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Although due to funds, I prefer (for now) to stay with my 14 inch wheels.
I have it narrowed down to four companies Stainless Steel Brakes $925.00, works with 14” wheels Performance Years: $895.00, works with 14” wheels Master Power Brakes: $850.00 but requires 15" wheels Hotchkis Performance: $1297.00, don’t know what size wheel it requires but tubular A-Arms included Suggestions appreciated of my smartest options. I’ve read most all the posted issues on disk conversions. Lastly, what’s the story on tall spindles? What do they do? I just want to keep my GTO level and a little higher off the ground since it seems to sag low. Thanks in advance Jimmy 67 GTO, Auto, 400 |
Although due to funds, I prefer (for now) to stay with my 14 inch wheels.
I have it narrowed down to four companies Stainless Steel Brakes $925.00, works with 14” wheels Performance Years: $895.00, works with 14” wheels Master Power Brakes: $850.00 but requires 15" wheels Hotchkis Performance: $1297.00, don’t know what size wheel it requires but tubular A-Arms included Suggestions appreciated of my smartest options. I’ve read most all the posted issues on disk conversions. Lastly, what’s the story on tall spindles? What do they do? I just want to keep my GTO level and a little higher off the ground since it seems to sag low. Thanks in advance Jimmy 67 GTO, Auto, 400 |
Tall spindles give a better front end geometry, better handling, and tire wear. There are some issues concerning 14" wheels, but looks like you have that covered. If you are going to alter the stock ride height, tubular upper A-arms may be needed to get the alignment dialed in.
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I went with Stainless Steel Brake Corp. on my '64. Easy to install and they work great.
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I went with SSBC also to keep my 14" wheels. Parts were great, customer service was so-so.
I did it well before PY or any of the "newer" vendors carried the kits however... |
My64GTO
SSBC may be my 1st choice, bummer though about "So-So customer service. I'm still trying to find out if tall spindles lower the front end. Certainly don't want this!! Thanks Jim |
I bought my kit from PY and it hasn't gone well at all! I found out that I am the first guy to buy a kit for a Pontiac and as they are finding out from me, that Chvelles and GTO/Lemans are not the same! I have been working with them on straightening out the bugs, but sure has taken alot of time! I bought the kit because it claims to work with 14" wheels, but it does not. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif I had to sent several parts back to them to get correct parts, and the caliper brakets still hit the wheels. I'm still waiting on the brake line that goes from the P-valve to the rear brake line. I've talked with several guys that have used other brake manufactures and they have had issues with each kit they bought. So be prepared to make lots of phone calls! The Right Stuff, which is the PY kit, does have great customer service, I'll give them that! So to rain on your parade, go to 15" wheels as well! You will end up there anyways.
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RetroJoe,
This is the feedback I definitely need. Are these problems recent from PY? I thought they have been selling these kits for years and by now have the kinks worked out. That sucks if they are using you as their guinea pig. I could go with 15” wheels but clearance concerns me. Thanks for your input and keep us posted. It is info like this that forces a company to do better....or go under. I'm glad they have the customer service right. Jim |
Jim, I bought this kit from PY back in November of '03. As of now, I think I'm still the only person that has bought one from PY. Working with the Right Stuff(the company that makes the kit) has been good, it just stinks that the bugs are not worked out yet. They didn't have any instructions with the kit at the time I bought it, and they finally finished a dvd/cd rom for it. They sent me one at my request, but I have the kit already installed. They do need a guide to help whomever buys one of their kits to help with the install. Any time I've called and talked with Doug, I have received first class service. Some of the issues that I had with my kit was, the dust caps were wrong,the rear brakelines wouldn't go on,the line that goes from the P-valve to the rear lines was wrong, the caliper brackets were not quite right. They have replaced everything which was nice and they did it in a timely manner. I am going to try to see if I can get the caliper brackets to clear the wheels. They rub in a couple of spots. As for going with 15" wheels, you won't have any problems with clearance. I have talked with Mike Champion on this board, and he has been a wealth of info on tire size. He gave me a list of tire sizes that are th same size as the 14" tire size that go on my car. So even though I have 15" wheels, the tire height is still the same that it should be. Does that make any sense to you. Good luck, and feel free to contact me if you have any other questions on the kit. Joe.
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Joe,
I understand completely about the tires and 15” rims, just sounds like the tires I were to buy for the 15’s would be a low profile tire, which would work for me. I guess I’ll do this right and purchase four 15” rims. Oh well, there goes another $1000.00 not to include tires. I think I’ll stay away from PY and focus on Stainless Steel Brakes, Master Power Brakes, and possible Baer Brakes Systems that another mentioned in this thread. Jim |
Jimib,
The spindles that came with the kit didn't lower my front end at all. The only other mod I had to make was to go from 14x6 rims to 14x7 rims to accomodate the calipers. I did have a problem with the passenger side caliper bracket, it was either stamped or bent incorrectly and wouldn't fit. I called them up and they sent me a new one, but not before charging my credit card $80 for the replacement. They did credit me $80 back when they received the defective one, but I had to call twice to have it removed from my credit card. they said they couldn't find the package. (Always send UPS!) That kind of pissed me off. Did they really think I was going to jipp them $80 after spending $1K on the kit? Also when talking to tech support, the tone I got from the two questions I had seemed to "annoy" the person on the line. Those are my reasons for my so-so customer service comment. One other thing to note. The SSBC kit comes with a crappy adjustable rear prop valve. Spend the extra money and get a real prop valve from Inline Tube. And while you are at it,you can buy pre-bent brake lines from Inline Tube also. SSBC doesnt carry the front brake lines to the Master Cylinder. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimib: My64GTO SSBC may be my 1st choice, bummer though about "So-So customer service. I'm still trying to find out if tall spindles lower the front end. Certainly don't want this!! Thanks Jim <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
My64GTO
The faceless “tone of voice” on the opposite end says much of the individual and employer whether good or bad. Sounds like your event was frustrating rather than painful, so I’ll still keep this company in mind. This is great to know however. I’m certainly trying to avoid mix and match parts but just a prop valve and brake lines doesn’t sound too bad. By the way, I thought the original brake lines would work. Is it necessary to replace the master cylinder and power boaster also? This should be a fun project!!!! |
Well your setup might be different. I had a single bowl master cylinder, without a power booster.
All of my lines met at a junction block on the frame then a single line off of that went to the master cylinder. If you really want fun, make sure you rebuild the entire front end at the same time like I did! By the time I was done, the only original part that remained was the pitman arm. I did all of the bushings, ball joints, tierods, springs etc.... in a one car garage. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimib: My64GTO The faceless “tone of voice” on the opposite end says much of the individual and employer whether good or bad. Sounds like your event was frustrating rather than painful, so I’ll still keep this company in mind. This is great to know however. I’m certainly trying to avoid mix and match parts but just a prop valve and brake lines doesn’t sound too bad. By the way, I thought the original brake lines would work. Is it necessary to replace the master cylinder and power boaster also? This should be a fun project!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
Actually that’s my plan. I’ll be purchasing all polyurethane bushings and most likely replace the majority of front end parts. Still weighing my options on though on tubular control arms. Don’t know if it’s worth the money. It’s just a street car.
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Go with Polygraphite, urethane squeak.
http://www.p-s-t.com <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimib: Actually that’s my plan. I’ll be purchasing all polyurethane bushings and most likely replace the majority of front end parts. Still weighing my options on though on tubular control arms. Don’t know if it’s worth the money. It’s just a street car. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
Well, here's another great one from the kit I bought. I finally got the line that I had them make for me, only to find it was bent as if to mirror my templet. The bend that goes into the P-valve is 180 out from where it needs to be! ARRRGGHHH!!!!! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif I am going to take the original one they sent me and have someone cut it down for me.
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Joe,
Can't you heat the lines and bend it yourself? I ask because I may have to do this? Jim |
It seems like there is some consensus...
I got my SSBC front discs with 2" drop, Hotchkiss springs, ADDCO rear swaybar, KYB Shocks last Friday. My P-S-T Super Front End Polygraphite kit arrived today. I'm going to be a busy boy. I'll post some pictures soon... |
Jim, I used the original (wrong) line that they sent me and cut it down to size. I was able to finish hooking everything up this afternoon. I hope to bleed the system tomorrow and I will let you know how it goes from there. I also forgot to mention that they did not include the bolts for the master brake booster. I had to get my own, which turned out to be metric!!!!
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Oh yeah, after much grinding and beating with a hammer, I was able to get the left side caliper brackets to fit. Chris, are you reading any of this????
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If I was working on an A-body and wanted to retain original 14" rims I'd look into mid 80's G-body brakes and spindles.
With the proper adapter balljoints and tie rods you should be able to bolt in the tall spindle of a G-body since the spindle is essentially the same as the Tall spindle on a 12" rotor conversion with B-body parts, but with a shallower mounted caliper. The G-body STANDARD discs use a rotor about 10.5" and would be the best chance of fitting in a 14" rim. Worst case you will need 14" rims made for disc brakes, which are out there. Still need to check for caliper to rim face clearance but it would be a good chance. The knuckles and brakes are dime-a-dozen in the salvage industry and can be had cheeeaap. This also allows you to have discs that you can maintain with parts from ANY parts store. You could go a step further and get the rear discs off of an 82-86 F-body, and bolt them on the rear. They fit in a 14" rim too. Then buy a cast iron 4 wheel disc master cylinder for the 79 WS6 TA. Bolt a combo valve from the same into the car and you have a done package behind stock rims. With this setup you have the improved suspension geometry and brakes all in one move. I have not done the swap but the impression I get is that people have completed it with no need for the tubular arms. |
My brackets work with 14's though not the early drum Rally 1's.
http://i20.ebayimg.com/02/i/01/50/c6/d9_1_sb.JPG |
I called Ames and their kit is $730 power disc conversion and includes all lines, front and rear. Has anyone used the kit from Ames?
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It sounds as though some of you have not dealt too much with the aftermarket! Welcome to the world of hotrodding. If the line isn't bent correctly, bust out a tubing bender and make it right. If you guys are at a state where you are doing brake conversions, cutting and flaring tubing should be a no brainer. a little bracket fab work won't kill you either. I went with the tubular uppers and b-body spindles on my 67 gto. It was advertized at the time (12 years ago) that the taller spindles would also lower the car by 2". I did not qualify this with measurements, but was looking to lower the car anyway. Initially Global West sent me a-arms for a g-body. Sent them back for a-body arms. The camber is off by -2', requiring me to either use offset control arm shafts or relocate the mounting points on the frame. I went with the offset shafts. On the rear I went with caliper brackets from the rear of an 84 eldorado. Calipers from an S10 or G-body. No parking brake though. If I wanted a parking brake, the eldo caliper would work. For a Master, I went with one from an IROC camaro, with no booster, and no proportioning valve. 15 in wheels are required with the 12" rotors up front. To get the 5 x 4.75 bolt circle back, went with 1LE camaro rotors. At the time, I was president of the broke a$$ of the month club. The only new parts were the control arms and the front rotors. Everything else was from the salvage yard. Even the pads were scuffed and used. Total cost was $750. The arms alone were $400, rotors about $90 each.
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All - Several of us on the First Gen Firebird Mailing list have used the SSBC kit with less than stellar results (each made the decision independantly of the others with EXACTLY the same results). The kits look great, install easily, and do everything EXCEPT STOP THE CAR CORRECTLY!!! None of us were successful in getting enough pressure to the front calipers. Under "average" braking conditions everything seems OK, but under hard braking this kit just doesn't cut it. At least one of us has tried replacing the master cylinder with an entirely different unit with higher capacity (i.e. 1 ton truck unit I believe), but results still weren't what they are supposed to be. I can't comment on SSBC's other (non first gen Bird) kits, but I can say these kits do not appear to work as they are supposed to. It may be a booster issue, but I have yet to spend even more money exploring that avenue.
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CAB witch kits are we talking about as i bought the compleat force 10 4 piston calipers/system with 13 inch disks in the frond and single piston handbrake system with 11,25 disks for the back. i havend install them yet , cant imagen they would not stop my 68 bird properly(forgive my spelling im Dutch)
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Dudes,
all these aftermarket deals sound like one big pain in the ass, why not just go with a 69-72 A-body swap, get new loaded calipers and M-cyl and rotors, and your stopping real good for under $600.00. All the tubing is readily available at most parts stores. No compatiblity issues to speak of, they bolt right up no sweat. Mine stops great, took less than a day to get it done. ITO |
I just ordered my ssbc brake conversion kit from summit for 859. I have already purchased a p-s-t super front end kit with polygraphite and a 1 1/4 sway bar to go with new springs and kyb gas a just shocks.I will be starting install tomorrow. I'll let u know how it goes.
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Yikes, now I don't feel quite so comfortable with my decision to buy the kit from www.inlinetube.com! I thought I had researched this pretty well but maybe not. I decided on the inline set because of the auto proportioning valve. The SSBC set was a manual valve. Where can I find the 68 A-body swap?? Hints will be appreciated.
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I started the swap after work on Saturday.I have my neighbor doing the job with my help as he is a restorer and has a safer place to do it.All was removed in a couple of hours that night.Sunday we bagan assemble and all fit great except for having to elongate a hole in the bracket for the booster.Quit working after 4 hours, mostly spent on the new a arm bushings,to get a spring compressor and lower ball joint tool today.
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GTO2050, I used the Inline PDB conversion on our 65 GTO, no installation problems at all. I went with them because they cut me a break on their SS lines.
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All is done with no problems. I and the restorer would recomend SSBC. He said he was very impressed and they are better than any other kits he has used.
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I went with conversion kit from Inline Tube (Shelby Township, MI) for my 69. I also picked up front stainless steel lines and fittings for '71 GTO to use instead of the spaghetti of lines they provide in the kit.
So far all parts are installing with ease. The lines will need some tweaking and I'll have to fabricate a bracket for the '71 proportioning valve to mount on the frame. The professionalism and personalities of their technical help however is something to be desired. Overall I am pleased with the conversion kit. For suspension on the front end I went with Performance Suspension Technology (PST) super front end kit with polygraphite bushings. Again, a very nice kit. Also bought their 1.25" front sway bar, nice unit. Don't forget to get replacement hardware where possible and hopfully you have saved all the old hardware. About the only thing old for my installation are the screws that secire the front sway bar bushing brackets to the frame. |
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It sounds as though some of you have not dealt too much with the aftermarket! Welcome to the world of hotrodding. If the line isn't bent correctly, bust out a tubing bender and make it right. If you guys are at a state where you are doing brake conversions, cutting and flaring tubing should be a no brainer. a little bracket fab work won't kill you either. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Tininjun67, I agree, BUT when you shell out close to a grand for a setup, you better get it right the first time!
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Bought my kit from SSBC about Year and a half ago. Instructions where so so,told you to replace the steering arm backwards. What none of the suppliers of convertion kits tell you is that most require a min of 18" of engine vacuum to operate their booster. Am running a Ram Air IV in my 428 and it only gets 12". Had to change the master from the one sent which was for 4 wheel disc, to one for front only. Added a canister and that help quite a bit. So beware, not all as advertised.
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JudgeITO,
Will that set up work on a 66 GTO, 15" rims??? |
The kit on my 1st gen bird was teh standard SSBC power disc kit (not the Force 10 kit). At least 3 of us on the 1st gen Firebird list are dissatisfied with teh performance of the kit despite the fact that it looked good, installed easily, and all parts appeared to be of high quality. I'm leaning towards the power booster being undersized in this particular kit - doesn't seem to get enough pressure to the front calipers ultimately. One of the members tried replacing the master cylinder already still without satisfactory results.
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SSBC power kit on my 67 Tempest works GREAT, PST Poly-Graphite bushings were a good idea at the same time.
Still running my 14" Rally II's, which helped me to decide to go with SSBC, in the first place. Plus Minimal hassles. See my project atSouth Coast Rides go to "in Progress" |
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PonchoMike:
GTO2050, I used the Inline PDB conversion on our 65 GTO, no installation problems at all. I went with them because they cut me a break on their SS lines. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I pulled the trigger on the inlinetube set and upgraded the master to an 11" and stainless. Now I am waiting for the package toarrive! |
Doesn't sound like 14" wheels, huh?
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