Along with a general decline in car sales in June, the GTO sales slipped to 598 units. That's the lowest since January, when sales were just ramping up. My estimate is about 6900 units for the first year.

If the sales are less than 7000 that must be considered something of a disaster. That would be less than 40% of the original sales expectation of about 18,000.

That compares very poorly with the sales of the 1964 GTO, which had 32,450 even though it was essentially the same as the Tempest.

DanZ

Along with a general decline in car sales in June, the GTO sales slipped to 598 units. That's the lowest since January, when sales were just ramping up. My estimate is about 6900 units for the first year.

If the sales are less than 7000 that must be considered something of a disaster. That would be less than 40% of the original sales expectation of about 18,000.

That compares very poorly with the sales of the 1964 GTO, which had 32,450 even though it was essentially the same as the Tempest.

DanZ

So, bar all of the opinions stated on this site to date, even Pontiac has to face the fact that this warmed over Monero is definately a big failure. That is what some of us "Purist" were afraid of, and it has happened. Basterdizing the GTO name has become reality....what an embarassment. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
So, bar all of the opinions stated on this site to date, even Pontiac has to face the fact that this warmed over Monero is definately a big failure. That is what some of us "Purist" were afraid of, and it has happened. Basterdizing the GTO name has become reality....what an embarassment. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are just a bunch of out of date old farts that can't accept that these are new times, and are stuck in the past. It's looks like the experience of age vs. the impetuance of youth. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif

GTO sales went up for 2 years after introduction and then went down basically for the remainder of it's life.

Not to mention that GTO THEN didn't have to compete with foreign cars that were in all intense and purpose competitors. GTO today has to. Simple facts.

Will the '05 be better? Yup. Will sales increase? Yup. With word that the '05 will have 400hp and more options, are people waiting for better deals on leftover '04s? Yup.

It is all relative.

i'll echo Mr_GTO . let's see. in 1964 there were three (four if you want to count Rambler) car companies and pretty much no choices in HiPo cars. today there are... heck i don't even know because there are too many choices. having lived thru it i also know that the 60's were full of national fads. remember a fad called the beatles? there have been many great bands since then but never a phenomenom like them since. (don't give me an argument "what if they tried to bring back the beatles." they were people not cars) there are too many genres and choices in music now. the times made the ledgend of the GTO as much or more so than the car. "That compares very poorly with the sales of the 1964 GTO, which had 32,450 even though it was essentially the same as the Tempest. " that statement kind of comfirms that doesn't it? the '64 also needed those numbers to continue. the '04 does not. "That is what some of us "Purist" were afraid of, and it has happened." PURISTS? i think old farts is a better term. maybe you have your AM radio turned up too loud to hear that times have changed. most of these types of statements on this board have been uttered with glee and hoped for since the car was announced. i have too much respect to go to your section and trash your car. apparently you don't even tho i wish this site catered more toward the '04 enthusiest than the elitest, 'royal blood' menatlistly that seems to prevail here. "Basterdizing the GTO name " &lt;sigh&gt;(by the way it's bastardizing). did you spout that gibberish when they made those P.O.S in the 70's? that my friend was bastardization not this baby. i'll bet you didn't because you actually think there is some sort of bloodline. what a joke. don't worry your baby will always have its niche in history right there with the beatles and your lost youth. i only think about those kind of things when i read this stuff and i have to shake my head. most of the time i have my nickleback cd cranked up too loud to hear your echos of the past. maybe you ought to rethink your motivation for this continued hoping beyond hope that this car will fail... or maybe you ought to go out and give an '04 a spin... and get a little young at heart again.

Face it guy's, young vs old or not, the '04 Monero is a cosmetic failure... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

Coming this fall, the latest Mustang design is meant, in the words of J Mays, Ford's vice president for design, "to look like it's going to kick your ass."

http://i.cnn.net/money/pf/features/p...05_mustang.jpg

I guess Ford listens to "Old Farts"..maybe that's why they outsell Pontiacs..... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

have its niche in history right there with the beatles and your lost youth

Svede, whoever you are, it's strange that the beatles music still survives today, just like the old GTO's. Do you really think that the '04 whatever will be remembered in the same way....don't think so.... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

PS: Thank you for the correct spelling Mr Misus.. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by svede1212:
i'll echo Mr_GTO . let's see. in 1964 there were three (four if you want to count Rambler) car companies and pretty much no choices in HiPo cars. today there are... heck i don't even know because there are too many choices. having lived thru it i also know that the 60's were full of national fads. remember a fad called the beatles? there have been many great bands since then but never a phenomenom like them since. (don't give me an argument "what if they tried to bring back the beatles." they were people not cars) there are too many genres and choices in music now. the times made the ledgend of the GTO as much or more so than the car. "That compares very poorly with the sales of the 1964 GTO, which had 32,450 _even though it was essentially the same as the Tempest_. " that statement kind of comfirms that doesn't it? the '64 also needed those numbers to continue. the '04 does not. "That is what some of us "Purist" were afraid of, and it has happened." PURISTS? i think old farts is a better term. maybe you have your AM radio turned up too loud to hear that times have changed. most of these types of statements on this board have been uttered with glee and hoped for since the car was announced. i have too much respect to go to your section and trash your car. apparently you don't even tho i wish this site catered more toward the '04 enthusiest than the elitest, 'royal blood' menatlistly that seems to prevail here. "Basterdizing the GTO name " &lt;sigh&gt;(by the way it's bastardizing). did you spout that gibberish when they made those P.O.S in the 70's? that my friend was bastardization not this baby. i'll bet you didn't because you actually think there is some sort of bloodline. what a joke. don't worry your baby will always have its niche in history right there with the beatles and your lost youth. i only think about those kind of things when i read this stuff and i have to shake my head. most of the time i have my nickleback cd cranked up too loud to hear your echos of the past. maybe you ought to rethink your motivation for this continued hoping beyond hope that this car will fail... or maybe you ought to go out and give an '04 a spin... and get a little young at heart again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Having lived through the 60's, your old age is catching up with you. You forgot European imports. You also need to bone up on your automotive history about high performance cars of the late 50's and early 60's. (Mr_GTO will probably want a list). As far as the Beatles; (Not that big of a fan), being a fad, since when do fads last 8(?) years? I've worked hard, and lived through much, and am proud of my old fart status. I don't need to crank up Nickleback, or anyone else to try and keep up with the times. It also gives me the right not to accept someone else's version of a reborn legend http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif, which an Austrailian car with chevy parts badged "Pontiac GTO" most certainly is not. Believe me, I don't need this import, Nickleback, Puddle of Mud, (or any new group), or a toupe as any precieved crutch to keep me young at heart http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

I don't need this import, Nickleback, Puddle of Mud, (or any new group), or a toupe as any precieved crutch to keep me young at heart

How about a KIA and some 9" Nails? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
I guess Ford listens to "Old Farts"..maybe that's why they outsell Pontiacs..... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pontiac never built a GTO without a 350 V8 or larger.

Most Mustang's never had a V8 from the factory and most of the V8's were smaller than anything that ever went between the front wheels of a GTO.

You're comparing apples and oranges here Danny.

This "old fart purist" vs. "sweet fart new age yuppy" argument is gettng real old real fast. The fact is, Pontiac designed the new GTO to visually appeal to an upscale purchaser of performance imports, and at the same time equipped and badged it to appeal to the old school muscle car enthusiast. Projected sales volumes aren't being covered. Does Pontiac drop the GTO moniker, and steer the platform towards the yuppy, or do they move in a more retro direction with the styling and keep the GTO name hoping that the "purists" will step up in larger numbers? Driving down the middle of the road gets you into serious trouble sooner or later. Pontiac's biggest challenge will be to reach a suitable compromise between the two camps, or offer a choice.

Did anyone read the latest AutoWeek, the "Star Spangled Special", "America's Best" issue? The people have spoken and America's Best Coupe is the Infinity G35, followed by the BMW 6 Series and the BMW 3 Series. Speaks volumes of the AutoWeek readership. This is what Pontiac is up against. The import bias of the American automotive press has so twisted the American car buying public's taste, perception, and purchasing habits that an excellent offering from a domestic automaker (the GTO) isn't even on the poll responder's radar screen.

[BPontiac designed the new GTO to visually appeal to an upscale purchaser of performance imports, and at the same time equipped and badged it to appeal to the old school muscle car enthusiast. [/B]

Gtoric, I guess that they failed on both fronts looking at the crappie sales that they have posted. This is one of the points, Pontiac has no concrete direction and is trying to find anything that will sell their cars, including reaching for the past.

It is not our fault that this car has failed. We a just a minute fraction of the populus. Evidently, through the USA this car is not appealing, face it... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
[BPontiac designed the new GTO to visually appeal to an upscale purchaser of performance imports, and at the same time equipped and badged it to appeal to the old school muscle car enthusiast. [/B]

Gtoric, I guess that they failed on both fronts looking at the crappie sales that they have posted. This is one of the points, Pontiac has no concrete direction and is trying to find anything that will sell their cars, including reaching for the past.

It is not our fault that this car has failed. We a just a minute fraction of the populus. Evidently, through the USA this car is not appealing, face it... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, you must be really old and set in your ways
to keeping pounding away at the sales of this car. You've made your point several times. Move on. Time is passing you by. Styles change.
You won't see that OLD GTO look again. It is old. Put the old GTO and the new GTO side by
side, in today's world, who would win styling.
Oldy would be history. Hey, I like the old
GTO's too, but enough with the 04 styling bashing already. Your old school, don't like it, ok you've made your point. Styling may
have kept some people away, just like any car.
People don't even know is car is out for crying out loud. I've heard in droves "When did they
bring the GTO back", and whose fault is that.
Pontiac. On the other hand, they only were gonna make 18000, that's nothing in todays sales.

On the other hand, they only were gonna make 18000, that's nothing in todays sales.

And only selling 9000 out of those 18000, what about that? In a corner, huh? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Danny, sales forcasts were dropped down after they lost 2000 units at the beginning of the year.

For those that missed the GTO vs CLK comparo in MT, you should read it. There were 3 letters to MT about how people would rather own 2 GTO's to a CLK MB. I know how Misus likes that MB quality, he should check out a new GTO. They are nice riding cars.

Shouldn't have any trouble getting one.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
_On the other hand, they only were gonna make 18000, that's nothing in todays sales._

And only selling 9000 out of those 18000, what about that? In a corner, huh? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at sales cars sales across the board.
They are not exactly setting sales records. This along with poor marketing has been the
factors. You can talk all you want about style
and why you think that is the reason, but your
only fooling yourself. Hey, isn't that a song?
No corners here sir, but my 04 goat sure can take um alot better than your old goat. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

"The fact is, Pontiac designed the new GTO to visually appeal to an upscale purchaser of performance imports, and at the same time equipped and badged it to appeal to the old school muscle car enthusiast."
-----------------------------------------------

HUH!!!??? Sorry, but your facts are imaginary. Pontiac didnt design diddly squat on this car. Its an existing design imported and re-badged, in a blatant attempt to squeeze a few more bucks from a classic old name. Period. Im sure the Monaro is a fine car. But it aint a GTO.
As for appealing to the old school musclecar crowd, dont make me laugh. I happen to be a part of the old school musclecar crowd, and I know a fair number of others that qualify for that title. See, if it did appeal to the old schoolers, we would buy one. Cause were older, and most of us have the funds to afford one. But as the sales figures show, the market for the car in its current form just isnt there.
And given GM's talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, Im not optimistic about its future.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
But it aint a GTO.
As for appealing to the old school musclecar crowd, dont make me laugh. I happen to be a part of the old school musclecar crowd, and I know a fair number of others that qualify for that title. See, if it did appeal to the old schoolers, we would buy one, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just cause it's not a GTO to you means nothing.
It is indeed a GTO more than ever. As far as a few old coggers shelling out the money, that wouldn't even put a dent in more sales. The fact is people don't even know this car exists.
Pontiac totally blew marketing of this car. Don't flatter yourselves. Just cause the old timers don't like don't mean squat in sales.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:

As for appealing to the old school musclecar crowd, dont make me laugh. I happen to be a part of the old school musclecar crowd, and I know a fair number of others that qualify for that title. See, if it did appeal to the old schoolers, we would buy one. Cause were older, and most of us have the funds to afford one. But as the sales figures show, the market for the car in its current form just isnt there.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I happen to be one of the old school Muscle Car crowd, I've owned my '64 for 12 years, and my Dad was selling them new when they first came out (wanna see my Dad's 1964 Pontiac Dealers Sales Manual?).

I have driven the new GTO, and it is a fantastic car. It has more power, better handling, and more creature comforts than any GTO ever built.

I haven't purchased one because I already own 5 vehicles (two daily drivers which do not need replacing at this time and the three listed below which aren't for sale).

Besides, I guess I'm more interested in the '05 after learning months ago that it would have a few of the styling cues that have been discussed and the 6.0 liter, 400 HP, LS2.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that might be waiting for an '05...

And gtoric knows more about the GTO (old or new) than you can imagine.

No corners here sir, but my 04 goat sure can take um alot better than your old goat

Yellow Jacket, you are absolutely correct, but mine will get to the corner faster...I'll wait for you... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
_No corners here sir, but my 04 goat sure can take um alot better than your old goat_

Yellow Jacket, you are absolutely correct, but mine will get to the corner faster...I'll wait for you... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not if it's stock you won't. If it's not then
let me do the same mods and we'll see. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Maybe pontiac could please old and young.The 400 horse should please both. Maybe a new wing on the back Like a 70 wing for the old and for the young crowd maybe a superbird wing bolted on top of the 70 wing. The duel out each side of the rear should please the old and add a giant fart can at the end for the young.Add some type of hood scoop for each group. Maybe a twin scoop for the old guys and a great big scoop on the roof for the young guys. I'm not sure how much horsepower you gain from a roof scoop but I've seen a few so it must do something,maybe torque? The ride height will do for the old but the young guys need all susp. travel removed with 20'' wheels and solid rubber tires to get the right amount of bounce over bumps.And it has to have stickers. A holley and hijacker sticker is a must for old gtoer. The young guys must have a nos sticker along with any other sticker they find laying around.The interior needs a little work to appeal to both crowds. Maybe a 8 track player mounted on the console for the old guys.That would be a big promotional thing also. It would be the only car in the world to come standard with one and since the young kids wouldn't know what it is all the youngsters would have to have one and since the gto is the only car to have one,sales would go out the roof.Maybe I have solved all of the gtos sales problems. Anyways back to the interior standard guages should be fine for the old eventhough I did see one old guy with a 11 grand monster tach on a 455 where 0 -5000 is about a inch and a half sweep and 5 -11 is 6 inches.For the young guys it must have pillar guages.The good news pontiac doesn't have to make them work they just need to light up. It also needs a shoulder pad on the seatbelt with the simpson logo,that would please young and old.Maybe a multi colored dome light. The old guys could pick a color easy on their eyes and it would save the kids from having to put in neon. I don't see why pontiac can't make this car appeal to all groups of people.It should be a huge success.I can't wait to see the finished product.

You forgot one thing. Lets pull off all the Pontiac and GTO emblams, and replace them with lets say........... Monaro!

I think we should pull off the old GTO emblems and replace them with Tempest.

Another day same argument, yaawn...

Nope. Pry the GTO tags off, slap some Chevelle emblems on it and they will sell like hot cakes. Those Chevy guys will buy anything.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:
HUH!!!??? Sorry, but your facts are imaginary. Pontiac didnt design diddly squat on this car. Its an existing design imported and re-badged, in a blatant attempt to squeeze a few more bucks from a classic old name. Period. Im sure the Monaro is a fine car. But it aint a GTO.
As for appealing to the old school musclecar crowd, dont make me laugh. I happen to be a part of the old school musclecar crowd, and I know a fair number of others that qualify for that title. See, if it did appeal to the old schoolers, we would buy one. Cause were older, and most of us have the funds to afford one. But as the sales figures show, the market for the car in its current form just isnt there.
And given GM's talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, Im not optimistic about its future. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't fool yourself Tom, Pontiac had a lot to say about how this new GTO would look or wouldn't look. It's my contention that the compromises that were arrived at, design-wise, made for an unsatisfactory offering on many fronts and to many different socio-economic groups. And you're right when you say that the sales figures reflect that unsatisfied market.
I count myself as a member of the "old school muscle car crowd" also, and I'm not laughing. This new GTO is one heck of a car! My '67 Goat doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with this new car in a straight line or on a twisty circuit. The advances in automotive packaging and performance in the last 40 years are stunning. I'd have a new Goat parked in my garage today if I had a garage. My current curcumstances don't allow for a new car, but if they did, that new car would be an '04, 6-sp, GTO! Like it or not, this Monaro-based car IS the new GTO, and as far as I'm concerned, it may not have the looks yet, but it sure has the balls to be called that honored name.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gtoric:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:
HUH!!!??? Sorry, but your facts are imaginary. Pontiac didnt design diddly squat on this car. Its an existing design imported and re-badged, in a blatant attempt to squeeze a few more bucks from a classic old name. Period. Im sure the Monaro is a fine car. But it aint a GTO.
As for appealing to the old school musclecar crowd, dont make me laugh. I happen to be a part of the old school musclecar crowd, and I know a fair number of others that qualify for that title. See, if it did appeal to the old schoolers, we would buy one. Cause were older, and most of us have the funds to afford one. But as the sales figures show, the market for the car in its current form just isnt there.
And given GM's talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, Im not optimistic about its future. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't fool yourself Tom, Pontiac had a lot to say about how this new GTO would look or wouldn't look. It's my contention that the compromises that were arrived at, design-wise, made for an unsatisfactory offering on many fronts and to many different socio-economic groups. And you're right when you say that the sales figures reflect that unsatisfied market.
I count myself as a member of the "old school muscle car crowd" also, and I'm not laughing. This new GTO is one heck of a car! My '67 Goat doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with this new car in a straight line or on a twisty circuit. The advances in automotive packaging and performance in the last 40 years are stunning. I'd have a new Goat parked in my garage today if I had a garage. My current curcumstances don't allow for a new car, but if they did, that new car would be an '04, 6-sp, GTO! Like it or not, this Monaro-based car IS the new GTO, and as far as I'm concerned, it may not have the looks yet, but it sure has the balls to be called that honored name. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto...

I'll just wait for those amazing 0 down/0 interest/$3k cash back offers to start racking up on the 04's about the time the 05's are rolling out. Or maybe I'll just wait for an '05. Either way, it's a win-win for those of us who want the least expensive, most powerful RWD performance coupe that's not based on a FWD economy car available in North America. (Counting the days)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellow Jacket:
I think we should pull off the old GTO emblems and replace them with Tempest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least the Tempest wasn't an import http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

Yellow Jacket, Not if it's stock you won't. If it's not then...

It's not, and being an "old fart", I don't have the time for you young whippersnappers to upgrade.... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
_Yellow Jacket, Not if it's stock you won't. If it's not then..._

It's not, and being an "old fart", I don't have the time for you young whippersnappers to upgrade.... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you forgotten about this 2004 GTO???

You're memory is going to pot, Danny, you old fart...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KVman389:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellow Jacket:
I think we should pull off the old GTO emblems and replace them with Tempest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least the Tempest wasn't an import http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, now we get to the route of your problem with
these cars. Imports.

"This new GTO is one heck of a car! My '67 Goat doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with this new car in a straight line or on a twisty circuit."

gtoric, trust me when I tell you that my classic 70 GTO has the Monaro covered in every aspect of performance in spades.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:
"This new GTO is one heck of a car! My '67 Goat doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with this new car in a straight line or on a twisty circuit."

gtoric, trust me when I tell you that my classic 70 GTO has the Monaro covered in every aspect of performance in spades. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, not if your car is stock. Otherwise,
I'll slap a Magnacharger on with 125 shot of
NOS just for kicks.

And you would still loose.

Magnacharger+NO2+04GTO=lots of IRS pieces on the ground http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif. Just ask the Cobra boys. You don't really think those toothpicks they call axles will hold up do ya. At least when it does go boom you won't have to worry about puting a hole in the gas tank http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Also if we are to compare apples to apples the badges on my 68 GTO are much nicer. Thats the only thing they really have in common http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_razz.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:
"This new GTO is one heck of a car! My '67 Goat doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with this new car in a straight line or on a twisty circuit."

gtoric, trust me when I tell you that my classic 70 GTO has the Monaro covered in every aspect of performance in spades. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What is the performance data on your car? I haven't seen it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:
And you would still loose. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If, and I repeat, if that is true, than what you have has no functional resemblance to what a factory '70 GTO was.

So why are you trying to compare it to a factory GTO?

I know gtoric's car. It is a wonderful stock '67 GTO convertible that anyone would be proud to own.

If your 70 will out accelerate a new GTO with a Magnacharger and a 125 shot of NOS and out corner it too you have one heckuva car.

How often do you drive this monster on the street? Do you go on 200+ mile cruises with it?

I do with my '64 GTO and many of the rest of us do.

That new GTO will out accelerate and out corner mine - that's a fact. It would also use half the gas and be alot more comfortable.

Like gtoric mentioned, I'd have one of the 2004 GTO's in my garage except I only have a 3 car garage and I ain't selling any of my 5 current vehicles anytime soon.

Now after I get my second garage built...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellow Jacket:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KVman389:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellow Jacket:
I think we should pull off the old GTO emblems and replace them with Tempest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least the Tempest wasn't an import http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, now we get to the route of your problem with
these cars. Imports. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is no secret here that yes, this car is an import, and that is my argument with it. You obviously like to pick on Tempests. At least Pontiac Started with a Pontiac platform, upgraded with a Pontiac motor, and continued to call it a Pontiac. This time around, GM went overseas for the platform. Pontiac had nothing to place under the hood, So they put a chevy engine in it. Evidently in some peoples minds, Monaro+Chevy=Pontiac http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif. Just for the record, I've never belittled this cars performance, just it's heritage.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KVman389:
It is no secret here that yes, this car is an import, and that is my argument with it. You obviously like to pick on Tempests. At least Pontiac Started with a Pontiac platform, upgraded with a Pontiac motor, and continued to call it a Pontiac. This time around, GM went overseas for the platform. Pontiac had nothing to place under the hood, So they put a chevy engine in it. Evidently in some peoples minds, Monaro+Chevy=Pontiac http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif. Just for the record, I've never belittled this cars performance, just it's heritage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. It ain't 1964 anymore. Get over it. GM is a GLOBAL company.
2. Pontiac, nor Chevy, nor Caddy make engines anymore. GM Powertrain is responsible for engine development.
3. '64 GTO took it's "HERITAGE" from a racing series that no old GTO ever took part in and it basically belittled the Ferrari GTO that did race. The new GTO takes it's name off the old Pontiac GTO and the new one is actually raced competivly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mo:
Magnacharger+NO2+04GTO=lots of IRS pieces on the ground http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif. Just ask the Cobra boys. You don't really think those toothpicks they call axles will hold up do ya. At least when it does go boom you won't have to worry about puting a hole in the gas tank http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Also if we are to compare apples to apples the badges on my 68 GTO are much nicer. Thats the only thing they really have in common http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, like you would do those mods and not upgrade your driveline etc. As far as the badges being nicer. That is purely your opinion. Doesn't make it right or wrong.

I don't like to pick on Tempests, although,
come on, look at um, they scream BORING!
I just take exception to your attacks on the
04 GTO. As far as heritage, you might want to
see where GTO actually came from. We'll just have to agree to disagree. It's cool. That's what makes the world go around dude!

The Holden is as good as anything else GM currently sells.
Mr_GTO, theres a reason you havent seen the specs on my car. But I will give you a taste. Power to weight in the 5 pounds/HP range (without a power adder). And there is a power adder on the car. Nearly 50/50 weight distribution (within a few percent) with 275 front tires and 345 rears (18"). The rest of the car follows this basic theme. I guess its referred to as a pro-touring car. And 2, 3, 400 mile jaunts wont be a problem. It will cruise at 85 only turning 2300 rpm (5 speed with OD), playing whatever CD you feel like listening to. And I can gas it up anyplace that sells 91 premium pump.
You guys like to play a one sided game. The Holden benefits from 30 years of technological advancement, and anytime we try to apply any of this technology to our classics you whine about originality. Screw that.
In case you have forgotten (or like the younger ones here, are just learning), hot rods are modified vehicles. The modifications are to make improvements, as the technology becomes available. Whine all you want, and play make believe about blowers and NOS if that makes you feel better. But I deal in reality, and the reality is the old cars with the new technology have big advantages over the new stuff. But you have to build those yourself, and few have the talent or patience. Anybody can get into a no money down, 7 years to pay deal. Anybody.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellow Jacket:
I don't like to pick on Tempests, although,
come on, look at um, they scream BORING!
I just take exception to your attacks on the
04 GTO. As far as heritage, you might want to
see where GTO actually came from. We'll just have to agree to disagree. It's cool. That's what makes the world go around dude! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll agree to agree to disagree, and yes I know the letters g t o are not a Pontiac original. As I've stated before, those who do-do, and those who don't-don't. That also helps the world go around. Take care, and have a good day.

I don't like to pick on Tempests, although, boring

Same can be said for the Holden....it's a matter of taste, or in some cases, lack of it... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KVman389:
It is no secret here that yes, this car is an import, and that is my argument with it. You obviously like to pick on Tempests. At least Pontiac Started with a Pontiac platform, upgraded with a Pontiac motor, and continued to call it a Pontiac. This time around, GM went overseas for the platform. Pontiac had nothing to place under the hood, So they put a chevy engine in it. Evidently in some peoples minds, Monaro+Chevy=Pontiac http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif. Just for the record, I've never belittled this cars performance, just it's heritage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geez, wake up! The Trans Am has used the same engine as the Camaro for at least 15 years, and probably longer than that; and at one point was available with the Buick 3.8 liter turbo v6. The f-bodies are produced in Canada, not the United States, so they're imports, too. If you want a car built in America, go buy a BMW 3-series, they're made in Georgia; or a Honda Civic, they're made in Ohio; or a Toyota Camry, they're made in California.

some here just embarrass themselves with their logic... or in some cases, lack of it... :P

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stonebreaker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KVman389:
It is no secret here that yes, this car is an import, and that is my argument with it. You obviously like to pick on Tempests. At least Pontiac Started with a Pontiac platform, upgraded with a Pontiac motor, and continued to call it a Pontiac. This time around, GM went overseas for the platform. Pontiac had nothing to place under the hood, So they put a chevy engine in it. Evidently in some peoples minds, Monaro+Chevy=Pontiac http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif. Just for the record, I've never belittled this cars performance, just it's heritage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geez, wake up! The Trans Am has used the same engine as the Camaro for at least 15 years, and probably longer than that; and at one point was available with the Buick 3.8 liter turbo v6. The f-bodies are produced in Canada, not the United States, so they're imports, too. If you want a car built in America, go buy a BMW 3-series, they're made in Georgia; or a Honda Civic, they're made in Ohio; or a Toyota Camry, they're made in California. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wake up yourself, and read the posts. Who said anything about T/A's? The emdarrassment here is the lack of reading comprehension coupled with a disregard of other peoples opinion. By the way, your forgot to mention Mercedes in Tennessee.