I am putting together research on 1969 GTO Judge drag racers from 1969 and am trying to locate these individuals or anyone that remembers them or the cars
1. Fred Borcherdt -Lived in Deleware/ New Jersey

2. Gary Moore -Lived in Tulia , Texas

3. Colonial Pontiac -dealership was in Miami , Florida

they all had orange 1969 Judges that raced in D/S.

I am putting together research on 1969 GTO Judge drag racers from 1969 and am trying to locate these individuals or anyone that remembers them or the cars
1. Fred Borcherdt -Lived in Deleware/ New Jersey

2. Gary Moore -Lived in Tulia , Texas

3. Colonial Pontiac -dealership was in Miami , Florida

they all had orange 1969 Judges that raced in D/S.

Wow cool idea, good luck!

Old '69 Judge Thread
 

Wow ! While doing a search, I ran across this thread, which is nearly 20 years old.

Nobody offered any help to the OP. But, since I now have some, I'll post it.

And, while I'm at it, I'll go ahead & post all the pics I have of '69 Judge class cars. Don't know of any in modern times, certainly not in this century.

So, when was the last time you guys knew of a '69 Judge, running either Stock or Super Stock ?

The OP mentioned Colonial Pontiac. I now have 4 pics related to Colonial Pontiac & the "Colonial Banshee" '69 Judge.

He also mentioned Gary Moore. I'm not saying he never raced a Judge. But I've never run across any pics of one he raced. I have pics of a '61 he raced, a '71 Bird, & even a '68 Bird. Have probably mentioned it here, but he was div 4 Stock champ in '68 & set the F/S record @ the '69 Winter Nats, driving the '61.

The OP also mentioned Fred Borcherdt. His name is on the famous John Thropp '57 Pontiac. Right now, I'm not aware of a '69 Judge he was connected to. But, if I run across his name in connection to one, I'll add it to this thread.

5 Orange
 

Here are 5 color pics I have of orange Judge Stockers.

Among these are race & class winners, as well as nat record holders.

More Orange
 

Not all my pics are in color. But, sometimes you can sorta tell that the car was orange, even tho it's a b&w pic of it.

Other Colors
 

Most Pontiac guys know that later in the '69 model year, the Judge was available in other colors.

Can't say which cars were real Judges. I suppose all a guy needed to do was put a rear deck spoiler on a reg GTO & call it a Judge. Don't think the inside or outside decals/emblems would be necessary.

I did read that Royce Fowler bought his Judge new, & began to race it almost immediately. We saw him race it at Amarillo, back in around 1976.

I suppose there were quite a few dealers who actually raced a new Judge, in '69, then sold it.

Just found this. It says that Fred Borcherdt was connected with the "Rocky's Goat" '69 Judge.

http://www.classracer.com/classforum...5&postcount=23

Can not verify, one way or the other. But, the '69 Judge "Rocky's Goat" did have "N.H.R.A. Record Holder" on the roof, just over the door.

"...In May,1970 Fred set the NHRA E/SA National Record 12.10 @ 114.79 MPH..."

George Cureton bought the car & ran it @ Indy, I think it was in 1970. For that race it had #17 on it.

Love the vintage pics and amazing you dug up a 19 yr old thread!

Did anyone notice that the first car in this thread (colonial banshee) has a power antenna?

I suspect it’s not a real Judge because of it, also in the very first pic you can just see the leading edge of the grille and it looks silver rather than black.

Very nifty thread, love all these vintage photos.

Incredible resurrection of an old post
Thanks Ponyakr , Great Stuff
some of these pics i have never seen before

I'm 99% sure it is. If you look at old ads from magazines at the time, there's an ad of one of the car's sponsors showing cars using a particular product. So look at the sponsor decals on the car and find a 1969-70 magazine with ads from that company, and you'll likely find mention of the car and driver.

The Colonial Motors Judge (The Banshee) was a 69 super duty driven by Jess Jessen who wrenched at Colonial Motors. This car took part in the trials conducted by Milt Shornack and the crew from Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac when they trailered to Florida for trials (this adventure is described in Milt's book). The car is still around and is in the hands of a well known Pontiac afficianado, Colonial Motors was a performance shop that reciprocated with Royal Pontiac. An interesting feature of this car is the placement of gauges in the vinyl portion of the dash that mirrored the factory mule created by Milt Shornack.While the 69 taken by Royal to Florida had some "problems". Jess Jessen's "Banshee" ran flawlessly in the trials.

Thanks for the additional info on the Colonial Car being the Orange Car in Florida.
That whole original article was somewhat dissected/analyzed by SteveHoog / SteveD400 years and years ago on here.
It was very interesting / informative.
Not sure (but maybe it was, and i forgot) that the Orange Car was ever identified in/from the original article.
So that is really cool - by its timeslips it was assumed to be a Ram4 car.

The Royal GTO had a RamV TunnelPort engine , that car gave troubles there.
Royal also had a Bird there.
Those guys were living our dreams back then.

I am guessing that calling it a 69 SuperDuty in the Colonial Car was a typo ?
What type of engine is in it now ?

Just trying to provide additional clarity -

I am not sure the article they dissected about the Florida Testing was from Milt's Book - or if it was an actual article from a magazine of the day and time - or if it was an article from SmokeSignals or HPPontiac Magazine.

Someone else will know more regarding all that.

Mainly they were trying to find any microscopic evidence from old photos that if the Bird might have had a TunnelPort V engine in it at anytime , in Florida.
But they sort of covered everything else in-between too.
fwiw

A picture of "The Banshee" appears on page 158 of Milt Shornack and the Royal Bobcat GTOs. As to the engine in the car now,I was given the impression that it is the same engine as was installed at the time trials. Now,I'm going out on a limb now, but the explanation given to me was that the engine is a 400 with Ram Air V heads. Maybe I've been reading too much Pete McCarthy!

Colonial Car -very slim- that it could have had a RamV at the Winter Test.
more than likely it did not
Would have been faster ET's
It was however - turning peak Ram4 ET's

iirc the Royal Boys were not allowed to touch the RamV in their car after it had problems, engine came straight from engineering - with strict prohibitions.

Colonial could not have competed in D/S class with any RamV heads.
Ponyakr might know if there was a modified class the RamV heads would run in, but definitely not allowed in the D/S class they ran when competing.

Ram4's didn't start going out in "production line cars" until around March or April 69
So they were a new kind of thing too

69 Judges didn't hit public streets until Feb 69 (Ram3 cars only)

steves research proved that the famous turquoise and white gto never had a ram air 5 in it back then. among other stories that were debunked. sure miss my good friend.

He was good at those type things, had a very sharpened inquiring mind.
i think some of it rubbed off on some of us. ;)

i need to go back and dig that old thread back up, and re-read it.
Had thought the GTO did have a 5 in it @ Florida, and the Bird was de-bunked.

For 100% sure though, we found out the Turq/Wht GTO was a factory WT Base Engine car - As Built
Which makes full sense, since Ram3 and Ram4 engines were not going into cars yet, when it was built.

Probably a fair number of the Orange race cars were not factory built Judges on their PHS Invoices. We do know that some really are (today) by their Invoices

Wondering if the OP has ever been made aware of all this excellent research?

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...5&d=1388559537

The Hangin Judge still exists. I often saw it rotting away in an alley in Corning, NY back in the 1980's. Now it is in the same owners small garage with crap piled all over it. Last seen by me 5 years ago.

cool car, do you remember if it was a ra4 car?

Think it was a RA3 but 4 speed. Guy won't sell it. Same story of gonna fix it someday, but apparent that he doesn't have the finances to do so.

My dad also raced D/S at Atco, Cecil, Englishtown, Maple Grove, and an old Air Force base in NJ somewhere. Here are a couple of photos, but maybe even better, some old 8mm film we found and had converted when my father passed. I own the car today. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/ics508Gu9kU

Very cool video! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for sharing the video. It brought back memories for me of racing at Suffolk Raceway back in the mid 80's. I remember having to get your time slip to see if you won as the win lights were around the 1/8 mile mark.

And congratulations on still owning the car.

I got a 69 Judge from Don White. Black with parchment interior- 15000 original miles. Original paint and interior. Inside of trunk was full of class win stickers. Maybe Don has some pics of it he could post on here.

That is a super cool car.
Seems like there was barely any room left on the underside for any more Win stickers.
It was loaded full of them.

He posted some pics of it on here when he first got it

I grew up about 45 minutes from Suffolk Raceway/airport. Spent many Sundays there in the early and mid 70's.

I noticed the “Big Iron” RAIV Judge in an ad of the March 1970 Super Stock magazine I have. I figured this would be a good place to post it.

Back in the 80's and 90's we were building houses and our mason was Dan Miller from Durham maine. I had my 70 gto and I also dragraced a lemans. I got talking to him and he told me he had some left over parts from a 69 judge he had bought brand new. I went over to his house and he gave me the original bell housing,D port ram air exhaust manifolds,NOS lifters and swirl polished valves,cam,springs and I think that was it. He said he raced it from new and showed me a framed pic he had at the track. It said the hanging judge on the side. The car was long gone and he didnt know what had happened to it after he sold it.
I still remember back in 82 i stopped at a new car dealership near me and one of the workers there had a very nice 69 judge 4 speed for sale for 1500.00. I told him Id be back with the money,,,went back with my father and he talked me out of it because the starter would act up now and then. I bought my 70 with 38000 original miles in 1986 for 1700.00 but always regretted not buying the 69.

Help locate GTO Judge drag racers from 1969
 

My father bought the hangin judge from him years ago. Engine broke down before I was born and I spent my whole life sitting in it waiting for the day I’d finally drive it. I’m finally having it restored now after about 40 years. Check out the license plate.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8d183fbc3f.jpg

Welcome, jwood82d!

Awesome that you're getting it running again.
Long time sitting in it, now the need for Speed I bet.

:)

Definitely! The original owner swapped the 400 out with a Pontiac 428 that we still have and are getting bored out and stroked. We’re redoing the stripes, lettering, and decals with a few small adjustments, but we’re going to make it as close to what it looked like on the drag strip back in the day. It still has the ladder bars, but I am most likely opting to replace the 4.56 rear end with a 3.73 for driveability’s sake. Excitement doesn’t begin to describe how I feel.


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Wow.
Dan and Nate Miller

Looks like Hurst wheels are on it too !
What cylinder heads were on it ?

You’re from jersey and your name is all rise. Did you happen to also own race boats? Namely a red sutphen?

Great video I showed up for the judge and stayed for the BIRD! Awesome video and music.
That sutphen was all risk not all rise, I always forget that name . We had one of these boats and it was red so I always remembered it to some extent.

A lot of times the boat guys also owned race cars like I did .

I have actually seen this car in action. Your father used to drive down Route 17 and turn around at Crystal Lanes and then rip by my house. It was a very intimidating car. I think it was around the mid '80's I saw the car and the motor was already out at that point and then years later I talked to your father asking how the car was doing and he said his son was very interested and it would go to him to get it back on the road again. So glad to see you plan to keep it like it was in the old days. I drive by that garage all the time hoping to see the door open. It's nice knowing your father's plan is working out like he wanted. Hoping it will stay local so I might see it on the streets again.

GREAT car & GREAT story! I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to see progress pics!

Thanks! I’m new to this community so I’ll have to figure out the best way to get a new post going so I can continue to post progress pics. Super early still but in the middle of getting new 1/4s and outter wheel wells. A buddy of mine is detailing the old ones with “valley performance” written on them to hang up.


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At the top of the 69-71 Judges only Tech section is a button that says 'New Thread' click that and get started.


:)


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1691875577

Omg,,,I can't believe you've got that car!! Thats awesome it's still around and that you're restoring it! Dan and his son did alot of masonry work over those years for us and he was one of the best around. Always liked talking cars with him. He had himself a new vette at the time. He used to tell me stories he knew back in the day with bruce bartels which i also knew. Sorry that they both have passed. Would love to see some pics of before and after of the judge.

Just went back through the pics and saw post 21 is the pic of Dan's car??

Help locate GTO Judge drag racers from 1969
 

Yup that was the car after my dad bought it from Dan. Sorry to hear he passed. My dad did some masonry at the time too, from Subattus. I would have loved to see pictures of when Dan had it at the track which is how I stumbled on this thread. Still early in the resto but I plan on making a new post at some point to upload pics to. Excited we’ll be having a sign artist repainting the pintstripes and lettering by hand.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...085cc81e36.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...feda1704ac.jpg

I bet Dan's son has some pictures. So it sounds like it's in NY?

Pics

That is absolutely incredible!! Never thought I’d see any anout it from before my dad got it. That is amazing how different it looks. Thank you for sharing these!!!


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Fred Borcherdt "The Judge" 1969 GTO
 

Fred Borcherdt is my father and is 85 today!

I have a bunch of old photos and memorabilia from his racing days.

He would love to do an interview if you want!
[IMG]file:///C:/Clients/GTO%20Judge/judge_gto_airplane%20.jpg[/IMG]

Happy Birthday to your Dad!!!


An interview would be great.


:)