Hello all, I am going to need some advise for my 350 build up. From reading 350 threads for the past 2 weeks, it seems like the pontiac 350 is REALLy looked down upon. Why is this?(Im 19 and an ex chevy guy turned pontiac die-hard)Im just a novice when it comes to motors so bare with me. Dispite reading all the negative comments made by others (and some good), I am going through with my 350 build up. Right now I have dual exhaust with flowmasters, performer intake (the ports looked like they were done by a 5 year old cause they were small with rough edges compared to my stock 2 bbl intake , but i still put it on) holley 4160 600cfm vac. sec. #11 heads, 2.78 rear, and stock manifolds. I want to get to the 300-350 hp range with lots more torque if possible. How is my setup so far? What kind of cam should i get? 068 seems like the right cam from reading others posts. I would like to TRY and use this cam since I would be able to claim it as a stock cam. Keep in mind this is going to be a daily driver. What kind of torque converter would suit my needs? 2200-2400 stall? What brand is the most reliable? What kinda of head work (If any) will need to be done? Will the valves need to be changed? If so, which ones? I know it's a bit of questions, but i want to get it right the first time.

Also, since my car club is made up of ALL chevy muscle cars with SBC 350's, im the only pontiac in the club and would like to give those SBC 350's a run with for their money http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

ANY help with be greatly appreciated.

Hello all, I am going to need some advise for my 350 build up. From reading 350 threads for the past 2 weeks, it seems like the pontiac 350 is REALLy looked down upon. Why is this?(Im 19 and an ex chevy guy turned pontiac die-hard)Im just a novice when it comes to motors so bare with me. Dispite reading all the negative comments made by others (and some good), I am going through with my 350 build up. Right now I have dual exhaust with flowmasters, performer intake (the ports looked like they were done by a 5 year old cause they were small with rough edges compared to my stock 2 bbl intake , but i still put it on) holley 4160 600cfm vac. sec. #11 heads, 2.78 rear, and stock manifolds. I want to get to the 300-350 hp range with lots more torque if possible. How is my setup so far? What kind of cam should i get? 068 seems like the right cam from reading others posts. I would like to TRY and use this cam since I would be able to claim it as a stock cam. Keep in mind this is going to be a daily driver. What kind of torque converter would suit my needs? 2200-2400 stall? What brand is the most reliable? What kinda of head work (If any) will need to be done? Will the valves need to be changed? If so, which ones? I know it's a bit of questions, but i want to get it right the first time.

Also, since my car club is made up of ALL chevy muscle cars with SBC 350's, im the only pontiac in the club and would like to give those SBC 350's a run with for their money http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

ANY help with be greatly appreciated.

The fact that you can build up a 400 for the same price or less (cheaper/more common 400 pistons, all other parts are the same) than a 350 is probably why the 350 gets the bad rap. Same size and weight for both engines, more cubes on the 400. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

If you're starting from scratch on a complete rebuild consider the readily available 400, rebuildable 400 cores can be had for fairly cheap prices.

But if your 350 is in good shape or you just want a 350 go for it, they are a fine engine. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

The factory 068 cam is a good cam for a performance 350, '69 350 HO engines used that cam. I would advance the cam 4 degrees to work better with the tall 2.78 rear gears.

A good torque converter like you described is one of the best performance mods you can do on an auto trans car. I like the high quality and performance of the Continental converters, but they are pricey. http://pysales.com/images/sweat.gif

Stock exhaust manifolds won't let your 350 see 300 HP, plan on headers if you want 300+ HP. However the stock manifolds will run pretty well with a good 2-1/4" dual exhaust and will get you close to 300 HP.

A good stock rebuild with new stock springs will set your heads up just fine to work with the 068 cam. New stock replacement valves are a good idea, but not really needed if the old ones are in decent shape. The intake and carb you have are a good match for your 350 build-up.

Again, if you're starting from scratch consider the 400 engine. You'll get 30 to 50 extra horses for the same $$, not counting the price of the 400 core.

Good luck. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif

Thank you for your reply B-Man. I have considered the 400 engine for this build, but since i plan on another pontiac down the road with a 400 or 455, i figured what the hell!

I read about Continental on a few threads and I hear nothing but good results. However, they ARE kinda pricey ($350+). How are the B&M or hughes converters? Anybody had any luck with these?

Looks like 068 is the way to go. If I want to go to 1.65 rockers what kind if gains will I see in performance? What modifications will need to be done to use 1.65 rockers?

Both the B&M and Hughes converters are good, between the two I would go with the Hughes.

Running 1.65 rockers will mean converting the heads to screw-in studs and clearancing the pushrod holes. Not worth the extra money in my opinion for a very small performance gain.

The 068 cam with 1.5 rockers won't be a problem with the stock press-in rocker studs, 1.65s will probably break the studs. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif

This is one of the main reasons I recommend the 068 cam. Folks running press-in studs and stock valve springs won't need to go to the expense and hassle of changing them. Plus it's a very nice running cam.

Not worth the money then?

Correct me if im wrong, but is running 1.65 rockers on a 068 cam the same thing as running summit's 2801 cam? Seems like the 068 but with more lift. I would guess the studs would break also using this cam?

Will I be able to get a light lope with the 068, btw?

Dealing with the heads, would i need to port the exhaust ports to make good use of headers? How about a gasket matching the intake? Like I said before, my performer's ports were kinda small compared to my stock intake, is this normal?

Also, what would be the benifits going to a qjet?

Along with what B-Man said on camshaft, dunmp the flowmasters for a pair of Megnaflow mufflers. The flowmasters are just noise, but the Megnaflows will help get more power. There is a 25+ hp difference on a 400 on the dyno. If you have hood clearence, a 1 inch 4 hole modified spacer with the secondary side opened between the two sides under the carb will be a benefit. Your timing should start around 36-38 degrees total, with it coming all in by 2400 rpm. You can also use a 1.6 rocker arm on the intake only without pushrod clearence issues. Going with a 4 tube header and 2 1/4" or 2 1/2"max dia exhaust will work very well. Don't even waste your time on the three tube headers as with the exhaust on, there will be no difference from the exh. manifolds.

what kind of car are you putting it in?

The 2801 won't likely break the studs, but the 068 will be easier on them. Plus I think the 068 is a better cam even with less lift. Even though folks call the 2801 an '068 clone with more lift' it isn't even though they are quite similar. Get a Melling 068, Auto Zone special order P/N SPC-7. Yes, a nice little lope with the 068 in a 350.

Porting the exhaust side isn't needed to run headers, do it if you want. The small ports of the Performer are very efficient and perfect for a 350, leave it be. Gasket matching it is fine but I wouldn't bother myself.

Benefits of a Q-jet? Better carb all-around, better gas mileage and ability to use on any size Pontiac engine (all are either 750 or 800 CFM). I'd sell the Holley for a Q-jet in a heartbeat.

Wow, all this time hanging with the chevy crowd I thought flowmaster were the way to go. WHat magnaflow would you suggest? I just went to their site and they sound sooo much better than flowmaster!

I have a 4hole spacer I got from a friend, but doesn't have secondary side opened.

I don't know the total timing, initial is 12. Also my Delco Remy Dis. doesn't have a vac. adv..

Nick, Im putting it in a 1970 LeMans hardtop.

Ok, so no head porting will need to be done? Just a basic clean up i suppose?

Im going to a Qjet then http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

For sound and performance, it's hard to beat the Dynomax Ultraflows. These outflow the "Flowmasters" by alot. They sound mild at idle, which is a plus for a daily driver, but get loud when you step on the right pedal. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

Mike

In their (Megnaflow) Stainless Style, a 14336 or the 13946 will work very well. In the Aluminized style, (only about 10 bucks cheaper, i'd go stainless) their part# 12226 would be a very good choice. All of these are a 2 1/2" in and out muffler. I have some experience with the 12226 on a 351 in a Maverick, and it is a very nice sounding muffler that isn't too loud at idle or part trottle. It does sound great when you open it up.

I'm currently building a 350 too! Well.., I have the some #47 heads being rebuilt right now and hopefully the block this summer. I was wondering your thoughts on the Comp Cams XE dual patterned camshafts??? Are they any good or have any advantages?? Someone recomended them to me. But all I've ever heard on this site are Summits, Melling, and Wolverine once in a while. WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST CAM FOR A PONTIAC 350 BUILDUP? Assuming the "obvious" mods were being done (intake, headers, etc).

i have recently rebuilt a 350 w/#11 heads. I had them milled .30 w/ screw-in studs. An adjustable valve train, and remember, if using the comp magnum rockers and the ARP 290-701 studs u will have to add steel washers to make this work. Crane springs edelbrock rpm intake. New melling oil pump w/ARP shaft, Lunati 638-00071 cam & lifters. MSD pro billet ditributor, precision 2400 stall & rebuilt 350TH tranny, dynomax 15/8 ceramic coated headers w/21/2 flomasters,carter maech. pump & demon 750 carb. Don't forget the march underdrive. Eaton posi w/ richmond 3:55 gears. Sounds rough, and runs strong. If i were to keep the motor i would open the heads for bigger valves, but would have to also notch the block. think about this set-up.

Sounds nice DD! What was the end result? Any HP/TQ numbers or 1/4 mile ET's? Looking at all those premium parts I'd say you're into the motor for at least $5K, probably more???

Thanks!

Jim.

Well,now u must do the bottom-end! This is were the money starts to be a problem. For an daily driver this set-up is perfect. Strength,power and reliability. If u r looking for hi-performance speed then u are going to have to put more money into the motor,i.e. do the bottom-end, rings,pistons, rods, magnaflux,etc... This was my next dilema. My solution, Jim Butler Performance, 467 stroker..
Don't get me wrong the way this 350 gets out of the hole is a monster, but the bottom-end is really were pontiacs perform best they are not called "torque monsters for nothing."

I had a 350 in my 66 Tempest and I switched from the 2:56 posi to a 3:23 and felt much better, 3:55 would be about as much as I would want to go for cruising without switching to a 200r4.
There was an article a few years back in car craft that had a 350 with like 539 hp on 87 gas with edelbrock heads. I won't mention the builders name here but was impressive what could be done with a 350.

From what I been told with the 068 cam the rear end will need to be changed from highway gears to a more steeper setup. I had my 350 rebuilt and decided I wanted to keep it as close to stock as possible. I found an intake from a 350 high output, put a rebuilt Q Jet on it. Converted to HEI Ignition, put an 067 cam, had the stock heads shaved, with a five sided grind on the valves. The heads were ported with lots of extra material being removed. The engine was bored out .030. I figure its close to 300 hp. If you put headers and bump the compression a little more you should be at 325HP. Also find a Pontiac club in your area you be surprised how much help you can get from its members.

I've also heard that in order to go to 068 youn need more gear than 2.78 (what i have). However, I've been told it'll work.

Ok, i've run into some problems. I wasn't supposed to begin this little build until mid of summer, but my car has other plans! Just in the last couples of days, I began hearing a tick-tick-tick coming from the heads. I didn't think much of it that day, but next day It got a little louder and started to get worried. I seemed to come from the drivers side head area. I researched this forum for some answers and some people have had the same problem. Turns out that it might be a wiped out cam lobe. There's no other transportation i have, so i drove the car as-is for a couple of more days from college and back, now the passanger head area is ticking also. Time for a cam change NOW? I was going with the 068 melling cam along with a torque converter, new valve springs, and other stuff i might need, but don't have the money just yet. I have enough for the cam and lifters (Im pretty sure they are damaged if the cam if bad, no?). I need to drive this car, it's my only way of getting around, but if I only install the 068 cam without anyother things, like new springs, and torque convter, will the engine hold up?

Thanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if I only install the 068 cam without anyother things, like new springs, and torque convter, will the engine hold up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the engine will be fine. It just won't have the ability to rev up like it would with fresh valve springs, but it will no problem get you around fine.

Later on you can install new valve springs and a better matched converter for more spirited performance. Lower rear end gears than 2.78s will match the cam better performance-wise, but it will run pretty good with the 2.78s especially on the open road.

I would highly recommend advancing the cam 4 degrees, the 'good' timing chain sets (you are of course replacing the timing chain set) have at least 3 keyways that allow the 4 degree advance depending on how you install it.

Now get to work. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Ah, that's good to hear! So performance will suffer without newer springs? Noticably? Seeing as it still has the same 2bbl cam i should notice a BETTER responing car http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

I'm having doubt on the "2.78" gears i have. It feels like the engine's RPM is kinda high when i get to 60-70 MPH. I don't have a Tach so I don't know, but sounds like it will run out of gear if I hit 100 mph, or LESS http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif

What time set would you recommend?

Thanks much for the reply B-Man! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

i'm just about done with my 350 build, waiting for the upper dipstick tube to come from GM. it's a 71 block, with 70 #16 heads. Block was bored .030, decked .010, had to have cylinder sleeved, but the place that did all the machine work also builds a lot of diesel motors, so they knew what they were doing when it came to sleeves, and they also knew about building pontiacs. anyway, since i found the block in a backyard near a coal mine, had it magnafluxed, came back just fine, except for the #1 cylinder, which couldn't be bored because of sever rust. Heads are like i said 1970 #16 castings, rebuilt before i got them. stock valve sizes, but you can't go too big on a 350 because of shrouding. pistons do have reliefs cut in them. stock bottom end save for a .010-.010 cut on the main and rod bearings. 66 389 4bbl cast iron intake, holley 750 4160 carb(vac secondaries) Cam is a melling grind, 067. (350 4spd grind) torque converter is 2400rpm stall, rear is a 3.73 lsd out of a Monte Carlo aerocoupe. 68 exhaust manifolds with the flapper removed. Should be a pretty quick and reliable set-up for my 79 Grand Prix.

I'm having doubt on the "2.78" gears i have.

Well, then find out what rear gear ratio your car has. For cars without posi rears jack up the car so that only one rear tire is off the ground. Mark the tire and the driveshaft with chalk so you can accurately count the turns.

Rotate the driveshaft until the tire makes exactly TWO complete revolutions (differential spider gears have a 2:1 ratio). The number of turns of the shaft will be your ratio, about 3-1/4 turns is 3.23, a tad over 3 turns is 3.08, etc.

For a posi rear (working properly) get both tires off the ground and turn the shaft until the tire(s) make ONE revolution.

What time set would you recommend?

If you mean ignition timing, set it at somewhere between 32 and 36 degrees total. To set it disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the line. Rev the engine until the timing stops advancing (centrifugal/mechanical advance), usually at about 3000 RPM.

Setting the timing like this is the only way to know how much timing the engine has under full-throttle conditions. Trying to set the timing at idle (initial advance) is pretty much a waste of time, because most folks who set it like that will never know how much their total timing advance is.

After setting the total timing take note of the timing number at idle and use that for reference the next time you set the timing on the engine. You'd be surprised at the number of racers I've met at the track that didn't have a clue about setting the ignition timing on their race cars. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by b-man:

What time set would you recommend?

If you mean ignition timing, set it at somewhere between 32 and 36 degrees total. To set it disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the line. Rev the engine until the timing stops advancing (centrifugal/mechanical advance), usually at about 3000 RPM.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey b-man, I think he means which brand of Timing Set do you recommend. Edlebrock, Brand XYZ, etc.

Above you said "Rev the engine until the timing stops advancing (centrifugal/mechanical advance), usually at about 3000 RPM.

Can you clarify? i.e. Do you mean keep advancing the timing a little at a time while the engine is at 3000 rpm until you see the timing no longer advancing? Then your total timing should end up between 32 to 36 degrees?

It's much easier using an Advanced Timing Light, but I'd like to know the procedure since all I have currently is a standard timing light for setting the timing at idle.

Thanks! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif

Jim.

yeah, i did mean tim"ing" set, sorry 'bout the confusion. http://pysales.com/images/sweat.gif

Thanks alot for the info on the timing though! I'd also like to know the procedure on using a standard timing light.

Also, my dis. doesn't have vacuum adv. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif

The best timing set is a Rollmaster 9-keyway, about $90. I've also used the Cloyes Tru-Roller 3-keyway, about $80.

As mentioned rev the engine and just watch the timing mark on the balancer move using your timing light, at a certain point (RPM) it will stop moving. This is where the mechanical advance mechanism inside the distributor hits its peak and stops advancing. Note where it stopped moving, then advance or retard the timing by moving the distributor until it hits 32 degrees as the max setting.

With a dial-back timing light just set the dial to 32 and make the TDC mark on the balancer line up with the zero on your timing tab. With a standard light you'll need to mark the balancer at 32 degrees, easily done by measuring the circumference of the balancer and dividing that number by 360 to find one degree.

Last post before I install cam tomorrow. I was reading the thread and another 350 thread one last time and came up with a question. Will advancing the cam 4 degree's make the 350 "run out of breathe" too soon? I read on the other thread to advance 2 degree's (on the 068 cam). What is the difference from 2 degree's and 4 degree's? I don't mean question your knowledge or offend you b-man, I just wanna make sure. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

On a side disappointing note...
A week ago when i went to autozone to pick up some stuff. Coming home I ran into a honda civic. He slowed down at a yellow light to wait for me i guess, but i didn't think much of it. I was an empty area with no cars, but I didn't wanna race. I looked over at him and his girlfriend, and the guy looked over at me and laughed! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif I got annoyed, so i decided to got for it. bad news though, I couldn't pass him! I got to 50mph and stopped. This was sooo disappointing, I bowed my head in shame and headed home... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif

Will advancing the cam 4 degree's make the 350 "run out of breathe" too soon? I read on the other thread to advance 2 degree's (on the 068 cam).

It won't 'run out of breath', it will still spin to 5500 no problem. Advancing the cam moves the powerband down a few hundred RPMs to a range that's more useful for the smaller 350 engine.

Keep in mind that the 068 was first used in bigger 389/400 engines and later on in 428/455 engines. Putting this cam in a smaller engine makes it act like a bigger cam, so advancing it will put it in a range that will be better matched to the smaller engine.

For a car with an auto trans this makes a big difference in performance. You probably won't need to shift it much past 5000 to make good power.

What is the difference from 2 degree's and 4 degree's?

That would be 2 degrees. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Seriously, a 2 degree difference won't be quite enough to notice, go for 4. That will be enough to shift the powerband for better torque down low without going too far.

Now my question for you: Did you use my easy method to find your rear gear ratio yet? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

On a side disappointing note...
A week ago when i went to autozone to pick up some stuff. Coming home I ran into a honda civic. He slowed down at a yellow light to wait for me i guess, but i didn't think much of it. I was an empty area with no cars, but I didn't wanna race. I looked over at him and his girlfriend, and the guy looked over at me and laughed! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif I got annoyed, so i decided to got for it. bad news though, I couldn't pass him! I got to 50mph and stopped. This was sooo disappointing, I bowed my head in shame and headed home... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont feel Bad when I Had a 72 350in my 72 I got smoked by a Volkswagon TDI {turbo diesel} on the highway I even had 2.58 gears!!!!!! BTW Did You guys Know about the 72 350 recall for bad bearings or rods? After Blowing up 3 I say 3 72 350's Years later the internet tells me Why I always blew those 350's up. From what i read it was a real recall and only affected the 72 pontiac 350's. Whats funny is That I actually Got 3 72 350's in a row! One from a Pontiac Wrench mans stash {now i know why it was 200$ running!!} Second one Bragain News 3rd one junkyard. Crazy WHo would have thought and I probobly have a better chance of winning the lottery than doing that today 15 years later!

B-Man, yes i did use your method, and it is 2.78 http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif I doesn't feel like it though...

I dont have a tach, but if feels way up there in the RPM range when going 65-70 on the freeway. Like it'll run outta gear at 100mph or less.

Sorry to hear you had news with your 350's '72 Lemans! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif

Well by the looks of today, tomorrow is the cam swap day http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif I hate unexpected family company!

4 degree's it is then http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

I dont think it applies here since Your completely rebuilt anyway. It was Either a rod rod bearing issue or rod bolt issue. I cant remember but it was recalled on the 72 pontiac 350 engine.Wish I had Known Good luck Btw!

OK, finished installing breaking in the cam (a friend helped ), and went out for a test drive. I've run into some serious problems. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_frown.gif
For some strange reason I can't seem to get any traction when gas is applied? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif Not only that, some weird black marks have appeared all down my street? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

Seriously, WOW...without a posi rear end i don't think i can get good traction!

Thanks all for your help! I love this board http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Expect some more questions once I get the cash to get all my other stuff! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif Those marks are just a new protective coating to help the pavement hold up longer. Have fun with the new found power.

Burn outs rule!!!!!!!!