Balancers
 

My 455 has a Summit balancer on it, are these any good? The thing is very rusty and all the chrome is coming off. I have a balancer off a 428 and a 400 will either of these work on my 455? Thanks

Both balancers you have will work on the 455...Robert

hey, not to steal your post, but what you said about stock balancer made me think. I just bought a pioner balancer at summit,,, it was about 90.00 some dollars,,,,but would a stock balancer do just as well in a 463 with 500ft. lbs of torque, or are after market ones that much better?

A heavier balancer is better. Isn't the Pioneer basically a stock replacement? Don't know, never seen one but I thought Pioneer stuff was pretty much stock equivalent(?) The more expensive aftermarket balancers are almost all larger and heavier than a stock balancer, which is better for damping vibrations in high output engines.

Just saying "Pioneer balancer" doesn't say what it is. Pioneer has four lines of balancers- "Standard", "Premium", "Street Performance", and "Performance Race (SFI)".

At $90, it's the stock replacement. The "Street performance" unit is in the $150 range, and the SFI units are over $200 (Pioneer numbers, that is).

The stock replacement is a quality unit. It should be fine for anything under 6,000 RPM.

Jim

Why are heavier balancers better. Romac has a good reputation and has one an Ultralight Dampner at 5.45 lbs. Isn't lighter better, in quality units?

Dave

How about it automotive engineers? Educate us on this question, please!

Come on folks......those in the know, please help us out. I'll be ready to buy a new balancer in the spring, and need help to make an informed decission.

Buy an ATI, they are used by all the top race teams, you can't go wrong with that kind of reputation.

I use a BHJ balancer. It is a very high quality piece.

it seems most above stock quality aftermarket balancers dont just slide right on...need machining...

As I posted earlier, why not use the Ultra-light Damper from Romac as it barely costs more? Isn't lighter better, in quality units?

Dave

Dave - no expert here, but the heavier (stock weight) balancers tend to idle better. If you have a pretty radical cam and a very light balancer then you'll have a rougher idle.

To my knowledge the lighter balancers don't really confer much of a performance advantage. I could be wrong though.

I just replaced my balancer with a pioneer - was called a high perf. street balancer (a little over a hundred bucks from Summit). It is not SFI. The stock replacement ones are under $100. Pioneer makes a SFI approved for 170 or so.

One thing, you want to get a decent unit - some of the TDC marks can really vary. Also, it is nice to get one that has multiple degree markings on it (the pioneer I have does - the stock replacement ones, whether pioneer or whatever, do not - just the single TDC mark. I have been pretty happy with the pioneer and it did slide on pretty easy.

Hope this helps.

the less reciprocating weight the faster it will rev. I believe that is why the make the light weight balancer and light flywheel.

Thanks, "trans am ed",

The RPM factor sliped my mind. I think in the spring I'll get the Romac Ultra Lite.

Thanks again,
Dave

http://fastengineparts.com/products_...6d999ad589b9ad
Price: $ 244.00


http://fastengineparts.com/products_...6d999ad589b9ad
Price: $ 239.99


Seems like an easy choice for $5 dollars difference.

Most people will tell you that light-weight flywheels are miserable on the street. A heavier flywheel give you more rotational inertia and is less likely to cause your motor to stall or require higher reving when starting from a stop. Light-weight flywheels are at there best with track cars that are at constant high rpms and need to accerate faster out of the turn etc. They are not meant to be driven in stop-and-go driving.

To a lesser degree I would think a light balancer vs. heavy would do the same. Jim Hand has a section in his book about balancers.

I'll look it up in the book.
Thanks, Dave

Anyone actually have one of these Romac Ultra Lite Dampers.

I guess I am one of those Automotive Engineers. LOL.

I guess "It Depends".

Every balancer should be tuned for the type of engine it is based of the different harmonics of the engine: 1st Order, 2nd Order, 3rd Order, etc. A 4 cylinder engine will have different needs vs a V-10 odd fire engine. You put the wrong balancer on a V-10 engine and you WILL break the balancer if not the nose off the crank.

Same deal goes for V-8 engines as far as the orders go but now you are more concerned about where you tune the orders. A Trans-Am engine likes a heavy balancer as it has a lot of up and down the rpm type cycles. A drag race engine might be able to run with almost a basic hub in a supercharger 14-71 application for 6 seconds or so.

For the TA guy the extra fraction of a second is not worth the durability over a 50 mile race. TA cars run several races without a teardown other than normal maint items and checks.

Factory balancers with the rubber material between the ring and the hub work fine on typical street applications. The factory engineers both the Z-28 guys and the Ram Air V guys went to massive heavy balancers for Road Race and high rpm applications. These people were not stupid folks.

Drag racers are a different crowd, trying to balance a steel beam on a razor blade type deal. What works for one guys deal might not live in anothers application.

If the car is typically not a pure drag race car go with the heavier aftermarket steel balancers and you will be happy. JMO

Tom V.

The wrong balancer design will also kill the first two mains over and over. Something to watch for in the field.

Romac says its ultralight is good for the street. Are you saying that installing it on a street car will affect (adversely) durability?

Been reading this and have one further question. If the rotating assembly is balanced does that have something to do with what balancer you use?

Tom

Of interest and related....

The new Feb issue of Popular Hot Rodding has a 15 page tech article written by David Vizard titled "The Spin Zone". Eight ways to get big rear-wheel power increases without having your engine make one hp more.
The big emphisis of the article discusses the subject of "flywheel moments of inertia" and the low/high moment moment of inertia flywheel controversy (or do I use a heavy flywheel or light flywheel, which is better?).
Other subjects are tackled... driveshaft, axles, wheels, etc ... and the other "flywheel" which is the crankshaft tortional vibration damper, or crank damper for short.
No matter what rules seem to apply to a given situation, there always seems to be an exception. The moment of inertia of an object up at the front end of the engine is just such an exception. Its the crank damper. Back in the '80's, even top drag racers were substituting heavy crank dampers for lightweight aluminum "hubs" in the belief they would go faster. The reality is these hubs, although having a vastly lower moment of inertia, actually cut power, even under high-acceleration conditions. The reason they did so is that they did not suppress crank tortional flexure. Such vibrations were transmitted directly to the cam via the timing chain and, as a result, the valve event timing was adversely effected and valve bounce was aggravated. All this led to reduction in power, and we are not talking about 0.5 to 1 hp here, but sometimes 12 to 14 hp on a 400-odd-hp engine. The bottom line here is, use a functional damper first and worry about its moment of inertia last. That way your motor will make more horsepower, longer.

So in simple english, do I understand this correctly,...
The "crank damper" is one location it's usually not better to go lighter?

and,...
"use a functional damper first"
means use a damper that has some weight(inertia) to be able to
absorb vibrations?

Better to run aluminum rods and lighter pistons if trying to lighten internals?


The help from those far more experienced here is very much appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time.

Thanks,
Dave.

Personally over the years I've used aftermarket dambers that were meant to be used on a Pontiac and not something that is adapted. For example I've used two units from BHJ with a part number for Pontiac that fit fine. Another was a custom unit from ATI that also went on with little modification. And for me personally weight was not a factor in my decision as I just presumed that the companies made them compatable for the end use. And, again for me personaly, price is generally not the motivating factor in my choice. But if one is building on a budjet, then a damper from a company like Proffesional Products could well be what you are looking for. Presuming they sell the appropriate unit.
I'd ask or look at the catalogs from vendors that deal with Pontiac specific and see what the sell. Buy what fits and whats within your budjet.

My engines are internally balanced and both the flexplate and damper are neutral balanced and not factored in. Reducing weight on the crankshaft would be like reducing weight on a flywheel. When the piston and rod assembly becomes lighter, the amount of counterbalance mass needed on the crank becomes less and usually by a bigger amount.

How do BHJ and Romac compare to each other? Anyone have experience with both?

and

Who sells BHJ Balancers?

Thanks,
Dave

Dave, I have no experiance with Romac. Some like BHJ and some don't, I had no issues on my specific builds. But that said, John at the shop has had issues with two of them in two different build ups not involving Pontiac. I had a old one laying around and I recently sent it to BHJ for recertification and any necessary rework at a cost of only $45 and now its like new so I'm going to use it, otherwise I'd buy another unit from ATI.
As far as where we got the BHJ dampers I have no idea as they were ordered thru mu engine builder at the time.