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Does anybody have any information on these cars?ie production #'s any information I can get would be appreciated.Thanks
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Does anybody have any information on these cars?ie production #'s any information I can get would be appreciated.Thanks
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I have some info, but it is in storage. I may have an opportunity to get it in 2 weeks.
What do you want to know? I can tell you about 5500 were made in 1971 and perhaps 8000 were made in 1972. I think 54 of the GT-37s were built with the 455HO. Rarer still is the regular 455. |
OPH will be by shortly. You may want to put down the questions you want answers to ahead of time.
The GT-37's were only built from 70 1/2 through 71. There were 3 stripe packages. 70 1/2 looked like a 69 Judge stripe. 71 looked like 70-72 Judge stripes and 71 1/2 were the sword stripe that was also used in on the 72 LeMans GT and on some 73's with the GT package. For 1970 and 1971 the package consisted of 350 engine, dual exhaust with GTO type tips through the cutouts in the real valance panel, 3 speed hd trans.w/Hurst shifter, stripes, hood pins, Rally II wheels w/o trim ring and G70 X 14 tires, driver side body color mirror, GT-37 emblems. In 1970 it was available on both the 2 dr sedan and 2 dr hardtop. In 1971 it was only available on the 2 dr hardtop. In 1970 the engine choice was up through the 350/400 and in 1971 it was up through the 455HO. 4 speeds and auto's were also optional. OPH has the numbers on how many and what engines, or at least a better number than I do. In 1972 the T-37 went away and the Luxury LeMans was added. The LeMans became the basic A body car as the Tempest then the T-37 were in the past. The GT option in 72 was similar but do not believe the hood pins were part of it. Just don't remember that part but the remainder of the GT package was retained. The GT option remained for about 2 more years when the bumper car era came into being in 1973. If you do a search for T-37 and or GT-37, at this website at the top of the page you should be able to get more information. Then again maybe not. Tried it and it did not work. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif JLP |
Hello Jack,
Did the archive search & came up empty as well. I bet it's in the Lobby somewhere. Here are production numbers... that have handy: '71 & 71 1/2 GT-37 production: 5802 5015 350 2bbls 15 455 4bbls (all YC's with M40's) 54 455HO (aprox 20 YE's & 34 WC's & WL's) 146 400 2bbl 572 400 4bbl ----- 5802 Cars were built out of 5 plants & earliast built '71 1/2, so far examined has had bodytag indicating built 03C. With 4 other plants, some may have had their 1st '71 1/2's built as 03D body cars. LeMans GT's were avail for '72 & were avail in 2 door hardtop & convertable. Also avail with & w/o endura nose (T-41 pkg). All '72 LeMans GT's with 455HO had the endura frontend. 23537 w/455HO & M22= 10 23537 w/455HO & M40= 4 23867 w/455HO & M22= 2 23867 w/455HO & M40= 5 23537 w/455 L75 Dport & M40= 24 23867 w/455 L75 Dport & M40= 2 Have to do some digging for info on '72 400 & 350 breakout & total '72 LeMans GT breakout. Again for '72, most WU2 packaged LeMans were base 350 2bbls. |
Roger,It's about time !I thought I'd wait for you to answer this one.
http://www.elmrij.net/~mjmshodge/plate.jpg |
Is there any production breakdown for the 70 GT-37's?
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I have a 1972 Lemans GT with a 350 2 barrel bench seat automatic. was curious as to how many of these were made and just how rare is this car.. I bought mine new when I realized I was going to get married and had to get rid of my '67 GTO which was taking all my money....:-)
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'70 1/2 GT-37's were built on post cars (23327) & hardtops (23337). Believe there were 1419 built between the two body styles. Most of the '70 1/2's were 350 2bbl cars, but some were built with 400/4bbl. This year, the 400/4bbl auto GT-37's received the 330 horse 400 engine code XV with small valve "16" heads. 3 spd & 4spd 400 GT-37's received the 350 horse GTO engine code WT. There may have been '70 1/2 GT-37's built with 400 2bbls & T400's... but have yet to document one.
Skipping ahead to '72 production, the LeMans GT was avail in 2 door hardtop & convert bodystyles. Having never ran across a '72 LeMans GT post car, not sure if they exist. One thing for certain, the body colored mirrors included with the WU2 pkg will not allow the wing windows to open very far (the reason '71 GT-37 Post cars were not offered) Would love to see any documentation of a '72 post LeMans GT, if any such cars exist. 1972 LeMans GT (non convert) production: 7825 350 2bbl 289 400 2bbl 614 400 4bbl 24 455 4bbl (am assuming 4bbl) 14 455 HO ----- 8739 '72 LeMans GT (non converts) LeMans GT convert (2D67 w WU2) 59 350 2bbl 15 400 2bbl 31 400 4bbl 2 455 4bbl (recovered in OK) 455 HO (2 w/M22, 5 w/Turbo 400) ----- 115 '72 LeMans GT converts [This message was edited by ol' Pinion head on June 07, 2003 at 05:01 PM.] |
It looks like I have the same info on the gt-37 cars as you do.Thanks for the info anyways.
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I have a buddy that owns a 71 T-37 4door,with a #'s match 455HO auto.He says that there were only 2 built.There are some very unque Pontiacs out there and it seems that you think you know all that you can about each model and one Pontiac pots up with a wierd motor trans combo,in a model that you did'nt think that engine came in.Those are the Pontiacs I like.
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Your friend must be getting his production #'s from somewhere else than PHS. I'd def like to see the original buildsheet on that 4 door http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif
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I'm not sure what info he has on the car.I'll call him up and see what info he has.
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I found out that my buddy is on vacation.I'll get back with you next week.Hopefuly he has the info your interested in.
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No,hes had the car for a few years now.
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OPH, We ha 1970 GT-37 that we sold new at our dealership in 1970 with a 4002bbl/automatic. A pretty unique car as it was 'Orbit Orange' with a hood tach. I stll have invoice from car.
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only sort of related,but wish I still had the 72 lemans sport from my youth...this car was non enduro 350-2bbl bucket seat(no console) 4 spd. dual exh. glow in the dark black sword stripe on some color orange.paid $900.00 for car with 78,000 miles,couldnt wait to pull excellant running 350 in favor of 60 over 389 tripower.....sory ,I am in dream land, the year was 1980
thought I was wrong once.......but I was mistakin |
Supercarbob,
Thanks for the info http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif Clearing the cobwebs a little, seem to remember parting a '70 LeMans Sport with a 400 2bbl back in the early 90's. Makes sense that it was avail in a GT-37 as well. On the '70 1/2 Orbit Orange GT-37, do you remember what color the stripes were? Was the dealership in IL? THANKS. |
OPH, sorry about not getting to sooner. I don't get a chance to read everyday. I remember the car well,it had white/red/black 1969 Judge style stripes. Yes, car was sold in Illinois.
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This is the guy with the friend that has the 71 T-37 4door 455HO car.I talked to him about his car,the only paper work he has is PHS docs.The PHS dcos did'nt tell him anything about how many were made in this combo,or any other info he want to know.I told him that I was in Year One Judge Forum and I mentioned his car.Well I asked him for the vin.since he did'nt have any other info.For some reson he will not give it to me,he did'nt like the idea that I mentioned his car to people he did'nt know.You have to know him to understand his thoughts about this.I'll keep on trying.Who would know about these cars?I would like to know more about this car myself.Who would be the best source to talk too?Thanks
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According to my records, there were no 455 HO 4-doors in 1971. Either your friend is fibbing, is mistaken, has a 455-4, or it's a '72.
Maybe that's why he's pissed you mentioned the car to us? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif |
You might be right,I only saw the car for a short time.I did'nt check the vin at that time either.I was just amazed that it had a 455 HO in it.I see him once a year for a yearly reunion,maybe I'll get the vin then.What kind of production #'s do you have on these cars?I would be interested in that info.Thanks
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Little of the subject...
The 4 door hardtop LeMans Sport that was on e-Bay is now owned by a good friend of Lloyd's. It is a LeMans Sport, not a T-37. Very interesting car, as it was ordered by Monk King in Denton, TX. Monk's dealership racecar in '71 was the black/gold 455HO T-37 racecar owned by Mike Miner. I'd bet the 4door hardtop 455 LeMans Sport has some kind of Monk history...who knows, maybe as the towcar to the T-37 or as Mrs King's demo(?) I'd take a guess & bet it was his '71 demo, but know Monk's late '70 season demo was a white RA4 auto T/A. Hard to give up a RA4 T/A as a demo. Here's to Monk!!! [This message was edited by ol' Pinion head on June 25, 2003 at 10:05 PM.] |
Judgeman,
Might e-mail Diego, but am sure he has same copies of Fred Simmonds sheets as I have. If it wasn't for Mr Simmonds efforts, none of these production numbers would be known. |
Judgeman, Roger and others:
I have looked John's ex-Monk King '71 LeMans Sport 4-door over pretty well, but that was a few months ago, so I don't remember ALL of the details! Here's what I recall - and it's PHS documented! It's a '71 LeMans Sport 4 door hardtop Originally shipped to Monk King Pontiac T-41 (endura) front end option It had wire mesh GTO grills (incorrect) when John bought it, he's since replaced them with the unique '71 T41 LeMans grills Interestingly, the driver's side GTO grill had a rectangular cut out in it for a high-current battery connection - making it even more likely that it was used as Monk's tow / pit car for Miner's 455HO T-37 (at some point) Originally Lucerne Blue, then red, now black Black cloth power bench seat interior #'s matching 455 d-port, column shifted TH400, 3.07 12 bolt posi Dual exhaust 14" honeycomb wheels P/S and PDB Y96? suspension with rear sway bar A/C, cruise, gauges, tilt column, sport steering wheel Power windows and locks Factory!!! hood tach - one can tell easily because of the perfect cut-out in the underhood bracing - plus it's on the PHS invoice AM-FM stereo Body colored outside (sport) mirrors - I don't recall if I saw this option on the invoice - one cannot open the vent glass fully because the glass hits the mirrors! I'm sure I've forgotten some other items of interest, but it's probably a "one of one" car! Too bad that it's currently in such bad condition. It IS driveable, and John takes it out for a cruise from time to time. Lots of rust (in all the usual places) and "whiskey dents", but VERY restorable. John has done some research on it's history. Maybe I can talk him into adding more info on this topic. He will be moving up near you soon, Roger - to Bartlesville. With your interest in '71 A-bodies, it would be worth your while to make the trip to see it! Later, Lloyd '72 Formula 455 - TH400, 3.08 posi, A/C, Y99 suspension, tach & gauges, AM-FM stereo, 8-track, Formula steering wheel, etc.; Lucerne Blue with Medium Blue deluxe Interior; 12.96 @ 104 MPH @ the '03 PSN's Someday I'll be restoring a '72 GTO 455HO, TH400, A/C, etc.; Sundance Orange with Parchment buckets |
I bet OPH and I do have the same info. And yes, we all owe a big debt of gratitude to Fred Simmons, who not only compiled these numbers but is also a nice guy!
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Whats Diegos e-mail address?
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A little off-topic, but I just bought a 71 GT-37 with no drive-train, body and glass pretty good. I have figured out some of the numbers on the plate but not all, maybe you could help. Here's the #'s. ST71 23337 PON003029
TR 238 75 75 08D Thanx. |
Well, since OPH has not responded I will with what info I have readily at hand
23337 2 = Pontiac Division 33 = T-37 37 = Hardtop 238 75 75 238 = Optional Sandlewood vinyl bench seat 75 = Cardinal Red Paint Bottom 75 = Cardinal Red Paint Top :-( You will have to wait for OPH or someone else for the rest. JLP |
Yep those are most of the ones I could figure out too. Thanks for the info. I think 08D means built in August (08) the fourth week (D).
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ST71 = ST(Style) 71(year) but I think you already knew that.
PON003029 = PON(assembly plant: Pontiac, MI) 003029(body number, will not match VIN number) You correctly figured out the rest. |
Does anybody know much about the 1970 Pontiac Jury?From what I've red,there a Canadaian car.
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I don't think Diego has any thing that we don't.The Jury was done by a dealer in Western Canada.
http://www.elmrij.net/~mjmshodge/plate.jpg |
Yeah thats what I thought.Thanks
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Looking for a little help for a friend who bought a GT-37 and asked the following questions that I have no clue about...
1970 Tempest--T-37--2 DR. Hardtop. VIN#---233370P230083. 1...How do we find the production number of this model and this car? 2...How many of this model were made ? 3...Why does this cars Front Fenders have T-37 decals and all the restoration cataloges call for metal enblems? Is it one of the first made? We have found only one Decal in 2 years on the internet. Thanks! Dan www.kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DanRuss72GTO.html |
Dan,
Hello in MI. Unfortunately, not much of a breakout between '70 Tempests & the '70 1/2 model T-37's that came out in the Spring of '70. The generally accepted number, is there were a total of 1419 GT-37's built as 2 door hardtops & 2 door posts for '70 1/2. Educated guess is most were hardtops & about 80-90% of production were 350 2bbls, with rest being 400 4bbls & 400 2bbl-automatics. If your friend's GT-37 is factory 400 stick car, it's quite rare. Even 350 2bbl '70 1/2 GT-37's seem to be few & far between, not many survived http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif On the white & black '70 1/2 model T-37 & GT-37 fender decals, that is how the cars came. Have parted a few original paint '70 1/2 T-37's, & somewhere in my old swapper rubbermaid tubs have a GM parts envelope with a few nos T-37 decals. GT-37 decal is same style of block letters. Unfortunately, when the low pressure potmetal reproduction fender emblems were introduced about 10 years ago, they were mislabled, should be '71 usage only. With a Pontiac plant VIN, as big a number as you posted, I'd bet the GT-37 is very late production. Would love to hear more about. |
Thought you would like to finished project - a frame off GT Lemans 455 HO Convertible - 1 of 5 !
Very Highly optioned. (not for sale !) Hope you like it. http://members.aol.com/fdafulton/gtlemans1 |
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What a fantastically gorgeous car. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif Is it a regular or HO car? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif I do like the sword stripe. There was a Gold '72 LeMans GT in Kodiak, AK. It was bought new in '72. Just a 350/350, buckets, console, PS,PB but it had a black stripe. The GT, if I remember right, was further back on the fender like the '71 stripe, but it also was not a T-41 optioned car either.
PS. To all. I will try to get the '70-72 stripe photos to you this week. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_redface.gif Been out of town and will be out of town for about 2 weeks beginning a week from tomorrow. Promise to try to do it this week. My scanner is still down. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif JLP |
Looks sweet Forrest! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif
One question... Have never seen an endura nosed '71 or 72 A-body with factory installed reflective D98 stripes & I correctly reproduced & marketed all styles of the "sword" style stripes for close to 5 years, speaking to hundreds of '72 owners. Did your car not originally have the "9 stripe" decalls in black & red, just wondering? |
Forrest -
Gorgeous car! ---<u>Insert jealousy here.</u>--- TIGER EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection for the Traditional Pontiac Engine. [email protected] |
Hey Guys, this is an original 455 H/O car and has an H/O in it now, also, OPH, the car originally had the same "sword type" stripes but in black, I opted for this color instead,I restored it as exactly as original except for the color of the exterior and a few other options, originally "brittany beige" I may have some pictures of the car before I restored it( it still had the original paint, and sword stripes on it !), I`ll check. thanx for the compliments!!, alot of hard work!!
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Hey OPH, I remember a 1972 Lemans Sport(not a GT) with Endura Styling Option(GTO front) that we sold new that was white with black vinyl top and interior with the as you call'sword' stripe in blue. I am not sure, but might have build sheet for that car.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Forrest:
Hey Guys, this is an original 455 H/O car and has an H/O in it now,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It was my understanding that the 455 badges you have on your car were for 455-4 engines and not the HO. I believe the 455 HO decals should go on the scoops, if not on the front fender? Or this is not true? |
the 455 emblems that are on the fenders were removed from the car before resto( the original emblems were used!) and put back on the exact same spot after painting it, so I know they are correct,and like I said, it was still in it`s original paint, the car only had 74,000 miles on it, it was hit on both sides, and left for dead for many years! are these the emblems you talking about?
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Forrest,
Had the car showed any evidence of ever being repainted when you stripped it? BTW, did you add the wheel opening moldings, just wondering? Bob, Appreciate the info, just chiming in, as all the '72 rubber nose cars I've ever run across or parted that had optional D98 stripes, had the 9 stripe version. It may be possible that the reflective style D98 stripe was substituted due to asm plant being out of "9 stripe" version. Just specualation...def need to run across someone who worked in the plants applying body stripes during '72. |
hey OPH, it definitly was the original paint, it did`nt have the wheel well moldings, nor did it have the rear of the hood and fender stainless moldings, I added the moldings on the wheel openings and left the rear moldings on the hood and fenders off as it originally did`nt have them.nc
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Hey Roger,isn't the solid stripe part of the GT package in '72? I've seen original paint cars like this.I'll try to find pics.
http://www.elmrij.net/~mjmshodge/plate.jpg |
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