV engine. Have not see it yet. Same with Chief and he obviously is not banking on them. His go to head will be the E head until proven otherwise.
Not saying they can not do it, but no one has YET !!!
I hear Twin is building a pump gas CV 535 right now. Lets see what it makes.

Nope....sweetheart you are WRONG in his post he said he wanted to have a spare engine set up so he could change quickly if he broke an engine! YOU gotts to get over this CV thing......geez-oh-petes......get over it, there are OTHER things MORE important in LIFE then RIPPING on CV heads!! REALLY who gives a CRAP except you and your twin on the other Pontiac web site and maybe 2 or 3 other people.

Chief Quote "The engine in my car now is the same engine i’ve had for years. I recently ordered a new block and same e head combo up top, just to have new castings (mine are pretty wore out lol) and with the schedule we have nowadays i have always been a little worried about not having a SPARE ENGINE to swap out, in case i get a little wild with the loud pedal."


GTO George

[JSPONT]

NO PREP = BIG PAY OUT. That's why they do it. Problem is the cars they wreck are not being made anymore. Hate to see old muscle crushed, notch Mustang"s will be extinct soon!!! LOL

Does every thread have to turn into a cylinder head war? It's old. Let's just agree to like Pontiac's what ever head is on it.

[LiL Jack]

Absolutely amazing.:D

You own words show you have no clue of what anyone is doing. :eek:

So Kieth is pushing the CV head harder that Fulton. LMFAO

Stan

His post does not say that.


Fulton did leave the building tho.....

Someone please tell Dick to just send it to BES and call it a day!

[Scott Roberts]

His post does not say that.


Fulton did leave the building tho.....

Someone please tell Dick to just send it to BES and call it a day!

My opinion...
Fulton does not have a power problem.. he has a tuning problem.. both chassis and motor.
You guys are very good at tuning both.. every video I watch of Fultons car shows a lot of wasted energy in the leave... his 150mph 1/8 pass shows me he has plenty of power..

[Scott Roberts]

NO PREP = BIG PAY OUT. That's why they do it. Problem is the cars they wreck are not being made anymore. Hate to see old muscle crushed, notch Mustang"s will be extinct soon!!! LOL

Does every thread have to turn into a cylinder head war? It's old. Let's just agree to like Pontiac's what ever head is on it.


If it wasnt for dragncar, they wouldnt.. I have yest to see a thread where he didnt bring up the cv-1's...

[Dragncar]

Absolutely amazing.:D

You own words show you have no clue of what anyone is doing. :eek:

So Kieth is pushing the CV head harder that Fulton. LMFAO

Stan

Actually I think both of them are apprehensive about running lean and mean. Kieth did say something about just wanting to get down the track without problems. We have not seen DF go after beating that 7.61, tenth better than low level wide ports(7.71). I heard rumors about a 7.56 but who has seen it backed up ?
Show me all the guys who have ported the cr@p out of those things and not had issues ? maybe they exist, maybe they are unicorns ?
Show me the money.

[Dragncar]

If it wasnt for dragncar, they wouldnt.. I have yest to see a thread where he didnt bring up the cv-1's...

I am a big time fan of Pontiacs. Why would I like something that in my own humble opinion set the hobby back ?

[Kevspontiacs@aol.com]

If it wasnt for dragncar, they wouldnt.. I have yest to see a thread where he didnt bring up the cv-1's or his Gabby wide ports...

Fixed it for ya Lol

[BruceWilkie]

I am a big time fan of Pontiacs. Why would I like something that in my own humble opinion set the hobby back ?

Couldn't possibly be people who haven't a clue that take jabs at things they know little about.


You don't think your constant interjection doesn't drive people away?

Every thread just about, there you are regurgitating mostly BS or only looking at a side of a story YOU want to hear.

Ever think that the truth is somewhere between the stories( or exaggerated to save face)?

Maybe intelligent reasoning is beyond your capabilities .

You started showing up here regularly last summer...and started with your CV mythology. I called you out on the BS... And you've been on campaign since. Even taking shots at me while I was in the hospital. I didn't respond. Throwing mistruths about me being on meds etc. You Mr DRAGBOY are a classless clueless idiot.

If there is anyone besides Gach that is contributing to the "setback of the Pontiac hobby" you are right in line behind him.
No Dragnqueen people DONT come here to hear you gossip, get over yourself and GROW UP.

[GTO Dan]

I am a big time fan of Pontiacs. Why would I like something that in my own humble opinion set the hobby back ?

Pontiacs are my thing but I also like and respect other brands, especially if they are fast doorslammer racecars.

[chiefbigb]

Ahh yes. Soon you guys will be slandered and be told about gay porn posters with 70s mustaches. It's all on the way.

[BADDTA]

If you believe that I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
No one has EVER done it before. The problem rate of CV engines pushed hard is very high. Not much you can say about it. Brian, big problems, Kieth big problems. Others, same.
OK, Fulton, he is not pushing them that hard and Lil Jack would wipe the track with him.
Sure, Robbin is supposed to be building a twin turbo CV engine. Have not see it yet. Same with Chief and he obviously is not banking on them. His go to head will be the E head until proven otherwise.
Not saying they can not do it, but no one has YET !!!
I hear Twin is building a pump gas CV 535 right now. Lets see what it makes.

Your like the weatherman that says "it'll be a mixed bag tomorrow". So it could be sunny, cloudy, rainy, hot, cold, snowy, blustery, foggy, dry, beautiful, hazy, windy, calm, treacherous, mild, etc.

i.e. your full of sh!t and can't be wrong no matter what you say.

Brian

[JSPONT]

I am a big time fan of Pontiacs. Why would I like something that in my own humble opinion set the hobby back ?

Stop, Wenzler, Tigers, KRE, and Edelbrock, all had problems. If it was not for them we would not be anywhere near where we are now. So how does one head set back Pontiac when there are many choices, and others do not?
Learn to read, gather info and make an informed choice that suits you. We all get it you do not like CV-1. Can you not mention it for a year or so now?

Like stated before, 1/2 a story, is 1/2 the truth. One bad tune can end your day fast no matter what head. ( especially with power adders)

[Dragncar]

Stop, Wenzler, Tigers, KRE, and Edelbrock, all had problems. If it was not for them we would not be anywhere near where we are now. So how does one head set back Pontiac when there are many choices, and others do not?
Learn to read, gather info and make an informed choice that suits you. We all get it you do not like CV-1. Can you not mention it for a year or so now?

Like stated before, 1/2 a story, is 1/2 the truth. One bad tune can end your day fast no matter what head. ( especially with power adders)

I know about all the issues those other heads had. It seems they did not go about addressing the issues they way this crowd did.
Its about how you treat people, simple as that.
I will take your advice and get off the soap box for a bit, as long as they do.
Everyone already has a opinion on the matter.
I do have a bet going on, keep it to that.

[Stan Weiss]

I know about all the issues those other heads had. It seems they did not go about addressing the issues they way this crowd did.
Its about how you treat people, simple as that.
I will take your advice and get off the soap box for a bit, as long as they do.
Everyone already has a opinion on the matter.
I do have a bet going on, keep it to that.

You botch more about the CV1's than people who own / have owned them.

I am sure shy, timidity and reserved Brian Hedrick who would never say a bad word :rolleyes: is glad you are speaking up for him and the other owners.

L M F A O

Stan

[Dragncar]

Anyone know what happened to Chiefs engine last nite ? Hole in the turbo pipe work ?
Time for the spare engine maybe.

[slowbird]

Anyone know what happened to Chiefs engine last nite ? Hole in the turbo pipe work ?
Time for the spare engine maybe.

I heard the e-heads were the issue

[bluegoat65]

Well back at post #11 I may have put the jinx on Chief. Even though last night was some weeks ago. Sorry Chief. To bad too cause it looked by my eye Chief had Dave maybe slightly gaped at the 330 just a rolling along. Well thats racing. Also I have to commend Chief for offering to move aside for Ryan. Now that fella seems to have lost his head. But just my opinion.

[BruceWilkie]

I heard the e-heads were the issue

OMG you're going to give him a heart attack!

[Dragncar]

I heard the e-heads were the issue

If a valve or seat let go, they owe him nothing. His name was made on those heads. He said they were worn.
Next up, another set of E heads, bank on it.

[slowbird]

OMG you're going to give him a heart attack!

Lol! I figure if other heads get blamed for everything then why not blame the e-heads :)

[PAUL K]

Lol! I figure if other heads get blamed for everything then why not blame the e-heads :)

E-heads are to the front "for a reason".

EHTTFMF!

[PAUL K]

OMG you're going to give him a heart attack!

Too much butter on the :popcorn: will do that. ;)

[Scott Roberts]

If a valve or seat let go, they owe him nothing. His name was made on those heads. He said they were worn.
Next up, another set of E heads, bank on it.

Clear shot at cv-1's without mentioning them.... you're getting better....

[Scott Roberts]

E-heads are to the front "for a reason".

EHTTFMF!

Old faithfuls....

[bluegoat65]

Its like watching a couple gunfighters toy....

Lol.

[gene simmons]

Anyone know what happened to Chiefs engine last nite ? Hole in the turbo pipe work ?
Time for the spare engine maybe.
It was Reaper.

[gene simmons]

E-heads are to the front "for a reason".

EHTTFMF!

Because they can be shipped over night from Summit.

[Dragncar]

It was Reaper.

Don't think so. A piece of metal"exited" somewhere in the piping. I still have it on DVR, see if I can get a better look at it tomorrow.
He told me once that the car gets beat on. Not anywhere near a show car and hammers the he!! out of it.
First time I have ever seen him break it.

[GTOGEORGE]

Beats on his car.....must make 1-2 passes a week maybe! Most racers make 4-10 passes every time out. Everyone racing their cars beats them up! Some racers run the 1/4 mile!


GTO George

[LiL Jack]

Beats on his car.....must make 1-2 passes a week maybe! Most racers make 4-10 passes every time out. Everyone racing their cars beats them up! Some racers run the 1/4 mile!


GTO George

The hate is strong in you.


So is the butt hurt.

[GTOGEORGE]

The hate is strong in you.


So is the butt hurt.

Lot of racers (not you) beat their cars up weekly on 1/4 mile tracks or just making 4-10 passes weekly! A Bracket Racer Racing in a 3 day Bracket Race will make a dozen passes or more! You don’t understand you’ve been spoon fed.
....and how in the hell am I butt hurt, you make no sense!

GTO George

[GTO Dan]

Beats on his car.....must make 1-2 passes a week maybe! Most racers make 4-10 passes every time out. Everyone racing their cars beats them up! Some racers run the 1/4 mile!


GTO George

He pushes his car just a little more than your 8lbs of boost bracket racer.

[ho428]

Also I have to commend Chief for offering to move aside for Ryan. Now that fella seems to have lost his head. But just my opinion.

Not sure what's up with Ryan his season. Pissing and moaning doesn't become him at all.
I'm sure they all know what's going on, he has to know about the hole in the pipe on Chief's engine.
My guess is a Turbo fan blade let loose.

The one I don't care for is Chuck, so two faced. Says he won't take a spot if he can't race them, then does it. Won't race if his car isn't 100% but expects his competition to. I just don't care for people like that.
Reaper's car doesn't belong on the list anymore, if there's a next season I'd bet Kamikaze comes back to take his spot, but as a person I bet Reaper would do anything for you if asked. Big heart, lousy car guy.

[Rob B]

Lot of racers (not you) beat their cars up weekly on 1/4 mile tracks or just making 4-10 passes weekly! A Bracket Racer Racing in a 3 day Bracket Race will make a dozen passes or more! You don’t understand you’ve been spoon fed.
....and how in the hell am I butt hurt, you make no sense!

GTO George

Norwalk alone was 22 passes on my car and damn near the same on the wife's. Thats what they are built for....
Some build for Max performance and consequently put durability and consistency aside aiming for that holy grail of an ET/HP # they have in mind.
Some build for durability and shoot for the best overall performance knowing they can beat the p#ss out of them for hundreds of passes and then some with doing nothing more than change the oil and run the valves from time to time.
Kinda hard to fault either style of individual or criticize them for the path's they choose.

[67GTO4SPEED]

Lot of racers (not you) beat their cars up weekly on 1/4 mile tracks or just making 4-10 passes weekly! A Bracket Racer Racing in a 3 day Bracket Race will make a dozen passes or more! You don’t understand you’ve been spoon fed.
....and how in the hell am I butt hurt, you make no sense!

GTO George

Yeah, but bracket guys build slow (relative to how fast their cars would/could be with max effort) reliable cars to just that. You are not beating on your car anywhere near what a guy that runs any kind of heads up racing does.

No matter how bad you want to believe that, it simply is not true.

[GTOGEORGE]

He pushes his car just a little more than your 8lbs of boost bracket racer.

I run 11.5 and my comments were not about me.

[GTOGEORGE]

There are a lot of racers......FAST racers (race cars) out there that run a lot of laps out there when they race. Just because there not racing heads up doesnt mean their not beating the SH_T out of their cars very week! You guys need to get out more, and just because someone is bracket racer doesnt mean he's not throwing everything he has unto his car/engine......its called PRIDE!

GTO George

[67GTO4SPEED]

There are a lot of racers......FAST racers (race cars) out there that run a lot of laps out there when they race. Just because there not racing heads up doesnt mean their not beating the SH_T out of their cars very week! You guys need to get out more, and just because someone is bracket racer doesnt mean he's not throwing everything he has unto his car/engine......its called PRIDE!

GTO George

The list of bracket racing, running their as fast it could possibly go, is extremely short, if it exists at all? Why would anybody bracket racing do that? A car is not going to be as consistent or reliable running full out.

[slowbird]

The list of bracket racing, running their as fast it could possibly go, is extremely short, if it exists at all? Why would anybody bracket racing do that? A car is not going to be as consistent or reliable running full out.

It's pointless arguing with George

[ho428]

It's pointless arguing with George

:popcorn::beerchug:

[GTOGEORGE]

The list of bracket racing, running their as fast it could possibly go, is extremely short, if it exists at all? Why would anybody bracket racing do that? A car is not going to be as consistent or reliable running full out.

Top Sportsmen racing...........6-7 sec door cars trying to qualify for a very quick field (32 cars or more) going 5 rounds or more, that have to be very consistent. Door cars at Norwalks NHRA Nationals were as quick as 6.1 sec @ 232 mph.


GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

It's pointless arguing with George

We are discussing, well at least I am! Just because i have a different view then others doesnt make it an argument.

GTO George

[slowbird]

We are discussing, well at least I am! Just because i have a different view then others doesnt make it an argument.

GTO George

True but you seem pretty closed minded so it isn't much of a discussion

[Dragncar]

I bracket race because its all I can afford to do and the only form of racing I can do locally. I am VERY lucky to have a 1/4 mile track on the ocean 20 min from my house.
But all bracket racers want to heads up race, or "should" want to heads up race if they could. I admire the he!! out of guys that have done well enough in life to be able to afford to heads up race at a high level in a Pontiac. The vast majority of us should be pumping more into other things, retirement ect than the money pits we all have and love.
But you can die tomorrow so what does it all mean ?
Have fun to the best of your ability and means to do so within reason because you can't do what you love and hang with the people you love if you are dead.

[Dragncar]

BTW, I have been accused of liking to argue before. Some truth to that but I like to use the term discussion, maybe spirited discussion.
But you got me George. You would argue with a rock.
There is give and take in a argument and the WORST kind of person to have a discussion with is the kind of person that does not listen to a word you are saying. While you are saying your points they do not listen at all, just spent that time thinking about what they are going to say while their eyes glaze over.
Don't have the intellect to think about two things at once, only their side.
Not worth your time.

[twooldgoats]

.....George. You would argue with a rock.
....


And, in your case, he did.:D


Jim

[slowbird]

And, in your case, he did.:D


Jim

Lol!!!!

[dragracerx2813]

And, in your case, he did.:D


Jim

LOL

[Dragncar]

And, in your case, he did.:D


Jim

D@mn, that must put you in the top 2-3 %. Congrats.

[twooldgoats]

D@mn, that must put you in the top 2-3 %. Congrats.


I've always been in the top 2-3%. :)


Jim

[gene simmons]

I've always been in the top 2-3%. :)


Jim

:) Jim ttf....

[Kevspontiacs@aol.com]

Top Sportsmen racing...........6-7 sec door cars trying to qualify for a very quick field (32 cars or more) going 5 rounds or more, that have to be very consistent. Door cars at Norwalks NHRA Nationals were as quick as 6.1 sec @ 232 mph.


GTO George

Honest question because I don't follow bracket racing but are there any turbo cars in top sportsman?

[GTOGEORGE]

Honest question because I don't follow bracket racing but are there any turbo cars in top sportsman?

There might have been 1 (one). Mostly Roots Blowers, Procharger (direct drive and belt) & Nitrous.



GTO George

[dragracerx2813]

There might have been 1 (one). Mostly Roots Blowers, Procharger (direct drive and belt) & Nitrous.



GTO George

At the Gatornationals this year there were few turbo cars.

[Gary H]

Curt Geise who used to frequent here regularly ran a Pontiac powered turbo car in top sportsman. I think he went to the dark side power plant wise though recently

[BruceWilkie]

Curt Geise who used to frequent here regularly ran a Pontiac powered turbo car in top sportsman. I think he went to the dark side power plant wise though recently
He sold GTO to a Pontiac guy and put brand in his supergas car iirc

[65nss4spdGTO]

Honest question because I don't follow bracket racing but are there any turbo cars in top sportsman?

Most Top Sportsman racers strive for the quickest and fastest builds. Guarantees tops spots in a limited field, 32 cars or less. Big cubic inch, power adders, and yes turbos even though many find them not as consistent as it’s a high HP bracket race. It would be like taking the fastest 32 Pontiacs, Kinsler, Langer, Dwight Snyder, Fulton, Sik, Roberts, and others all running balls out then putting a number on the window.

Oh yea, almost Forgot Liljack.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[67GTO4SPEED]

It would be like taking the fastest 32 Pontiacs, Kinsler, Langer, Dwight Snyder, Fulton, Sik, Roberts, and others all running balls out then putting a number on the window.

Oh yea, almost Forgot Liljack.



I get the point of your post, but about being the fastest. It's still not 32 guys trying to the be fastest car there at the end of the day. The #32 qualifier could still potentially (though unlikely) could be the "winner". Top Sportsman is about as good as bracket racing gets, for sure, but the guys on your list .for the most part, aren't interested in handicap racing.


The reason so many guys went to bracket racing was that they couldn't afford to run in class races because big money guys are always faster, and I get that. I've never had the budget to be a big dog, but I get in where I fit in. I've always found guys to race that were on my level.
I've been called everything from a hustler, a dirty grudge racer, to a test n tune warrior by my buddies who bracket race. Hell, I'm content to go the track and make passes by myself as long as the car is faster this time at that track that it was last time.

If I race a guy and I make a good pass, and I get my ass kicked, then he's out my league. If it's close, or I spin or whatever, I'm going to try to race him again. I've raced some guys 3 times before and won 2 of the and I've won 2 of the 3. If I win 2 of the whatever, I won that night. If I lost close race, I'm going to try to come back faster next time, if anyway possible.

I'm not knocking guys who bracket race, it's just not my thing. I'd rather race guys heads up win, lose, or draw. If I get beat, that's fine - I lost. But I'm going never going to lose a race because my car went too fast!

I don't have any trophies in my kind of racing, though! :)

I have used money that came straight out of another guy's wallet to put fuel in my truck and to buy supper on the way home from the track.👍 I've also bought stuff for other guys that took my money too!👎🏻;)

[GTOGEORGE]

Class Racing is basically Bracket Racing with stricked rules. It’s like I’ve always said a good Bracket Racer would have no problem running a heads up pro tree.....not so much the other!
I’m thinking some of those top sportsman racers are running their cars a lot harder then you think they are. Kensler doesn’t run his car at 100% he’s pulling back on power to get down the track.



GTO George

[Stan Weiss]

Class Racing is basically Bracket Racing with stricked rules. It’s like I’ve always said a good Bracket Racer would have no problem running a heads up pro tree.....not so much the other!
I’m thinking some of those top sportsman racers are running their cars a lot harder then you think they are. Kensler doesn’t run his car at 100% he’s pulling back on power to get down the track.



GTO George

GTOGeorge,
You are right and you are wrong. Jeff pulls power to adjust for starting line traction. Be he then dials all of that power back in as he goes down the track.

Just to clarify that is called tuning. ;)

Stan

[65nss4spdGTO]

I get the point of your post, but about being the fastest. It's still not 32 guys trying to the be fastest car there at the end of the day. The #32 qualifier could still potentially (though unlikely) could be the "winner". Top Sportsman is about as good as bracket racing gets, for sure, but the guys on your list .for the most part, aren't interested in handicap racing.

My point for bringing it up is the difference between platforms. The traditional Pontiac engine for TS would be bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Here is a list of the TS qualifying from this years NHRA Gator Nationals.

01 Lester Johnson 5.949 244.16
02 Jeffrey Barker 6.376 222.51
03 Allen Firestone 6.491 217.25
04 Royce Freeman 6.610 213.37
05 Jason Lynch 6.614 215.44
06 Chadrick Morrison 6.618 208.88
07 Tommy Turner 6.663 213.43
08 Jeff Brooks 6.682 206.23
09 Curtis Fredrich 6.695 208.55
10 Dillon Stott 6.763 202.33
11 Casey Spradlin 6.780 208.91
12 Ronald Proctor 6.824 201.7
13 Edward Foley 7.020 201.61
14 Mark Roberts 7.021 194.32
15 Timothy Weise 7.182 200.59
16 Johnny Hollis 7.305 184.55

I'm not knocking bracket racing or any form of it. I really like index style bracket racing vs the super classes, but to each their own. In today's world of heads up racing, the first and most important factor is the rules and trying to level the playing field, this is a constant ongoing argument.

The Street Outlaw cars are not street cars, they are highly developed race cars that happen to race on a closed off street with no timing systems.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[slowbird]

Scott Rex runs top sportsman and i believe he does pretty well

[S/st 54]

Calvin I'm confused by the you prefer Index racing vs super class racing comment. I think 8.90 9.90 and 10.90 are still indexes and "heads up classes"

Here is a secret people really can't seem to figure out.....it doesn't matter one bit what kind of drag racing you do.IF you want to be successful..consistency and repeatability HAS TO HAS TO HAS TO be the foundation of your program plain and simple! If not,you will be lost for a long time!

As for the fast bracket classes being inconsistent.....qualifying from the 1st Topeka top dragster field this year....6.339 was the #32 spot....most of the qualified cars were gear driven prochargers and go on the track like a broken record or a skipping CD...and they can all usually hit the tree pretty dang well.Can a Pontiac powered Dragster run a 6.00-to a 6.339 CONSISTENTLY enough to put together 5rds?
Or can a Pontiac powered door car be in the high 6's and be competitive? Rex.....wo a doubt in my mind the guy is a stud! But for Pontiac powered guys it's pick and choose and how far are you willing to drive to make the not full field...

As for Top Sportsman? It's as vicious as it comes! The cars that repeat WIN!


The Midwest Pro Mods the cars that REPEAT WIN!
The sanctioned body LEGAL PRO MODS THAT REPEAT WIN!

Alcohol dragsters,alcohol funny cars, fuel dragsters,fuel funny cars,pro stock,mountain motor pro stock IT DOES NOT MATTER THEY HAVE TO REPEAT AND BE CONSISTENT TO WIN!
The heads up guys just have to work harder at keeping the variables the same to be consistent! Period!


Hats off to the heads up guys that crush it that stuff isn't easy!

The Pontiac platform is behind because vendors seem to think if you own a Pontiac powered car you either (A) only have to make it to Norwalk for that once a year Pontiac race. AND YOU WILL RECIEVE YOUR PARTS ACCORDINGLY
Or
(B) they can't seem to figure out what time of year the race season starts.


My favorite advice I got from a "expert" I STILL LAUGH AT was you throttle stop race with a Pontiac if ya wana go fast put 1 or more turbos on it! At your cost to try and figure out how to make it competitive......not saying it can't or won't be done..... However that was advice from 2 people that haven't been on the race track in this century....

[gene simmons]

Throttle stop racing is painful to watch. The person who invented it should be kicked in the NUTZ! :)

[BruceWilkie]

Throttle stop racing is painful to watch. The person who invented it should be kicked in the NUTZ! :)


TRUTH

[dragracerx2813]

Throttle stop racing is painful to watch. The person who invented it should be kicked in the NUTZ! :)

Take it from a guy that has run super comp and super gas. There is nothing worse than a throttle stop coming on right after you launch. Talk about taking all the fun out of a run. I was good at it . But was it ever boring !

[S/st 54]

Throttle stop racing is painful to watch. The person who invented it should be kicked in the NUTZ! :)

What a coincidence! So is keyboard racers!
At least you have been down the track this century.

[gene simmons]

What a coincidence! So is keyboard racers!
At least you have been down the track this century.

Absolutely! i just hope i can get my heap together, once again,to enjoy it,that's what racing is about,or at least should be. It used to be for me.

For now,i will have to be satisfied with being slowbirds pit b!tch,but would also like to see Paul K at our local track,with his new setup. :thumbup:

[Stan Weiss]

My point for bringing it up is the difference between platforms. The traditional Pontiac engine for TS would be bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Here is a list of the TS qualifying from this years NHRA Gator Nationals.

01 Lester Johnson 5.949 244.16
02 Jeffrey Barker 6.376 222.51
03 Allen Firestone 6.491 217.25
04 Royce Freeman 6.610 213.37
05 Jason Lynch 6.614 215.44
06 Chadrick Morrison 6.618 208.88
07 Tommy Turner 6.663 213.43
08 Jeff Brooks 6.682 206.23
09 Curtis Fredrich 6.695 208.55
10 Dillon Stott 6.763 202.33
11 Casey Spradlin 6.780 208.91
12 Ronald Proctor 6.824 201.7
13 Edward Foley 7.020 201.61
14 Mark Roberts 7.021 194.32
15 Timothy Weise 7.182 200.59
16 Johnny Hollis 7.305 184.55

I'm not knocking bracket racing or any form of it. I really like index style bracket racing vs the super classes, but to each their own. In today's world of heads up racing, the first and most important factor is the rules and trying to level the playing field, this is a constant ongoing argument.

The Street Outlaw cars are not street cars, they are highly developed race cars that happen to race on a closed off street with no timing systems.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Calvin,
A couple of questions.
1) What all you calling a traditional Pontiac?

2) While mostly a 1/8 car. Tony and Team has run 7.22 in the 1/4 mile @ 3600+ pounds which would have made the field. What would that engine or a duplicate run in 2350# ex pro Stock car or 1900# dragster?

I have it at number 2 on that list in a 1900# dragster. But then I just race computers. ;)

Stan

[GTOGEORGE]

Calvin,
A couple of questions.
1) What all you calling a traditional Pontiac?

2) While mostly a 1/8 car. Tony and Team has run 7.22 in the 1/4 mile @ 3600+ pounds which would have made the field. What would that engine or a duplicate run in 2350# ex pro Stock car or 1900# dragster?

I have it at number 2 on that list in a 1900# dragster. But then I just race computers. ;)

Stan

T/S cars have to run a certain weight I’m guessing between 2,500-2,700 lbs.
A traditional Pontiac is a block that a stock Pontiac crank ( 400 , 455 etc.) & heads will work/fit.


GTO George

[Dragncar]

Take it from a guy that has run super comp and super gas. There is nothing worse than a throttle stop coming on right after you launch. Talk about taking all the fun out of a run. I was good at it . But was it ever boring !

Last month I raced a low 8ish Ford, or so I thought. We took off at the same time in eliminations and I thought he made a mistake and I had him. Cut a decent light, .021, then he came and clipped me at the end cutting a .011 light.
He was 10.90 index racing. Great guy though. Made sure I raced him in time trials on Sunday for fun. Sorta like heads up.

[Dragncar]

Calvin,
A couple of questions.
1) What all you calling a traditional Pontiac?

2) While mostly a 1/8 car. Tony and Team has run 7.22 in the 1/4 mile @ 3600+ pounds which would have made the field. What would that engine or a duplicate run in 2350# ex pro Stock car or 1900# dragster?

I have it at number 2 on that list in a 1900# dragster. But then I just race computers. ;)

Stan

Kinda agree. Why couldn't a Pontiac making a reliable boosted 1600-1800 HP run in Top Sportsman ?

[BADDTA]

Throttle stop racing is painful to watch. The person who invented it should be kicked in the NUTZ! :)

X 1 trillion

Brian

[BADDTA]

Throttle stop racing is painful to watch. The person who invented it should be kicked in the NUTZ! :)

X 1 trillion

Brian

[BADDTA]

Yes I said it twice. It's that painful. The first time I saw it with my son I was like
"WTF is wrong with those cars!"

Brian

[GTOGEORGE]

Last month I raced a low 8ish Ford, or so I thought. We took off at the same time in eliminations and I thought he made a mistake and I had him. Cut a decent light, .021, then he came and clipped me at the end cutting a .011 light.
He was 10.90 index racing. Great guy though. Made sure I raced him in time trials on Sunday for fun. Sorta like heads up.

Basically he smacked you on the tree! LOL!


GTO George

[twooldgoats]

Yes I said it twice. It's that painful. The first time I saw it with my son I was like
"WTF is wrong with those cars!"

Brian


Yes, try to explain it to a friend you take to the track who might be interested in becoming a regular fan. Impossible!


I get why racers like it, but it sucks for spectators.



Jim

[JSPONT]

https://youtu.be/eA48ffr7PbU

Here is what the thread is about. Nice car! Baddd Azzz

[gene simmons]

Yes I said it twice. It's that painful. The first time I saw it with my son I was like
"WTF is wrong with those cars!"

Brian
X2
That was worth a double post. Lol
Right on brother!

[gene simmons]

Yes, try to explain it to a friend you take to the track who might be interested in becoming a regular fan. Impossible!


I get why racers like it, but it sucks for spectators.



Jim

Exactly!

[Stan Weiss]

Kinda agree. Why couldn't a Pontiac making a reliable boosted 1600-1800 HP run in Top Sportsman ?

People who have dynoed engines and than run at the track have told me my HP numbers for an et / mph, car weight are very conservative. On that note I am using greater than 1800 HP to simulate the purple GTO.

Stan

[S/st 54]

Yes, try to explain it to a friend you take to the track who might be interested in becoming a regular fan. Impossible!


I get why racers like it, but it sucks for spectators.



Jim

Right! The spectators are at the wrong end of the track but hay everyone has there own opinion.

What's sad is the .90 classes have the highest car counts and yet I had a Pontiac vendor try to dictate the same thing (that stop racing sucks) because more or less they didn't understand it,and them try to persuade me to go the turbo and a 3spd transmission route to ACCOMPLISH THEIR GOALS on my dime,to quote "save me money" if I would have listened.

I still wish those guys luck now they have some good folks going the turbo...heads up route.


You guys can pile on throttle stop racing all ya want everyone has heard it all before. It's just like golf sucks to watch fun to play.
Still don't divert away from the question 6.329 top dragster #32 spot is there a Pontiac powered car that can cut in on that 6.00-6.329 and be reliable enough to go the 5rounds to win it?
And Same question for Top Sportsman? Courts old car,Cooper Maybe Scott Rex if the bump is slow enough and who?

[gene simmons]

Right! The spectators are at the wrong end of the track but hay everyone has there own opinion.
I don't qualify as a keyboard racer,since i don't give advice. Spectating is all i have,why would i go to a race to sit at the end of the track.
Forget TS,just race. OK back to your question.

[Dragncar]

Basically he smacked you on the tree! LOL!


GTO George

He is a very good bracket racer. His family lives here but he lives in Phoenix so he can do the big dollar bracket races. Has the contingency stickers all over. Says you get paid pretty good when you win nationals. 300$ per sticker for nationals and 150$ for divisional. has 30-35 stickers.
One of the few racers I have never beat in competition. Just time trials.

[67GTO4SPEED]

Right! The spectators are at the wrong end of the track but hay everyone has there own opinion.

What's sad is the .90 classes have the highest car counts and yet I had a Pontiac vendor try to dictate the same thing (that stop racing sucks) because more or less they didn't understand it,and them try to persuade me to go the turbo and a 3spd transmission route to ACCOMPLISH THEIR GOALS on my dime,to quote "save me money" if I would have listened.

I still wish those guys luck now they have some good folks going the turbo...heads up route.


You guys can pile on throttle stop racing all ya want everyone has heard it all before. It's just like golf sucks to watch fun to play.
Still don't divert away from the question 6.329 top dragster #32 spot is there a Pontiac powered car that can cut in on that 6.00-6.329 and be reliable enough to go the 5rounds to win it?
And Same question for Top Sportsman? Courts old car,Cooper Maybe Scott Rex if the bump is slow enough and who?

Chief's car was running 6.30's at Indy (in the Crowmod) pretty consistently and was reliable. He was running way less boost than he normally does and at a heavier weight. If he wasn't limited to the mandated wastegstes and 36 psi he had to run at Indy, it would be faster. Obviously his std port 350 cfm heads, though effective, could be improved upon for making more power. I see no reason it couldn't be doable. Chief's car has shown that it can go rounds many times at no prep events. He had a string of somehthing like 4.10, 4.05, 4.03, 4.01, and finally 3.99 on radials without the trouble after he got his main bearing situation straightened out. Those 1/8 times indicate that without the NHRA 36 psi restriction, his car would have much deeper in the 6's reliably.

Luckily (IMHO) not many guys building Pontiacs that fast are interested in bracket racing them.

Could it be done,? - I think so. As a fan and competitor of heads up racing, and a fan of seeing Pontiacs continue to get faster, I hope nobody wastes a Pontiac powered car that fast bracket racing. Again, just my opinion.

That being said, I'll pull for them to win and hope the best for them if they did! 👍

[GTOGEORGE]

1/8 mile huh.........wow! :)


GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

Chief actually did a good job at Indy, it’s just too bad he wasted his time just to say he ran pro mod at Indy. If he was really serious he would have put a better flowing set of e heads (400 or more) on his car and maybe qualified! I’m sure anyone (Butler or whoever) would have given him a set just to throw on there for Indy. It was a nice try!



GTO George

[67GTO4SPEED]

1/8 mile huh.........wow! :)


GTO George

Yep, that's where the money and the crowd is at! 😉

[67GTO4SPEED]

Chief actually did a good job at Indy, it’s just too bad he wasted his time just to say he ran pro mod at Indy. If he was really serious he would have put a better flowing set of e heads (400 or more) on his car and maybe qualified! I’m sure anyone (Butler or whoever) would have given him a set just to throw on there for Indy. It was a nice try!



GTO George

I agree, it was a good showing for the car out there with any semblance of a production engine.

At risk the turning this into Head Wars edition 4,464,657,765 I wonder if that's his intention with the CV1 topend?

[S/st 54]

Chief's car was running 6.30's at Indy (in the Crowmod) pretty consistently and was reliable. He was running way less boost than he normally does and at a heavier weight. If he wasn't limited to the mandated wastegstes and 36 psi he had to run at Indy, it would be faster. Obviously his std port 350 cfm heads, though effective, could be improved upon for making more power. I see no reason it couldn't be doable. Chief's car has shown that it can go rounds many times at no prep events. He had a string of somehthing like 4.10, 4.05, 4.03, 4.01, and finally 3.99 on radials without the trouble after he got his main bearing situation straightened out. Those 1/8 times indicate that without the NHRA 36 psi restriction, his car would have much deeper in the 6's reliably.

Luckily (IMHO) not many guys building Pontiacs that fast are interested in bracket racing them.

Could it be done,? - I think so. As a fan and competitor of heads up racing, and a fan of seeing Pontiacs continue to get faster, I hope nobody wastes a Pontiac powered car that fast bracket racing. Again, just my opinion.

That being said, I'll pull for them to win and hope the best for them if they did! ��



How did he qualify for that 16 car field(30 what out of how many cars?) with ZERO grade points?
What was his best light?
-CHIEF DID...establish a baseline.
Have consistency and repeat ability to start with and go from there to make the cat go faster.
The guy is a smart racer/tuner!
Did Chiefs showing at Indy show how far behind the Pontiac world is?

I CAN NOT fault Chief at all! He was/is making better $$ street racing than any of us guys that are traveling our butts off to try and get that Wally.

You bet your a$$ I'm always pulling for Pontiac powered cars!

[67GTO4SPEED]

How did he qualify for that 16 car field(30 what out of how many cars?) with ZERO grade points?
What was his best light?
-CHIEF DID...establish a baseline.
Have consistency and repeat ability to start with and go from there to make the cat go faster.
The guy is a smart racer/tuner!
Did Chiefs showing at Indy show how far behind the Pontiac world is?

I CAN NOT fault Chief at all! He was/is making better $$ street racing than any of us guys that are traveling our butts off to try and get that Wally.

You bet your a$$ I'm always pulling for Pontiac powered cars!

I'm not sure how he qualified for in the Pro Mod division or what the best light he cut was figures into your question?
You asked if anybody had a car that would run 6.30's proven to be reliable enough to go 5 rounds. I believe his car did enough even running detuned/limited to meet that criteria.

I'm just saying based on that, I don't think it would be impossible to run Top Sportsman with a Pontiac, provided the car, driver, etc was up to par.

[S/st 54]

I'm not sure how he qualified for in the Pro Mod division or what the best light he cut was figures into your question?
You asked if anybody had a car that would run 6.30's proven to be reliable enough to go 5 rounds. I believe his car did enough even running detuned/limited to meet that criteria.

I'm just saying based on that, I don't think it would be impossible to run Top Sportsman with a Pontiac, provided the car, driver, etc was up to par.

Fair enough.