SBC into Tempest
 

Hey guys, I got a '68 Tempest that im rebuilding for a school project. I plan on doing my bodywork for the actual school project and install my new engine and tranny this summer. What i have now is a Pontiac 350 w/ a pwerglide. Ive aquired a chevy 400 sb and a TH2004r tranny. Can someone show me an example of the motor mounts ill need for this? Are they just Chevelle mounts? Also, what does it take to make the tranny fit? I have heard that it will drop rite in but I will have to shorten the driveshaft. Hows that sound to you guys?

Thanks alot for any help,
Matt

hey sledneck, most of the guys around this forum frown on chevys in their pontiacs. why not be different, see how much power you can get out of that 350. the 2004r should have a dual bolt pattern and will bolt right up to the pontiac engine. i think you will be pleasantly surprised at the power you can get out of that 350. there is no big and small block pontiac so everything you can put on a 455 you can also put on a 350.

Thanks puddles, i kind of expeced that. I figured since it was just a tempest it wouldnt hurt anything. I got the sbc motor for next to nothting and I wanted to use that in the car while i built the 350. :)

For mount all you will need is the frame and motor mounts from any 68-72 Chevelle as the Lemans and Chevelle share the same chassis. As for the transmission mount all you may have to do is relocate the crossmember, probably move it back some. BUT if you are going to use that 200R4 make SURE your TV cable is hooked up and properly adjusted which includes making sure the geometry is correct. If you don't the trany will never last.

HTH

And FWIW, that's a Super Turbine 300, not a 'glide, that came behind your 350 Pontiac.

Redoing all the mounts, exhaust and electrical for the Chevy will have to again be undone to reinstall the Pontiac. Save all the parts.

Under no conditions, should you be doing this based on the Chevy-oriented propeganda that a Pontiac won't run (absloutely untrue, and there are dozens of guys lining up right now, to remove the doors from any Chevy-powered Poncho with high velocity air flow...). Seems like a lot of work for a temporary home...

Jim

Please Please Please... do not put a Chevy in there....

Sell the chevy to a chevy guy and use the money to score yourself a running 400 pontiac! 400's are plentiful and easy enough to find... just keep your eyes open.. use your poncho 350 heads to bump up the compression!

Just use Chevelle frame stands and your good to go.

Andrew

If I had the time and money i would absolutly use a pontiac motor. This will be my first project car and im just testing the waters. BTW, whats the difference between a powerglide and the super turbine 300 two speeds?

sorry, can't stand to see a chevy go in....

gutless sbc in a Pontiac? geesz Id rather walk
Dude, dont screw up a nice car, stick with the 350 Pontiac motor at least until all the other work is done and then decide on power. The Pontiac 350 is not the hottest deal around but in stock form still has more power than a stock sbc.
ST300 and Powerglide are the same GM design but the st300 is Pontiac only and as it was designed for way more torque and weight than a chevy it has super heavy duty parts including input and output shafts etc. The bellhousing bolt pattern is way different on a Pontiac so it wont bolt up to a chev.

If you want a small block sell the Tempest and buy a Chevelle.

What do you mean the money? Machine work costs exactly the same amount for Pontiacs as it does for chevy. You won't have to change motor mounts so you just saved some money. Sell the 400 chev and you now have the money to pay for your machine work. Gasket set, rings, rod and main bearings would be maybe $50 more than a set for a 400 small block. You are not saving by building a 400sbc. You could save more by building a 350 sbc, but you car would be so much cooler if it have tha Pontiac motor in it. The days of Chevy's being a big advantage over Pontiac motors are over. The parts are out there and it is much better to keep your car all Pontiac. (except for that OD tranny) :)

**** chevy

What Brandi said. :bounce:

I'd rather have a sister in a whorehouse than a brother with a SBC in a 68 Tempest.

Too bad you're not in NM, if you were local, I might trade you for a 69 chevelle I have.
Then if you want a chevy with a SBC you can have one.
And I will keep the Tempest pontiac powered, as it should be. Also nobody will want to slap you for putting an SBC in a classic poncho.


As a side note, weren't most 200r4 trannies dual bolt pattern, and will fit chev or BOP?

If your tempest came with a pontiac V8, the starter and the fuel pump will be on the wrong side for a sbc, you will need to switch fuel line and battery tray, or run a real long cable.

Also, if the sbc is going to be just temporary, a TH350 is a bolt-in replacement for the ST300, you wouldn't have to shorten the driveshaft or move the crossmember.
I had a 350 chevy in my LeMans for seven years. Just don't let anybody look under the hood.

BOO HOO, you cant do that to YOUR car
 

Dont listen to them Matt
Have fun nomatter of what the "PURIST" complain about.
Just remember any IDIOT can restore a car and keep it stock.
It takes a real man to cut one apart and improve on where it was lacking!!

Of course, any imaginless, "me too" geek can put a Chevy motor in a Pontiac, but this is a Pontiac forum, so don't expect us to think that is cool. What's the matter, couldn't deal with the crappy styling of the Camaro, so ya had to buck up a T/A? Besides, who said we were all "PURISTS"? There are many owners here with modified cars that are Pontiac powered and could eat your Pontolet (or is that Port-O-Let?) for breakfast.

Matt, I appreciate your frankness, and am not bashing you. You do what your current budget will allow, just don't get the attitude TA454 has about it.

Thats a good one my attitude.
where do you think my attitude is derived from All the high and mighty "purists" that want to impart their vision on others. and anything to the contrary is simply substandard.
instead of balancing up there on your high horse with the rest of the high and mighty narrow minded "purists"
Just be glad that it is one more car that somebody took the time to keep alive instead of just tossing it in the crusher.

As far as the performance of my car trust me there is several cars on here that i have seen in my rearview mirror. And quite a few that wish they could run with me.
Before you make a blanket statement as to the performance of any individuals car you better research as to what and IF their car can do/has done at the track.

as i can see by your profile you obvously would not know a 10 second car if it was right in front of you.

Have fun with your car And let others have fun with theirs.
younger guys like matt come to boards like these to get the guidance and knowhow to work on these older cars. No wonder the younger rodders are going to the fart can/big stupid wing import side. when you got a bunch of old plicks nit picking everything that they want to do.Just because it is not the way it was done in the good old days.The good old days are over ther is more than your way of doing things.
Instead of bashing the guy for working within his means. try doing what the forum is for and answer the question that was asked.

1. You cast the first stone. You didn't offer any useful advice, only snide comments directed towards anyone who, on a PONTIAC forum, didn't agree with putting a non-Pontiac motor in a Pontiac.
2. If you'd actually read the post, I was bashing you, not Matt, his attitude wasn't smarta$$ like yours is.
3. Your defintion of 'purist' and mine are evidently quite different.
4. Again, this is a PONTIAC forum, which tends to have people who are into PONTIACS like myself, so if you don't like it, go to one of the 1000s of Chevy forums.
5. As for my profile, at least I provide some honest information about myself, instead of hiding behind the typical "non-information" your profile has.
If we're going to base knowledge on what info is in a person's profile, I'd say you don't know squat about anything. Truth is, I'd put my knowledge and experience up against yours anyday.
6. Last, any....what was your word?.....oh yes, IDIOT, can butcher a car, a "real man" works with, and improves on, what is already there. Doing what you did to the car is worse than sending it to the crusher to us true Pontiac fans.

My profile was filled out with my car info i did not realize that when the redid the forums that the info was erased. sorry my bad.
my car runs 10.8 in non tubbed street trim (et streets, Mufflers) I kinda think that is quite a bit of squat to know.

I still fail to see how an engine that is BOLTED in destroys any thing.
I guess the air must be thin upon that high horse.
As far as you preaching that this is a pontiac forum.
OK i will give you that.
BUT what exactly did you expect to find in a section titled "NON PONTIAC MOTORS IN PONTIACS" does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this section would have pontiac enthusiast like ME in here.
Like i said before answer the question asked .
If you would read ALL the posts atleast 50% contain absolutely NO useful information on the conversion.
except fot chipster,Mr pbody, jeff walker and to an extent puddles (who was polite in his opinion which i can respect when given that way) The rest of the replys are nothing but soap box, chest thumping bable.
IT does get awfully old in a NON PONTIAC MOTORS section.
All i got to say is Whatever,
have a nice day

Since you insulted me based on what you read in my profile, I just returned the favor by using yours as a guide.

Of course, you haven't provided one useful comment yourself, so that makes you no different.

I'll give you the fact that is it the "Non-Pontiac motors in Pontiacs" section, but you didn't answer the question either, you just stirred the pot with your comments. I usually only reply if I can provide some useful input, but the way you worded your reply ticked me off. I saw at least 50% of the posts were anti-SBC comments as well, but again, this is where Pontiac lovers hangout. As we both know, if you ask, or even if you don't, you will get various opinions including yours and mine. In closing, I will say, from looking at your car on your website, it is a nice looking T/A and while I disagree on the route you could have taken with the car, it is your car and your are free to do anything you want to with it. Perhaps we can just agree to disagree. Dave

if you're gonna put a chevy in a pontiac, at least put a big block... small blocks are boring and a crappy replacement for real pontiac power... unless you're installing an LS1 or something like that

Put the 400 Chevy in. Paint it Pontiac green. When they ask, say it's a 400. 90 percent of people won't know the difference.
If Chevy in a Pontiac is so wrong, why did GM do it?

You're right about the 90%, but the 10% of us who do know what we are looking at wouldn't like it, in that case, at least leave it Orange.
It's Blue, either solid or metallic, not green.
GM did it for cost cutting reasons.

Keep your chin up Matt
 

Matt, as a technology teacher and Pontiac enthusiast I encourage you whole heartedly for picking a great project. It'll be unique and really cool when you get it done. IMO only I'd keep the 350 and sell the chevy for many of the afore mentioned reasons. If you're in a tech school or Trades program - which I'm assuming you are, before you get into too much check with the dept head who hands auto tech and see if their schedule would allow them ( or hopefully you) to do the 350 while the body work is in progress. I'm sure you'd rather wrench on your engine yourself so talk to him and see if thats a possibility.

Good luck and check in often as we love to see pictures of restorations in progress and you're at a get place to learn now what will serve you well throughout your life.

Take car !!

CHEVY IN A PONTIAC, THE ONLY WAY TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt,

1. It's your car and you can do what you like with it.

2. This IS a Non-Pontiac Motors in Pontiac subforum, so yours is a fair question, I hope you have found suitable answers, despite the pi$$ing match going on in this thread.

3. Like others here, I personally think having a Chevy motor in your Tempest would be lame and suck.

4. Our opinions don't matter, it's your car and you can do what you like with it.

Enjoy your Tempest!

At least half of that is right!

I saw the difference between a bone stock 400 in a 68 bird and a slightly modified Chevy street 400, in the same car. When the guy bought the car, with the Pontiac engine, he drove it like a chebby and evetually kicked the rods at the track, but it ran a mid 12. Then he put in his "HOT" Chevy engine in it and it ran low 14s. He only brought the car to the track twice with the Chevy in it and he never came back.

I think that is why alot of guys think Pontiac motors are not reliable, because they try to drive them like a chevy motor. They are designed to make power at low revs, and they do make alot more power at low revs. You just have to get it through your head to use it and set the car up to use it. There is a guy that comes to our cruise ins with a 66 GTO that is tubbed and has a 454 in it. It almost dies when he launches it because he has som much traction, he drives it alot on the street and it is a really nice car. Only problem is, my 400, 67 GTO would eat it in the 1/8 or in the 1/4, and mine was just as streetable and running on 255/60 BFGs. Sorry GM. Shoulda stuck with the blue metallic.

The cost of machine work is the same regardless of engine brand. On your 350 Pontiac, it shares the same rings with a 283 sbc, so there is no cost difference there. Email me and I'll beat anybodies price on the bearings, as they cost me the same as chev bearings. Now the only difference is pistons as valvetrain parts cost the same from the cam companies, it's just a pain getting it for the same money from shops and warehouses. Bucks down? An intake that is used but not full of stripped holes is just as good performance wise as a new one of the same make, ( performer rpm used vs. performer rpm new). Carb is same cost. Ignition is nearly same cost, if you THINK you must buy an aftermarket distributor. Wires and plugs are same cost, as is ignition boxes. And how much was the parts to convert it to a chev engine? There isn't much difference in total cost and we can make a Pontiac engine spank torqueless chevies all day long and last longer doing it. The Pontiac 350 takes a little different approach, but it can do it.

WD, I have seen that happen too many times, but until it happens to the one thinking he has to go the chevy engine, they won't listen. Maybe that is why I enjoy my Vega and S10 with the Pontiac engines so much. Hey TA454, can you keep up? Not running as slow as 10's you won't. ( Just afriendly little couldn't resist stirring the pot right back at ya.) :fencing: :Peace: I am curious TA454, if a guy had a Pontiac engine avalible for you that would allow your TA to run into the nines in the otherwise same trim you run 10.8's with the 454, would you switch it back to a Pontiac powered ride? You do have a nice car by the way.

go quick,
already been there done that with ta454. he tried to state the "lower price quotient". i shot that down, since im an eagle dealer(see 455v 454 thread)- he responded with anger and frustration, his credibility in question.
can you please give us something else to yuck, yuck?
show me state cheers
jim

7T2, Are you going to be at K.C.I.R. next weekend for the Nos. meet? My Vega should be there, easy to spot with flamed paint and of course a Pontiac engine for power. Since my chassis guy never got to some rule compliant updates, I might have to either load it on the trailer early ( if it's a really good feeling pass, I'm not lifting!) or slow it down. I'll be there with my neighbor and his red primed 60 Falcon., so our pit area should be easy to spot.

go quick,
sorry- dont get up that way much. since im in springfield, i either run at rogersville or Mokan. next year i will be expanding my perimeter in lieu of new products. very exciting stuff that i can pm you about if youre interested.
jim

You're right about ta454, I think he just comes here to stirr the pot. He started the pi$$ing match by insulting me, but when he ran out of ammo, and I PM'd him to clear the air, he was too much of a punk to even respond. Oh well, it takes all kinds. Daver

damm you pontiac guys are going to chop my head off then.,i got a nice 74 gto and i did put a sbc in it.,.i LOVE my pontiac gto but i did not like the 400 pon motor in it. so it had 2 go,now heres the kick in the nuts part.my motor has a duel quad intake on it.so now i cant find a old hood 2 cut up.or do i cut the good one i have(shaker hood) wich i dont want to do.(but i will if i have to:doh: ).,so feel free to bash me iam a man and can take it.,lol.,lol.,





ps iam ,looking 4 a hood 4 a 74 gto or ventura.,.,.,.,thanks

I think it would be easier to sell the gto clip and put a nova front clip on with a fiberglass hood. What you got in there? is that one of those "summit" tunnel ram kits w/450 holleys? You got a 305 or 283 w/double humps and a bracket master cam? That is a good combo and may get you in the 14's like a guy I know with a chevelle.

Pittbull; Yep, put a built tunnel rammed slow block chevy in a car and brag how it runs compared to a stock Pontiac engine. What does it run at the track? A sbc won't compete with a simularly built Pontiac engine. Like it or not, that's how it is. BTW, I came back to Pontiac power after going too damn slow with built chevies, both slow block and big slow blocks. Ever have a 8-71 blown 496 inch bbc in your ride? I did in a pro street monza. When it flew apart, I still had a 455 Pontiac laying around so in it went. Compared to the previous 2 chevy engines without blowers, the Pontiac would kick their butts all day long. You think a chevy engine was the way to go, but tell us what is in it. Then do an equally built Pontiac. The chevy will be slower.

wow all that :clap2: 2 u.,.its a built 357 with 521 hp 2 the rear wheels.if u think u can beat it come try this lam ass chevy.,.and if my gto cant beat u then try my vega(single diget car) :cool: .,.i was just telling you guys about my ride and u come on here and bash me.thats just not right man.,but whatever

Who gives a %$#*
 

Pontiac only engines was somebody elses era, it's not mine. If I had a LS7 engine, I would not think twice about dropping it into a old Pontiac body.

Pittbull; Your vega vs. my PONTIAC 400 POWERED vega. Single digit car eh? Cool. Where do you live? By the way, I have a 350 +.060" Pontiac that will match you and it is a 92 octane pump gas only engine with no power adders. 1 holley carb that flows 900 cfm. 578 hp and 548 tq at the peaks. HP avg. across a 4000 rpm range of 468hp from 2500 rpm to 6500 rpm. I wasn't bashing you, just relaying my experience. I know what it takes to get the power you say you have. Congrads. But I would still like to know what was done to the Pontiac engine. My 400 Pontiac made 653 hp @ 6400 rpm on 92 octane pump gas. 1 carb. What will your 357 make with 1 carb and 92 octane?

Ken K, chevy engines in anything other than a chevy era is long over. Put a Pontiac in a 63 Vette and increase the value.

haha

chevy in a pontiac is about as "right" as a gto built in austrailia. GM did it on both accounts, but then again, that doesnt make it right

I have a nice '73 hood.

WOW is all I have to say. I know this is beating a dead horse but isn't this a non-pontiac motors section? I'm a younger guy (23) but have been around muscle cars since I can remember. I am one to like to keep a nice original car in that shape (with maybe modern upgrades that won't demean the car) but I am also an avid customizer (have built a few custom frames, interior swaps from late-models to older, as well as drivetrain swaps). I understand some of the "purists" as you've been called here, being irritated with the fact of a typical chevy motor in a Pontiac, but what happened to the days of run what you brung? I've heard the stories from my dad and the guys at the shows and cruises I go to that swapped motors from anything they could find to get their cars to run with someone else. You say an equally built pontiac will outrun a built chevy, I say your wrong. I am not siding with chevy, but stating you put the right amount of time and work into ANY engine and it'll run. There will always be something faster, you say the Pontiac engine is faster, but why don't we see more of them in the drags? I personally love the Pontiac engine but saying one is better than the other is non-sense. It all depends who built it and what's done. Yes the Pontiac makes awesome low end power, but so does a well built 383 chevy motor. (you see where I am going). I have seen ford motors outpower chevy and pontiac, and vice-versa. I'm all about keeping a nice clean original car that way(depending on if it's desirable that way). Now if it's a 63' Fury or something with a straight 6, no a/c, and ripped seats, might as well dropp a hemi in it with a 727 and go to town. My 69' will be getting a very up-to-date engine/suspension/tire-wheel setup. Some of you guys will probably yell at me for it but again it's my car. I give props to someone who wants to modify a car in a good way (you all have to admit SBC are MUCH easier to come by and cheaper than a pontiac, so a young fantasy racer with very thin pockets can easily get started in the game with a SBC). To sum up my soap box ranting, good luck with your car, I hope you enjoy it. me, I would have either kept the 350 or gotten a 400/455 to drop in it's place and done it that way, but hey I've swapped SBC's into fords/chryslers/etc with friends of mine. Guy I know has a 9 second stang with a N/A 355 in it. Main idea about this hobby is to enjoy it. You may enjoy your cars plain and original with no frills, others may enjoy theres a little on the wild/crazy side and dare to be different, when it all comes down to it we are all in the hobby for the same reason, it's something we love doing.

RAMAIRZ, What is the reason are you getting rid of the Pontiac engine? What is wrong with it? Had to ask. btw, I've put a Ford 460 into a real RS/SS 69 camaro just to tick off a diehard chevy guy who put a chevy engine in a nice 2+@ Mustang. He liked to have died when we blew his doors off with a ford powered chevy. I think he refianced his house just to buy the car from us so he could take out the ford engine. Should have went and done another early camero with anything else we could get other than a chevy engine just because!:D

Nothing is wrong with the engine. It's a 92,000 original mile 250ci OHC straight 6. I was going to build a Turbo OHC 6 for it, but decided to go against it since I have a LSx based Gen III engine on a stand that I would rather use. Will be much cheaper and make more power. I usually like to go the odd-ball route but the cost to get the straight-6 where I wanted it did not sit right with me lol. I could build this motor for half the price, make twice the power, it'll last, parts available just about everywhere, oh and good MPG :) Was looking into building a 455 Twin Turbo setup until my fiance got me this motor. Will build another "true" pontiac after this one is finished :)