Quick Ratio Steering Boxes
 

I'm looking for a quick ratio steering box for my 68 GTO. Can anyone comment on the boxes offered by PY or Ames? How about parts stores like Napa, etc.? How do they compare with having the existing box rebuilt by one of the restoration services?

Not concerned with correct factory markings or anything like that, just a quicker-turn-to-turn ratio and better road feel.

Thanks,

Mike

The fastest sagiaw box on a production vehicle, believe it or not, is on a jeep cherokee, the little jeep suv. Blts on to a GTO, your power steer pitman arm bolts onto it.Steering column bolts to it. One problem, the old power steer hoses need an adapter, cuz your going from flair fitting to bubble fitting. IF you use your old pump.Lee manufacturing makes an adapter for a few bucks.
It's even a faster box than the latter Mone Carlo SS, I have a link to a web site that breaks it all down on my old desktop, i will try to get it. I know it works, theres one on my 66 GS, i drive it hard and it's almost squirley...lol
kinda vette fast, I put bigger/wider tires on it and ya can turn on a dime and give 9 cents change!
You have to upgrade your pump too, the faster box needs more fluid, it took the pump from the jeep and it slipped ito my resivoir, so no need for the adpters, really a bolt in, cost me 75 bucks at a yard. Make sure it's the little square jeep cherokee, the grand cherokee is slower.

Would this swap also work for a 2nd gen bird. I would be interested in doing this on my 73 firebird. Thanks.

YES, any GM with a saginaw box. Works on 67-69 Birds too, the sector shft on Sags, have 4 symetrical keys, ya just turn the pitman around on it's axis for front steer or rear steer.

That is great news. Any idea what year jeeps to go for. Thanks.

90's is what i remeber, i just look for the little square ones, and pull it all, The one on my GS is from a 2 door 2 wd.I am trying to find the link with all the info, it is on my old desk top, i will hook'er back up and find it tonight and post it (i said hooker)
mark

Look here www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref29.html

Todd

Miker, on my 67 GTO, I used a quick ratio box, out of a Grand National, Got it at Napa, Bolted right in, They will need your old as a core.

Now, I was given the tip on the grand national box, by a poster here, but it might be the same as other GM quick's. Drives like a dream. No mod's will be needed.
You will need a pitman arm puller too, Napa has them too, even though Jegs/ summitt has them too, and they are cheaper. I only used it for about 1 minute anyway.
I needed to get a new rag joint too, but PY has them.
Happy Steering.....Very easy to do.

I got mine from partsamerica.com was a direct bolt in, looks just like the old one, was a Cardone, $128

WHich one did you get, Jeep, or GN?

Bobby,
Was that Cardone a quick steer box? If so, how many turns lock to lock.
I was over at the PA site & they offer no info on site.
Box I found was PT#276537 is that the one you used?
Thanks.
Jeff

I bought mine from a guy Named Colin out of Az. I will have to dig around to find his address... He was pretty fairly priced. I think I paid $135.00 for mine????

The jeep box needs different line fittings, is this also true for the GN box or not?

I went to the partsamerica site and the part number is indeed the same for a 68 GTO and the Grand National for the cardone box. $128 is a great price. How is the "feel" with these boxes?" I'd like to get something that feels a little stiffer than the stock box too. My stock 68 is just too easy to turn.

If a GN box bolts right into the older GM cars I would assume the PT#276550 would be the one to get. That is the box used when the vehicle is setup with performance suspension packages. I would assume that would be the box with a quicker ratio right? This is also the same box that is used on the third gen camaros, again with the performace suspension packages. Do these late model boxs use the same type of fluid line fittings as our older vehicles¿?

Direct bolt in. Fittings, Steering shaft for the pitman arm, bolts everything....
The steering is not stiff, it turns very easy. But the stops are the same, and I think it was 2.8 turns.....
Napa has them in stock, don't pay the frieght, those suckers are heavy.

Mine was part number 276509, it was a quick ratio around 3 turns lock to lock. Steering effort is no different, just as "easy" as it was before, just less turning. All lines ect were identical to original a direct bolt in. I have a 67 GTO with Power Steering. Shipping with a power steering pump as well was $11

So bobbyj1 you like your new box or would you have liked to try a box from a jeep?

Thats the link, GN bolts in but has bubble fittings, as does the Jeep, Lee manufacturing makes the adapter for like 10 bucks, 3rd gen camaro has the wrong stops, the thing wont turn completey, takes a mile to turn around. My car has the Jeep. Feels tighter, but not "hard" I love it. I have used the Monte SS/and GN/Grand Prix boxes, and this one feels better, the Jeep that is. Fast box for the Monte and GN is FA and is stamped on the box, My buddy has a 3rd gen z-28 box on his 442, couldn't drive it, he sent it to Lee manufacturing and the changed the stops, for 4oo freakin bucks. AND it is no faster than the Jeep...haha. Save the money, buy a jeep box! When ya go ask for it they dont get that, I'm gonna rape ya look! I tried to buy a Monte Box, and got laughed out the yard! The Jeep bolts on, all of it, but ya need the little adapter from Lee, got less than a $100, and my car drives like....well i dont know, it just drives awesome!

I just finished the upgrade on my 66. I found a box from an 88 Caprice F41 WZ box and ordered a seal kit from Lee Mfg. I also ordered the seats to press in the new box to use my original lines from Lee and used a rag joint from an 81 Chevy Truck. The box was pretty easy to take apart and reassemble but I had to make one tool to hold the bearings in. I waited to find the higher effort box and it was well worth the wait. I like the feedback the higher effort gives and it feels like rack and pinion steering, feels like it is locked in when the wheels are straight when driving. It is kind of hard to discribe but like marxjunk said "Awesome!". The total cost was only $75.00 including the parts from Lee.

Todd.

I would contact Lee Manufacturing in Sun Valley, CA. You can send them your original steering box and power steeing pump instead of going to a different box. They give you a choice of ratios. I had the box and pump in my '73 Grand Am rebuilt with a 12:1 ratio. They can even set the "road feel" you desire. Lock to lock on my set up is approximately 2.25 turns. Very fun to drive.

Checking the Napa site I see the cost has gone up a bit.

Item#: NSP276509

Price: $ 163.47
tax and shipping not included

Disclaimer: The stated price may vary from the in store price and may change at anytime.
Core Price: $ 83.33

Usually ships in 24 hours.


Attributes:
Attributes: P/S Gear Box
# of Mounting Holes: 4
# of Turns Lock to Lock: 2 1/2 - 3
Input Shaft Diameter: 13/16''
Line Thread Size: 11/16x18, 5/8x18
Output Shaft Diameter: 1.25''
Type of Hose Ports: Tube Seat

So is this jeep box from a grand cherokke or a different one . what year 93 to 99 ? found one here for 100 off a jeep grand cherokke .

I like the Cardone box I got, it bolted right in, appears to simply be a rebuilt version of the original with a tighter turning radius, I do not mind the steering effor, if you want more steering effort then you would have to go in a different direction.

93-99 works, the grand cherokee works and is faster than any of the old stuff, but the little cheroke, the little square one, is faster than that. I have seen cherokee boxes off late model wrecks with like 30,000 miles, sell for 35 bucks on ebay, i have also seen them bring a $100, just be patient and shop. Recently i saw a box, the lines and pump go for the first bid, 4.99 shipping was like 25, still thats a deal!!!

Now that it turns, i wanted it to stop. I adapted a set of 2002 trans am/z-28 12 inches brakes to the GS too, I got the info from the net, I couldnt use everything they said, i had to shop around, but i bought everything used. I have 4 wheel 12 in brakes, aluminum BPR calipers(no ididnt paint them red) and it was 100% bolt on. I made 2 brackets,you can buy the brackets now for less than 40 bucks, i used my plasma cutter to make them, spent 20 dollars at the machine shop. $168..............haha, bear sells a simular kit ( they use PBR) for 1400................hmmmm, turns fast, stops fast, big brakes in 15 inch ralleys with 1/4 inch spacers.............78 trans am front sway bar..... i bought a 3 inch rear after matket bar from the buick site for 75 bucks hehe, if my car had more guts, i could keep up with any 2000 z 28....... mustangs....ha i laff at you...................Im a cheap sob...............lol

thanks for the info .

Maybe you oughtta market your custom pieces along with instructions on what to buy used . . .

I have a pattern, and a list, anyone that wants it, can have it, just ask, i like to help. I will have to get it together so I can list it though. Although i like new shiney stuff, i usually do the "junkyard" stuff to piss the guys with billit off..............kinda onery like that.

Actually most of the info is out there google up "camaro big brake swap" and let the junkyarding begin!There is a pattern ya can down load with demensions and all that for free, or ya can buy the brackets, I see them on ebay for like 30 bucks. Your looking for the site where they used drum brake spindles and hubs. All bolt on! Its a camaro site, i will try to find it and post it.
It might be in the tech part of Team Camaro. Camaro and chevelle/GTO spindles are the same, the steering brkt is just turned around from one side to the other.

By the way, i've been answering to the name JYD for 12 years!

Hey marxjunk

Great post. I would like a copy of your list and info if you don't mind? It's exactly what these old rides need! My 70 Goat could use the help in the steering, and I want to see more with the braking.

John

OK, i will work on it, and get it to ya in a day or two.

Thanks all I got one off a 99 square one it fit right in but i had to get a different steering coupler but i figured on that Great info .

I am pretty well sold on the Jeep box, but maybe I don't understand enough about the Jeep pump. I would prefer to keep my old pump in place, but what is the difference between my old pump and the Cherokee pump? I see that the Jeep box needs more fluid. Will I loose the power steering momentarily on a hard turn of the wheel like I am low on fluid or won't it turn as easily with the Pontiac pump? I guess a better question to ask is what is better about having the Jeep pump. If I go with the Jeep pump, I would of course get the Jeep hoses, too. I understand that it is primarily a bolt on too. Does it look like it belongs on a Pontiac engine? Thanks

The Jeep pump is a high volume pump. it isnt higher pressure, since the box is quicker, ya need a pump that is able to keep the fluid flowing, or it will be jerky as you turn. What I did was pulled the pump out of the jeep housing, and slid it in the buick housing/resivoir. I had to "modify" it.
If i did it again, i would just get a pump assy off a late 70's T/A, it will keep up.
Try your pump first, if it is jerky, make the upgrade. If ya have a 70 up pump, it is supposed to be high volume anyway, just not AS high volume as the Jeep. I love mine, I am building a 70 Donahue Javelin, and have ALREADY ADAPTED THE 2000 Z-28 brakes to it, and am working on the steering box, as we speak.

I forgot to mention the rag joint. I bought one from auto zone for a 86 Monte Carlo, and it worked, i guess the Jeep one would work too, although I havent tried it.

I would take your pump to the Jeep, pull the Jeep pump out of the brackets and compare it. I think youd be surprised how close it looks, I just wanted mine to have the big roundy bubbled up stock looking pump housing/resivoir , I like to hide stuff, right there in front of ya :D

I have a list written down on paper. I will get it on a word document. If you PM your email i will send some pics of my stuff, a pic of the brkt i made and pics of it installed on the car. I have 4 wheel discs on mine. I used the rear discs off a 98-02 Z-28-T/A. I just put a set on my Javelin, and got them off a 99 V-6 Firebird. AND they are exactly the same, and I even got them cheaper because they were'nt on a Z, so they couldn't be worth much...Lol!
The rears are a direct bolt on to any GM 8.2 8.5 or 12 bolt, Ya got to get every thing, slide the Z axels out and get the aluminum back plates. Slide out your axels, remove everything including the backe plates and this stuff just bolts on. email me, i will send some info and pics,mark

OK, start here
The 3rd link has all the info, but i used the first link to make mine, it's so simple.I would buy the caliper bracket now, it takes half a day to make them, and the older i get, the more valuable my time is. I did it the first time to say "hey lookey what i done did" the second time wasnt nearly as fun, now on my third,it kinda sucks!
I Used the 12 inch rotors, but you could go to 13. I modified the 12 inch brkt, i shortened it up a little, moved the caliper closer to the hub, and I have 15 inch STOCK ralleys on my car. It's tight. I used a cheap alum. 1/4 spacer, and i felt better. I used the 12 inch stuff for the small wheel, and the 12 inch stuff is on v-6 cars, in other words, easy to get. I have never paid more than 100 bucks for it all. I don't take the used rotors, but i take the calipers, if ya got balls, you could use them i guess, but i use them as cores. The caliper core charge is 50 bucks. I will work on it to make it easier to understand, i am rambling..............


http://www.pozziracing.com/12_corvet...es_on_fgen.htm

http://www.pozziracing.com/quick_take_up_master_cyl.htm

http://www.camaros.net/techref/articles/ftecref012.html

PM sent marxjunk

John

I found this on the web, it says you can use your pump if you change a valve


Where the Saginaw model 700 gear is known for its longevity, the Saginaw power steering P-pump has been around an equally long time. You most likely want to use your original pump with its reservoir and pulley. The good news is that your power steering pump can be quite easily upgraded for pressure and flow to work with your new fast ratio gear. The fitting on the back of the pump regulates the amount of oil flow from the pump. The flow control plunger, (which is inside the pump directly behind the fitting) controls the pressure relief. These parts are very interchangeable between various Saginaw P-pumps.

I had Lee Mfg. build a High effort, fast ratio box for my '79 Coupe Deville ;). The coupe is long gone, but I still have the box. Any one know if I could bolt that box in my '79 TA or '65 Lemans ?

Thanks,

Kurt

After going back to my 97 truck after driving my 2004 GTO I had forgotten how much like grandma's Cadillac the steering felt.No road feel,3+ turns lock to lock.One full turn just making a 90 turn at a stop sign. They also have that electronic valve that is supposed to change effort with speed.

I wouldn't mind having Lee build one but the down time to pull mine and send it.

It's a bolt in!, for both. Ya just need to use the right hoses.

MARXJUNK...seen your post about the best steering box used for quicker steer is the box from a jeep cherokee,you said the type like an SUV. So i gather NOT the wrangler type...but the more spacier model...something like a SUV or wagon...and NOT the CRAND cherokee? Hope i have it figured right from what you outlined..for i like to try and find these components to do my 65 clone steering.Figure it'd be best like you said and use pump and all. Hate to sound dumb....but i just needed to try and clarify just xactly what i need to find.I understand (and saw one!) that there is a cherokee sport,maybe that's what i can look for! Appreciate your help and also the info from others ...this seems to be a good choice!

YES, Cherokee sport is the right one!!!

Ok I would like to make this change as well but I'm going from manual non power steering to quick ratio power steering. What other parts will I have to get off the donor jeep? I already have the correct Tempest brackets, pulleys and pump.

Thanks

Ya need the box, you will use your pitman arm, it must be a pitman arm for a power steer box, the sector shaft is bigger than manual steer.Plus the jeep pitman arm is a different length, and the stud for the drag ling is metric on the jeep. Take the bolts, and the rag joint. The Chereokee box has bubble/metric fittings. You can buy adapters for a few bucks to use your pontiac hoses to the jeep box from Lee Manufacturing, you will think you can make your pontiac hoses work, they will even screw on and get tight, but they will leak, the flares on the hoses are different.
Read a few posts back, ya swap a valve out of the jeep pump into your pontiac pump, for high pressure.
Other then swapping the pitman arm, and hose stuff it's a bolt on!

Marxjunk what would be a suitable donor car for the pitman arm?

Thanks

64-72 a-body or 67-69 f body or 68 to 74 Nova type car, the lenght is right. The longer the pitman arm, the faster the it will turn. Stick with the types i listed, and it will be a bolt on.
Even thought the nova/firebird type car is rear steer, and the a-body is front steer, the pitman swaps.

Marxjunk, thanks for the info. I will keep an eye out for those cars too when I'm jeep hunting in the salvage yard.

bump