:( Things are going from bad to worse on this project. I test fitted the engine today, but the motor mounts don't line up. I don't know if I have mis-matched parts or the frame is bent. There is some evidence that the left side was hit in the past. There is some bending where the bumper attaches to the frame. I am at a loss as to how to proceed. The entire front end was removed by the person I bought the car from. He only bought the car for its engine, so there was no engine installed and I have no knowledge if the body panels aligned since they were loose and the shims were not even reinstalled.

In test fitting the engine I had to remove half of the AC box. There doesn't look like there is enough room to re-install it it so it looks like I will need to run an after market system. I don't think anyone makes a complete kit for the 68 so I guess it will be a custom system. :mad: Something else I didn't plan on.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/engine-test-1-web.jpg

This is how much the aligment is off. There is a bolt in the other side.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/engine-mount-1-web.jpg

I would measure the frame from all different points to see if it is bent or diamond shaped. To bend an engine crossmember is not to easy and I think you would see more damage to the frame. Are the bolt holes for the engine mount on the frame the same on both sides? There is alot of holes on my frame that are off. If you cannot find anything wrong, I can measure my frame mounts to see if they are different.

You might have to slot the top holes on both sides to make it fit. Edelbrock says to do this on the 64-67 but 68-72 might need to do this to.

While it wouldn't take much to make it fit, I worry that the frame might be bent. (Or wasn't repaired correctly in the past) I found a hole in one side of the frame that was elongated and a hole on the other side that had been pushed out. I believe chains may have been attached at these points and the frame straightened. There aren't many measurements in the service manual for the front part of the frame. The distance between the frame rails checks out good. The engine that was installed in the car was installed in the other set of holes on the frame. (3 bolts) Since original engine had already been removed, I don't know if there was a problem when the original engine was removed. I don't know if the set of holes I am using was drilled correctly since they had never been used. From the slight wrinkle in the frame at the steering box, my guess is that side of the car had been hit from the side and may have bent the cross member slightly. Since there was never a engine installed in the other holes, I don't know if the hole locations are off or if the frame is bent.

Some measurements of the distance between the holes from side to side would be really nice if someone could provide them. I have also been searching for the dimensions of the motor mounts the see if mine are too high/thick, since it also appears if the pre-load plate was not installed the engine would fit. I am using Tall frame stands from Goodmark, engine mounts from Energy Suspension and Edelbrock LS1 engine plates.

Top bolt holes-- at the top of the hole straight across is 19 1/4. Front and back holes are the same. I measured 2 frames and they are the same. This is for the holes that are oval on one side and round on the other. Those were the stock pontiac mount location.

Thanks for the measurement. My frame is also 19-1/4" as shown in the picture. Maybe my frame is OK and my motor mount problem is cumulative dimensional errors caused by using parts from three different companies.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/cross-1-web.jpg

Problem is solved. When I measured the Energy Suspension Motor Mounts, I found that one of the mounts was 3/32" taller than the other one. I put both of them in my press and applied a little pressure for a few seconds. Here is the result after reinstalling them.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/frame-2-web.jpg

I got a transmission filler tube today. I had tried a 2002 Camaro tube and found that the mounting bracket didn't come close to any of the holes on the LS3 cylinder head. This filler tube uses the bell house mount.

BTW the bell house in the photo is not correct for an LS3 engine. I am waiting for the correct tube from my transmission guy.

I have also given up on using the Autokraft oil pan. Although its fits in the car, it doesn't support the transmission bell house like a GM pan will. Almost half of the bell house would not be supported if using the Autokraft pan. I am ordering a Camaro oil pan modified by Street and Performance to fit an A-body.

This tube is a TeckPak K77999U it costs about $30 with shipping

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/dip1.jpg

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/dip2.jpg

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/dip3.jpg

I had some progress and some setbacks today. I got the transmission in place so I could deal with the cross member. I am using the stock cross member. I don't know if there are different cross members but this one has two humps and had a powerglide hanging from it. No modification to the cross member was necessary. I have an Energy Suspension transmission mount and it bolted right in. It does appear to be taller than the Pontiac mount so I'm not sure what that will do to the drive shaft angle. One of the holes in the frame lined up so I only had to drill one hole in the frame on each side.

Setbacks: When test fitting the radiator I found that I have two different radiator to core support brackets. One of brackets holds a radiator 2-3/4" thick and the other 3-1/2" thick. My radiator needs the larger one. Unfortunately I can't find a listing for the larger bracket in any of my restoration catalogs. Another problem is that my radiator has a 1-3/4" outlet for the lower hose instead of the usual 1-1/2". There are hoses that work well if your radiator has a 1-1/2" outlet, so far I have not found a molded hose that looks like it will work. I may be forced to use one of those flexible hoses.

I'm not sure that the fact that the bellhousing can't be bolted to the oil pan is really a big issue. It would be nice to be able to do that, but not entirely necessary for good engine to trans support.

Any of the older GM auto trans bellhousings just bolt to the block only and they hold up fine. The added beef of the 4L70E bellhousing is a plus already, it looks a lot like one of the later TH400 bellhousings with the added stiffening rib in that area.

I don't think you'll have any problems running the far-superior Autokraft pan versus the modified F-body pan that loses not only oil capacity but the factory windage tray from what I understand.

I'll be using the Autokraft pan, it should work fine in my opinion.

One question: Which flexplate did you end up using?

According to the latest GM Performance Parts catalog the GM part # 12602448 flexplate (now superseded by GM part # 12606620 according to gmpartsdirect.com) is the correct one to use for any non-Corvette automatic transmisson applications, since the C6 Corvette uses a torque tube driveline with the trans mounted at the rear.

Without a flywheel cover how would you keep junk from hitting the flywheel, rain, rocks etc. There is a large gap between the oil pan and the transmission. I will take some picture of it tomorrow. (or later today - its late here)

The flexpate I was sent was 12606620. I did order the other part number. I haven't installed it or the TC since I don't have the right bell housing. I just bolted the trans to the engine so I could deal with the crossmember. BTW I could not install the engine and trans as a single piece. The oil pan would not clear the crossmember or the engine hit the firewall. I had to installt the transmission from under the engine after bolting the engine in place. Maybe with a helper it would have been possible to install the engine/trans as a single unit but I was unable to get enough tilt without hitting something.

Here are pictures showing the gap between the transmission and oil pan. Note the TC would be clearly visible if it had been installed.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/trans1.jpg

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/trans2.jpg

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/trans3.jpg

I would think that is too big of a gap to just leave open. opinions anyone?


Other developments: My Pontiac Wheel Vintiques 16" wheels are apparently not going to be built any time soon. WV told Summit today, that they were not even planning to make any for at least 4 months. Since these were ordered in October I have to believe that they are only going to make a run when they get enough orders and since the delivery date keeps slipping, more and more people must be canceling their order. Which is what I am about to do as soon as I find something else to use.

Here's a pic that I just snapped from underneath the passenger side of my 2002 WS6 Trans Am, it has the LS1 of course and a 4L60E trans:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/DSC02511.jpg

You can see that there is an 'L' shaped piece of plastic shielding bolted to the bellhousing and to the side of the pan to keep road debris out of the torque converter cavity, so it appears that the factory used one shield on each side of the pan to close off the opening.

It wouldn't be too hard to fabricate a flat shield out of sheetmetal to cover the opening, similar to the sheetmetal or plastic shield used on the older automatic transmissions. The oil pan is part of the shielding when using the LSX stock pan, with the Autokraft pan you'll use a flat one-piece shield instead.

Another thing to put on my list of things to do or to fab up for the swap.:usa2:

Question on your TeckPak K77999U transmission dipstick and tube: If you happen to know, what specific factory application is that setup listed for, which car model/year?

TeckPak K77999U transmission dipstick and tube is listed as a generic part for no specific make and model. It looks like there is plenty of room for it to fit in my 68.

I thought I would post some of the mock up pictures.

Dipstick - had to grind a little on the bracket to clear the headers
http://peripheraltech.com/gto/Picture 152-web.jpg

Radiator - Top plate is from a 69 Chevelle (Not a Bolt in part)

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/Picture 157-web.jpg

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/Picture 162-web.jpg

Problem - I don't think there is enough clearance. I will need to install my Delphi 600 box and new shaft to tell for sure.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/Picture 161-web.jpg

Shot showing the AC bracket. Compressor should arrive soon.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/Picture 160-web.jpg

Lots of little issues have slowed my project. I was unable to get transmission cooler lines installed. There is not enough clearance for a 90 degree bend of hard line at the transmission. I had to remove transmission and install 90 degree fittings at the transmission; I also had a hard time bending lines to fit in the available space. I am routing the lines like a LT1 94-96 B-body. The lines run from the transmission along the bottom of the engine and have a short piece of rubber from the front of the engine to the radiator.

Another problem is the belt listed by Kwik for their AC relocation bracket is too short. I have ordered the next longest size but I think it may be too long. I may need to change the size of some of the pulleys to get this to work. B-Man take notice, I think you are using the same parts I am.

On a positive note I did reinstall the transmission/engine and measure the drive shaft. A local shop shortened my existing drive shaft for $30 (No balance). I am only intending to use the old driveshaft/rear-end until I order a new rear-end. I will probably order a Moser rear-end, although I have not fully decided. My plans are to work out the problems with swapping the engine/transmission then removing everything and do a full restoration including removing the body from the frame. The time frame for putting the car back together would probably be next winter at which point I will deal with selecting and installing a new rear-end/drive shaft. If any of you have comments or suggestions about the choice of a rear-end I am all ears. I have never had to pick a rear-end before. Among the B-body group, Denny's drive shafts were a popular choice, I assume their drive shafts would also be a good choice for an A-body.

Rear end
 

The rear end I'm planning to go with is a '71 -'72 Buick/Olds A-body 8.5" corporate 10 bolt. This would be a direct bolt-in on your car as well, the rear U-joint is a little different than the one that came stock on our cars if I'm not mistaken.

These have the tapered axle bearings that are said to handle side loads better along with a true heavy-duty axle. They are 28-spline axles that are bolt-in style instead of C-clips like most GM 8.5" corporate 10-bolts. The factory posi units are fine as long as you're not drag racing the car with any kind of traction tire. These 8.5" rear ends are nearly as strong as a 12-bolt 8.875" rear and share the same pinion bearing.

I'll upgrade my 8.5" rear end to a new 30-spline Eaton posi unit and new Moser axles. Part of the reason being I need to change the bolt pattern on my axles to 5 on 120mm to match up with my BMW-spec aftermarket wheels, so new axles are the easiest way to accomplish that.

The stock GM intermediate pattern is 5 on 4.75" (5 on 120.65mm) so there's not a lot of difference between the two, but I want things done right. Upgrading the axles and posi unit isn't a bad idea no matter what, just more $$. This way I can beat on it and not worry as much.

Spend it only once and do it right whenever you can.;)

How much clearance should I have between the headers and the steering shaft? I only have about 3/16". I would think 1/4" would be the minimum. I would really hate to have something shift around and lock up the steering. That would make for a really bad day. :( I guess the best way to gain additional clearance would be to put a dent in the header tube with a press.

http://peripheraltech.com/gto/Picture%20161-web.jpg

That might be okay, I'd play that by ear.

You have plenty of room. No need whatsoever to modify your header tube.

I have about 3/16" between my headers (H-O Racing Tri-Ys with 1-3/4" primary tubes) and the steering shaft on my '64 GTO. I tried to put the end of a 1/4" thick wooden yardstick between the shaft and the header tube and it wouldn't fit in there.

Exhaust heat will not adversely affect the steering shaft, the Ditzler 9000 black acrylic enamel on mine is still doing fine after 10 years in the staging lanes and 2 years on the street.

My GTO has stock rubber motor mounts and a chain to limit engine movememnt. Engine torque will make the engine move away from the steering shaft.

I'll be installing a new set of Energy Suspension poly motor mounts when I drop the LS3 in my '64 Tempest, they should do a good job of limiting engine movement all by themselves. Hopefully I'll have as much clearance as you do in that spot.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/DSC02668.jpg