Serpentine ???
 

Must a tensioner be used when running a serpentine belt?

I want to do a conversion. Water pump, alternator, and crank.

Photos anyone?
Help?
Suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave

You need some way to put tension on the belt. Some versions use a spring-loaded idler pulley; you put the belt on all the pulleys while holding the idler back against the spring, release it and the idler keeps the belt in tension.

Other versions use a idler that slides in its mount for adjusting, but then you tighten it down into a fixed position. Others may use one of the accessories in a sliding mount as the tensioning device, then tighteneing it down.

My cars have the spring variety and all the accessories are in fixed mounts.

George

I assume your are saying you have one on your Pontiac? From which vehicle did you take it from and did you have to do anything to make it fit your Pontiac?

Thanks,
Dave

Anymore people here do a serpentine swap yet and can pass along some info?

Thanks,
Dave.

Anyone?

Serpentine
 

I have a March serpentine system. Tension is obtained by lengthening or shortening the AC or alternator adjusting rod. There is no tensioner.

I have a used Rodney Red system. Alt and PS. $200

Need serpentine?
 

A friend of mine is close to releasing his serpentine system for Pontiacs. He is a retired engineer, and he has already done these for Ford and Chebby.

I have the laser-cut prototypes in my truck. He should be doing the final test fit in a week or so. It's a nice set-up; all the parts stayed in more or less their original positions, just tucked in nice an close. It will minimize re-wiring and re-plumbing.

Any interest?

Bob Trimpe

Depends on the price. A REALISTIC price, or look at my billet @#$@#$ price.
I'd love a properly setup serpentine system.

69convt, matrix, fyrebird68......

If possible, could you post photo's?

Thanks in advance,
Dave.

Serpentine
 

I will try to post a picture, never have before so it may not come out. Can actually see better pictures on the March performance web site.

I have a ROdnry Red setup on my motor. Alt, h2o, ps. Looks nice. Good fit. Uses factory style tensioner. Haven't started motor yet so not sure how it will run. But should work just fine.

The serpentine system is progressing nicely. I hope to have pictures of the mounted prototype by next week.

This is laser-cut stainless or painted steel .25" plate.

What do you guys consider a reasonable price? Has hasn't set one yet.

Bob

Bob, If you scan through a Summit or Jegs catalog, they seem to be around $800-$1,200 per kit, depending on the level of accesories of course.

A well engineered, complete kit starting around $600 would go over well here I think.

What sort of finishes is your buddy thinking of? Chromed (=$), painted, black oxided (steel), anodized (Al)?

Perhaps others can chime in with their $.02

jamie

March part # 13100 is $395.95 at Summit....... so a new product comming to market needs to beat this price!

Dave

I think he's looking at stainless or painted for this first pass.

I'll pass along the price points.

As sson as he rolls out the prototype, I will point him to this forum, and he can begin fielding questions from interested people. Stay tuned.

I was thinking Rodney Red or better.
There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to charge huge amounts of money for "Bling." Who cares? Chrome a steel piece if you need shiney.
I would make the parts out of steel and slap some cheap black paint on them to protect them from rusting. The end user can coat them however he/she pleases. Function over form, you might say.
It's nice when Pontiac guys can build our own stuff and not have to get screwed by the big names just because it's not for a Chevy.

Thanks for the correction Dave, I was typing off the cuff.

Here's the breakdown on the march kits from summit.
$395 - march system (crank, water pump & alternator)
$599 - march system (crank, water pump, alt, & press fit ps pump)
$645 - march system (crank, water pump, alt, & keyway ps pump)
$999 - march system (crank, water pump, alt, keyway ps pump, & ac)

I agree with JC, function over bling.
But I do like the turnbuckle type adjustment rods for belt tension over the other options.

I really don't think there's a very big market for another overpriced conglomeration of idlers and pulleys. I, myself, would never pay the prices March is asking for there serpentine systems. For the prices they are asking, I'll buy parts and pieces to piece together a serpentine system that doesn't need all of the extra idlers and goo-gaw pulleys. I'm hoping this thread is leading us to a serpentine belt system for our Pontiacs that is functional, attractive and not aimed at "Raping the Racers! (just my .02 worth)

Fyrebird68-
Any news?
Thanks!

Parts are done. He is working on pulley combinations. He asked me to be low-ke about discussing it becasue he plans to get a patent.

I hope to get the prototype installed on my GTO in a couple of weeks.

Can I ask a potentially dumb question? I realize that the serp system is a lot easier to install/replace, but on a street (or street/occasional track) car, is there a real functional advantage to a serp system over conventional stuff?

also, fyrebird68, please share the name and number with us when your friend feels comfortable releasing these parts. I know someone without a computer who is in the market and likes to patronize the independent businessman, even if he is slightly higher priced than the bought-en-masse catalogs.

thanks.

......

Just got an ameail from him today. He didn't like the fit of the first prototype; he added a hole and moved one. We'll cut a new one hopefully this week and try again.

I would think the main advantages are the possibility of slipping and squealing and throwing of belts due to differences in the shape, size and material on the belts. I'm going to try a setup on my car without the adjusting rod and see how it goes.

vidguy,

which car is gettng the serp system?

Prolly the Daily Driver Formula!

Any news?

Fyrebird68,

Any updates? I'm looking to swap out my stock pulleys for something aluminum in a month or so, preferably with a serpentine setup.

You also might want to consider making a post in the "street" section for more exposure. I know a lot of us would like a serpentine setup, but either are unwilling to drop $900 for the March system or don't care for the PS and alternator relocation of the Rodney Red system.

A serpentine system has less parasitic drag than a V- belt system. How much less depends on how many pulleys.

Dan has gone quiet on this. I'm sure he hasn't stopped working, but I imagine he's hit a snag, or he's preoccupied with family matters. (He's retired, so he's easily distracted! :) )

He's asked me to keep details quiet until the design is finalized and he's got enough documentation for patent protection. I can say with confidence that:

• It will cost a lot less than $900
• It will not relocate power steering or alternator

Paul at Ram Air Restorations markets a VERY NICE aluminum pulley set-up with deep grooves and choice of pulley diameter. I have a set and they are perfect!!

http://www.ramairrestoration.com/cat...fb5e4dd93a7651

Forgive me for my ignorance, but if someone has a fair amount of time, how hard is it really to modify a system off another car?

Wouldn't/couldn't one just take some measurements to get something in the ballpark, and fab up some brackets, or redrill existing ones (preferred) that would bolt to our cylinder heads?

I like the idea of the serpentine system for a number of reasons, but I really like the idler pulley providing the proper amount of tension.

I guess it comes down to who has the time to do the legwork, and the desire.

I look forward to seeing how this progresses...I'm just sorry I don't have the time myself.

Must be harder than you think, or more people would be doing it. Not everyone is an experimenter; they want to buy it, bolt it and go, knowing that everything will fit as promised. Looks and dependability are important, too; many wouldn't want the cobbled-together look and the in-the-ballpark performance.

I for one am content to wait for a well-thought-out product at a good price. Somebody else had the headaches of design changes, multiple prototypes, compromises, etc.

Dan will get it done. It's not his first project - he's got them for Ford and Chevy. One more and he'll roll out the product line!:clap2:

Thanks Bob, and I totally agree with you.

I didn't have any money when I started playing with cars, so I have learned or conditioned myself to not re-engineer everything, but rather take the tried and tested, and well engineered products that the OEM's have designed and meld them into my car/projects.

I am currently working on using a late model fuel tank to supply my future efi project, thereby alleviating expensive custom tanks that cost $1K, and no problems with baffling and such.

But, alas, my time is also limited, and I am more able to spend an hour or two a night researching more than actually wrenching or gathering parts at the yards.

Thank you again for keeping us posted. I too agree I can do without the bling, and look forward to competitive pricing.

Thanks for the update. I hope all goes well with it.....

Any updates?

Any updates this week?

????

Haven't heard from him in several weeks. I think I'll check on him.

TTT .

Parts are back from the laser! I got them to Dan. I think he wants to tinker a little more in the garage (he's got two-three Pontiac blocks), and then we'll be trying it out on my goat.

Any news?

I know I've been following this one, and am chompin' as well!

Prototype is done. I have it in my shop, and the idea is to see if I can install in on the 455 I have sitting on the stand. Afterwards, he makes a parts list of pulleys, bolts and belt needed. Then I install it on the 400 I have in the GTO.

He's been trying to adapt it to both types of water pump bolt patterns and snout lengths. He has two prototypes - one puts the alternator on the other side of the block and moves the PS pump higher, the other one retains nearly original locations for these items.

Good to hear. If it were me, I'd concentrate on the 69 and up pump, as I'm guessing that the majority of your customers are going to be 2nd gen Bird folks, followed by LeMans/Tempest folks who aren't afraid to modify their cars. There are always ol school Pontiacers who don't care (me) about the (perceived loss of)value, they just want that trick street car that gets DRIVEN.
Tell your friend we very grateful for his efforts!

I installed it on the 455 on the stand last night. Very simple, no problems. We have one small spacing issue to work through, and we need to identify parts sources for some pulleys.

Approach is to offer two tiers of kits:

1. Everything you need for a bolt-on out-of-the-box installation.
2. The basics, and you supply your own pulleys and belt. This appeals to the junkyarders who like to save money by "sourcing" their own parts.

It looks really nice (stainless). Probably putting it on the test car (my 68 GTO with '73 400 motor) next week. Hope to put a few miles on the kit before the car goes down for the winter.

He's started on the Mopar kit.

Glad to hear, Bob. Thanks for the update.

Any chance you can post some pics, or is it too sensitive of an issue for now?

Thanks.

He made me promise no pics until he gets the patent application filed. He's close, though.

I have the March serpentine system without air. The idler pulley mount is slotted and can be adjusted to enhance tension as well as the alternator. The March system is expensive and most probably not worth it but there are limited alternatives.