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Just got my Dougs Headers installed and when I lowered the motor back into place (I had raised it slightly to ease installation), I noticed that the drivers side motor mount didn't drop down all the way into place. After checking things out for a few minutes I noticed that one of the center header tubes was resting against the front crossmember. Anyone experienced this yet with Dougs Headers? I was willing to pay the extra money for them because I heard that they fit well. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Thanx for your help.
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Just got my Dougs Headers installed and when I lowered the motor back into place (I had raised it slightly to ease installation), I noticed that the drivers side motor mount didn't drop down all the way into place. After checking things out for a few minutes I noticed that one of the center header tubes was resting against the front crossmember. Anyone experienced this yet with Dougs Headers? I was willing to pay the extra money for them because I heard that they fit well. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Thanx for your help.
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I had trouble getting my mounts to line up again after lifting the engine, but the headers did not touch anywhere. Maybe a bad mount?
http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html http://kurtsplates.homestead.com/files/jimplate.jpg |
I have heard of very few problems...but if there is, Doug's Headers will fix it.
Questions: What car? Has the car ever had frame damage? Are the motor mounts old or new? Sometimes frame sag plays a role in these things. Heads...what type? Call Paul on the direct hotline at 909-788-4878 and he'll work to get things right for you. Dave "Big Injun" Anderson www.pontiacdragdays.com www.geetotiger.com http://www.pontiacdragdays.com/BigInjunPlate.jpg |
Like Dave said, I have heard of a few problems from time to time but the problems were due to accidents the car had been in or frame spread.
Call Paul at Doug's Headers. Ron http://pontiacdragdays.com/GTO4RON.jpg |
Guys, it's a 70' GTO and no frame damage (that I'm aware of). Motor mounts are new and same ones I used with my old no name 3-tube headers. Did not have this problem with old headers. I'm tired and frustrated and I'm now going to bed. Will wake up in the morning with renewed enthusiasm and a fresh perspective.
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I just took some digital photos of the drivers side header where it contacts the frame and I will try to post them on this forum tomorrow. It is easier to show where the interference is than to explain it. I will call Paul tomorrow as well. I'll let you know how it turns out.
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No ****, I just finished my Doug's header installation this afternoon!
By far the easiest header install I've ever done or helped do! The driver's side damn near fell in place (from underneath). The passenger side required seperating the mounts & lifting the engine, but was easy. Only issue was that the passenger outlet collector flange hit the floorpan. Had to "massage" the pan w/ a 3lb hammer to accomodate, about 3/8". Two thumbs up for Doug & Paul! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif http://kurtsplates.homestead.com/files/badta.jpg SECOND AMENDMENT: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY. I Misus Rash'! |
Larry, no problems with floorpan clearance- I have plenty. Just can't understand why I seem to be the only one with frame contact though. I'm using factory type replacement motor mounts and nothing else has been modified. Where the 2 center tubes come off of the head and curve back is where they are contacting the rear of the front cross member. I am still in the process of trying to post pictures. They also contact the rear lower control arm mounting bracket. Go figure.
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Guys, may be on to something. When you installed your headers did you lower the motor back down before bolting them up? I bolted my headers on with the motor elevated about 2". Someone suggested that this may be causing the headers to bind as I lowered them back into place. One other thing-it appears that the motor mount on the passenger side sits flush against the crossmember whereas the drivers side sits about 1/2"-3/4" above the crossmember. Which position is correct? In other words where the bolt goes through the frame mount it is positioned at the bottom of the slot in the passenger side and it sits at the top of the slot on the drivers side. Should the mount on the drivers side slide down all the way over the frame mount until it contacts the crossmember?
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Yes, and yes. The engine should be down before tightening the headers, and the engine mount should go over the top of the frame mount and be very close to the frame. If you can get the bolt through both pieces, then you have it in the right way.
http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html http://kurtsplates.homestead.com/files/jimplate.jpg |
GTO70. I know you are not having a good time right now. The little piddly ass problems make life.... well suck some days. I've had my Doug's Headers for over a year now and like them more and more every time I fire the engine. When this is all said and done you will enjoy them as well.
Ron http://pontiacdragdays.com/GTO4RON.jpg |
Ron, thanx for the pep talk. Yeah, I hope that it is all worthwhile too. I think with a little therapy that I can make a full recovery from this experience. OMT. I can get the bolt through on both sides, but it is towards the top of the loop on the drivers side. Funny, never noticed a little thing like that before. Is this correct? I mean if I can get the bolt to go through the bottom part of the mount (anywhere) then it is OK. Thanx.
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Thanx, I'll post again in the next couple of days to let everyone know how it turns out.
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GTO70, It's not just headers, it all of the little crap...all wrapped into one bug pain. You get advice, you make the purcahse and when you go to install it.......BANG...It does not fit, or the color is not quite right, too big., not square, too round, too much back spacing, bolt is the wrong size and the list goes on and on. I did this for years and years...putting my '65 GTO back together after a frame off restification. This many years down the road I have forgotten almost all of the BIG pains but a few still remain......untill I fire the engine, pull it out of the garage.......and go cruising. Life is good, LIFE IS GREAT!!! I would get discouraged and then see a great car that is all put together like OMT's '64 GTO or Barry Troups '65 GTO and a lots of other great cars. After that I would get hot to work on the car again and....after 20-30 years (just kidding) I was off and driving it!!
One particular point of discussion. When having problems, and calling the manufacturer or your friends that recommended this particular part or service and you are having problems. Don't you just love the reply they tell you...."You know, you are the ONLY PERSON that has this problem. NEVER seen this before" Couldn't you just SCREAM or wring their necks!!! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif Enjoy Sir, Enjoy!!!!!! Ron http://pontiacdragdays.com/GTO4RON.jpg |
Yeah Ron, I can definitely relate to that. You must have the same friends that I do. My next door neighbor is a big Chevy guy, and every time I run into a little problem, the first words out of his mouth are: "You should have bought a Chevy". I'd rather push my 'non-header fittin' GTO down the track than drive a Chevy. As a matter of fact... I think I could push mine and still beat his Chevy.
Anyway, I tried installing the headers again, (this time lowering the motor before tightening the header bolts) and It seems that I now have roughly 1/16" clearance in the previously mentioned areas. Better, but not enough. I'm really starting to suspect those motor mounts-even though they are only 3 yrs. old. They are El-cheapo Korean units that I purchased from a restoration co. (Not PY-I dont' think.) What kind of motor mounts is everyone else using? Anyone using the polyurethane mounts$$$. Thanx. Keep the advice coming. I'm gettin' there. |
If I remember correctly, I purchased a set from the local NAPA store or from PY. I can't remember for sure.
Ron http://pontiacdragdays.com/GTO4RON.jpg |
Just wanted to update everyone on my Dougs Headers install. I tried a new set of motor mounts (look the same as the ones that are already on the car) and still do not have adequate clearance in several places. So, I contacted Paul, and after a brief discussion I decided to return them. They will check them against there jig to see if something moved or if I just have an odd ball car. I'll post again when I get them back.
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Now that's what I call customer service. Good luck.
Give me a thumbs up, tell me "Nice Car!", but for god's sake, don't call it an Impala. |
I made a set of 1/4" spacer plates that go under the frame mounting plates on the recommendation of the guy who's doing the body on my Goat. He has a '69 RA IV GTO that he needed to do this on to clear a set of Hookers. It will raise the engine 1/2" , which will give me nore finger room, and hopefully forestall any clearance problems with the Dougs headers on my '66. I'll let you guys know how it all fits!
http://tripower455.freeservers.com/i...5tag7small.jpg "I open up three deuces, I'm Never Coming Back!" http://www.tripower455.com |
Could some of you folks that currently have Dougs Headers, possibly post some photos of thier Dougs Headers?
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http://tripower455.freeservers.com/dougsheader1.jpg http://tripower455.freeservers.com/dougsheader3.jpg http://tripower455.freeservers.com/dougsheader4.jpg
Mine are for D-Port heads, to fit the '64-'67 cars and are coated. $520 from PPR. They come with decent looking gaskets, a 2.5" set of collector reducers and all bolts etc. I'll let you guys know if I run into any install troubles! I won't be installing them for a few weeks. I need to reassemble my engine after my munched cam lobe fiasco! This is the driver side. http://tripower455.freeservers.com/i...5tag7small.jpg "I open up three deuces, I'm Never Coming Back!" http://www.tripower455.com |
I thought Doug's only made true "equal length primary" headers???
Those rearmost tubes sure look shorter to me! "Nothing Beats an Ol' Goat..." http://www.wacomquartz.com/images/li...on2orqcopy.jpg |
They sure are pretty. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif
Give me a thumbs up, tell me "Nice Car!", but for god's sake, don't call it an Impala. |
So let me get this straight--you had "cheapo" Hedman 3 tube headers on your '70 and they fit well, then replaced them with expensive Dougs headers and your having big time fitment problems?
From my experience, fighting with headers is absolutely no fun--I have a set of "unknown" headers in my '70 Judge (they were on the 400 when I bought it). I did need to replace the header gaskets a few years ago when one blew out, it was a long day and not very enjoyable. I suspect my headers are cheapies also, but they really don't fit too badly, especially after reading your story. Do you think there could be a problem with Dougs headers on a '70? Best of luck; Mootie |
The butthead that owned my car last welded the motor mounts to the crossmember off center about a half inch. So when I try to install headers they make contact with the driver side control arm.
Why would anyone weld the motormounts in too lazy to drop bolts through? |
So what happened ?
I'm kinda curious now ? Rusty 67 GTO |
Just finished installing Doug's headers on my 64 column shift Tempest. Excellent fit. Lifted engine all the way up and hung the passenger side first. Can't tighten the bolts until the engine is back down on the mounts. Tubes hit on the lower control arm bushing bracket. Dipstick tube was moved out slightly to allow the flange through. I bent the tube back to it's original position and it just clears the header flange. The #4 pipe is almost contacting the crossmember where the trans line holder bolts down, 3/16" clearance. The drivers side goes right in, no problem. I used 6 point ARP stainless bolts with the 5/16 head. All bolts can be reached from above, except #7 rear. No clearance problems with oil filter, column shift linkage, mini-starter or power steering rag joint. You may have to re-route trans lines. Excellent ground clearance, but collectors seem to point out from center slightly, no big deal. Will try to get to the track next week to see if there is an improvement over HO/RA manifolds.
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I just installed a set of Doug's on a 67 Tempest
(column shift as well) with a hyd roller 428 d-port - same headers pictured above (nickel plated). Same as wagon4 - had to remove trans line bracket - made other trans lines anyway. couldn't use pf24 filter - used skinny replacement as per Dougs instructions. Drivers side went well - just needed to remove mount to slide up - stock starter fit fine. Headers cleared everything. MUCH better to install then Hedmans from last job. A-body headers (especially 64-7's) are the worse for headers - Its weird the firebirds have less room except for the headers - the frames are wider - not experienced with the big cars We test fit the PY 3" exhaust with this car (67 tempest) - nice fit as well. waiting on Radiator to fire up - should sound nice with ported 670's 540 lift hyd roller and 3" Xlerator mufflers. GTO70 - Make sure trans mount is stock (some are too tall) - crossmember should be mounted below top frame in rubber insulators. I've seen trans' mounted incorrectly - that will tilt motor up and cause clearnace problems - those are usually the cars the driveshaft is hitting the floor. also - some 70's came with 455's and the mounts and frame mounts are different - another possible wrench in the works. Its exhausting work - but at the end things will breathe easier. (original corny Spotts quote) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ www.spottsperformance.com |
Paul I used an AC Delco PF58 when I installed Doug's Headers.
Ron http://pontiacdragdays.com/GTO4RON.jpg |
Hey guys, sorry I was so long updating this post, but I have been without a computer for some time now. Plus, I have been recently distracted by my new project car-a 2001 GTP. Anyway, here are the details of my adventure, in case anyone out there is still interested. When we last left this story... I was in the process of sending my headers back to Dougs. Dougs checked them against their jig and said that everything looked OK, but, they said that they would send me a different set that might fit better. Well, when I opened the box and removed them, some of the scratches on the headers looked remarkably similar to the set that I returned to them. I test fit them and they fit just as poorly as they did before. Well, to make a long story short, I decided to keep them (against my better judgement) and just ended up "clearancing" (i.e.-hit with a hammer) them in 3 locations.
They contacted the lower rear control arm bushing bracket on the drivers side and were so close to the front crossmember, on both sides, that I had to "clearance" them there as well. So, nearly 2 months later, I have my Dougs' headers installed and am waiting for my 3" x-pipe and mufflers to arrive to be installed. Im will let you all know if it was worth it after I have the opportunity to take it to the track. Probably, in another 2 months, or so. |
WTF?? Column shift A-body headers but still no B-body column shift headers? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif
Foolproof and Sucka free since 1979. |
joe, every one know's big cars aren't supposed to be fast so they don't need headers! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif
mike |
Yeah, but I do like them louder with better gas mileage. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif
Foolproof and Sucka free since 1979. |
Joe did you see my last pics on those shorty's?
Grandville464 |
Just that first set you posted.
Foolproof and Sucka free since 1979. |
1 Attachment(s)
0h ok heres the one you were waiting for its posted somewhere else too .lol
Grandville464 |
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heres the rest http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif
http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...11&m=629609802 Grandville464 |
Man, that is close. My steering box is right where the center tubes are.
Foolproof and Sucka free since 1979. |
Viva La Headers For the BIG CARS......
Dammit we need headers, we want them....... Not LB's...Not HO'S........but headers....cheapies..whatever..... We will have headers... 66 Catalina, column shift auto. this is starting to go from a "war cry" to a "beg" lol |
No way they are going to fit. The tubes exit right on top of where the steering box is. Us big car guys are denied yet once again. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_mad.gif
Foolproof and Sucka free since 1979. |
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