I finally got my '74 Formula running with a factory HEI. 12 volts supplied by running resistor wire to a relay and sending the 12 volts back from the battery. I am running a 990 module and stock coil. It does have some advance issues, that I have to get through. I gave it a wash and put it away for the night. Tried to start it today - no spark. Question 1. How long will the module last without grease? I only found out module needed grease after reading other posts here. Question 2. Is it possible too many volts are getting to the distributor, cooking the coil or module? I haven't been able to test the exact voltage at the dist. If not, does anyone have any other ideas?

thanks,
Frank

I finally got my '74 Formula running with a factory HEI. 12 volts supplied by running resistor wire to a relay and sending the 12 volts back from the battery. I am running a 990 module and stock coil. It does have some advance issues, that I have to get through. I gave it a wash and put it away for the night. Tried to start it today - no spark. Question 1. How long will the module last without grease? I only found out module needed grease after reading other posts here. Question 2. Is it possible too many volts are getting to the distributor, cooking the coil or module? I haven't been able to test the exact voltage at the dist. If not, does anyone have any other ideas?

thanks,
Frank

I don't know how long module will last without grease but I would suspect it would be months rather than hours. How long have you run it like this?
If your alternator is putting out the standard 14-15 volts, that will not cook module or coil. You need to get a cheap multimeter and confirm what voltage you are getting at the main distributor feed.
Also disconnect the module connector inside the dist. that comes from the pickup coil under the centrifugal weights. Measure the resistance of this coil. I think it should be about 800 ohms. With ohmeter connected, wiggle the two wires to look for changes in resistance as they can break inside the insulation from the constant cycling of the vacuum advance.
Another possibilty is the main power connecter coming loose as the retaining clips are usually broken off.

G`Day Malky.I only drove it around the block a dozen times or so, until the neighbours shooshed me. Total run time 45 mins. starting, idleing while tuneing & a few quick blasts down the road. The alternator is standard @ 14 volts.I did buy a cheap multimeter today & there is 12.17 volts at main dist. feed & the pick up coil is @ 820 ohms. I tried another module today, second hand I think its worse than my original, did not help. I also bought a MSD in cap coil pn8225. I would buy another module, but all you can get is E-Tron for $65.00 I would prefer another 990, if I could find one, at around $95.00, $130.00 will get me the MSD pn8364. Another question,I have the red & white wire coil, the MSD8225 is red & yellow, is this OK?
Thanks Frank.

I don't know for sure about the coil wiring, Frank, but the three spare coils I have are yellow/red wires.
Primary side resistance seems to be less than 1 ohm. Secondary is 8 koms for one and 14 kohms for the othr two.
About the only 2 things left that could be wrong if module is OK are broken wire/bad connection, or the condenser. I have never had a condenser on an HEI fail on me so I am not sure what that does. If it is anything like the old points distributor, it can't be good for the module. Try a search on this board for "condenser" or "capacitor"
I stopped to help a guy stranded in a Corvette recently and he had no spark. I swapped in a good module and that did not fix it. I lifted the cap off with everything still connected and got him to crank the engine just to make sure the rotor was turning. When I replaced the cap, he had spark. It was probably a loose connection or wire broken that I disturbed by stretching the wiring.

Franky,
I may not completely understand what you're asking but I'll try to help. The module definitely needs the heat sink compound. no question about that. Without it ALL modules reguardless of brand, will die a painful and useless death without the heat sink compound.

How long? Depends on a couple of things. Mainly the amount of heat it has to endure. The hotter it gets the quicker it will cook. And how was the past history before you got it?? Who knows? In an emergency you could probably get by without the compound, but I would not chance it for far. Have seen some go for a couple hundred miles and seen a couple last for about 15-20. So the answer is not for very long.

Gotta remember the thing is nothing more than an electronic version of a set of points. No more, no less. It does however have the ability to add an expanding dwell feature in it and that adds somewhat to the complexity of the deal. Electronics don't like heat, period. The cooler the better. They are pretty tough but don't expect to be able to hold a torch over the thing and have it last for ever either.

Did you say you washed the car or the distributor??? I got a little confused there. Possible the cap got moisture inside???

The ignition coil in fact should be matched to the respective pickup coil that goes with it. I have explained this in other posts so will not go in depth about it here. Some say it's bunk, and others have experienced it first hand and believe what I say, because it has solved some of their problems. They say.

All I know is what I was taught and what I was explained and told. Especially when starting, you will have far less troubles if you keep the yellow pickup coil connector with the matching yellow/red ignition coil (Chevy), and the clear plug pickup coil connector with the red/white ignition coil (Pontiac).

As far as your module problem, well, I don't know until you get a proven and known module in there you may never know either. There are some simple tests to do and if you wish I'll go over them with you, but they are too lengthy to list here.

The pickup coil resistance sounds fine and I assume that reading you obtained cold, correct? Might try and re-read it with it hot and see if there is any difference.


Let us know what you find.

Wow, I didn't know Chevy's and Pontiacs had different ignition coils and p/u coils. Wonder why that is?
The spare coils I have are all from Chevy's so that is why the wires are yellow/red.
Sun Tuned, how often have you seen bad wiring from breaks inside the insulation or bad connections cause this kind of problem?

Ok guys here is an update, I bought a new module on the way home from work, threw it in (with grease) & guess what? still no spark. Now I am starting to lose it. Sun Tuned thanks for joining in, to answer your questions. I washed the car, including engine bay, water may have got in there , but tonight I pulled the dizzy & took it to a friends place that also posts here "Geoff" & he tested it on the bench, it seems to have a good spark, he tested my original module & it was ok also. Now to the pick up coil, down here there is not much info & a lot of confusion regarding this type of dizzy as there were no Holdens built with them, so we rely on people like yourselves & enthusiasts here like Geoff. My local speed shop only sells the one pickup coil which is a yellow plug, my original coil in cap is red & white. Unfortunately the original pickup coil did not have a plug. With the pickup coil again, yes this was a cold reading. The only thing old in this dizzy now is the capacitor & wireing from plug to module & I will have a search for them next. Please remember guys we tested this on the bench with positive results. Geoff is coming to my place to see if its my wire up job. Car is a 1974 Formula, it had a twin point mallory in it, which served faithfully in it for the last 16 years, Unfortunately fuel here is getting worse, & even with 98 octane the plugs foul. Time for a better spark! anything else you can think of or other tests please let me know.Regarding my response time back to your questions, please be patient as I am writing this at 10pm local time in Sydney.
Thanks Frank.

Malky,
You talking about the insulation on the pickup coils, or the ignition coils, or both???

Well, before we go hanging a bunch of parts, possibly unnecessarily, let's do some lookin around.

Inspect the cap and be sure it's in good condition, look at the under the coil graphite bushing, "rotor button" as most call it. It should be protruding from the bottom of the cap boss approx 1/8 of an inch. The rotor itself on these HEI's can be kind of finicky too, make sure there are no burn through marks on the rotor and make sure the firing tip end has not been excessively ground back(air gap).

Those are pretty much the basics as far as visual inspection. I would rather see you find a good 12v source at the fuse block to run a 10-12 ga. stranded lead wire from, to the ignition switch instead of the relay. I know it works, but it is a potential problem spot. Just fold the factory resistance wire back and tape it up for possible future use.

The HEI is very voltage sensitive in that it has to have enough oomph to operate correctly. Alot of guys have forgot this and just connected their factory resistance wire to the bottom of the cap terminal only to find the car runs like garbage afterwards. Oh sure the thing will still run...sort of... but it will not run like it's supposed to. You need a minimum of 12v to make it work the most for you and anything more makes it turn rpm higher and higher. Don't go over 18.5v for an extended period or you'll toast it in short order.

Most important is to make sure the basic tune up is in order and work from there. I've seen these same problems be anything from a bad rotor to a bum set of plugs, to a bad new electronic part (new don't always mean good). Since you are where you are and I know how $$$ things get when experimenting there, lets try and test before we go hanging too many parts on it unnecessarily.

2 more things...

If you want to see if there is any difference you could run a straight 10 ga wire from the + bat terminal to the "BATT" location on the cap and drive it and see. Gonna make shutting it off not too easy but for a quick test....

The other thing is this. I don't know about an Allen machine, (I suspect they are the same), But ANY, and I mean ANY, ghosted arrows on a Sun distributor machine someone may have down there, means bad pickup coil. Believe it! I don't care if it and the next 3 new pickup coils installed after it do the same thing, then you tell em I said all 4 are junk. so watch out for that.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif Frankly 455, Loose the resistance wire, you will never get HEI type voltages through your system with it still in place.

Same story, many Old Posts... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

<span class="ev_code_RED">MRDAN7</span>

Sun Tuned, to answer your questions the cap is new, I did have a look for cracks though & its ok. The graphite bush is also new, & protrudes the 1/8th you suggested, Rotor is a new MSD, coil new MSD, pick up coil new. Dist. body 1976 Trans Am cleaned up. New 10mm leads, & I bought that new module yesterday.
I initially started the car last Saturday with a wire directly from the battery, pulled the wire to switch off, & connected my relay system to fire it up several times while tuning, then it was washed & put away for the night & wouldnt start again the next day. Unless someone thinks of something else I`ll lock it up till Sunday when Geoff & I work on it again, Keep thinking boys please. Hey Sun Tuned are you ready for a holiday in Sydney, Accomodation paid for? you might be stuck working under my hood though.
Take it easy Frank.

Sun Tuned, Have you seen sneaky, hard-to-find wiring faults in the wiring connecting the body to the cap?

Frank, if you tested the dizzy (great abbreviation, that) off the car and it made sparks, it has to be the 12 V to the dizzy is bad or the rotor is not turning. Or is it possible it is not grounded? Good luck.

Just as a thought, although you probably would have found this by now...20 years ago, I had a similar problem on my first '68 GTO. In my haste to do a tuneup before a road trip, I pinched the condenser lead between the distributor cap and the distributor. Grounded the points so no fire.
In other words, just as the previous post reminds you to make sure that the system hasn't lost a ground connection, it's also important to make sure that no hot wire is grounded.

Heres another one. Is the rotor spinning? I've had a timing chain break before. Parked the car. It was running fine. Went to start it and nothing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sun Tuned:
If you want to see if there is any difference you could run a straight 10 ga wire from the + bat terminal to the "BATT" location on the cap and drive it and see. Gonna make shutting it off not too easy but for a quick test.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing like this temporary deal to narrow down your search. Ignition switches have been known to work in START and not in RUN. And yes this can happen intermittently. I'd do SunTuned test lead idea first.. pretty much eliminates the vehicle wiring.. just gotta check for any errant grounds.

Hey Guys, thanks for still helping. Malky I checked the rotor, it is spinning, I am a little suspicious about the earth because I left the dust cover off & using a multimeter checked the power running directly to the coil, through the relay & direct from the temporary power wire, both times showed over 12 volts, dropping down to around 9 volts while cranking, I did use the rocker cover for the earth though so the earth strap is ok.
Greg, the wire is not pinched, but may have been before I got it & damaged it. Can you buy that short loom seperate with capacitor? may as well get that, everything else is new.
Hey Malky, I have been to the States twice now, & ofcourse I hit as many Junkyards & parts places I could find, in Australia we have a few abbreviations & different names eg. what you guys call a hood we call a bonnet. Trunk is a boot. a Fender is a gaurd, Posi = slippery diff. So you can imagine the weird looks I got when I was there. Thanks again.
Take it easy Frank.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by franky 455:
Can you buy that short loom seperate with capacitor? may as well get that, everything else is new.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The condenser (capacitor) that came with the old style breaker points could be bought seperately but I'm not sure about the HEI system. Don't see why not.

Another thing to check is that your timing chain hasn't jumped a tooth. That wouldn't keep it from firing but it would fire in the wrong time and so, would not start.
Just throwing out more ideas.

Frank, coupla things - I don't think grounding the multimeter on the rocker cover proves you have the dizzy grounded. Check ohms between dizzy body and block, should be 0. The HEI holdown clamp should make a pretty good ground to the block. Long shot but worth a check.
The other thing is 9V cranking is low. I would expect 10-11V. Check voltage at battery while cranking. If it higher, you are losing volts at HEI. Sun Tuned says HEI's are sensitive to volts - maybe 9V is too low. Otherwise, I am fresh out of ideas.
I am ex-Brit so I am familiar with most Aussie terms but dizzy is a new one on me.

Malky,
Yes, but only 2. 1 was used in conjunction with an MSD 7 and I found it by getting shocked outta my socks by accident when i brushed against it while testing it to see what was wrong with it. I found it.

The other was a fracture right just inside where the plastic connector body is molded around the wires at the cap base where the wires go through the actual housing of the dist. Heat caused the wires to become brittle and they just fractured... they'll all do that when old enough or hot enough to harden the wire covering.


Franky,
It's close to midnight. Been a looong long day today. Tomorrow we'll do the easy HEI test to see if we can figure out what's wrong.

First tell us what the thing is not doing or why you think it may be broke, just to refresh my feeble memory.

Food for thought... you can check to see if the thing is grounded with an ohmmeter or you can get lazy like I do sometimes and just Frankenstein the thing up, complete with extra wires running all over just for giggles. run a jumper wire from the housing to an engine bolt or alternator case and see what happens.

Have you actually checked the resistance of this MSD coil on the primary and the secondary with your ohmmeter????

And you do have the extra ground strap under the coil right???

Homework time.

Ok guys "" we have ignition " well we have a spark anyway. Here is the latest, I bought a new loom with the capacitor, threw it in and - nothing. I now have everything replaceable, apart from bushes, brand new.
I left it until today, as Geoff volunteered to check it out. He started by testing it out of the car,on the bench where we got a great spark, threw it back in and - no spark.
He noticed a larger gap between the points of the reluctor & the pick up coil, compared to another HEI dizzy I have borrowed.
I cleaned up the borrowed dizzy & installed all the new parts apart from the new, after market, pick up coil, threw it in the car and - spark.
She fired up but was sick, at this time the battery was getting flat, so we called it a day & put everything on charge, for the next time I get a chance.
What we discovered was that turning the dizzy by hand slowly ( cranking speed ) it would not spark, yet quicker, it would. With the other dizzy you could turn it slowly & it would spark.
I noticed I didn`t get that notchy feel as you rotate the shaft by hand, that I got prior to replaceing the pick up coil. What do you think? heard of that one before?
Take it easy, Frank.

Pickup coil was out of alignment. All 8 teeth should freely rotate inside the outer teeth of the pickup coil with out touching ANYTHING. Any touching equates to a misfire. Bushing wear figures in on this also.

Might also clean the teeth on the reluctor if you got it apart with a small handheld wire brush. Don't round off the teeth of the reluctor, just clean the metal so you have a clean surface for good magnetism between the 2. Check that airgap!

I believe I owe you a quick troubleshoot.

Can find this in most of the better shop manuals. many may not have that access though and have the access to this board.

First get some simple tools, won't need much...

1. 12v test light
2.simple volt/ohm meter
3.spark tester
Now this can be bought at the parts house or you can make one in a small amount of time. All it is , is a spark plug that has the ground electrode cut off so the spark has to jump approx .125 of an inch. it also has an alligator clip brazed to the hex of the plug shell. Cost: about 5.00 in the states or you can make one just as good out of an old spark plug for lots less.

Now let's get to work...

First Take the volt/ohm meter and verify the battery voltage across the bat terminals of the battery.

Then disconnect the "BAT" terminal on the dist cap (which is the 12v lead to the dist cap itself) and turn ign switch on and read voltage. Neg lead of meter to good ground and pos lead to the 12v wire terminal you just disconnected. Should be same as battery voltage or maybe a .1 volt less.

Reconnect the 12v wire to the cap and remove a plug wire. Connect the spark tester(alligator clipped plug)to the removed wire and put the clip on a good engine ground(bolt,alt case, etc.

Crank engine and if you get spark, look somewhere else as the HEI is good.

If not ... then here we go.

Remove coil cover on top of cap.

+ lead of voltmeter to "BAT" terminal
- lead to good ground
crank engine... less than 7 volts = problem in wiring from ign switch.

If more than 7 volts move the + lead to the "TACH" terminal of coil and turn ignition to "on" position. If reading now is less than 1 volt, then the ign coil is likely toast. If reading is 1-9 volts then the module is likely toast.If more than 10 volts, then attach spark tester to the carbon brush under the cap

(will need to lift cap off of housing and turn upside down for this, leave the little cap harness connected for all tests)

Spark tester will need a jumper wire from its shell to ground for this next test.

Crank the engine and spark should be jumping all over the tester. If that happens then look at cap for crack,water, mice, moth balls, old tools, small animals, etc.

If there is still no spark, then pull the pickup coil leads (green/white) from the module.

connect the - lead of voltmeter to good ground.
connect the + lead to "TACH" terminal.
Connect the 12v test light alligator clip to the "POS" battery post.
Turn ign switch to on position.
Watch the voltmeter as the test light is touched to the "G" terminal of the module FOR NO LONGER THAN 5 SECONDS AT A TIME, or you'll maybe smoke the module and be buying another.
What this does is put a trigger voltage to the module and causes the little transistor inside the module to close the coil primary ground circuit. Now when you remove the test light the voltage goes away and the transistor lets go and the coil primary collapses.

At this point the voltage reading on the meter should drop. And there should be a spark from the spark tester still connected to the carbon brush.

If voltage does not drop then look and be sure the module is properly grounded and all grounding connections are clean.

If voltage did drop and there was spark across tester, and you were tring to originally diagnose a "no spark/no start" condition....then replace the pickup coil. Why? because now you got spark when your supposed to have it, except the pickup coil is the only thing NOT still connected. Removing voltage from the module caused the transistor iside it to turn on/off. If you got spark at the tester then you know that that was happening.

You can also test the resistance of the pickup coil (green/white) wires and read the resistance between the 2. GM specs call for 500-1500 ohms.... I say 760-860 is good and anything else may work, but usually not in my experience, vey well.

If you got no spark when the test light was removed, then the module is likely bad, that is if you did the test right. It could also be because the ign coil ground was dirty/faulty etc. It is also possible that the ign coil itself is bad, so GM recommends a module testing unit to test the module seperately, to diffrentiate between the 2.

As confusing as this all may seem it is fairly starightforward.


Now let's take a look and see what we should do that's not really in the shop manual that happens in the real world.

Got one that has no spark and no start...

1.verify battery voltage.
2.check voltage at lead wire to cap with
key in "on" pos and in "cranking" pos.
Should be within batt voltage with key
on and around ideally 10 while cranking.
3.Remove the coil cover
4.Check primary resistance of ign coil
Red/White or Red/Yellow wires with plug
cap connector removed.
Good coil will read approx .5 to .9 of 1 ohm
Bad coil will be .2 or less or higher than
say 1.5 ohms.
5.Read secondary resistance of coil.
2 ways to do this with coil out of cap
and with it in the cap. Difference is ease
of testing and final reading due to carbon
brush.
Ohmmeter lead red to "ground" terminal
ohmeter lead black to carbon brush under cap
resistance will be 6000-30000ohms.

I like to read that with the coil out of
the cap, in that case test the round metal
disc at bottom of coil and the black ground
wire coming out of the coil epoxy.

Reading should be lower and usually in the
8000-9000 ohm range.
Reason it's lower is your not taking into
account the resistance of the carbon brush
itself. Most brushes read about the same
but do realize that hey can differ to some
extent.

If you get a good reading on the primary and
secondary then likely the coil is good and
at least you know it's not shorted and can
go on testing. I like to take the time to do
this before hanging the internals all over
the engine compartment. Usually if you find a
odd reading here you can save the detailed
testing as you will only find you already
have found the problem earlier.
6. Check the resistance of the pickup coil.
7. Check the grounding of the pickup coil
leads in relation to the housing. Reading
should be infinite here on both.
8. Then go into detailed testing after the
previous 7 steps have been looked at.
Might save you some time.

Hope that helps.

Got some distributors that have been here a long,long time. Can't get in touch with the owners for some reason... e-mail not working right or no answer at the phone number they listed and a couple have no return address, or phone number either. Am still trying to contact these individuals. Just to let everybody know.

See ya!

Fantastic info, Sun Tuned. I have never seen this written down anywhere else.

Sun Tuned thanks for the trouble shoot, it is something I will print & keep in a safe place, as I am sure everyone reading it & has an HEI will. I checked the air gap we spoke of & it's around 18 thou (very hard to measure), do you think that is excessive? please read my last post & how we found the problem, it is a brand new pick up coil, Thanks again.
Take it easy, Frank.

Well,
I gotta say here in the last 3 years especially, the quality of these pickup coils is suspect at best. I have had more problems with these damn things lately than ever.

Brand makes no difference, it used to. Lately the old standbys are worse than the cheap stuff. Some will unexpectedly go awol on you, had 3 do that. Lasted about 2 weeks and then poof no working those were Standard coils. Then there was a friend of mine who puts together way more of these things than I do, who got a bad batch from Delco that were wrong polarity. Most lately will just be out of alignment.

This stuff isn't the newest, current, most technologically mind boggling part on a car anymore, so you gotta figure they got a bunch of .50 cent an hour labor slapping this stuff together thesedays.

With that said... I absolutely hate and have had little luck with anything that,that "Zoned out" place sells electrically. However, they do have one thing I will buy that does work for now at least. That is their Wells brand pickup coils.

I know what some of you are saying, and I know, I know. Take a digital ohmmeter with you, test what they bring you and they should all read right at 846-855 ohms. Every one. Make sure they aren't physically cracked or damaged and measure them and go home with it if it passes.

I have not been able to install 1 pickup coil yet in the last year that dropped right in. Not 1. I don't even try anymore, I automatically re-align them all before installation. Why??? Well they won't be right if I don't. See, if any of the teeth come in contact with the pickup coil you got a problem. Most of these pickup coils are real close but as far as I'm concerned "close" only counts in Atomic bombs and hand grenades. So to be right they gotta be fixed. Not hard to do but tedious if you don't got the dowel tool to do it with. If you don't, you turn the reluctor till all 8 line up with all 8 on the coil and look at them. Magic marker the ones that are real close to touching and you'll see that you probably end up with 2 or 3 that have marks showing they need fixing. loosen the 3 screws that hold the thing together and favor the side that had the tightest clearance and make that side have more clearance by pushing the ring one way or the other. Retighten the screws and test fit it all again. Very time consuming to do but most all need it done.Why don't they come better aligned? Costs more money to make sure of all that nonsense is done right they say. Fixed 2 that had that exact same problem and several big name shops here in town worked on these guys cars and to no avail. Cars still had a dead miss in them. Carb guys going banannas trying to fix a prob that never existed in the carb to begin with cause thats where everyone said the prob had to be.

And yes, you can cheat on this. You can very lightly file the tips of the reluctor to gain clearance, BUT! BUT! BUT! I'll say it again, BUT, YOU WILL DECREASE THE SIGNAL STRENGTH OF THE DEAL BY DOING THIS, IF NOT DONE REAL CAREFULLY! It can be done, and successfully but I do not recommend doing it. I would rather see you properly align the pickup coil first.

So far the Wells pickup coils have been the most stable from coil to coil and the closest to being in alignment, as of today..SEPT 6, 2004. That way you don't have to go jacking with stuff you really don't want to or have the tools to work on anyway.

.018 sounds awful wide to one side to me.

Franky, if it won't spark at low speed and you don't feel the "notchiness" when turning, could the ring magnet under the stationary teeth be weak?

OK Sun Tuned the search now begins for me, for the Wells pick up coil, as that .018 is all round, not just one side, no rush as I have the other dizzy in for now.
Malky, to answer your question, yes there is every chance that the magnet is weak, & is what I suspect from this cheap & nasty pick up coil, but how do you measure its strength? This is why I am going to look for a better one. Thanks everyone & I will let you know how it goes. Local car show on Sunday & I want to go in it.

I'm the 'Geoff' that Frank referred to. The aftermarket p/up coil had a noticably bigger air gap between the reluctor teeth & pole piece than did the stock piece. My guess is the gap is upwards of 0.015" & could be as large as 0.025"; hard to measure without brass feeler gauges. This aftermarket p/up coil produced a great spark on the bench because spinning the dist shaft by hand generateed a higher voltage than when cranking more slowly in the car; in the car, the output from this pick up was too low. I compared both p/ups on the bench by spinning the dist shafts by hand & measuring the output at the p/up wires. The stock p/up generated about 100 mv & the aftermarket one generated only 30-40 mv; both measured around 770-780 ohms. I think Frank also has a couple of other problems that have aggravated this problem. His battery voltage was low when we started, about 12.38v, usually a sign that a battery is past it's peak; also, I think his starter may need a rebuild because it seemed to me to crank slow, even with a booster connected. At the end, we had it firing, but not starting, & I believe he now has a Holleyitis problem. The Holley has no choke, but fires when you pump the pedal; so it appears the engine uses up the pump shot to fire, but there is no idle or main circuit to maintain running. We'll get there.

Should have added that we had a wire direct from the batt [+] terminal to the [+] terminal on the HEI, so the HEI was definitely getting full battery voltage.

Just to put closure to this topic & thank eveyone that contributed, My Firebird is flying once again & is very happy with its new spark.
It seems the problem was the pick up coil, even though it was new. The gap from the reluctor on the shaft, to the points of the pick up coil were to large all round & could not be adjusted.
Hope this helps.
Frank.

I recently discovered this site and just found this discussion. Just last week I had basically the same trouble with an HEI unit that I cleaned up, put some new parts in and put in my Grand Am. I checked everything and was real frustrated when it would'nt start 90% of the time. It turned out to be my pickup coil was the problem. I learned the hard way that you are not supposed to take it appart. I did this when I cleaned up the distributor. I bought a new Wells pick up coil at Auto Zone and now it starts right up. It is good to know that they can be adjusted with care.

Glad you got it fixed Franky, and thanks for letting us know what it was. That just illustrates... new doesn't always mean good.