What should an 04 GTO run at the track? A guy in town said his is bad ass and run 12's http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif ok I really believe that.
I ask him to run me light to light or go to the track together. He was not interested in either
he said he had a dirty air cleaner. another time said he had bad gas so it wasn't running right. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif ok

There is a woman at the track with one last week. Not as fast as I thought they would be from all the hype. she had a 14.55 dial and didn't cover it.
From the BSD site " Michelle Stahl in her `04 GTO fell in the second round of Street Auto to Rob MacDonald's Chevelle when she couldn't cover her 14.55 dial." first run was a 14.57 next was a 14.69.
That is a respectable time I guess for a street car.

Question 1: Is that average for one? I thought car & driver said they were mid 13's cars.

2: I didn't think 04's had hood scoops & tail spoiler. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif

Anyone know??

They are 13's bone stock. However that LS6 motor in a Stock Eliminator Trans AM will run 9's in Stock Eliminator trim. A good tuner, different cam but to factory type specs, tires, gears, it would go deep into the 12's in my opinion.

Well from what I saw at the POCI race At Atlanta Dragway the '04 GTO couldn't even handle my '01 GTP. Best run was 14.5 for the GTO. My best run was 14.3
Its all on tape and I will try and post them some. Having a problem with my ISP right and it won't upload my file correctly.

Yes, as Ron said most are mid 13's stock. They also seem to dyno around 285 to 295 stock as well.

However, if you take a bone stock 04 or 05 GTO, add a 3600 converter and mickey radials you will run mid 12's at a normal track/Alt.

Headers, Cam and PnP and it you can run low 11's to high 10's depending on the cam and heads.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinInjun:
Well from what I saw at the POCI race At Atlanta Dragway the '04 GTO couldn't even handle my '01 GTP. Best run was 14.5 for the GTO. My best run was 14.3
Its all on tape and I will try and post them some. Having a problem with my ISP right and it won't upload my file correctly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was there. He is totally correct. There were 2 '04s and an '05 which has the 400hp motor and none of them ran faster than a mid 14.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There were 2 '04s and an '05 which has the 400hp motor and none of them ran faster than a mid 14. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That kinda sucks.... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

Mine at the Southern Nationals ran two mid 13s , but mainly low 14s, a 14.8 @ 99.5mph. 3950lbs on their scale. 282 on a Dynojet chassis dyno. The computer pulls all kinds of timing out with heat and other "torque management" issues. Why the computer tunes can make a big difference even on a stock one.

Hard to run brackets not knowing if it will be a 13.5 run or a 14.80 run!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There were 2 '04s and an '05 which has the 400hp motor and none of them ran faster than a mid 14. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That kinda sucks.... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Those times are NOT typical of what they will run.

3 cars running mid 14s sound pretty consistent to me. Maybe 1 or 2 would be not typical. They were launching fairly decent and didn't seem to have any traction issues.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bonneville Joe:
3 cars running mid 14s sound pretty consistent to me. Maybe 1 or 2 would be not typical. They were launching fairly decent and didn't seem to have any traction issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


What were the conditions at the track?

I recall Goatseeker telling us that almost everyone was off 3 or 4 tenths.

But as Skip said, with the heat the GTO's stock computer pulls enough timing out to choke a horse. They are a mid 13 sec car, the autos are slower, but the 6 speed needs a good driver to make it quicker than the auto...

They do run mid-low 13's stock. As with any car though, track times depend on the driver, track conditions and temperature. Heat soak and Torque Management can have a big effect as well.

LS1GTO.com Top ETs

As for the car pictured, it's got the Special Appearance Package which for '04 consisted of recessed front grills, different spoiler and hood with scoops.

Sounds like this guy was a poser, with a bone stock '04 GTO. I haven't seen or read about any of them yet that run in the 13's...but have seen plenty that run 14's (which to me, is pathetic for this type of car in the year 2004).

Even still, wouldn't take much tweaking to get them to run 13's or 12's and still be able to drive everyday and get decent mileage.

Brian, that's not true!!! Chris will tell you they can do 12's with the wind blowing behind them. Don't you know they are the best GTO ever?!?!? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pierced mikey:
Brian, that's not true!!! Chris will tell you they can do 12's with the wind blowing behind them. Don't you know they are the best GTO ever?!?!? http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chris is so overzealous where the new GTO is concerned, that he can't see it for its faults, few they may be.

There's more than a few, but there is a lot of good points too... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Will I ever buy one? Probably not.
But it does have one heck of a motor... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif
You just need to know what to do with it. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

Actually, the entire drivetrain AND chassis in the GTO is pretty sweet. It just suffers from lackluster styling, and lackluster performance (which it shouldn't in performance).

It was slight overcast in the high 80s. Not sure what the humidity was. Typical summer in the south weather. Most of the runs came when it got a little more cloudy with an approaching storm. And the wind was blowing from Souteast to Northwest (pushing the cars)..

Density alt was 4200 ft that day and we all had to run under the same conditions. There were two GTP's there that would have handled the GTO's with no problem. Can the GTO run quicker, yup, but it doesn't look good when a 231 ci V-6 can hold its own against 5.7 and 6.0 liter V-8. The GTP's have the same computer problems that the GTO's have so the point is mute on that.
I was there for the HPP shoot out also. The GTO's couldn't run faster than 14.5s that day eigher. Should make for some good reading in HPP it they put it in the mag. Needless to say I wasn't impressed.

Thank you, David, for maintaining a sense of reason and at least acknowledging the car for what it is.

I have but one question. Why is it that every thread started on this car always, and I mean ALWAYS result with the haters and NON-OWNERS chiming in and (1) ruining a legitimate inquiry, and (2) disputing everything the OWNERS state? The haters see a car run, have no idea who is driving it, and reply in disbelief to an actual owner stating his own personal experience with HIS car.

Will it ever END? If you don't like the car, fine. But why are you so interested in ruining every single thread? Do you feel anyone is interested in your childish response? I seriously doubt it.

A few months ago you were constantly babling about how certain mags gave another car the nod over the GTO. Well, those same mags ALL saw sub-14 second times, and many of them mid-13 second.

Believe whatever you want. But until you are piloting this fine machine your views are purely speculative.

You love whatever it is YOU drive and we don't make vane attempts to destroy your excitement and thrill. So why do you continue to attack ours? Then again, if you think mid to high 14s is typical of 400hp, I understand. You are truly lost.

By the way, I owned a GTP and TRUST me, the GOAT will WASTE any stock GTP.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pont3:

I have but one question. Why is it that every thread started on this car always, and I mean ALWAYS result with the haters and NON-OWNERS chiming in and (1) ruining a legitimate inquiry, and (2) disputing everything the OWNERS state? The haters see a car run, have no idea who is driving it, and reply in disbelief to an actual owner stating his own personal experience with HIS car.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you have someone that boasts they have a 12 second car (any car, doesn't matter what it is), and when asked to bring it out and prove it, they come up with lame excuses like "my air filter is dirty" or "I have bad gas in it"...you can rest assured that they are FULL OF *****. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Where I come from, we call these types of people "posers". Some do, some don't, and then there's "posers".

3 cars running the same exact times isn't speculative, that's a fact.

Working with alot of these LS1/LS2 style engines, especially in the tuning dept with LS1 edit, I can tell you the stock programming is a huge problem. Especially in the 6.0 litres.

It is also a fact that the cars will put out around 300 to 350 HP to the rear wheels on a chassis dyno bone stock (depending on the year). Unlike the track, dynos require no particular skill to achive the "best" numbers for a given car. This "fact" is undeniable. What does a stock real GTO put to the rear wheels? I doubt there are very many that will throw 350HP to the rollers. Try a high compression Ram Air IV engine on todays fuel without pulling any timing out. See the problem here? You have to compare apples to apples. Taking the prepped "ringer" magazine times from the sixties and comparing them to the local yahoos at the local track is not even fair.

I'm as hardcore "old school" as any of you, but I also have driven my 05 wonder from down under for almost a thousand miles, and I can tell you that the heat really kills the performance. The difference is, the computer pulls timing out so the engine lives while the RA IV holes a piston or two. Even if 14.5 is representative for the Holden (which is clearly not the case), that is on par with most late 60's GTO's that I have owned/ridden in. So at least give credit that a car with a smaller engine and the same weight can equal the performance of the "typical" 60's Pontiac GTO... while running the air, cd player and getting 25 MPG.

This new breed may not be a Pontiac GTO to many of us, but it is an impressive package from a purely "technical requirements" point of view.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brian Baker:

Chris is so overzealous where the new GTO is concerned, that he can't see it for its faults, few they may be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Overzealous? Maybe. Styling is always subjective. Performance isn't. As we learn that altitude is 4200 feet and in the 80's it's no surprise that the cars were running slower and a blower GTP might keep up with it. It makes all the sense in the world now.

And if you think all 04 GTO's run in the 14's, go see NickV's 04 run. See, sometimes a GOOD driver can squeeze good numbers out of it. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_wink.gif

ok I take they should run in the 13's with good conditions. What about question 2, Did the 04's have scoops & spoilers? is the picture an 04 or 05?

What do the new GTO's weigh in at?

455HOGT said "a car with a smaller engine and the same weight can equal the performance of the "typical" 60's Pontiac GTO"
I didn't think one was that heavy. My Lemans even with a lot of things removed still is 3880#

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lethal-428-lemans:
What about question 2, Did the 04's have scoops & spoilers? is the picture an 04 or 05?

What do the new GTO's weigh in at? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The stock '04s had no scoops, and the stock spoiler is just like the '05.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by Jeff R.:
As for the car pictured, it's got the Special Appearance Package which for '04 consisted of recessed front grills, different spoiler and hood with scoops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'05 curb weight is 3725 lbs based on Pontiac's website, but that's probably with no gas in the tank. The '04s were 50lbs heavier.

Skip says his is 3950# ready to race... It's a porker. It is also a lot bigger than people seem to realize.

How much of the new GTOs are fiberglass and how much are metal? The 4th gen F body cars had alot of fiberglass panels on them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bonneville Joe:
How much of the new GTOs are fiberglass and how much are metal? The 4th gen F body cars had alot of fiberglass panels on them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Typical rubber front and rear facias, the rest is steel.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
As we learn that altitude is 4200 feet and in the 80's it's no surprise that the cars were running slower and a blower GTP might keep up with it. It makes all the sense in the world now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You obviously have no expirence with a blower car if you think that. Heat and humitity have the same effects on a blown engine as they do on a NA engine. Maybe more so a problem with a blown engine. You see blowers make heat, lots of it, and heat kills power. I'll bet my intake temps were double that of the GTO's. Maybe Tom Vaught can chime in here and explain it better. There is a reason Ford uses intercoolers on their blown engines.
My times were off .2 to .3 tenths. MPH was also down 3 mph. You don't see me making any excuses. We were all on the same playing field. I'm not bashing the GTO here either. Just getting tired of people making excuses when it doesn't run what they think it should. Its tough defending the GTO to the Ford guys when they see what it really runs at the track. They know I'm a die hard Pontiac guy and they hit me with both barrells when they see its real world performance. I have to just suck it up and take the abuse. Also it doesn't help sales of the car when John Doe sitting in the stands sees what it runs.

Fact is, event though the GTO is designed for the street, it acquits itself quite well against many modded cars. Additionally, it lends itself to moddability that can mean terror on the track too.

However, owning a GTO does not automatically make one a better driver, especially on the track. Funny how every time a Stang gets toasted by the Goat, the response from every Ford owner is, "with a better driver", or "the guy don't know how to drive it". It's conceiveable that certain GTO drivers may not know how to extract the max on the track, even three of them on the same day. Was that the case? I don't know but I've seen enough low and mid 13 second timeslips to know that 14s are not the norm.

I don't personally race my car, therefore its quarter mile times were not a factor in my decision to purchase. That it does well is a bonus.

The GTP does not have torque management intervening the power delivery. Doesn't produce enough torque(in stock form) to threaten the drivetrain. Software is available for the '04s to eliminate it, but driveline parts, unless beefed up, will suffer.

The GTOs are difficult to launch and it takes practice to determine the ideal formula.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TinInjun:
...Its tough defending the GTO to the Ford guys when they see what it really runs at the track. They know I'm a die hard Pontiac guy and they hit me with both barrells when they see its real world performance... QUOTE]

What do you consider "real world performance"? I felt the same way when I started attending muscle car shootout type events in the late 80's... Perfectly restored RA IV GTO's, Stage 1 Buicks, SD TA's, Hemi Roadrunners... All running high 14's and low 15's! Quite a letdown... Did they lie when they told me these things had 400 HP?

Fortunately today we have chassis dynos and they are what they are. Consider this: The Holden throws 350HP to the rollers and weighs 3900#... You do the math. Not running in the 13's can't be blamed on the car.

Now having said all that, after reading the posts at LS1GTO you would think this is the baddest car that has ever been produced... It certainly is not. I get the impression that most of these guys are stepping out of Honda Civics into this car, and that might lead them to believe this car is the last word in fast, but who could blame them?

But sticking to the facts, the Holden makes XXX horsepower and weighs XXXX. What it should run can be found with a calculator.

Owning a new GTO and taking it to the track doesn't make you an experienced drag racer or guarantee you'll run low 13's. I don't take mine to the track (don't really feel the need), but I do take it out on county roads around my house and open her up. Stock 0-60 times for an '05 are supposed to be 4.6 to 4.7 seconds. I've personally done 4.3...not every time mind you, I'm inconsistent and sometimes I'm downright slow. But my point is it's all about the driver with this car. Launching is critical as you drag racers well know, but with IRS and Torque Management this is not an easy car to launch consistently. Wheel hop will kill your times, especially with a 6-speed and stock tires. As for the times boasted on LS1GTO.com? Who knows if they're telling the truth unless they've posted video to back up their claims? (many do by the way) But this is, after all, the internet, and everyone (even here on PY) could be blowing smoke up your skirt. I take it all with a grain of salt, and I enjoy the hell out of my cars no matter what anyone says.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinInjun:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
As we learn that altitude is 4200 feet and in the 80's it's no surprise that the cars were running slower and a blower GTP might keep up with it. It makes all the sense in the world now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You obviously have no expirence with a blower car if you think that. Heat and humitity have the same effects on a blown engine as they do on a NA engine. Maybe more so a problem with a blown engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was actually talking about the ALTITUDE and how the blowers would benefit better than the NA cars. Also, I do know about them, I used to race my fathers GTP, right off the street onto the track in NH it ran 14.8 bone stock with 60K miles on it.

I for one will be looking forward to seeing them run at Norwalk. I wish i could get my hands on '05 stick. I'd make it run... http://pysales.com/images/evil.gif

At the PSN Brian I have a [email protected] one day (Friday night test and tune)and a [email protected] and a 13.96 @99.52 the next day. But lots of 14.3s @97 as the day warmed. Same launch technique every time, in Drive so it did the shifting.Mid may Dallas so not cool air.

Moroso has 100mph as a 13.00, and 300hp for a 3950lbs car.Its and 04, and chassis dynoed 282.It's a definite mid 13s car sometimes.

If I can get my daughter off the computer I'll be glad to scan the time slips for you.Got 15 of them that weekend if you need to see a real one.They are just all over the place.

I think I've got enough seat time at the drags to launch consistently,2.1s usually the car just does what it wants mid range because of the computer.If you do light them up(I did very first run hard)it does wheel hop hard .

A friend stopped in at our familly picnic yesterday with his 04. Black on Black 6 speed. Good looking car for the body lines. As 455HOGT37 said "It is also a lot bigger than people seem to realize". With it setting next to my Lemans is see that now. I wanted to take it a spin but I had a couple drinks and thought I better not.

(sorry the pic sucks, it was getting dark and this was the best I could get)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">At the PSN Brian I have a [email protected] one day (Friday night test and tune)and a [email protected] and a 13.96 @99.52 the next day. But lots of 14.3s @97 as the day warmed. Same launch technique every time, in Drive so it did the shifting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this man can drive, trust me.... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lethal-428-lemans:
Good looking car for the body lines. As 455HOGT37 said "It is also a lot bigger than people seem to realize". With it setting next to my Lemans is see that now. I wanted to take it a spin but I had a couple drinks and thought I better not.

(sorry the pic sucks, it was getting dark and this was the best I could get) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, pictures don't really do it justice and it is bigger in person than you would expect. Black and midnight blue cars actually look smaller than the other colors too. I commend you for your excellent choice of not taking it for a spin too. Even without any booze it's difficult to not get overzealous with this car, and it can get away from you in a heartbeat if you're not very careful.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lethal-428-lemans:
"It is also a lot bigger than people seem to realize". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah and that trunk is huge. Not. This time I am bashing the new GTO. The trunk is a joke. At least your LeMans has a trunk you can take your family on vacation with. Ain't going to happen with the new GTO. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif

I was at the POCI race with my son. I was hopeing to impress him. He is torn between the new Mustang and the new GTO. The new GTO's were(for lack of a better word).... sad. Mid 14's at best. TinInjun would have smoked em all with his GTP. It was hot and humid but it was that way for everyone. At least it was a little cooler than the Shootout the day before. Any idea what 12.36/113 factors out to at 4200' and 100 plus track temps? -Jim

It's an auto, even you can drive that Danny... http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_razz.gif

Yes, Skip has skills. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

The Auto Fbodys were slower than the sticks, until you got the converter.
The Auto NEEDS the converter, and a tune and it's an automatic (pun intended) .5+ improvement.

The sticks need a computer tune and a driver.

I watched the BMR GTO go thru every step, as they used RevXtreme and Jeremy Formato to Dyno and tune it... It started slow, and now it's running low 10's...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DiamondJim:
Any idea what 12.36/113 factors out to at 4200' and 100 plus track temps? -Jim </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
11.72 @ 119

But I know this 04 GTO runs pretty well...

RX did a Cam and ProCharger install, along with a Jeremy Formato tune and I think they ended up with over 560 RWHP... The tape ends early as the owner had to leave.

http://video.ls1tech.com/Player.aspx?fileid=600938CF-76...69-B779-A56967C121B1

There was a '02? Duramax GMC Diesel running 113 mph in around the 11s I think it the tow vehicle catagory. TinInjun might have a better idea than me. All I know is it was mega-fast.

I saw the diesel run. He was really flying. Awesome truck. I don't think he ran the tow truck class though, beleive he ran Warrior(not sure). Thanks TinInjun for the info http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif. Any idea when the Atlanta Shootout will start showing up in HPP? -Jim

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinInjun:
Yeah and that trunk is huge. Not. This time I am bashing the new GTO. The trunk is a joke. At least your LeMans has a trunk you can take your family on vacation with. Ain't going to happen with the new GTO. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


It is because the fuel tank is in the trunk to make the Feds happy for crash standards and to get a true dual exhaust on the GTO. The new 08 GTO won't have that problem.

I was funny how little the trunk was.

Has anyone had any truoble with their speedo & temp guage in the 04's? The guy that had that one said his speedo went all the way around once when he started it and the temp maxed out. He also had some trouble with the radio control on the wheel.

he said it has an auto shut off that you can set for whatever speed you want. he set it for 30mph once just to see what would happen and it didn't shut off.

I don't know any thing about the new GTO's, I told him to join the board and ask some of the guys on here.