or was it put on other A bodies in 70. I would guess that it could be special ordered if not commonly put on non Judges? I understand it's about the least common 70 color, but most common on 70 Judge.

or was it put on other A bodies in 70. I would guess that it could be special ordered if not commonly put on non Judges? I understand it's about the least common 70 color, but most common on 70 Judge.

I have Orbit Orange and it's not a Judge...

What is your paint code though? Is it a special code or ?

It says TT on the PHS-documentation. Special code, what's that? Could it be Solid Specl SPS? or what stands that for? I don't really know.

It's not a Judge only color, but it is very uncommon to see it on a regular GTO. I've only found 1 in the last 10 years or so.
('70 GTO 455 4spd)

It's kind of like the Carousel Red color for '69 Judges. It was mostly a Judge color and very rare to see it on a regular GTO.

The last couple of years I started to count the different colors of documented Judges that I've come across. I counted your car too. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Thanks guys. TT would be factory ordered color. I forgot that we talked about your car having the backwards paint code (like mine) until now, but I thought your car was a Judge. Some cars had a special code when it was not one of the standard colors to choose from--but one that could be special ordered. Usually found on the data plate or ?

So Orbit is the least common color for GTO in 70, but the most common for Judge.
Thanks,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
So Orbit is the least common color for GTO in 70, but the most common for Judge.
Thanks, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, It seems that Polar White is the most common color. I was told that the '70 Judge color was originally Polar White (like '69 was Carousel Red), but it didn't sell well at all. So they came up with Orbit Orange and sales improved significantly.

You may have noticed that just about all of the sales brochures and advertising from GM for '70 Judges featured Polar White cars. It was supposed to be "the" color for 1970.

I believe OO was a Judge-only color. Anything else would have to be special ordered.

I also don't believe that white was the signature color for the Judge in 1970. Just because it was used in ads and promo pics doesn't prove that. After all, white was not significant color in 1970, but there was an option of having black trim on white cars, and maybe this color was used to showcase this. But white is the most sanitary of colors, and I can't imagine how this would be good to build a wild image of a car.

There were 618 GTOs painted Orbit Orange (color code T) in 1970. Orbit Orange was supposed to be a color exclusive to The Judge, but as your car proves, it was available as a stock color on any GTO. Special Paint Options (SPO) was not an option available for the GTO because of the special manufacturing and inventory considerations regarding the Endura front bumper. The fact that exact paint production figures for the entire '70 GTO run of 40,149 are published bears this out. Has anyone out there ever seen anything but a two-letter code on a 1970 GTO's Fisher Body tag? The best person to confirm this paint code question is Jim Mattison at PHS. He has seen more paperwork on these cars than anyone else. OO was not a paint color code for 1970. Atoll Blue was the most popular GTO color in '70; Polar White was 8th out of 16.

Thought we all went over this before.

To date, have run across two '70 GTO's & one '71 GTO that were factory Orbit Orange & all were non Judges.

To add, "OO" means Orbit Orange, not a color code.

Also, I know of a Goldenrod Yellow Judge that was built. It's not in the production list. Have you ever added up all the colors and see how it compared to GTO production?

Despite Polar White being 8th on the list, it's close to #1 for Judges. I think red white blue are the most popular colors as well as "OO."

Sorry SpartanMSU, misunderstood your reference to "OO." I'm back on track now.

Here are the 1970 GTO color production numbers:
Atoll Blue - 4,980
Granada Gold - 4,664
Cardinal Red - 3,777
Pepper Green - 3,661
Verdoro Green - 3,299
Sierra Yellow - 2,889
Palisade Green - 2,487
Polar White - 2,460
Palladium Silver - 2,394
Baja Gold - 2,067
Bermuda Blue - 1,861
Starlight Black - 1,515
Palomino Copper - 1,457
Burgandy - 1,246
Mint Turquoise - 774
Orbit Orange - 618
Total - 40,149

No Goldenrod Yellow GTOs. Is there any PMD documentation for this special order color?

There's a guy in PA who has one. It's a RAIV car too. He hangs out in the Yenko site on occasion.

Orbit is the least common color for GTO. There were about 3700 Judges built for '70, but obviously less than 618 Judges were Orbit because it wasn't a Judge only color. So, the other colors make up the other 80 percent or so of Judge production.

OO indeed was a Judge-only color.

That Goldenrod Yellow GTO is certainly a mystery. Unless there is some sort of PMD sourced documentation for the special order paint color, I'd be very suspicious of its color's origin. The car could have been repainted by the original dealer before the first buyer even took possession of the car.

The manufacture of the Endura bumper was the bug in the batter as far as a factory ordered special paint for the '68-'72 GTOs. There were some mid-years colors that became available in the Pontiac line-up during that time period. For '68 Pink Mist, Windward Blue, Carnival Red, and Marigold Yellow were made available on March 29. The only way you could get this color on a GTO was by ordering the Endura delete option as well. An Endura delete, Pink Mist GTO would be an interesting sight! Orbit Orange was also a mid-year offering; part of the reason that it was the lowest in production. In this case, the color was specific to the GTO/Judge, so the vendor that maunfactured the bumper for PMD was able to supply this color. Asking any vendor to produce other special-order-color bumpers on a one-by-one basis would have been cost prohibitive and a paperwork nightmare that PMD didn't want to deal with.

I have talked to an original owner of a '72 455HO sedan. He ordered the car in Starlight Black, and it arrived at the dealership with a primered front bumper.

"Orbit Orange was also a mid-year offering; part of the reason that it was the lowest in production"


My car was shipped 12-10-69. The color is Orbit Orange and it's no Judge. All PHS-documented.

To add to Tommy's, the reason why OO is so rare is that it was only available as an RPO on Judges. But, when the 3500 or so Judges are factored in, the color doesn't seem so rare. I see plenty of Judges, and it's completely believable to me that 1/6 of Judges are OO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SpartanMSU:
OO indeed was a Judge-only color. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My car has Orbit Orange and as I had said before it's not a Judge.

The fact that your car came with OO does not dismiss the fact that OO was a Judge-only color.

Not sure what that means, but his car is originally Orbit Orange from the Pontiac plant. Are you inferring that it's a customer order of a Judge color?

Maybe you're inferring something. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif What I am saying - maybe implying too! - is that the color is not RPO for the GTO. A customer needed to special-order the color on a GTO, like any non-standard color. The color normally was Judge-only.

The same was for Carousel Red for GTOs. There is a handful of GTOs painted this color.

I gotcha now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SpartanMSU:
Maybe you're inferring something. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif What I am saying - maybe implying too! - is that the color is not RPO for the GTO. A customer needed to special-order the color on a GTO, like any non-standard color. The color normally was Judge-only.

The same was for Carousel Red for GTOs. There is a handful of GTOs painted this color. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now I understand what you mean. After looking at some papers I have I can also agree with you. In this paper there is no choice for OO for the regular GTO. So I guess is special ordered. Could "SOLID SPECL" means that?

I presume it means monotone special-ordered, but I can't say for sure.

I'm not entirely convinced that Carousel Red or Orbit Orange was considered The-Judge-only, or even special-order on the GTO. If you look on the Fisher Body tag for a GTO (w/o The Judge) that was ordered with these colors, would that tag read spec, ***, ---, 2, 4, 0-0, or would it have the 72 or 06 codes imprinted? What does an OO The Judge have on its Fisher Body tag? If it is 06, then OO is not a special order color for the GTO, since The Judge is in itself only an option on the GTO model. I'm thinking that the 72 and 06 colors were only marketed and intended to be The Judge specific, not mandated.

PonchoV8, what does the body tag on that non-Judge "OO" GTO read for paint?

The code is actually 60 for Orbit Orange, but TommyHG's '70 non-Judge has 06 for a paint code as does my '70 Judge. It's a mistake done at the Pontiac plant where both our cars were built.

To me it doesn't seem it's a Judge only color. More correctly, it's a mostly Judge color. And if anybody could sit down and order the color off a chart, is it really special?

Since your Judge does have the 06/60 paint code, I consider OO a standard color for the entire GTO line. However, it may have required Zone approval to order the color on anything other than a GTO with The Judge option.

Still like to find out what the non-Judge OO car had on the body tag for paint code.

Like I posted above, the non Judge car has the same 06 06 code (just like my car). Here's the thread.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...5472#396105472

In most cases, a special-ordered color will have dashes in the paint code.

I also know some extra-cost colors, like Rallye Red on the Olds 4-4-2, that had dashes.

In other words, I don't know the rhyme or reason why the OO GTO and the RR Olds buck the prevailing wisdom. And, with that, I still don't believe OO was a normal color available on the standard GTO.

Sebring Yellow used on '70 Olds Rallye 350's also had the "- -" paint code on the trim tag. I always found this odd as it was the only colour the car came in and the colour does indeed have a paint code.

I knew a guy who bought a brand new RAIV Orbit Orange GTO in 1970. I can't remember the time of build.

My experience with Pontiacs is that a "special order" color (i.e. not otherwise a Pontiac listed color) would have dashes for the paint code but "extra cost" colors w(i.e. windward on a GTO or Expresso on a Firebird in 69 for example) would have the normal letter code.

Endura cars were available with extra cost but not special order paint as a rule.

Yes, that is what it means.
Extra charge for that color on your car.
Just like a 69 GTO ordered in Carousel Red.

I agree with all of that mostly.
And as always, there are seldom seen exceptions on rules too.

Dr.Doug has/or/had a PHS documented 70 Judge with - - data plate code and extra cost paint option. It was some kind of alligator green. Sold in Florida new.

RoundportPoncho has a PHS documented 70 Judge with - - data plate code and extra cost paint option. It is documented/verified Daytona Yellow (like a 69 camaro).

If you were at the right dealership with the right salesman/sales manager - i guess you could get things like this done ... sometimes.

I don't have either of those cars documents/pix of data plates handy on this comp ... but there were threads in the past that had all the info on them.

Um, Goldenrod Yellow (like a '70 Firebird). :)

Well that lying dog
Should take him out back and shoot him in the arse !

He aint sucha bad guy really tho :p

But he did proclaim it as Daytona Yellow
And seems like he had original owner's statement on it, or paperwork, sumpn. :confused:

GoldenRod would have "probably"/ "more than likely" carried a code on the data tag for paint, instead of - -.

Ram4 4spd Judge #s
I've got cowl tag pic, pics of car, and buildsheet, on a crashed comp.

DrDougs is/was Ram3 4spd #s
I've got ""same as above""

I don't think the "- -" is a cut-and-dry issue. Take a look at Oldsmobiles and see how they indicated extra-cost colors. Of course, different GM companies handled similar circumstances in different manners, so it may not be a good comparison. But since the same color on the Firebird was called Goldenrod, it only makes sense to call it the same for the GTO per the color chips.

I didn't even know daytona yellow was also a 70 color for Chevy.
oops ... thoughted it was just a 69'er.

And didn't know daytona and goldnerod were same color code/formula either.
Not doing too well for a veteran auto refinisher today.

Going by that - i see what you mean now. i think
Like calling a 69 Judge, Hugger Orange instead of Carousel Red.

A good local friend owns an Olds with special paint.
It has SPECIAL spelled out on data tag for paint code.
73 442 455cid 4spd A/C, + more

I have production figures for '73 Olds stick cars. Get in touch with me and I'd be happy to learn more about your friend's car and show him something that he didn't know before.

That would be Super Cool about info on the 73 !!

Original owner sold it to a guy - who then quickly flipped it - to my friends oldest son - for a $500 profit - around 86 or 87. (@ $2500)
I told him if he didn't buy it for $2500 - I WOULD !!
Car was bone stock all original down to the carb and wire wheel covers.
No rust anywhere nor previous wreck damage.

My friend (Jim) acquired it from his son (Greg) a couple/few years later through a barter deal. Greg had wrecked the car on driver door by sliding it sideways into a telephone pole. And it sat for almost a year.

We frame-on restored it in 89 or 90.
We are both veteran paint&body techs.
Was still wearing its tired factory paint, and showing over 100k miles.
Turned out very excellent top to bottom.
Was a regularly driven car that we also took to the more prestigious multi-make car shows in the area. Won a lot of very tall trophies.

Then there was an Olds Southern Nationals in Tanglewood NC in early'ish 90's.
Took first in class, and also won the President's Choice award out of the entire field.
Car was a big hit there.
President estimated less than 50 built, at most.
With its drivetrain/equipment and paint code, he said it was truely 1 of a kind.
Some skeptism arose about the radiator having a fan shroud, from a fellow 73 442 350cid non-air automatic owner, whose did not have one.
Surely it was original, and correct.
And surely we were not going to remove it.

Few years later there was an Olds Nationals in Greensboro NC (1994-95-96 range?).
Car had started getting a little bit more road wear from driving by then.
But told him it HAD TO GO to the Nationals.
Still took 2nd in class to a very very pristine 76 or 77 442 350cid auto.
Car drew a lot of attention there also.
Some skeptism arose about the engine having "K" heads.
Was said they are for 72 W30 service replacements - and Marine use.
As far as we know - they are original.

That was its last showing.
Its been sitting garaged silently for about the past 10 years.
And still in fantastic shape.

I did add a few interior options to the car during the resto, and some color matched SSII 15" wheels.
But its factory 442 455 4spd A/C - Red - with a few other factory options as built.
Is strange why the orig owner needed a special ordered Solid Red.
But regardless, thats the deal on it.

I'll send you a PM later this evening with more details of car.
Thanks !

Sent you an email. If you did not receive it, please send me a PM.

Got it Diego, thanks Man. Will get the VIN soon.

Sorry for jacking this thread so hard folks. lol
Diego is first person i've ever found who knew anything good about 73 442's.
I got excited and stuff and carried away.

For the rest of the folks: I visited the GM Historical Center (or whatever it's called) with some Olds friends and went through some unpublished records. Of course, we were curious about W33, W27, etc. but also dug up some '73 numbers because I thought it would be interesting to find out the stick shift and 455 numbers. They don't have anything on Pontiacs that isn't at PHS or floating on the Internet.