I would like to know what racers think the best transbrakes are and why. I'm thinking about putting one in and would appreciate any help on selecting one. Thank's

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Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live The Legend" www.outlawpontiacs.com


JBP 416ci on Gasoline
#16 Dports 10.8-1 Compression
Weight - 3275
10.5 - 29.5 TIRE
Best ET: 60ft=1.39
1/8 =6.49@104mph
1/4 =10.29 @ 129mph

[This message has been edited by Craig Berkheimer (edited 10-19-2000).]

I would like to know what racers think the best transbrakes are and why. I'm thinking about putting one in and would appreciate any help on selecting one. Thank's

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Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live The Legend" www.outlawpontiacs.com


JBP 416ci on Gasoline
#16 Dports 10.8-1 Compression
Weight - 3275
10.5 - 29.5 TIRE
Best ET: 60ft=1.39
1/8 =6.49@104mph
1/4 =10.29 @ 129mph

[This message has been edited by Craig Berkheimer (edited 10-19-2000).]

I have a Hipster brake in my T-400. When I had it installed I took it to a fellow Pontiac racer who owns and makes his living running a transmission shop. He has always run TCI brakes in his 9.80's GTO. When I picked it up from him he commented that the machine work and fit of the Hipster Brake was much better than the TCI's he had been running in his own transmissions. I don't know that it works any better than a TCI or not but I have been pleased with my Hipster for over three years now.

Thanks BR. I guess you are the only transbrake user on the board. It seems that your recommendation is what I'm coming up with as well. I'm going to give Hipster a call next week.
Next question, Can anyone give me a basic or detailed description on how the tranbrake works.

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Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live The Legend"
www.outlawpontiacs.com


JBP 416ci on Gasoline
#16 Dports 10.8-1 Compression
Weight - 3275
10.5 - 29.5 TIRE
Best ET: 60ft=1.39
1/8 =6.49@104mph
1/4 =10.29 @ 129mph

Try Rossler Transmission he does a lot of super stock stuff its the brake I run.

I don't do any of my own trans work, I leave that up to others who know what they are doing but essentially the transbrake is a modified valve body with a solenoid operated spool valve that when activated locks the transmission in both low and reverse gears at the same time. When you let go of the micro switch, it releases the solenoid which releases reverse gear and in my case, the front suspension rockets out of the beams until I'm on the wheelie bar and just as the front wheels are coming back to earth, I'm grabbing second gear! It's a rush, you'll wonder why you evever tried footbraking at the track! After you get used to it it's much easier to cut good lights, at least it was for me.

[This message has been edited by Bracket Racer (edited 10-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bracket Racer (edited 10-21-2000).]

I have been running a trans-specialities pro-tree trans brake for around 4-5 years now. It is pretty fast, I usually cut .460-.480 lights with a t-400 in a 3400 lb car and 9" tire. Griner brakes are really good (fast) as well but the valve body is expensive.

I am also thinking about going to a brake. I've been told by several fellow racers that I will need a delay box. I usually cut lights somewhere in the .5 teens (we run on a .500 full tree). I'd like a few opinions.
Thanks

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Bill

I have a Trans-King Pro transbrake, but I have only had the car out three times. I have nothing to compare it to and I don't have it dialed in yet. It is supposedly very fast. The only downside is that you must activate the button to be in reverse. When the button in pushed it goes into reverse, no matter where the shifter is. This is kind of a nuisance as it makes it hard to back up and steer the car at the same time that you keep the transbrake switch depressed.

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Jim

Thanks for the help guys. Bracket Racer, what are your 60ft with the brake and without it. What you discribed is what I'm lookin for!! That must be a killer ride.

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Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live The Legend"
www.outlawpontiacs.com


JBP 416ci on Gasoline
#16 Dports 10.8-1 Compression
Weight - 3275
10.5 - 29.5 TIRE
Best ET: 60ft=1.39
1/8 =6.49@104mph
1/4 =10.29 @ 129mph

B.R. is right! Transbrakes are fun and cutting lights seems to get more consistant. My first transbrake was a TCI. Worked O.K., but I blew that trans (T400 ) in about 10 passes. Then we put in the "good" one, expensive as well, it's a Griner, I'm not sure about spelling, but the good trany shops will know about them. What I was told the difference is - alot of T-brakes are just modified valve bodies that were cast as original equipment- then redrilled and modified to be reverse w/t-brake. The good ones are billet assemblies that are designed and cut to be reverse w/t brake from the start. The size of the passages is important for fluid pressures, including the infamous "balloning" of the torque converter which has been known to wipe out thrust bearings. By starting over with the design (as in the billet ones) a lot of the problems have been solved. Make sure the rest of your drive train is rock solid, cause when it hits --POW-- you know it!! Bill Meyer

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GT37

Craig. I run a Select Performance pro tree brake in my glide. They are located in Valley Stream, NY. Ph # 1-888-55-SELECT. Thier brake also needs the button pushed while in reverse in order for the car to back up. It is a pain at first but you will get used to it. He also built my convertor. Gave him all the specs on car, engine parts, dyno sheets and he custom built it for me. I believe the price for the brake was around $275.00 (for a powerglide). The guy who did my trans is Tom Goldman. He is a Super Gas racer in the Allentown PA area and builds most all the local area racers transmissions. He also does rears and chassis work when he has time. I just started using the trans brake and delay box and think it is great. Hold the button, see yellow, let go of the button, put it to the floor and hold on.

Craig - Trans brakes are literally a kick in the pants. I don't know that I could compare 60 ft's before and after because my car was going through other changes at the same time as the brake. With the Hipster brake the trans functions normally (manual reverse valve body, no need to hold the button for reverse). The best 60ft I have ever had was 1.293. I run a 32 tall 15 wide Hoosier slick and a 4 link. I have some shots of the car under the topic "Track Results - Licensing" in the Lobby. The car has a 54% rear weight bias with the motor lowered and moved back about one foot. The timing cover sits behind the spindle centerline, to give you an idea. See the pics. With a brake I was able to gain more confidence in my ability to cut good lights because I found I could be more consistent with the brake than I could footbraking the car. You'll definitely want a quality converter. Mine is a TCI 8" custom ordered with spec's that Jim Butler provided. Some people use a two step on the brake but I prefer to matt the pedal and let the converter decide what my launch rpm is going to be. I studied just about every dyno sheet I could find of other Pontiac race motors and it always seems like peak torque falls between 4500 - 5200 on a well prepped combination. My TCI stalls at 5000. Ideally (if your tires and suspension can hold it) you want to leave around peak torque and shift just a smidge past peak HP is what I have been told before. I think the current set-up I have is about right. Once you get the car hooked solid you'll want to have a rear-end that won't need to be sewpt off the starting line in little pieces after you let go of the button. This is why I run a Dana 60 and Richmond Pro-Gears. The pro gear doesn't last as long because it's softer (Rockwell Scale) than street gears and aborbs the shock loads better. The trans brake is so fun that I think I would want one if I were still driving a street car, the psychology of sitting at a street light in an auto car with the tach buzzing at full stall would have the guy next to you so pumped he'd see tail lights before he knew the light had turned green. Not that I advocate street racing mind you especially when it's so easy to go to a sactioned track. Good luck with the brake if you decide to put one in. Maybe you could share some before and after for the rest of us once you get it dialed in for maximum stickage on the line!

Well BR, This "maximum stickage" at the line may propose a problem. I currently run a M/T 29.9-10.5w.(minitubed) I can't get anything much bigger in there. I also won't do a full tube on the car. So I wonder if it will hook. The current convertor flashes to 5500, hits rather hard and 60fts a 1.40 consistantly. Will the brake just hit the tire that much harder and plant it, or am I wishful thinking. Sounds as though I'll probably tear the 12 bolt up as well! Humm! Starting to sound think a bad idea.

The 10.5w tire is really a big tire, I think that the side wall is something like 13". I have a slapper bar suspension in my car and I don't have a problem making my car work with a brake and 9" wide DOT tire. It takes time to work the suspension out when using a brake. Footing it doesn't shock the tires as hard. Put a 2-step in the car to find out were the car wants to leave. I tried something like 4 converters before I found one that worked. I leave a 4000 and it flashes to 4800. Now, if I foot brake the car the 60' is only off by around .02, but the car starts to creap and binds the suspention at 2200 rpm. Foot brake converters are designed differently then that for a brake. I use coan converters. They are in Indiana. They are a pain in the ass buy they work. Turbo action makes good converters as well. I would try to stay away from the larger companies because they just mass produce their parts and will try to find the closest off the shelf part that fits your application instead of making one around your application. Hope this is of some help?

BR - With your 5000 stall converter - What rpm does it lock up at? What do you go through the lights at? And how much slippage do you believe you have through the lights?

When I originally put the converter in the car the engine would run to about 4600 WOT on the trans brake. This is a function of the torque the motor produces. As I made mods to the motor the stall number has gone up to it's current 5000 rpm. Based on past calculations using tire circumference, rear gear ratio, finish line RPM and trap speed from the ET slip, I have estimated about 94 - 95% converter efficiency at the big end. Although my converter is from one of the "big" companies, TCI, it was a custom ordered deal. After a conversation with Butler he gave me numbers to ask for in my order from TCI for fin angles etc. Took about 4 weeks to get it if I remember. The brake will shock the tires harder but lot's of cars running a 10.5 slick are hooking up well with a brake. a 1.40 60ft isn't anything to sneeze at. Again, good adjustable shocks are a must in my opinion. It's also important to scale the car to determine corner weights and front to rear distribution. Usually I run about 10 pounds of air in my slicks and I have about 1/2 turn of preload in the upper paasenger side 4 link bar and I tighten up the rebound setting on the drivers side shock to get a straight launch.

I run a Select Performance brake too, and don't have to push a button for reverse, an will only work if I'm in first gear, don't have to worry about accidentally hitting the button. Mine most be the older one. The thing has work great, it's actually the same one ATI sells, they copy Selects Brake. The
ballooning problem happens when your going through the traps, and throw it into nutual. That's a No No! I run a Coan convertor, and agree about the other company's using off the shelf , as close as they can get convertors, not saying their bad companys, but if you say street, your in trouble.

Craig, my opinion, you won't pick up anything by going to a trans brake, but better reaction times.The only thing that will help you is more ponys.What happens lots of times with a brake it will un-load the tires. unless your making the power to provent that from happening. The trans brake is made to shock the chassis, on a car that doesn't want to lift the front end allot, and carrier the wheels up for say 30-40', the front end drops to quickly, and un-loads the rear tires. Thats when you'll get un-consistent 60's, won't be much. Of course I don't know how good your car works. But it sounds like it pretty much have it dial in for the hp your making.

Craig, I'm going to a Hipster brake for next season. The guys I have talked to say it is the most consistant releasing brake they have used. It also has a few features others don't have.

As far as having to push the button to go into reverse that has to do with if it is a protree brake or not. All protree brakes that I'm aware of you have to push the button to make the car go into reverse. With a standard brake all you do is put it in reverse. In my opinion you would be better off staying away from a protree brake since they release so fast, unless you are going protree racing or are going to a delay box. You will find it hard enough not to redlight for a while with a standard brake.

It doesn't look like you are having a problem in the traction area and I doubt you will with a brake. You may hit the tires a little harder with the brake but not much harder than you already are. If you leave off of the top of the converter like BR does it actually hits the tire easier than if you were to leave at 3200 with the same 5000 stall converter. The reason is that by leaving at 3200 the converter will jump right to the stall of 5000 and shocks the drivetrain and tires harder. That's why a majority of the really fast cars (4 and low 5 sec. 1/8 mile cars) leave off of the top of the converter. All depends on how your car is set up. Some cars need to hit the tires hard to plant them. Others leave better not hitting them so hard. Just need to try different launch rpm's.

The one thing to remember is to buy the best converter you can afford. I run a BTE 8" and believe it is the best converter for bracket racing. My 60' rarely vary more than .006 all day.

The main thing you will gain is more consistant reaction times and ET's with a transbrake. Once you switch to a transbrake you will wonder how you ever raced without one.

[This message has been edited by PROBRD (edited 10-23-2000).]

My dad runs a 455 JBP E-Head Roller motor- 79T/A 3500lbs.-Turbo 350 A-1 converter-A-1 valve body-A-1 brake-10" slick-10 bolt rear 3.90 gears, moser axels,moser spool,C-clip elem.NPW cover W/ Truss system-Competition Eng.Slapper bars.Super strength u-joints drive shaft.
He runs 10.30s @130 all day no nitrous 1.41 60 ft..He launches at around 4500 rpm on the brake and shifts at 6600 rpm.This will be the 3rd year of racing without a problem we change the rear end gear lube every season & inspect.
Marv Ripes at A-1 is a great guy to work with. I have a local machanic(Dukes Garage & Machine Columbus Oh.) build the trannies to his specs.A-1 Marv Ripes custom builds your converter so you will need to talk directly to him.We also use Crane ignition components their components are very easy on the crank & other engine components ,do to the way they fire the engine during staging & burn out.My dad is a large man 6'3"-345 lbs.so he test the strength of all of the components .He has been very happy with our setup and recomend A-1Mark.B

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Are there any mods to be made to the trany before you bolt in a brake? Besides the regular stuff like Hi Perf. clutches, sprags etc.

The trans is the same but needs the special converter with the anti-balooning plate. Its a disc or ring welded at the back of the converter. I ran my reg converter and broke it when I went to the brake. I used the JW brake and it was excellent. The brake is also used with a reverse shift pattern as well. Your reaction time improves when the brake is hooked up to a 2 step or Co2 throttle control. I used the Co2 as the 2 steps are harder on cranks (yet I know guys that have used 2 steps for years with no crank failure).

Bracket Racer,

You're getting some real good advice here. Our car ran its first season without a brake, and could 60 ft. 1.29. With a brake (Hipster, BTW), we really didn't pick up much, but the car left much more crisply. We are now down to 1.19, but that's because of power and gear than TB. Lights are much more consistent. You will need a delay box if you're running Super Pro, otherwise you won't be competitive. Don't worry about the twelve bolt, unless you've got stock stuff inside. We run a 12 bolt with all MW and it's the lightest (fastest) combo around. No need for nine inch!!! Hope this helps, good luck!

EW
compedgeracing.com


[This message has been edited by nhraracer (edited 12-19-2000).]

Can anyone help answer the question GTO asked?

OMT, how's your Trans-King brake working?

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live The Legend"
www.outlawpontiacs.com

Craig - I have 168 flawless runs on my trans. All but about 4 of them have been using the trans brake. My trans was first built without a brake, then I had it re-done to add the brake. That is a story of its own. I am not aware of anything done to it just because it has the brake. The only downside is how reverse works. On mine it only works with the trans brake button energized. That makes it a little hard to back up.

http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html

http://kurtsplates.homestead.com/files/jimplate.jpg

GTOi dont build trannys but you also have to drill holes in the high gear drum to releive pressure or you can blow the snap ring out i use Select performance for my transmission worki have a turbo 400 in my 11sec firebird took it out of my grand am 5yrs ago has over 1000runs still going .use ATI converters last one had 8 yrs of use before select rebuilt it hope ths info helps

pure pontiacpowerd 86 grand am
455 eheads hyd. cam 9.24 at 145

I have been foot braking this combo for several years. I just recently went to a trans brake. It is a TCI that I got from Summit. It is actually a kit and comes with several parts not just a valve boby. It has a reverse pattern valve body, special springs, valves etc. The installer also needs to do some mods to the trans upon installation. If you go on the TCI web page you can even see the installation instructions and what is included in the kit if your interested. My first time out was a disaster, I either red lighted, cut a terrible light, or I was shifting from 1st to neutral. Glad to have a rev limiter. Second time out was a little better but still had trouble red lighting and was not ver consistent. I talked to a guy at the track and he gave me some tips on using a brake. Third time out I was finally getting used to the brake. My lights are better now than ever and a lot more consistent. I will never go back to foot braking. I love it. And the car launches harder than ever, great wheelies too.

Tim C

65 LeMans, 3700lb. all steel, full interior, D-ports and a flat tappet cam, 11.06@122

Boy that was a while back! Since then I have re-built my own TH400 with a JW brake. I followed the instructions on the B&M trany kit and the JW tans brake. The trany works great and the Brake hits like Jack the Bear! I've had two seasons on it and it's still going strong. Have gone 9.89 in a 3900# GTO. ...Eric.

Does anyone have a contact # or website for Hipster Transbrakes. Can Scott Esterle at Summit get them? Thanks in advance.

You know why they call it "PMS"? Because "Mad Cow Disease" was taken

Jegs has them in their catalog, Summet does not.

Bill

Well, I finally went for it and had a double throw-down TH400 race trans w/brake built to replace my slipping junkyard w/kit unit. Come to find out my trans case was cracked! (that 'splains the leak that keeps getting worse http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif) Anyway replaced the case and all is good, should have trans back soon. Question is: what else will I need to use the transbrake? I already have a TurboAction Cheetah SCS shifter, that has button (and forward pattern, so I need reverse pattern plate). Id like to put the button on my steering wheel though. Is there some kind of safety switch to prevent accidental hitting of the brake button while on a run? Do I need a 2-step? Anything else? Already have a killer 8" Continental conv w/plate. Really looking forward to letting go of the button and launching that sucker! http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...s/icon_eek.gif

You know why they call it "PMS"? Because "Mad Cow Disease" was taken

[This message was edited by Guy Mazza on February 01, 2003 at 09:47 AM.]

Don't put it on your steering wheel! It is too easy to have an accident with it. As to a safety circuit, there are controls in a delay box for that. I was paranoid about switch bounce in mine so I programmed a big delay to avoid the transbrake re-energizing for several seconds. The problem with that was that I would need to re-energize it now and then at the starting line and I would be stuck. I took the delay out, and no problems. Mine is mounted on a pedestal built off of my shift platform. The button is in the middle and the delay box is on the top. I used the large button. I also used a three step. One for burnout RPM, one for Stage RPM and one for the high RPM limit.

http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html

http://kurtsplates.homestead.com/files/jimplate.jpg

I think that the transbake only works when your in 1st gear, not 2nd or third. It's still a good idea to have a safety installed. ... Eric.

I have never tried mine in 2nd or 3rd, but I know that it works in neutral. My guess is that mine works anytime you push the button.

http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html

http://kurtsplates.homestead.com/files/jimplate.jpg

....thanks for the input!

In some trans brakes you CAN hit the button in 2nd or 3rd and engage the tans brake. One of our racers with PDD did it........TWICE. Very expensive repairs as the TH400 was a high dollar trans.

Ron

http://www.pontiacenthusiast.com/GTO4RON.jpg