Was looking to replace the white 4-spd shifter ball with the correct one. I thought the one that PY sells with the Pontiac emblem in it wa the correct replacement, but just ran across a picture of a '70 T/A with a bright blue interior (same as mine) with a black shifter ball. Is this correct, or at least an option?

Here's what mine looks like now:

the black ball.....one year, '70.

Thanks Larry!

Larry,
Any idea why all the repo houses advertise this one as correct for a 1970? Is it correct for a Firebird, but not a Trans Am:

"broad-base" term..."firebird".
yes its correct.

Both of the extremely original, low-mileage '70 4-speed T/As I've seen have had the black 8-ball. One was a standard interior car, the other deluxe.

I have owned my 70 Trans Am for 30 years and this is what was in it the day I got it. I am not saying that it is original, but the car was not that old when I got it. I don't think this is an aftermarket ball. It is larger than the hurst ball. My car has a standard interior.

This knob was used 71& up. The 70 w/deluxe int had black wrapped knob, w/wood knob all red 4spd insert.
http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by racerboy:
Larry,
Any idea why all the repo houses advertise this one as correct for a 1970? Is it correct for a Firebird, but not a Trans Am: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My 70 T/A is mostly original and it has the big black ball. It's so worn you can hardly make out the shift pattern. It has deluxe interior.

Hurst T-Handle came on mine. What do you think about that?

My last reply was in regards to the black ball and NOT the repro 71-81 KNOB.
The KNOB is nothing more than an AUTOMATIC trans shifter knob that has been retrofitted with a bad 4 speed emblem AND a threaded insert to mount on the stick.

Here is a picture of an NOS knob.. These are rather pricey, but I would not put one of those cheap looking repos on my car.

Now this is intresting.
When I bought my '70 back in 1989, it also had the Hurst T handle.
Going to P.O.C.I. car show in the SoCal area, I found that the black ball was on cars up to '69. On all of the 4 speed '70s I looked at (six of them with standard interior), they all had the white ball.
So, I bought a white ball.
Anyone else with a white ball? (uh, on their car's hurst shifter)

George http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif

Norwood, your picture is interesting. I wonder if your NOS one is a late production one? The one I still have that was in my '72 Formula (bought in '82) has a distinct metal ring around the insert. I have seen NOS ones being sold that look like yours (and I've even bought one) and I always wondered if they were really later repros.

Has anyone bought the '70 black ball repro that Ames lists? It says it is a little bigger than original, but the one that is in my '70 Formula (standard int) is so worn down it looks like crap.

NOS purchased in about 78. A GM product for sure, but also could be a second design.

I'm gonna try and post a pic of my original 1970 shift knob. This came in a totally original, totally rusted away, nothing changed '70 Firebird.http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL731/.../105552242.jpg

and this....http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL731/.../105552249.jpg

so..what have we concluded here? A '70 TA would not have the leather knob? It also would not have a white knob? a '70 TA would have a large black knob?

I believe that the black 4-speed (simulated leather) knob that appears similar to the black automatic (simulated leather) knob is considered by many people to be correct for 1970 Firebirds, but it is not the OE piece...

To the best of my knowledge all 1970 manual transmission Firebirds recieved the large black ball shifter handle (pictured several times above; also the three speed cars recieved the same sized and coloured ball)
- there is only one exception; it appears as though some of the very early 4-speed cars could have a recieved a walnut knob that appeared very similar to the early walnut simulated automatic shifter handle (this is the same one pictured on the 1970 RAIV T/A recently pictured in HPP).

I have found one company that appears to have a very close match to the original black ball shifter handle, they're here:

http://www.precisionpontiac.com/

Here is the direct link to the repop knob (it's marketed for 1965-1969 Pontiacs):

http://www.precisionpontiac.com/products.htm

I hope this helps!

(although I intend to buy one, I haven't yet!)

Jonathan

well if you look back at my posts with the pics I showed, I have a very original 1970 Firebird that came with the leather type knob. That car was as original as you get, everything. I am positive that is the knob that came on it. But it seems, that people are saying that a leather knob is not correct for a TA, but could have been on a regular Firebird. The white it seems was from 69 and earlier. Right?

I don't know who's car this is, but the knob is the leather type and I have seen many this way...

That is 71 & up.

Pete, just because you've seen many that way doesn't make it correct... somone could have easily swapped the simulated leather knob in your car on the thirty-some-odd-years prior to your purchase of it...

oh, and that picture you used to prove your point... theres a painfully wrong piece in plain veiw... any guesses as to what it is? (if one piece has been swapped, a 30 second shifter handle swap is much more feasable.)

The only 1970 advertisment photo (obviously from a pre-production car) with the simulated leather knob in place, has a knob with the walnut knobs' insert (a totally different one than the ones shown) - this makes it a simulated leather variant that I have never seen pictured outside of that one photo...

Also, all of the 1970 road tests I've seen with stick cars had the black ball...

well I restore cars, not Pontiacs though. I am not a nubile to the car world at all and I trust my evaluation. This leather knob that was on my car looked as old as everything else. It is not like the repo leather knobs. The car was a 350 2v '70 Firebird with console. There was not a thing changed on the car..no where. It had set for over 10 years when I got it. I truely believe the knob came with the car, it matched. Now maybe the leather came with a console?

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. I ran across these for sale and interesting enough, they are listed as "without console". These are the all black round knobs. Not that this is proof, but this is what I suggested on my last post, that maybe the leather style was original with a console??

http://www.bodypartswarehouse.com/Re...ird-Middle.htm

I bought one in the autumn. The T/A is in a garage many miles away, so I can't take a picture. It is noticeably larger than the white shift ball. I don't really like the way it feels, but that's probably b/c I'm used to the "standard size" shifter ball in my '65 and '67 GTOs, and up unitl now, in my '70 T/A.

Frank

I can provide two more examples of TA's equipped with the large black ball:

1) 1970 TA without console and less than 100k miles built in May 1970. Did not end up with this car but it was original down to the hose clamps.

2) 1971 TA with console and less than 90k miles built in August 1970. This is my personal car and it is definitely the original knob. It also has the chrome rings around the gauges.

Pete, what year is this car? I see the RTS on the dash.

No more calls please, we have a winner!;)

Technically....there were two(2) different type "leather" knobs in the '70's.
The early ones had a raised shifter bezel.
The later ones had a flush mounted bezel.

Both knobs are featured on the first page of this thread.

right..and if you go back to the first page of this thread, you will see the actual knob from my '70 in a pic that I posted. It is the raised type as most say is the early style. So..what determined if a '70 got this raised type leather knob or the plain black ball knob? Console?... although Chief has a console and his has the black knob.... Whatever the guys on the line picked up? We could have a situation where console cars should have the leather type knob, but at the discretion or lack of care from the line workers, whatever was picked up was used????

My 70 has a console and the large black shifter ball. I was always told that the leather one wasn't used till 1971, but check out this picture. You can't see the printing due to the flash but this is a advertisement for 1970 firebirds and it has the leather style shifter, (and no console). In the photo, the center appears to be red. I can't tell if it has the pontiac logo or not. Sometimes I wonder if they didn't run out of certain items on the line and just substitute what they had available. Case in point, Keith K''s car and mine were built in the Van Nyes plant the same day, 34 units apart so they were probably built within an hour of each other. The are optioned almost identically, but his car has the chrome rings around the gauges and mine are black. So, it seems reasonable that two different shifter balls could have been used.

I have a deluxe interior in my RAIV. I believe the red insert knobs went in deluxe interior. Most all advertizement show the blue deluxe gut w/red insert shift knob.

Notice the bird, all the way on right side. They moved it over to the left in july, 70.

Roundport,

My 70 has deluxe interior (sandlewood) and the black shifter knob.

I'm sure there is no wrong answer, they used what they had on shelf @ the time. The red insert knob seems to be real rare. I was lucky to score a nos one @ TA nats in 1992.

so maybe rather than being a certain knob with ot without console or deluxe interior...it is more a date thing. Maybe early in the year verses later in the year etc. I'm surprised that it isn't common knowledge as to when and where these knobs were used. In the Mustang world, there isn't much to guess. Most has been documented and "figured" out.

Speaking of shifter balls, any idea what these balls are from? Probably aftermarket is my guess.

My 71, built 12/70 has chrome bezel rims.

Had my 70.5 TA since new. Blue interior w/ console 4-speed had the black ball.
Never knew there were so many different knobs. Of course, not like you see one every day either.

when was your car built?

Not sure, but it was built in Norwood I believe.

I'm trying to figure if the later 70s may have had the leather knob as it appears they were on 71s.

It's also interesting to note that I recall seeing a service package for gauge surrounds - one part number was for chrome surrounds, and the other was for black surrounds...
according to the parts book (if I remember correctly), there was a "build date" cut off date as for which one was correect for which car...

About the ad posted with the '70 T/A with the shifter knob with the red insert - That is the exact add I was refering to - I have never seen that knob, only ones like it that had a walnut handle instead of the psudo-leather handle... I have presumed that was a pre-production peice, like many of the parts on the pre-production Trans An and Formula cars used for magazine tests...

About that picture Pete posted - Yup, the RTS is the most painfully obvious out-of-place item for a 1970 T/A... (the second clue is the "wiper/washer" script opening)

About the date posted as for when the 'bird moved on (non-A/C) cars; was there a point in time when they started going back to that spot? - I have seen many over there - including my '73... I often wondered if there was a ryme or reason as to where the emblem was put, because I see more way over to the right than not...

Shifter BALL??
 

With respect to the shifter, I agree with Larry's statement

Technically....there were two(2) different type "leather" knobs in the '70's.
The early ones had a raised shifter bezel.
The later ones had a flush mounted bezel.

I did find it interesting that some 70 original owners said that their cars came with the round balls instead of the knobs, as none of my research has evidence of this as a option. I researched several Original Dealer brochures and looked in several reference books. All the pictures I have found show the "70 only" shifter knob which has different printing on the raised surface. Since all the pictures are in black & white I cannot tell colors.

To add to the mystery is the fact that dealers would "customize" cars on the showroom floor. Evidence of this is dealer installed options such as in 1971 the Brochure has listed dealer installed Hood Pins. Even though a dealer could have installed them as an option, I would not consider them stock.

If anyone has any date correct photos or other tangible evidence that the round balls were available in 1970 as stock, or a dealer installed option, I would be very interested.

TIA

Ames catalog number F11 (page 155) lists a part number for the 1970 "large diameter black 4 speed shift knob". The comment says, "We have had requests for this rarely used large shift knob found on some 1970 applications...

The part number is FR575C

?:(
You do understand that that was posted to distinguish an early from a late psudo-leather shifter handle right?
I have seen the handles with the "raised shift indicator insert" handles in cars as late as 1975... and all the later (eg: 1978+) cars had the "flush shift indicator insert" handles.
IF I notice anything out of place on a car I cannot suggest it as being oringinal especially since this is an easilty changed piece...

?:o
Some original owners?? - I thought every original owner here has stated this...
It wasn't untill a couple years back that I knew the '70 Firebirds had specific shifter handles - as this isn't common knowledge; and since the pre-production cars pictured for the 1970 Firebird advertisement campaign clearly did not use production pieces, it should be feasable to understand that some of the finer details had not been cleared out at the time of printing those advertisements...

There is no mystery here - the hood pins & hood tach were never installed from the factory (just like 1967/1968 Firebird Ram Air systems) - they were only installed at the dealership.
For you to suggest that a 1970/1971 Firebird with hood pins should not be considered stock, would lend me to believe that you should think that 1970/1971 Formulas with the hood tach - or a 1967/1968 Firebirds with fuctional ram air are all incorrect...

?:(
What kind of evidence do you require... how many original 1970 Formula or Trans Am owners have to state that the black ball was their original piece before you believe it was the factory piece...

I believe that the same oversized round (black) ball was used for some years of GTO's and Grand Am's - so this shifter handle was definatly used for more than one year & model application...

I submit for the viewing pleasure of this audience two more pictures of an original 1970 Firebird with a black shifter ball - this one was the most recent one I Photographed, a legit 1970 L74/4spd Formula - the only things changed on it, were paint, and some small service items... this was the first Formula I've seen with the 70 only "ram air"-air cleaner base brakets still in place...

My 70TA is an April Norwood car with console and has the black 8-ball knob. Original since new. Don't know if this helps or not at this point. :)

it all helps :o)