Head Flow Testing of the AllPontiac Tiger Head by DCI

The head was tested on a SuperFlow 600 flow bench. All measurements are at 28 inches of water. Outside temperature was 70 degrees, the flow bench temperature was 155 degrees and the relative humidity was 62 percent. The test fixture bore sizes was 4.250 inches. This is a as cast head with just a little clean up. Not ported by a machine.

Valve Lift / Intake CFM / Exhaust CFM / Int/exh Flow Percentage
.100 76.50 63.20 82.61
.200 144.55 111.80 77.37
.300 207.97 161.00 77.41
.400 267.00 196.40 73.55
.500 315.95 230.20 72.85
.600 358.20 252.20 70.40
.700 388.05 264.30 68.10
.800 411.93 269.20 65.35
.850 417.90 269.20 65.85
.900 422.37 276.50 65.46

Intake Valve was 2.250 Dia. And the exhaust was 1.800 Dia.

This Post will be were we will post all Data from the test good or bad. I will start to receive date late today and post it as soon as I can.

Head Flow Testing of the AllPontiac Tiger Head by DCI

The head was tested on a SuperFlow 600 flow bench. All measurements are at 28 inches of water. Outside temperature was 70 degrees, the flow bench temperature was 155 degrees and the relative humidity was 62 percent. The test fixture bore sizes was 4.250 inches. This is a as cast head with just a little clean up. Not ported by a machine.

Valve Lift / Intake CFM / Exhaust CFM / Int/exh Flow Percentage
.100 76.50 63.20 82.61
.200 144.55 111.80 77.37
.300 207.97 161.00 77.41
.400 267.00 196.40 73.55
.500 315.95 230.20 72.85
.600 358.20 252.20 70.40
.700 388.05 264.30 68.10
.800 411.93 269.20 65.35
.850 417.90 269.20 65.85
.900 422.37 276.50 65.46

Intake Valve was 2.250 Dia. And the exhaust was 1.800 Dia.

This Post will be were we will post all Data from the test good or bad. I will start to receive date late today and post it as soon as I can.

Which exhaust port?
Raised?
Exh. port Size?

Dude, It was a Std. Height Round Port Exhuast with a 1.800

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

Im setting on the edge of my chair.

This is probably a stupid street car guy question, but I was surprised the flow numbers were pretty much like the KRE heads and the eheads up to .500-.600 lift. Can you actually have a motor with .900 lift?

yes

Stupid question or .900 lift motor http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

.900 lift cam

Bob -- Have there been any test on port velocity, and if so do you have numbers you can release.

Looking good Bob, great potential.

The intake #s are really good. What do you think the exhaust flow nunbers can get to ported out?

The numbers above are as cast std. round port. The heads that we are testing on the dyno are High round ports. I do not have those numbers but, they are more in line to 80% of the intake or more.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gearbanger:
Can you actually have a motor with .900 lift? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


real street winner has over .900 lift in his motor

Dave,you thinking about going after that ford now?LOL,Tom

So do you have any idea what the heads flow that are on your engine now? The numbers you posted are what was published in HPP in Oct of 2003.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gearbanger:
This is probably a stupid street car guy question, but I was surprised the flow numbers were pretty much like the KRE heads and the eheads up to .500-.600 lift. Can you actually have a motor with .900 lift? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Show me an Edelbrock head that flows 358-cfm @ .600" THAT ISN'T A WIDE PORT THAT HAS BEEN CNC PORTED and I'll show you a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Pretty DARN good flow numbers if you ask me!! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif

How is the testing going?

LOL...its now in a PRO Stock firebird LOL!!!
real street winner has over .900 lift in his motor[/QUOTE]

Slowbird, you better be the first in line to buy a pair when they're ready. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

What a guy cant be curious. Im just excited about all the new products that are coming out.

Here's a timeline for Slowbird:

December '03, AllPontiac buys out the rights to the IA block.

May '04, AllPontiac has IA-II blocks for sale and ready for assembly.

December '04, AllPontiac buys out the DCI head.

Will we see them for sale in May '05? Very likely. Just sit back and relax, there will be some more info coming soon, trust me. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Its alive and running. No tuning and just a very short pulls numbers we have are in the high 7s and the torque in the 7s near 5k. They said that it no longer sounds like a Ponitac. Can't wait. I leaving around 4:00 A.M. for Cerlli's

Very cool news all around!

Looks like we're an intake manifold and an affordable crankshaft away from some 800 to 900+ HP Pontiac crate engines!

Great work AllPontiac.com!

Pontiac Racers and Enthusiasts:

Today, we are witnessing history in progress with the very first dyno session of the new AllPontiac Tiger head designed by DCI Motorsports. I spoke to Bob at AllPontiac right after the first pull and he was so excited, it was hard to keep up with him! Things look very promising considering the carburetor was acting up, and they had to shut it off early in the pull around 5400. This project was a huge undertaking and I for one am extremely overjoyed with the progress Bob and Frank at AllPontiac have made.
It was very hard for me to make the decision to sell the Tiger Head. I was approached by many different individuals and companies that wanted to purchase the idea, and I had to make several very tough decisions:
#1 Do I try and continue on by myself with a limited budget,
#2 Take on an investor who has no interest in our hobby, just the financial return, or
#3 Sell the idea to a company that has a burning desire, like mine, to improve the traditional Pontiac engines success and push it to new levels.
I think you will agree that I made the right choice. Pontiac fans, rejoice!! This is only the tip of the iceburg. Along with this head, there are many new and exciting things and products that are going to happen for traditional Pontiac racers.
Hang on guys and gals! We are going to go from
0-100 at light speed and I can't wait!!!!

Sincerely,

Don Johnston
DCI Motorsports
"Home of the first as cast 400+ CFM Traditional Pontiac Head"
330-628-3354

Don, I think you made an excellent choice by putting it in the hands of Bob and Frank. Now we will all see your head design at work at a much quicker timeline. That is very good news for the rest of us.

Absolutely Unbelieveable!!!!!!!!!

838 horsepower at a very low rpm of 6500. Even more impressive is it makes 800+ horsepower from 6000 rpm up. Remember, this test is simply a head swap. No other changes. Same cam, same intake, same headers, same compression and the Tiger Head still made an impressive 120 more horsepower (as cast with no porting) over the E-head that was ported to flow 340+ cfm. (Bob's previous combo with e-heads made 718 hp at 6800.)
Bob says everything looks great. Cylinder temps are even, spark plugs look great, no hot spots, and they have made several pulls, back to back.
This is a great time to be a Pontiac enthusiast. With this kind of out of the box horsepower available to anyone who wants it, who knows where this can take us?
I can't wait to see what a ported Tiger Head with 15-1 plus compression, sheet metal tunnel ram with two dominators, and matching cam and headers can do. We have just scratched the surface!

H.P. T.Q.
6000 801 701
6200 818 692
6400 826 678
6500 838 678
6600 831 661
6700 835 654
6800 836 645
6900 829 631
7000 821 616
7100 827 612
7200 818 597


Don Johnston
DCI Motorsports
330-628-3354
"Home of the Tiger"

Wow!! I think I will have to get a set of those heads and an aluminum block!!!!

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif Looks like i will have to clean out my garage to raise more funds. http://pysales.com/images/sweat.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

sounds great, im ready to buy a set as soon as they are available, i have a 565 ci waiting for a set, thanks for all the hard work guys, looks like my dream of a 1000 hp pump gas pontiac engine might be withing reach finally http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Now about those mid 9 second and quicker full body all steel 65 GTO's and mid seventies Firebirds with a very streetible cam and compression that we will shortly be seeing. Here chevie chevie chevie, we got something for your slow butt.

Great numbers but why did the motor go flat at 6500?Not enough cam?Not enough carb?Tom

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tom s:
Great numbers but why did the motor go flat at 6500?Not enough cam?Not enough carb?Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE> If i remember right, the engine was originally set up for E-head/cam combo which maxed out around 6700-6900rpm?

That's great! Thanks to all.Thats impressive.Good luck.

I'm glad Bob said all of the sponsored cars will be getting a set.....hey,there's the UPS truck now... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

tHOUGHT the e-head bracket motor made 771 hp at 6300 rpm ????

Here is a link to the engine I think the heads went on. Although it says the hp was 740 so that still makes it a 100hp gain.
http://www.maximumraceengines.com/512buildup.html

So there is no piston swap needed to run the Tiger head?

SlowBird is correct. This was my motor at 718 Hp. And yes you do have to do a piston swap becasue of 14 deg for the E-head to Tiger at 12 deg. valve relief or recut the piston for both.

I will post more later.

Ray called. Wanted to know http://pysales.com/images/sweat.gif http://pysales.com/images/sweat.gif if I will have them on my car for Norwalk. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Ya have my # stamped on a set. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Wow...!
Is indelible history being made to the tune of 2HP/cubic inch&gt;&gt;?

HIS

HPP, in the most recent issue, said there was a "street/race" version. People are going to run these on the street?

JYD; http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif Besides,here in St. Louis area, we have guys running high 7's with licensed cars. Very limited street driving, but they make laps on the cruise scene in Fenton and St.Charles, and the very limited cruising in South County now. Each "lap" is about 5 - 7 miles.I think the Tiger heads in a full body Pontiac with a 2 stage nos or a turbo or blower would put a guy in the hunt against the quickest guys here. Make them drive it for about 20 miles first then get 'em! 2 outta 3 (they won't have fuel left with their 8 gallon tanks).

I attended yesterday's session, and got a first hand look at the heads. They were not ported, they were as cast just like Bob has claimed. In all, 21 pulls were made. No major issues were encountered and the heads performed well. The very minor issues involved an errant starter motor, and a 1250 Dominator from AED that needed some minor tweaking to get it to idle. A few in attendance commented that 21 pulls was ALOT (since this was my first time at a dyno session, I didn't know any better)...yet the IA-II block (with cast crank) and the heads performed without any issues.

Testing was done essentially using Bob's same combo that made 718-HP...essentially a head swap. With same cam, headers, intake, and carb...the Tiger heads made 824-HP as opposed to 718-HP with the 340+ cfm E-heads.

An additional 13-HP was found by switching to a 1250 Dominator prepped by AED. After changing idle air bleeds, it settled in with a nice idle, and sounded healthier than with Bob's carb. It also evened out the exhaust temps from cylinder to cylinder and the average HP turned out better as well. Good carb swap!

An additional 3-HP was found with a few well placed bags of ice and leaving the shop door open. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

After several pulls, 34 degrees was determined to be optimal for the purposes of the test. Trying 36 was discussed, but good numbers were being achieved at 34 and the purpose of the test was not to set the world on fire, but rather to test the durability of the heads. Additionally, the BSFC was consistently in the low-mid .4's...jetting to get them into the upper .3's was discussed, but again, it was decided to play it safe with the jetting, rather than trying to set the world on fire and risk hurting the heads or engine. Even still, 800+ HP from a 13.1 CR Pontiac running a little on the rich side (and making it under 6500 rpm), ain't too shabby. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Thanks for having me along, Bob...it was a blast.

2hp per cube... Dont sell the farm yet. I would have thought that they would have made around 1000hp with a head that flows over 420cfm on a 4.250 bore and at over 8500rpm. Maybe they didn't get an intake that could support the heads flow numbers.

How did it sound? Anyone get pics of the engine?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Langer:
2hp per cube... Dont sell the farm yet. I would have thought that they would have made around 1000hp with a head that flows over 420cfm on a 4.250 bore and at over 8500rpm. Maybe they didn't get an intake that could support the heads flow numbers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A modest cam...282 @ .050" on the intake side, installed at 105 int. c/l if memory serves. Net valve lift (again if memory serves) was .790".

The intake used to get these numbers was Bob's Victor, which appeared to have little more done to it than a gasket match (I was surprised to see it didn't even have a turtle in it).

And John, how do you flow a head at 8500 rpm? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

All pulls were made to 7200 rpm max. With the HP peak coming in much lower than this, there was no point to run it higher.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Langer:
Maybe they didn't get an intake that could support the heads flow numbers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

seems to me that bob clearly stated this would be the case for the initial tests.