Here are some shots of the new system.

Other side.

On car, under pass side.

Undercar, driver's side

And here is the key. This is driver's side looking directly across chassis; note lack of anything hanging?

Rear shot with car 31" high.

Undercar to show pipe configuration from muffler forward.

Final shot shows from front of car, underneath, to rear. Note pipes go up as they traverse from front to rear?

Excellent Tom!!!
Where do I send the loot?

We shall all hope PY/Pypes will take all the loot they can get for this setup!

These pipes will back at PY/Pypes for engineering evaluation later this week so maybe soon, Chris can let us know something.

I think it would be good for anyone interested to drop Pypes or PY a note and let Chris and Mike Zimmerman know.

Looks nice. What does it sound like?

Joe:

I spoke with Tom this afternoon and he said that the system is not too quiet and not too loud. It is just right. I for one can hardly wait for this system to be produced.

Chris: If you're listening, build it and they will come.

Another for Chris and Mike.....
The sooner the better!!!

The chrome exhaust extensions are too low because the tailpipes were deliberately cut long on the prototype pipes. Joe and Tom did a very nice job of engineering and fabricating the system despite less than ideal conditions. Let's hope that Pypes will follow through and manufacture/market it. The only negative was I need to clean up my garage before Tom starts taking pictures!

Bob Chumley

This looks great. I will be purchasing one this spring. I hope Pypes will have them ready by then.
Great job Tom, et al!

Those photos look fantastic!! I wonder how they would work with Ron's new Tri-Y headers that are coming out? Would Pypes do a version with an X-pipe, or would that hang down? I'm definitely interested in buying a set or two when available.

Funny you should mention the X. When Joe and Bob and I assembled it, we used the dimensions from the narrow X setup Pypes sells to fit F-bodies. That has a 4.25" to 4.875" spacing between rear pipes and we used 4.5" to 4.875" as our target.

With one side having a couple more bends in the tailpipes than the other side, I think the X will do wonders for sound and for balancing the backpressure the engine sees. I think it is well worth putting one on at the same time and we plan to add one to this 70 Firebird when the pipes come back from Pypes/PY.

The X should swap right in with the section between the over-the-axle pipes seen in the photos above and the "manifold back" pipes that hook to the manifolds or headers.

I think the ultimate street exhaust for moderate to high HP engines will be the Try-y headers with 3" pipes from the X into reducers into this setup. More street usage or slightly lower HP engines should use 2.5" back. Both should flow well and sound great plus give pretty much all the benefits one could hope for out of a street-strip configuration.

One more question. Are you planning on 3" inlet and 2.5" outlets for the transverse muffler? or is it going to be 2.5" inlets and outlets?

It is tough to find a 2.5" one, 3.0" is virtually impossible. For now, 2.5" is the only one being considered.

Its a very high quality and clean looking system. Does anyone make this system at all? I don't recall Flowmaster or Dynomax making this kind of setup. I know Flowmaster makes the muffler but I don't think they have the pipes.

First, thanks for the compliments Joe.

No one makes such a thing and that is why most F-bodies have had to use undercar mufflers or the Flowmaster one.

This one provides great sound, low sound level, and great airflow as well as stock ground clearance (which is really needed with today's trend towards lowering).

With this muffler, it sounds as good as Ultra-Flows do on GTOs; not too loud, not too quiet with no crackling or resonation that will tend to drone you to death.

I am very excited about this and hope it can be produced soon enough.

Looks damn good Tom! It would be weird (in a good way!) to drive a lowered first gen without the pipes dragging on speed bumps :-)

Mike M

Mike, I agree that driving over speed bumps without a care is a good thing! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif. These will do it.

Don't have an early F car (yet) but I know all about the low car scraping deal. I cringe every time I go over a speed bump in my Bonnevilles. Always waiting for that SCRAAAAAAAAAAAAPPE. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_redface.gif

I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I didn't have to worry about that.

Now we're cooking Tom!

Chris, are you listening??? We NEED this system - and soon!

Super to find this muffler and fabricate the over-axle and tail pipe to make it work! Kudos once again to Tom Hand and his friends willing to prototype the system on their cars!

Chris - please work with Tom and get this done ASAP! PLEASE!

I wanna get it installed on my blue Formula in time to run some 12.50's at the 2005 PSN's!

Chris, are you listening?

Many thanks once again.

Lloyd, the box will be on the FedEx to PY/Pypes Wednesday evening so by next week, it should be safely in PA. Then, the PY/Pypes team can assemble it onto their test vehicles and determine feasiblity. We shall hope for the best.

I concur with Llyod.Please Pypes make this system. I want one for the summer cruising season.

Come on, Chris - Tom has once again spent MANY hours of his time researching and fabricating the prototype system. PLEASE make this one happen.

Oh, and don't forget - please utilize the UltraFlow muffler as well!

TIA.

I promise this prototype system will be tested in December and I should have an answer on whether it is feasible to reproduce by mid January. In the meantime, Mike Z is taking pre-orders(no money up front required) because we need at least 15 of you who want this type of system to be able to justify putting it into production. So spread the word. You might need to get the Chev guys interested if we can't get 15 Pontiacers by mid January.

e-mail [email protected]

I emailed Mike Z and let him know that I'm definitely interested also. The Flowmaster crossflow system that I currently have leaves plenty to be desired.

How many interested parties does that give us?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ccass:
I promise this prototype system will be tested in December and I should have an answer on whether it is feasible to reproduce by mid January. In the meantime, Mike Z is taking pre-orders(no money up front required) because we need at least 15 of you who want this type of system to be able to justify putting it into production. So spread the word. You might need to get the Chev guys interested if we can't get 15 Pontiacers by mid January.

e-mail [email protected] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mucho thanks, Chris!

This system will be a "home run" for those who need a free flowing 2nd gen Firebird or Camaro system, but still want to have OEM appearance and ground clearance.

I'll be sending Mike an e-mail today.

Thanks Chris!

This system will be the key to completing your already vast product line for 2nd Gen F-bodies. I have already sent my pre order to Mike. As you know, I have been waiting for this for a long time.

Keep up the great work.

Is this going to be available for us 1st gen guys also ???

ya! what 67 455 bird ragtop said! since mine is almost 1" lower, id like to keep my 67 bird looking factory. ho manifolds with x/over pype's & crossflow muff. ya baby!!!

67 and Poncho, I bet it will work because the tailppipes will fit your cars and the muffler is very similar in size to the OEM one. I think yours were 20 to 21" versions, I'll check later and report back. It will be good for PYPES to have this checked so others like you can run this setup.
Tom

Flowmaster makes a setup similar to this with a transverse muffler. I have it installed on my 73.

73, it is not quite the same. Theirs uses the typical Flowmaster baffled muffler, paired in a side by side fashion.

In the setup (in the photos) use of a packed, dual, straight through muffler (like the Ultra-Flo in the photos) can provide the tone without so much of the noise and as a bonus, the airflow is increased significantly.

I agree with you that for years, the 2.5" Flowmaster has been the only real transverse 2.5" muffler around. Testing has indicated it is not as good though at passing a lot of exhaust mainly due to the way it is packed tightly internally to get the sound and the tone Flowmasters are known for. This is not meant to be negative because, as in all muffler situations, people should select them based on personal preferences in sound, sound level, tone and price http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif.

We hope this one offers another option and based on what I've seen and heard so far, it should.

I wish we were closer. I'd love to do a comparison, sound & HP, between the two.

I agree with you 73TA; it would be great to see a test and I am betting that we can eventually find some folks to test this system with the new Try-Y headers.

I have heard this 17276 Ultra-Flo on a Firebird and I have heard the Flowmasters, both versions, on another Firebird and I can tell you this one sounds like the Ultra-Flo 17288 (9?) mufflers recorded on the Silent Power CD. With the X crossover, I am betting it will sound exactly like the 17288 (9?) mufflers on the CD and on Dad's car except a little louder at high RPMs since each flow path has only half the volume of sound absorbing material.

Attn: Mike and Chris....

With the overwhelming sales and response to Ron's new Tri-y's, I'm sure you will have the same success, if this prototype is ever produced for market.
There are too many folks out there with ground clearance issues(G-machines), than 15 sets will accomodate.

Tom & Larry,
Thanks for the Plug on the headers. I'm also thinking of the Crossflow for my Formula455. I'm hoping that there can be a package deal on a complete "Tri-y/Pype's Crossflow system" package in the near future.

Larry did you find out anything on the coating? I'm going tomarrow to pick up some headers & I could drop yours off at the same time.

Ron

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Hand:
67 and Poncho, I bet it will work because the tailppipes will fit your cars and the muffler is very similar in size to the OEM one. I think yours were 20 to 21" versions, I'll check later and report back. It will be good for PYPES to have this checked so others like you can run this setup.
Tom <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Tom i hope you dont mined my asking but here is my question . Im building a pro-touring gmashine 68 firebird race monster powerd by a 462 p-body engine i was /still planning on going fore a py 3 inch system then afther the mufflers useing reduser cones to 2.1/5 inch to make sure it will fit and have enoughf clearens for my 2 inch lowerd car, WILL this work of art of yours fit the 2 inch drop!! last but not least i have a mini tub system in the car and the rear leaf/shock are relocated 3 inch inwards(pictures can be seen on suspention form prodject full metal jacket) can the end pipes be cut fore a more inward fit ..(forgive my spelling) David PS Ron de headers will finnaly arive on monday ore thusday(p-bodys help) also any news on the tri y headers dyno results!!!!!

RRDave,
You know, I am betting it can be made to fit but you may need to use a shorter muffler. I think Magnaflow and Goerlich's and maybe PYPEs makes an 18" muffler that will let you pull the taipipes inward 1.5" each side to clear the frame. However, it may fit now, I'm just not sure how close the tailpipes fit on a 68. Be worth trying for sure.

Responding to an earlier post about the Flowmaster tranverse setup. I put thier system on my 71 T/A, and it noticeably "choked" the motor. Definitely cut down on throtle response. I have set of tri-y's coming, and combined with a good flowing muffler, should be sweet!

As promised, here are the dimensions for the 67-69 Firebird and 70 and later Firebird mufflers. These are from my mid 70's Walker Muffler replacement book and it has proven to be accurate.

67-69 4" by 9.75" by 19" shell
70-later 4" by 10.5" by 22.625" shell
17276 UF 4.25" by 9.75" by 20" shell

I cannot tell you if the frame dimensions are similar but based on the dimensions I see, I bet the UF used or the muffler PYPEs chooses to manufacture or use, will be similar and should be adaptable.

Depending upon work load, the Pypes folks were going to try to fit the system on their test 76 Firebird the week of the 13th. Let's hope their workloads enable them to do it this week http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif.
Tom

wi never cared for the flowmasters myself, kind of partial to walker dynomax brand. anyhow, i will be purchasing a kit when available. i'm 90% sure i can make it work on my 67 bird. thank's everyone. just remembered, ray cox is going to restore a 67 bird convertible & a 70 ta, i'll make sure he hears about it to.

Few questions...

Will the Dynamax 17276 UF def be used for the 2nd Gen set-up?

Will the 17276 UF also be able to be fitted with PY pypes under a '67-69 F-body or will one need to use the narrower Dynomax crossflow?

Will be at LEAST interested in, & ready to buy the following for early 2nd Gen Bird:
-three sets of over the axle & three sets of tailpipes pipes.

Depending on pkg prices, may be interested in 3 complete set-ups complete with the crossflow mufflers.

Measured an nos tip & believe answered my own question... looks like the nos tips will go on e-Bay.

Looking again at the pics, appears the tailpipe tips are designed to slip over the 2.5" tailpipes. Am assuming these will not be welded on the tailpipes & then the tip being plated.

E-mail Mike @ PYPES and let him know that you are a potential customer. We need all the help we can get.

[email protected]