I just got a short shaft TH400 and I'm thinking about building it to go behind my 455. I have a couple of TH350's and experience building them but I'm thinking the 400 would be better. I know the 1st gear is higher and they rob more power plus weigh more but what do you guys think?
I figure building one should be about the same as a 350.
Pros and cons...
Thanks

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.030 over 455. Balanced and blue-painted.

I just got a short shaft TH400 and I'm thinking about building it to go behind my 455. I have a couple of TH350's and experience building them but I'm thinking the 400 would be better. I know the 1st gear is higher and they rob more power plus weigh more but what do you guys think?
I figure building one should be about the same as a 350.
Pros and cons...
Thanks

http://images.andale.com/f2/129/111/...0827_39172.jpg
http://motorhead.iwarp.com
.030 over 455. Balanced and blue-painted.

I used to have a (*choke*) Nova that I had a Chevy 350 in it.I went through 2 TH350's before I put a TH400 truck transmission into it.I had to cut the drive shaft down to make it fit but I never again had any more slipping from the trans.

Hope this helps.

Charlie

I brought this up a while back. 400 almost bullet proof from factory. 350 lighter and better gearing. Will keep an eye on this post myself, one reason I am going 350 is just because I have one.

Turbo 400 is much more durable, especially behind a 455.
I would (and do) give up the power and weight to have dependability.
I have broken two turbo 350s behind 455s. I replaced them with turbo 400s. The turbo 400s are still going strong.

Todd

I have been running a transbraked TH400 in my 455 powered bracket car for nearly 10 years now. The trans has never been out of the car, still hangin' tough with only fluid and filter changes. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Let's go racing!
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They say the th400 as far as durability is "one of the best, if not THE best, transmissions ever made." heres a link to the info. click on the comparisons link and go down to th 350 then to th400 and compare, I like the 400 having gone thru 2 350s myself.
http://442.com/oldsfaq/oftrn.htm#TRA...n%20Comparison

http://www.mensexpo.com.futuresite.r...s/tigeranm.gif
GR-RRR!

The TH400 is excellent, whereas the TH350 is marginally good. I have had a few TH350'S go south, but never had a TH400 fail. The Chrysler TQ727 is also with the TH400 for the title as best automotive auto transmission.

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/files/77canam.jpg

I think if the TH350 is propperley prepped and built with good parts it is just as reliable as the 400 however the 400 wont require the upgrades the 350 had to have to live, so you make th choice. Im running a 350 right now but plan to go to a 400 later on [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Mike

every person I ask in a tranny shop says TH400 was and still is the best ever

can you hear me now? is this thing on? test 1 2 1 2

Whats the deal Hoffman? I thought you were going for a 200R4. I was waiting for you to do all the legwork so I could plagerize it. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

This guy gave me a 400. I'm still thinking about the 200 and I may still do it. (waiting for someone to give me one [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img])
I'm sort of scared to put $600 into a grenade...

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.030 over 455. Balanced and blue-painted.

Well check out that link i put up there, they cover 2004r's also. Lots of info on all of em. 2004r is tempting, just spooky for how expensive it would be to do em right, if right still isnt enough. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

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GR-RRR!

I ran a T-350 highly highly modified and broke 3 before I went with a T-400 (with only a sprag and clutch upgrade). 3 years later finally going to Freshen it.
But after breaking 2 $300 hub assemblies and 10's of dollars in parts. It wasn't worth it.


"If your going to run into the mid to low 11's Ok. The Modified T-350 might hold up." [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]



BTW; Changed to the 400 and ran the same ET 60ft'er and MPH. In the 10 flat range to high 9 range.

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.
http://PontiacDude.cc

I've done a lot of research on 2004r's and about half of the sources said it'll last and the other half, well... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
The local trans shop I work with said to go with a 10 vane pump and a billet servo and it should be good to go. I told them I'm probably going to be making 400 plus hp and LOTS of torque.
Of course agreement on the TH400 is universal...
Probably need to get the engine together first.
Should have the heads done by March.

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.030 over 455. Balanced and blue-painted.

If installing a T-400 requires cutting down the driveline, why can't you use a drive line out a car that had the 400/400 setup in it? What is different between the setups?

My other life has meaning....

I believe I have posted this in the past but when I was running 11.30s in my GP I switched from a TH350 to a TH400. Admittedly the TH350 had held up behind my 400 motor but I felt that it could not last much longer so I made the change just for peace of mind. I had resigned the fact that I would see a loss in ET/MPH but for the long-term plan this was the way to go. Well after the changeover my ET hand no difference and MPH was actually up by .5! The way I see it if you are planning to go with a TH350 for weight and HP savings you are better off going to a TH400. I went with that same idea when the GP was going together and looking back if I had this knowledge then I would have saved myself both time and money by using the TH400 in the first place.

with out questions there can be no answers

1969 Grand Prix
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This is probalby a pretty dumb question but is the TH400 a 4 speed?

Tyler

3-speed.

Todd

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper, the closer you get to the end the faster it goes."

Here is a link to a th-400, www.transmissioncenter.net/200-4R.htm I thought it sounded reasonable. I ended up having my 400 rebuilt w/2400 stall and added a gear vendor unit.
I have no idea if this place is good or not, just found it when surfing.

Hoffman, check out Art Carr's site for the 200 as well

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Nothing is real if you don't believe in yourself-Rocky Balboa

Has anybody done / seen a swap to a GM 4L80E trans in an A-body? It's basically the TH400 w/overdrive used in the dualies and heavy-duty trucks. (The 4L60E is the like the TH350, and is used in the Impala SS and others.) Looking into eventually going to this trans as I'm wanting the overdrive, and getting the 200R4 to live on a 400/455 costs about $800 in internal parts just to start with.

The point to life isn't necessarilly the decimal.

The 4L80E is a pain in the ass for a swap because they are electronically controlled, adding extreme complexity and expense, they are extremely heavy and large, even compared to a regular TH400, AND they are Chevy bellhousing pattern ONLY, so a adapter will have to be used.

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/files/77canam.jpg

For the coin involved in doing a 4L80 you could do a TH400 with a gear vendors OD. That would be the end-all OD... If the price of a GV were around a grand I could think about it.

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.030 over 455. Balanced and blue-painted.

A wise man once told me to use a 4L80 out of a Diesel, it has a stand alone electronic control... Hummm... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

I've looked into the Gear Vendors unit, and it costs more than the 4L80E at $2200! That's not a typo folks - $2200! Not to mention the 'adjustments' that would have to be made to the floorpan to get it to fit, but according to the manufacturer, will put up with 1200+HP.
In researching the 4L80E, the basic dimensions are about the same as the TH400. Don't care about the adapter. Some small clearance problems will have to be alleved with the floorboards, but those will be under the console, so nobody will know. For the computer interface, David you are correct. Jet and a few other companies also make a stand-alone box that can be programmed with a laptop, or one actually had a programmer you could buy if you didn't have a laptop. The 4L80E is supposed to be stout enough for at least 900HP, but I cannot get a solid number from anybody. Either way, my new motor is putting out 650HP, so I'll be covered. I've found the trans for $1300 with converter, and the computer box for $200, so it's cheaper than the Gear Vendors. A custom converter will be $400 to $500, but you'll pay that for a good converter for a TH400.

I've found one company that has this transmission with automatic shifts (no computer needed) and a lock-up converter. Comes with a Transgo stage two shift kit and Red Eagle clutches, band and Kolene steels for $2595.00.
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80E.htm


I was just wondering if anybody has seen an actual installed trans to find out about the rest of the process - trans crossmember, cooling, etc.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80ETrans.jpg

Transmission Ratios (1st, 2nd, 3rd, OD)
Turbo 350 2.52 1.52 1 N/A
Turbo 400 2.48 1.48 1 N/A
200- 4R 2.74 1.57 1 0.67
700R4 / 4L60 / 4L60E 3.06 1.63 1 0.7
4L80E 2.48 1.48 1 0.75


The point to life isn't necessarilly the decimal.

[This message was edited by PMDRACER on December 15, 2002 at 01:06 PM.]

I would love to run one as well. If I come up with any more info I will pass it along.

Please let me know how the install goes.

Is $1300 the going junkyard rate?

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.030 over 455. Balanced and blue-painted.

a gm stock tranny?

**** breaks, then u buy the good stuff

Yeah. Called a few GM salvage yards. $1300+/- seems to be the going price. Hopefully the prices will drop as more of these are available.

And yes, that's for the stock trans. Pretty stout.

The point to life isn't necessarilly the decimal.

found out some interesting info about the 400. Pepsi bought a special version tranny from GM for their Chevy C30 trucks, different ratios, straight cut gears, and will fit in BOP casing. Anyone heard of this?

What about the auto found in the new TA's? It is a 4 speed isn't it? I want to find a tranny with OD as well because I can't afford the 6-speed anymore.

Tyler

Tyler, the 4-speed auto 4L60E comes in late T/A and Z-28 cars, my new T/A has one in it. It is electronically controlled and quite expensive, not your best choice. The ideal (not too pricey, strong enough when built right and fairly easy to install) overdrive 4-speed auto to swap into your '68 Firebird would be the 200-4R. My friend has one in his 550hp 11-second street car and it works well.

Let's go racing!
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Isn't the 4L60E a 700R4 with some electronic goodies?

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.030 over 455. Balanced and blue-painted.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoffman7476:
Isn't the 4L60E a 700R4 with some electronic goodies? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is. It's a bit more than a few extra goodies, but the same basic box.

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Thanks B.

Tyler

What's up with the "R4" and "4R" deals? I always get 'em mixed up when talking about 700/200.

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.030 over 455. Balanced and blue-painted.

Early 700R-4's, those made prior to mid-year 87 are full of "soft" internals and "weak" areas. They are not the best choice for an HP applications and the main reason 700's have a bad reputation. The 87-92 700's (4L60) are tough units. They not only contain correctly "hardened" internals but many factory upgrades including: solid stator shaft teflon seals, hardened stator, hd low and OD sprags, 10 vane pump w/hardened rings, improved 3-4 clutchpack, improved direct and fwd clutchpacks, valve body improvements, improvements to planetaries, sun shell and I probably missed a few things. Bottom line, they are dirt cheap to purchase, plenty of them around and relatively inexpensive (in comparison to other OD's) to prepare. Downside is the 3.06 first gear in a Pontiac application, we have too much starting line tq anyhow, having to use an adapter plate and they are longer than a TH350 and the mount is a couple of inches further back. The 200-4R seems to get all the publicity for retrofitting into Pontiac's. In my opinion they are OK, somewhat over-rated, very expensive and the survival rate is spotty. Have seen strong running GN's kill the best prepared units in just a couple of hard runs. They hold up OK in 11 second and slower GN's. Most survive a season or two of racing, but they ALWAYS fail, at least from what I've seen......Cliff

First, nice car. Second, the 4L80E listed on the link was full manual only. I have a 4L80E that will be installed in my 72' Lemans. I designed a splitter to achieve a 2.48, 1.86, 1.48, 1.00, .075 gear box. If the freakin body shop gets done- I'll put it to the test. The new "second" speed is optional and is electrically switched if desired. Some strength was sacrificed in the design, but I have to try it.

TTS -
Thanks for the compliment.

And, you're right. The trans pictured is a full auto (manual), but you can get it minus the $275 valve body that makes it this way, and keep the automatic features of a normal automatic trans.

Please let me know how it goes with the install!!!

TIGER EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection for the Traditional Pontiac Engine. [email protected]

I was just wondering what the price tag on a 200-4R built properly would be. (US or CAN funds). I just want to be ready when I talk to the tranny shop :-)

Tyler

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by b-man:
Tyler, the 4-speed auto 4L60E comes in late T/A and Z-28 cars, my new T/A has one in it. It is electronically controlled and quite expensive, not your best choice. The ideal (not too pricey, strong enough when built right and fairly easy to install) overdrive 4-speed auto to swap into your '68 Firebird would be the 200-4R. My friend has one in his 550hp 11-second street car and it works well.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, where did he get the tranny? Thinking about swapping my th350 for a 200-4r in my 75 T/A. I'm in Burbank. Thanks.

My Hughes 700R4 and converter has served me well in my GTO listed below, accumulating 40,000 miles (multiple cross country trips) and more than 300 passes on slicks. http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif

As Cliff mentioned, the 3.06 low gear makes it a challenge to "hookup", but the GTO has run a best short time of 1.71 (13.01 @ 103.5) in spite of 3.08 final gearing and a mild performance motor (335rwhp).

Les

Last time at the track with my TH-350 I ran high 7.60's (1/8 mile) with 1.7x short times before I tossed the driveshaft. Replaced the TH-350 with a TH-400, went from 4.10's to 3.55's, went from 3400 stall to 4200 stall, put in caltracs, and put in a 10 point cage. Next trip to the track (probably ~175 lbs heavier) netted a 7.56 with a 1.60 short time; no tuning changes to the engine at all. I don't think the TH-400 hurt me that much.

A friend of mine has a 2nd gen bird with a TH-350 running low 10's on spray behind a stout 455 and somehow it lives. Some are lucky and some are not it seems.

I want the strongest driveline stuff I can afford so that's why the TH-400 went in. One less thing to worry about.

A plain jane rebuilt TH 350 lasted 8 years of racing til I had enough power to get in the low 11s. Convertor sent trash at the same time too. New convertor and a TH 350 from Phoenix trannies cars in the high 10s.

Bowite Overdirves and several others build 200Rs. Lots of those Buick GN guys use them deep in the 10s but then they don't have the grunt of a 455 Pontiac.

Does andyone make a higher first gear for a 700? Seems like there would be a demand for it for torquey motor that don't need a 3.08 first gear.

I switched from turbo 350 to 400 in my 80 bird and don't think the tranny hurt me much either.I did install a 2400 stall at same time and already had 3.42 gears in the rear end.
I did some net surfing and forget but really don't think the turbo 400 is actually that much heavier than the turbo 350.I seem to remember maybe twenty or thirty pounds.
And also doubt it actually robs much more hp and do feel have more piece of mind with it.
I got mine for like 500 or so rebuilt US funds approx.I also bought chevy turbo 400 and used an adapter think made by tranadapt to hook it to my 400 pontiac.It works fine.

I have used both the TH 400 and TH 350 in my 68 GTO drag car. I started with the TH400 and then went to the TH350 with a few other minor mods to the car to get it faster. This was because the 1/8 mile track I usually run at had a time break of 7.50 for two of the classes. My car would run just above or below depending on the weather. Personally I think a properly set up TH350 is ok until you get over 450 to 500 HP.

By the way I solved my jumping betweeen the classes problem. Re-did the engine this past winter. Dynoed out at 638HP and has ran a best of 6.50 in th 1/8 mile. Oh, and I went back to a TH400. Know anybody looking for a race-ready TH350? With the dual bolt pattern case even!

I may be interested. email me with information and price. I am needing anothe tranny, and am thinking of sticking with the TH350, so i don't have to find a TH400 crossmember, change driveshaft and figure out the shift linkage.
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