Front motor plate
 

Who makes a front motor plate for 65 gto?does it go between block and timing cover? If so I would assume you would have to mill the cover. Thanks Don

Don,
Allpontiacs has a front plate. It covers the entire front.

We've used a two-piece type in the past. The "plates" go from the frame up to the front side of the heads, and does not involve the timing cover. These are usually fabricated by a local fab shop. Not expensive or complex.

Jim

Don,

BOP Engineering and AllPontiac both sell the motor plates. BOP sells the conversion kit for the oil pans, so that you can modify it. IMO, if you're going to put a motor plate in it, you might as well put a belt drive on it too. ;)

-Brian

I really do not recomend a front plate that bolts to the heads -- for a lot of reasons-- I have done a couple different styles -- the best is 1/8th in. Titainum and then mill the cover .125 and fit it between the cover and block -- have done the same with 1/4 aluminum -- just milled the area between the cover and the motor done to about .150 and left the remainder at 1/4".

The AllPontiac.com plate mounts in front of the timing cover, so there's no milling required.

The BOP one also mounts to the timing cover area.

itnop

I have a 65 LeMans and recently installed the All Pontiac motor plate. It bolts to the front of the timing cover with four bolts. It was easy to install all I had to do was weld a tab to the frame on both sides, drill holes and install bolts. It's made out of 1/4 inch steel and has lightening holes. I am happy with the set up. I did have to use a different lower radiatoer hose.

Tim C

KRE
 

Try KRE that's where I got mine at.

Don,

Did you take a look at the front of my motor? I milled 1/4'' off the back of a Wiend timing cover and fabbed a 1/4 aluminum motor plate that goes under the cover. Then I fabbed adapters to mount a (sorry about this) SBC Moroso electric water pump. Works great! And you can pull the heads without messing with the motor plate. I have a couple of Moon covers if you'd like to do something similar. You're always welcome to come by and talk Pontiacs.

Rob...

Rob you have mail

Front motor plate
 

I made my own out of 3/16 plate. It goes between the block and the timing cover. I did not mill/cut anything. I also welded a piece to the plate that goes between the cover and the oil pan. This was done for many reasons, but mainly for strength. It works great and am building another one for my High Port 505.

Heres another ? if you run a front plate, should/do you need to run a midplate?

I use a mid plate and would recommend it. It prevents undue stress on the trans.

I plan on using a midplate .Thanks for the replies.

Do any of you have pics of the plate that bolts to the front of the timing cover on your engines?

Here is a picture of a front motor plate installed by BVR421 from AllPontiac.com: We have many differant designs lengths. We have a A body design that mounts around the stearing box. Notice the Alt. mounted under the plate. Great job BVR421

Here is the AllPontiac one


http://www.pontiacgroup.com/warpedtepeepics/23t/mp.jpg

Had to swap back to Pontiac power when I bought the TA roller and the AP plate made it a piece of cake! A real problem solver. We just welded a tab to each side of the frame and bolted it up.
The alternator just wouldnt fit right mounted in the usual places so I hung it below where it seems to be doing ok.
BTW, I had to swap out the cam and lifters a couple months after that pic was taken and the AP plate was no real extra hassle at all at least in my car as the midplate held the motor up and on reinstall the bolts to the frame went back in with a slight lift (1/32") from a big screwdriver. With a behind the front cover type plate, it wouldnt have to be removed at all to get to the cam but still it was no real concern on my setup.

Robert, WARPed,

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. Did you use anything special for bolts being the mount is away from the block so far or is it really secure against the timing cover?

It very closely fits the front of the timing cover. I used slightly longer (1/4") bolts from the hardware store. Dont worry about the bolt deal. It aint goin nowhere.

Now I'd like to see a pic of the one Bob C mentioned for the stock frame GTO
I may use one on my new 64

A stock frame twist rotates so much under load I think a flexible trans mount would be necessary with a front plate, more so than with stock rubber mounts.

My 64 recently split the block right up the middle using solid stock location mounts. I dont know what caused it yet we havent pulled the 462, it could be the eagle crank let go first.

I dont know if I want to solidly tie the new motor in place or let it move around.

In my case there will be a mid plate and will use standard grade 8 bolts for the front plate. There will not be a trans mount bolted in place with the use of the mid plate but rather just resting on the cross member.

I have little experience with this deal but won't it be necessary to have trans bolted to crossmenber to control fore-aft movement? The front and mid plates alone should not be sufficent to hold position. I would feel better If not the trans mount, at least use limiter rods from engine or plate parallel to the frame. Thats close to a 1000lbs that needs to be held in place.

We sandwiched behind the cover and bolted into the heads.
Rex

After a lengthy conversation with my chassis builder the trans mount (polly) will be bolted into place. The limiters will not work when a stock PG case is used (what I have) they are just too weak for such a strain.

I made these out of the leftovers from the mid plate I'm using,1/4" T6 ali.

Taff that looks like a very effective use of "scrap" LOL no such thing as "scrap metal" right?

looks like FBN is a little further along in construction and looking great!

Thanks BVR we finished it About a year ago. It was completly built in our own shop with the exception of the paint work. We even did the vinyl on it. It still is heavy as we kept the stock doors with crank up glass, and some other things that can be changed. It weighs in at 2700 and with out alot of motor it ran 9.97 at attco. With the new motor we hope to hit a low 9. Im pretty proud of this car

Rex

FBN- Nice work! Where do you run it?

Thanks Jack,
We race locally at lancaster dragway in buffalo NY and new york international near rochester ny. We try to hit two big money bracket races a month during the season.
Rex

Rightfully so! I love the factory mirror on the door. The bracket racers friend!

One more thing on front motor plates, TwoOldGoats ordered the complete BOP package and I looked it over in his shop last night. That is a thing of beauty, front plate with belt cam drive. The price of the package always seemed high to me but after seeing the real parts spread out on the bench, I can see the value!

BVR, yeah I like to make use of what's hanging around my workshop, the ladder bars on my last car were made from the legs of a bar room table (1" box section steel) ! Didn't seem to hurt the car it ran consistent 10.50s!
The new tube car is all homebuilt and is a rolling chassis now,just the bodywork to sort out in time for the new season in March.

S&W Race Cars has one that mounts between the water pump and timing cover for $99.00. I am using one on my 65 LeMans tube car, all you have to do is remember to space those 2 little sleeves that the separator plate presses against out 1/4" also. I bought this one just before B.O.P. came out with theirs that is pictured in a previous post that uses the 4 lower bolts, that one seems more conveniant as it is lower (out of the way) and does not require spacing or machining timing covers and other components... D. Miles

Mine is mounted between the block and timing cover. I need this setup as my cranktrigger and pump won't let me use another style. Everything seems to mount OK and nothing rubs. Do I have to machine the cover? The only problem I see is the gasket for the oil pan as my waterpump is run without the regular plates and sleeves. Is there something I'm not seeing? The picture is just the initial mockup.

Thats how ours is also. We machined a little over 1/8 off the cover then made our own front gasket out of a thicker cork material. The one problem is that by moving the cover out a whole 1/4, it messes up the location of your front pan bolts pretty bad. Also you will need a spacer for the vent port on the water pump to intake manifold. I would machine the cover.
Rex

I'm surprised that the cover and front main seal can move a full 1/4" ahead on the balancer hub without a problem. Or did you put a spacer between the timing gear and the balancer?
Edit: I see you didn't say that your plate is 1/4" thick- I was just thinking it was, from the photo.

My plate is 3/16 and the seal looks alright on the ATI balancer and no spacer was used. I think you're right I'm going to machine the cover about .150". Never thought about the bolt holes! Sometimes it's good to ask a stupid question. LOL. ... Thanks, Eric.

I have used a plate between the timing cover and the block for a boosted application. To make the balancer match correctly I took an old timing gear and had the teeth machined off and the gear sliced into 1/4" thick pieces with a wire edm. Now I had enough parts to do about 4 front plate set-ups.

The other alternative was to have 1/4" thick hardened rings made with the keyway broached into the spacers. I would have the oieces rockwell C hardened to the same spec as a lower timing gear.

For many the Plate between the waterpump or the lower 4 bolt deal seems easier.

Tom V.

how about this, i've seen BOP with the belt drive set up and thought... instead of spending $900 which is fine if you want to do that, giving you an outstanding piece also a stout motor plate, I used a 1/4" plate to mount up against the already machined surface ( yes it covers the engine code :( ) using 6 grade 8 studs running through a fabricated timming chain cover. ( i'm running a gear drive and had to machine back on the idler gear shafts to 1.44'' to fit) and now you are all thinking what about the oil pan? well I just cut that 45 degere front off flush and made my own flange with 9, 1/4" bolts. what about a water pump? well just use a small block chevy, no it wont bolt on but the water holes line up, just install offset studs and call it a day. a front seal has a separate plate which can be adjusted to ensure proper sealing. total hours on this was about 15-18 hours and being hand fabricated it does not look like a hand job. total cost was about 180 bucks and i'll really fake people when they think its a small block, which they already do (when they see the valve covers) i dont plan on selling one or making an other i'll try to get pictures on here or you can just e mail me. I needed a motor plate and so i made one :@

that sounds like clever fabrication! Please post some pics!

Id like to see it also.

Here's what I run
 

This set up is over 15 years old. I used a 1/4 inch aluminum plate and milled 1/4 inch off the back of a Wiend FI front cover. Made my own adapters and mounted a SBC water pump. The pump and balancer in this pic was just to mock it up. I ended up with a Moroso electric pump and an ATI balancer.

Motor Plate
 

KRE sell a front Motor Plate with a Billet Aluminum timing chain cover that takes a SB Chevy water pump. Very nive piece!

More pics......

to misterp266- thats cool! thanks for the pics. what mostly lead me to do that (other than a leaky timming cover) was because people would think that i was running a sbc. which everybody does these days, because the valve covers are the first thing you see when you walk up to a motor in a car. so this will really throw them off. and now they will scratch there head and and try to figure out was series of edelbrock heads i'm running? i'll tell them anything they want to hear because i'm some 22 year old and when they wise up i'll throw it in their face.

15 years old?

I did not think the Gutsram was made 15 years ago? Or is that the old Larry W. Tunnel ram?

Wow!

Tom V.

ps Why does everyone think the Chebby pump is better than the Pontiac pump???

Tom V- I never heard any Poncho guy say that the SBC pump is better; it's just that it lends itself to this sort of layout, like Rob (misterp266) showed. The Pontiac pump is a big, bulky thing. And the old 4-bolt pumps weren't a complete pump- just a rotor with no housing.

Tom V.

It's an old Larry Wenzler with a home made top. Thanks for the Wow Tom, from you that means a lot. The SBC pump is easier and cleaner, not better. Plus, at the time I built this car, there were no electric Pontiac pump setups. That motor was actually built in the early eighties with that intake and street driven back and forth to the track before ending up in my Tempest. You might also have noticed the billet upper radiator hose fitting that I put the radiator cap on because it is the high point of the cooling system. No one around here ran Pontiacs when I built this car and there wasn't the aftermarket parts that are available now either.

Rob...

Has anyone ever tried to mill the entire 1/4" off the mounting flange of the timing cover?

misterp266,

How does either of those water pumps seal up with just two bolts (one on either side) holding them in place? Correct me if I'm wrong, but after milling 1/4" off that Moon style timing cover, it looks like you eliminated the cover and water pump sharing those lower pump bolts, and now just have the timing cover held in place with those bolts (which can be seen in your one shot from the left side). If this is so, I was just wondering what kind of pump sealing issues you've had (if any).