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Here is your chance. It is not selling, and that is a fact. Now why is that?
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Here is your chance. It is not selling, and that is a fact. Now why is that?
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A number of things, not just one thing.
1. 1st time getting cars into the country and Pontiac has had teething pains. They will live and learn about it. 2. Lack of advertising. Pontiac should have had a HUGE campaign for this car but they didn't. And as a GM of product development for Camaro said once, each division only gets a certain budget for advertising and when you sell 80K grand ams or 15K GTO's, which do you want to advertise more? That is why you see the GTO being paired with other Pontiacs in it's commercials. 3. Dealers are still not dealing because MANY don't have a huge alotment of cars and they want to squeeze as much money out of them as they can. 4. Styling. Exeterior doesn't excite many people, but there are others that like it because it is subtle. There isn't much to complain about because of the interior. 5. Lack of options and price it is offered at. No dead pedle, no sunroof, etc et all. Other cars that offer just as good performance at the same price are offered with sunroofs, heated seats, navigation, etc. Based on what I have seen with the new STS and Corvette and the V8 GXP Grand Prix coming down the pike, the '07 All NEW VELITE GTO should have addressed all those issues. And FYI, the C6 Corvette will be priced lower than the C5 now. I hope it gets better in '05. Once details were leaked, it is hurting sales of the 04 with people waiting on the HP and styling of the 05. |
how do you expect the GTO to succeed , when you chased off any fans of the new goat that wants to join this forum ?
so basically, you want an answer why the new GTO isn't selling, and thats because of all the negativity, that it doesn't live up to the legend, as soon as everyone stops their whinning, maybe by the '05 model youll have gotten over your crying and complaining. |
To the marketing effort:
I'm channel surfing this morning and run across a show about this "drifting" nonsense. Yep, just as I thought, it's just a ricefest. Anyway, what FACTORY SPONSORED (marketing)vehicle was the star of the show for all these misguided children? The 2004 "GTO"! Who is the target market again? Does Pontiac even know? It gets better! Next I see the teaser for the next "Grandmaster Puff Daddy, Pimp Your Ride" episode. Some poor car is going to get a set of spinner 22's, a big "phat" spoiler, and God only knows what else. Can anyone guess which car it is? A 2004 "GTO". I'm not sure if GM provided the car, but it sure smells like product placement to me. I didn't think Pontiac could do worse with their marketing of the car, but guess what, they did. I guess we can expect a boost in sales from the "get sideways in the high school parking lot" crowd as well as the 'hood. Good job Lutz! |
Posted by GTO_2004:
"how do you expect the GTO to succeed , when you chased off any fans of the new goat that wants to join this forum ? so basically, you want an answer why the new GTO isn't selling, and thats because of all the negativity, that it doesn't live up to the legend, as soon as everyone stops their whinning, maybe by the '05 model youll have gotten over your crying and complaining." You took the words right out of my mouth.... I couldn't have put it better myself! Excellent response to a negative poll. |
why the new GTO isn't selling, and thats because of all the negativity,
So who is negative about this car other than some people on this site? The consumer... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif Let me guess. The .00000005% of the buying market on this site has ruined the car, right?....get real...the car does not sell because of various reasons, but that statement is total bullsh!#... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif Hell, you are even too much of a wimp to even cast a vote. I guess when your opinion counts, all bet's are off.. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif |
yeah sure goathead, whatever, you must have too much time on your hands coming up with new ways to bash the GTO, we all know how you feel, now move along.
http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/shuttup.gif |
It's because most car enthusiasts don't know a performance car if it hit them in the ass. They are to worried about the look, instead of performance. Posers. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 455HOGT37:
To the marketing effort: I'm channel surfing this morning and run across a show about this "drifting" nonsense. Yep, just as I thought, it's just a ricefest. Anyway, what FACTORY SPONSORED (marketing)vehicle was the star of the show for all these misguided children? The 2004 "GTO"! Who is the target market again? Does Pontiac even know? It gets better! Next I see the teaser for the next "Grandmaster Puff Daddy, Pimp Your Ride" episode. Some poor car is going to get a set of spinner 22's, a big "phat" spoiler, and God only knows what else. Can anyone guess which car it is? A 2004 "GTO". I'm not sure if GM provided the car, but it sure smells like product placement to me. I didn't think Pontiac could do worse with their marketing of the car, but guess what, they did. I guess we can expect a boost in sales from the "get sideways in the high school parking lot" crowd as well as the 'hood. Good job Lutz! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Did you notice the Viper also? Probaby not. |
p.s. it's not a holden. it's a pontiac head goat
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http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/shuttup.gif
Like Mick said, "you can't allways get what you want".... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif They are to worried about the look, instead of performance Nick, I thing that consumers want both these days. That's the way it was in the past, and they don't want to stop now... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif |
Goathead posted:
"Hell, you are even too much of a wimp to even cast a vote. I guess when your opinion counts, all bet's are off.." The reason I have not cast a vote is because all the negative choices that you have listed are not pertinent to my opinion. It is not because I or any of the 2004 GTO owners are wimps as you suggest. Why don't you run a poll to ask why the original GTO was discontinued? |
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
Did you notice the Viper also? Probaby not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I didn't catch all of it Nick, but was the Viper also factory provided as a marketing effort? And as long as we are on the subject, do you think this is a worthwile marketing channel for a so called "world class" sports coupe? I am of the opinion that it cheapens the perception of a product that is much better than the ricer crowd. I think it shows how GM can have a good product handed to them, and still screw it up (again). |
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
Goathead posted: "Hell, you are even too much of a wimp to even cast a vote. I guess when your opinion counts, all bet's are off.." The reason I have not cast a vote is because all the negative choices that you have listed are not pertinent to my opinion. It is not because I or any of the 2004 GTO owners are wimps as you suggest. Why don't you run a poll to ask why the original GTO was discontinued? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In case you were still in diapers, or not even thought of yet. The 1974 GTO was based on the smaller "X" body. It was the only year GTO for many things. Some of them- All had functional cold or Ram Air, shaker hood, unitized body, leaf spring rear suspension, only year with 350 engine (also no engine options), hatchback body style, no GTO emblem in left grille. It was a changing world when the '74s were introduced in late '73. After the bad sales of GTOs for a few years (and all muscle cars for that matter), Pontiac tried to appeal to a newer market by downsizing/ lightening the car and used new marketing too. The industry was already hurting and adjusting to changes imposed on them by the government. Things like upcoming mandatory unleaded fuel requirements, 5 mph bumpers (later reduced in the 80s), strict emmissions standards. All those things hurt horsepower/performance and/or added weight. The GTO and performance were not popular words when you had to wait an hour or more to get gas and more expensive gas too! With another poor sales year in '74 , Pontiac axed the GTO. It was still a good car but, facts are facts, if people aren't buying them they can't make money and that is that. The GTO name has been considered countless times since '74 to reappear. I can thank Pontiac for not doing it. Let the name and the legend live as it is. Now the latest word is that Pontiac is bringing back the GTO as a foreign car in '03. Lovely |
It is not because I or any of the 2004 GTO owners are wimps as you suggest.
16 post Ozzy, I said you were acting like a wimp, not all of the '04 owners as you suggest. This post is about why the car is not selling and nothing else. If you cannot read the heading, let someone else do it for you... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif Personally, I pray that GM does not let this car become a disaster, and I hope changes are made swiftly. If things go right, I may even own one by 2006 myself, but there are lot's of variables. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif This post is not about the car itself, but why it isn't selling. Now, if you can stay focused, tell us your opinion on the original subject, if you will..... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif |
Before anything is said, my last post is from the history pages of Pontiac Heaven. Now, no need for a poll. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
_ It is not because I or any of the 2004 GTO owners are wimps as you suggest._ 16 post Ozzy, I said you were acting like a wimp, not all of the '04 owners as you suggest. This post is about why the car is not selling and nothing else. If you cannot read the heading, let someone else do it for you... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif Personally, I pray that GM does not let this car become a disaster, and I hope changes are made swiftly. If things go right, I may even own one by 2006 myself, but there are lot's of variables. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif This post is not about the car itself, but why it isn't selling. Now, if you can stay focused, tell us your opinion on the original subject, if you will..... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Goathead, there does seem to be a few problems with reading comprehension going around. Addmitidly I went off the subject, but hey, I figured I would educate, and avoid another poll http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif. |
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
This post is not about the car itself, but why it isn't selling. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And I, for one, don't think you have proper choices in the poll. Mr_GTO had my thoughts on why sales aren't happening. I am one of the people that had eagerly awaited the new GTO, drove it, was impressed with it, but before I had a chance to do that, was aware that in '05 there were styling and performance changes coming. If you would have created a better poll, one that was not so onesided, you might have had a chance to get some real valid responses. |
Rodgers Pontiac here in town told me they ran 2 04's in the paper for two weeks at $29.000 and not one bite. this was one week ago. He said they had 5 sitting on there back lot I only saw two. He was all too eger for me too drive one of them but the wife said nooooo.
Don |
You crack me up Goathead! I'll give you an A for effort...
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I think it's a combination of two things. The car doesn't have its own identity - it's hard to tell from a grand am without a second look. Second, as some folks have already mentioned, GM doesn't seem to have a clue who to market this to. This car is supposed to be a halo car, not a rice burner.
However, Pontiac's learning. A couple of weeks ago, Pontiac on its website was telling us to compare the car to one of the volkswagens and some other totally different car, I can't even remember what because it was just not something I would ever consider. Now, if you go to the website and click on comparisons, they compare the car to the Mustang Mach 1 and the BMW 330, which IMHO are good cars to compare it to because it has raw power like the mach 1 and refinement like the beemer. They're getting closer to the mark. |
I was going to buy a new GTO and drove one. It had one of the nicest interiors that I have seen in a while. It had plenty if power and handled excellent , no rattles or squeaks. The problem IMO is that they are going after the 3 series BMW crowd with a car that looks a lot like a Grand Am. The people who buy a Lexus, BMW, etc don't even know what a GTO is and in some respects a Pontiac does not give them the illusion of prestige that they are looking for. By ignoring the people who would buy and do know what a GTO, GM is feeling the pain of that mistake with slow sales. Personally I feel it is a nice looking car but I will wait for the restyled one coming soon that looks as if it will pay some respect to the GTO's heritage.
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I wouldn't say they're ignoring them, I'd say they just haven't quite figured out who they are yet.
Personally, I'd hate for the yuppies to discover this car anyway - one of the fun things about owning any muscle car is handing some beemer-driving yuppie his behind when he thought he was going to walk all over you. While BMW makes a great car, I'd guess at least 90% of their sales are status sales - only about 10% of the beemer owners actually appreciate the car's performance. It's those 10% that I think this car can successfully target. |
Apparently you guys haven't seen any of the commercials, print ads, etc? They are marketing towards middle age performance minded folks. Some of us aren't buying because we are PO'd about the way the dealers have tried to gouge the buyer or we can't affford it. Those that have bought are willing to look around theses idiots or have waited until the prices are right. The 04 is a done deal, sales were poor. YEAH, WE KNOW! We'll see how the 05 goes and so on...
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Woa, now that's nice. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif
That stripe is sweet! I'd leave the Judge off though, the stripe is enough. The best thing is it's more 70 than 69! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif |
Whiners!!!
Nick, if the '05 looks like that and has a LS6 in it, I'll wine all the way to the bank and get on as soon as possible...but I know I am dreaming... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif PS: It doesn't need the stripe, just the lines, ut either will do... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif |
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
_Whiners!!! _ Nick, if the '05 looks like that and has a LS6 in it, I'll wine all the way to the bank and get on as soon as possible...but I know I am dreaming... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif PS: It doesn't need the stripe, just the lines, ut either will do... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It would be nice if the 05 GTO was available in that color with that stripe option. We do know it will have the 400HP LS2 though. I think I'm gonna get that stripe painted on my 04 GTO. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif |
So where did the pic orginate? A weekend warrior photochop or somewhere more viable?
The more I look, the more I like. |
Here is a link to where I saw it on the Hot Rod buildup http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/113_0406_gto/
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Humbler:
I have seen all of the print ads and TV commercials that Pontiac has run recently and they are trying to market the car to performance minded people now but middle aged? Then why the Pontiac sponsored drifter car they are campaigning, sounds like the Too Fast Too Furious crowd to me. I have it from an internal source that the GTO was to be geared and marketed to the BMW 3 series, Lexus, etc crowd ( which I believe the GTO is a good comparison to the 3 series Beemer) They really were not looking to market the car to people who have owned GTO's in the past and now I think they are realizing that the initial target market should be the people who know what a GTO is. As far as price gouging I know a few dealerships around here that are willing to deal so that the GTO's don't sit and eat up their floor plan. I am not whining as I stated before I was going to buy one and really like the handling and power,and it's a decent looking car, but to have to buy a new hood and a body kit to make the car look more like a GTO should is ludicris, I can't wait for the 05 or 06 GTO. I also agree with you that they should not reinstate The Judge option just add a stripe like on the above rendition. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif |
Definitely like the judge rendition. The styling cues are more enhancements to the car's lines, rather than distractions. Lowered suspension, big rims, and slight changes to the front. The hood scoop even fits the lines of the car, something I didn't think you could do. I still don't want one, but I have to complement the artist - he really knows his stuff. The only thing I really dislike is the tach on the hood. I know it was a styling cue on the original, but it breaks up the line of the car too much for my taste. Same for the graphic on the front quarter panel. Nice picture.
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So, if the non believers and the believers on this site agree on the cosmetic appeal of this desigh, why can't GM snap? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif
In the past, Muscle cars were know to be a mid size car with the top of the line engine in it. Where is the top of the line engine? Not where it belongs... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif |
I think it looks kinda A like a civic, or an import car. Just my thoughts. It could have been a tad more sportier.
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Sorry, if the only way to get the 400hp is to get that butt-ugly retro-stripe and Judge badging, I might have to check out the '05 Charger...
I'm not in love with the past, when cars were heavy, not fuel efficient, didn't handle all that well and had lots of stickers and odd paint jobs. I'll take the Pontiac Monaro in stealth mode trim... |
'05 Charger...
You talking about this Hemi powered dog? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://www.modernracer.com/spyshots/...gecharger2.jpg http://www.modernracer.com/spyshots/...gecharger1.jpg It's not retro, it's got a style of it's own, works for me... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif |
damn, that 05 Charger sure looks good, it has a bad ass look to it, a look that a muscle car should have. nice find there Goathead
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goathead:
_'05 Charger..._ You talking about this Hemi powered dog? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif Well, that's the "old" version of the new version. That particular Charger, which is a looker in person (I saw it at the LA auto show a few years ago), was powered by a natural gas engine. The "new" new version will look a lot like the new Dodge Magnum except for the rear end, of course. But then, maybe people will scream it doesn't look enough like a Super Bird or something... until some aftermarket company comes out with a huge wing and a "meep meep" horn. Or maybe some will wait until they come out with the R/T version a year later... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif |
Charlzm, this one is supposto be the real thing... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif
2006 Dodge Charger On Sale : Early 2005 A rear-drive sedan with a design completely opposite that of its previous design philosophy. This car has long hood, low profile and tons of V8 power courtesy of an all-new Hemi powerhouse. A lower V6 model may also be offered, along with possible coupe and all-wheel-drive variations. Of course, it also packs numerous Mercedes Benz parts |
I saw this exact Charger concept at the LA Auto show in January 2000. It had previously been seen at the Detroit show in January of 1999, meaning it was developed in 1997 and 1998. It was powered by a supercharged, compressed natural gas engine and was a total one-off concept.
At that time, Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge/Jeep (note the lack of Daimler in there) had no rear-drive platforms to base the vehicle on. They also did another one-off design based on the same concept called the Venom. Now that Daimler/Chrysler has the rear drive platform that will allow a Charger to be built, the dimensions and body shape of the concept will not be able to carry over without a redesign. Attached is one person's concept of what the new Charger will look like based on the dimensions of the 300C and the Magnum wagon. I recall reading in one fo the car mags that the Charger will have to be fairly inexpensive to develop and needs to be done quickly (remind anyone of the current GTO situation?). This means minimal changes to drivetrain, sheetmetal, suspension, etc... for budgetary reasons alone, I think the Popular Hot Rodding magazine concept is probably a lot closer to what we'll see than the old 1998 concept. Here is the article that accompanies the photo: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...0404phr_dodge/ |
Apparently, according to Jeff Koch in the latest issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines, the reason the new GTO is not selling well is because of forums like this.
He has quite a bit to say (negatively) about people on these forums who do not like the new GTO. We're "cyber-snits", "whiners", "uninformed" and "crybabies". His editorial approach is typical of someone who is trying to convince other's that they are wrong and he is right. First, he tries to explain how those who dislike the car have never driven it. Why does this keep coming up? If we drive it will that somehow make us forget how ugly, dull and boring the car REALLY is? Does anybody REALLY buy a car strictly because it's fast? Speaking of fast, is it REALLY fast compared to anything else in it's price range? Is it faster than the F-Body that GM killed? Does it have ALL the performance features one would expect from something called a "GTO"? I especially like how he tries to blame the obvious short-comings on other reasons or people. Such as the lack of a hood scoop being the fault of the Government (hmmm, gov't conspiracy??). Yet, despite how PMD publicized this new car from the start and Lutz said it didn't need any 'retro' styling, they are adding a hood scoop and other changes for '05. Why? Could it be they realize the pursuist's are right? As for it not looking like a GTO. He tries to convince us that this is what the old GTO would have evolved into. Say's who? Look at the new Mustang or ANY Mustang for that matter. It has ALWAYS continued to look like a Mustang. Had the powers-that be heard the people, they would have included enough subtle styling hints to make this a truely awesome car that deserves to wear the GTO name. No one is expecting a clone of any particular year of the GTO; just enough to make it stand-out which it does not. So, if Jeff reads this forum, perhaps he'll realize that the people have spoken and if GM plans on having any success in the future with this new GTO or anything else, they'll pay attention to what the people want. I've heard that PMD actually had a session during the GTO Nat's to hear what the people wanted in the future. We shall see. In the meantime, all who embrace the new GTO as if it's the greatest thing since sliced bread; Enjoy. There are plenty for all of you. When they get it right, maybe then I'll consider plunking down $30k+. |
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlzm:
I saw this exact Charger concept at the LA Auto show in January 2000. It had previously been seen at the Detroit show in January of 1999, meaning it was developed in 1997 and 1998. It was powered by a supercharged, compressed natural gas engine and was a total one-off concept. At that time, Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge/Jeep (note the lack of Daimler in there) had no rear-drive platforms to base the vehicle on. They also did another one-off design based on the same concept called the Venom. Now that Daimler/Chrysler has the rear drive platform that will allow a Charger to be built, the dimensions and body shape of the concept will not be able to carry over without a redesign. Attached is one person's concept of what the new Charger will look like based on the dimensions of the 300C and the Magnum wagon. I recall reading in one fo the car mags that the Charger will have to be fairly inexpensive to develop and needs to be done quickly (remind anyone of the current GTO situation?). This means minimal changes to drivetrain, sheetmetal, suspension, etc... for budgetary reasons alone, I think the Popular Hot Rodding magazine concept is probably a lot closer to what we'll see than the old 1998 concept. Here is the article that accompanies the photo: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...0404phr_dodge/ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> that looks like ****, it's like a mix of the crossfire(i think) and a ptcruiser front. |
The WHO:
Then maybe these guys will have terrible sales, too. Then GM and Daimler/Chrysler will hold a joint press conference, tell the world that, despite the widespread notion that people wanted rear drive performance V8s, the poor sales of the GTO and Charger prove that this is not what the public really wants. Then they'll introduce more hybrids and FWD 4 bangers and tall wagons trying to pass themselves off as mini-SUVs that do 0-to-60 in just under 8 seconds. And then all those people who think of cars as appliances instead of vehicles to transport the dreams and very souls of those who answer the call of the road will have finally won. Whew! And most of the users of these forums can continue to keep their old 1960's and 1970's cars running as they shake their heads and say, "if they had just put hood scoops on like I told them, the car would've sold 100,000 units a year." Melodrama provided free of charge! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif |
We're "cyber-snits", "whiners", "uninformed" and "crybabies".
Don't forget, we are consumers with cash as well. Now, if you can't see the forest for the tres, better sell your axe... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif Get with the program and read the results of this surey. The majority say's the car looks like s#!t... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif Us "cyber-snits" did not design this car, Holden did, and GM just rebadged it and forced it down our throats, and most did not like it. I HAVE DRIVEN THIS CAR, and although it is pretty quick, I did not buy it just because it did not turn me on cosmetically, it was not the quickest thing on the road, the rear seats access sucks, and the price is way too high for a car of it's class. Once again, the original Pontiac theory on muscle cars was to put the badest engine they had into a light midsize chassis. This is by far not the badest engine they make, so what's the deal there? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif Why is it so hard to face the basic facts, this car is a failure. What they do from here is either self distruct, or snap to the "winers" desires and sell cars. Why it is a failure is only opinion, but the numbers say it is, and in the car business, that's what counts, bottom line... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif |
So Danny, what WOULD you buy? I don't know of any car that meets your criteria. Isn't that why most of us have more than one car?
I had a GTP(roomy,fast), TA(handles, real fast), a Kawasaki 750 Vulcan and a Ford Probe(work car). They pretty much covered all my vehicle wants and needs. Could use a small truck but can't afford one. The one that gets me the most is "the price is way too high for a car of it's class". I'm not shootin' at you, many people have said the same thing. Can anyone name ANY other car this fast, room for 4 adults, excellent quality, with a low to mid $30K price? Personally I think the bland look is the major selling problem. That and people always want somethin' for nuthin' and ain't willin' to pay for more. By the way, I live in Germany and BMW's ain't all that. And they're UGLY! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_razz.gif |
[URL=By the way, I live in Germany and BMW's ain't all that. And they're UGLY]
LOL, go.it rid of one 2 years ago.. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_razz.gif My Vehicles are: '65 GTO '67 GTO '69 GTO '00 Chevy 3500 work van '04 Ford F250 Super Duty '04 Toyota Highlander And it's just me, Nico and the wife... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif I do buy cars, and I like buying cars, but to be honest with you, if I were buying right now I would buy a Mustang, but I would rather wait on the new version of the (you guessed it) GTO.... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif |
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