another value question - rustfree car - with pics
 

A whiney friend has been bugging me to post about the value of this car.

The owner is wanting $8,500. I think that's too much. I think it's worth more like $6,500.

However:

It's a rust-free california car, still in california. Has a few issues, but nothing major - no rust. Still wears the original paint (supposedly).
Doesn't look like the paint can be saved though, too many scratches and nicks - and some primer spots
Has original california black plates (not licensed for 25 years)
Two owner - all documentation

Looks like it's solid - just no motor or transmission
2:93 open rear, air conditioning car (all a/c is there)
Dash is cut for crappy radio - rear deck is cut for speakers

The big plus is the lack of rust - almost none (little surface rust on the frame you see)
And all the stainless/chrome is very nice


I keep telling him it's a nice 'survivor' but not good for anything. Basically needs everything anyways, except for extra bodywork.
it's a hurst dual gate and a/c car - that's about it though

Opinions?

He thinks rustfree + california black plate + documentation + 38,000 original miles = $

I counter: it might, if it had a driveable paintjob and the original drivetrain. But as is, it's just another goat needing resto - albeit one that doesn't need much bodywork

YO
 

:Peace:

fyi I AM THE FRIEND who found this 67 gto!!!!

Long story, it is for sale. I absolutely love it. I found it for another buyer however, and the buyer is unsure if he wants to spend that much for it.

So if it falls it'll be for sale through me, since I am borkering it for the owner.

good luck borkering it, bryan
i like my goat too - but that's a little...wrong

Yeah, an 18 year old kid broker....That will work...NOT!

*scratches head*
bryan was having me post 'cuz he didn't want people knowing where it was, i thought

anyways - i don't have anything to do with it
Harass bryan about it

What difference does that make?!?!? You were 18 once.

Just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm not a good businessman. And I'll stick to my guns on that. I've already had several successful sales of this caliber.

I just wanted to get some input from others...the price is high but it's everything mentioned above. I've already got my own goat...and it's fun to get the sales experience.

I'm just curious if there's any value in the car. I strongly feel so, enough that the 8,500 for it is justified with the rustfree body and it's a Cali desert native car....cali black plates...38k doc. miles and so fourth.

Anyways, just wanted to see all in all if the price is justified. The owner is sticking to 8,500 and no less...the guy who wants it is considering it, but he says the price is a little steep so he'd sleep on it and let me know. Just waiting for his final decision. In the meantime, just was curious if people could see the good (or bad) going for it.

:smash: Bryan I think Baron is right and as far as you being such a good hotshot salesman--Tilt--When your trying to sell someone a car, Don't keep changing the price every 15 minutes. Like when you tried to sell me Baron's car and said you owned it and that it was by your house in SoCal but as it turned out you didn't own it and it was in Ohio. To much BS there Bryon and with all your screwing around I lost a hell of a deal on the right date coded engine. Your in way over your head and the BS will always shine through. Good thing Baron called me and explained to me that he owned the car and the car is in Ohio and has to be shipped to Ca. instead of me making a 5 Hr. drive to pick it up. All your screwing around cost me alot of money, lucky for me that I didn't give you any money on the deal yet--I would be down at your house jerking you out of it by your neck. Baron is an honest guy and I made the deal with him, on the other hand you are just a young BSer sitting at a keyboard. I hope people don't believe much of what you have to Type and if they do they just might get burned.

Bryan, you are a true Ponti------------------------------------------------------------Yacker. Not much Ponti but a lot of ----------------------------------------------------YACK------------------------ :bolt: :bolt:

I don't know any of the personalities involved, so I will stick to the question at hand. I think $8,500 is too much for the car. The hacked up dash and package tray don't help. If it had the matching motor and trans, then yes. IMHO, $6,000-$6,500 is more in the ballpark and what I would be willing to pay for the vehicle. I have a line on a complete NOM all original 67 P/S, P/B, P/W, A/C and original push button radio for not much more than the one your asking about. Still trying to finalize a price on my deal.

Marshal

I don't understand exactly what is going on between 3 of the earlier posters, but to me is looks like possibly a repaint. Where are the stickers on the inside of the trunk, and doesn't it look like a lot of overspray in trunk? My Opinion
Gary

Maybe it's my rusty east-coast mentality, but after restoring many rusty cars, I'd give $8500 for a rust-free real GTO all day long.

No kidding uh? People who don't have to deal with rust have no clue how lucky they are.

$6000
 

For a rust-free body with no drive-train and a cut-up dash, I think $6000 is a fair deal.

Been here awhile and read lots of Bryan's post. Just my 2 cents, Bryan...spend more time focusing on finishing your senior project. You have spent a lot of folks' time helping you with recommendations\feedback\experienced advice on your project.

If you want to be a car broker, have at it. But learn the business first by working with an experience muscle car person, understanding the market, its influences and supply\demand. To be a respected car "broker", you need a lot more to bring to the table.

Just some constructive feedback, do with it what you will.

What happened: Bryan tried selling a car i owned, that i said i'd sell to him for xxx price

Bryan tried to 'broker' it and sell it to someone else, but didn't tell that person he didn't own it (in fact, he said it was in california, in storage near his house)

Eventually, i found out and Bryan realized he couldn't make $ when it would cost $1,000 to ship a car from Ohio to california, so bryan just gave me his phone #, so we've now got a new fella on the board - 66 Goat (who will soon have my '66 tripower for a restoration)

unfortunately, 66 goat lost an opportunity buy a WS engine for the goat because of it all - was waiting to buy the car and thought it was in california - had planned on going to buy it that weekend but obviously couldn't, when he found out the car was over 1,000 miles away



anyways, i'm trying to encourage bryan to simply ask for finders fees - instead of trying to 'broker' with other people's $

he asked that i post that inquiry on the rustfree car so protect his identity - then immediately posts saying it was him

oh well

Anyways
The notice that there aren't stickers on the trunk is a good one - i bet it's a repaint
and at 8,500 - you're paying a lot for originality....

On the other hand, you'll probably pay 4k for a decent GTO and it'll need 3k in bodywork and won't be nearly as nice as the body on this one

Question: Can this car be a work in progress driver with minimal effort?

If someone gives me name an number to the location of this car and I buy, I will pay finders fee.

Bryan's baby - i know nothing - just posted the description and pictures at his request

he did tell me it hadn't ran in 25 years - i suspect it'll need brakes, gas - everything rubber

That would work for me. If it is something I can work at that can be driveable with miminimal work I am happy. I will restore later.

Bryan, Let me know. Tell me what your finders fee is and I am good for my word. Hook me up!

Car looks decent based on pictures. Rust free is blessing if true. Trunk looks good, floor pans most likely good. The interrior shot shows a decent interior, dash about $375 or so...... Looks to be complete and a nice project for someone to start with. I don't think $8500 is too high.......my 2 cents....

Brad

I agree with with mwritter and Brad. Half of the cars out there don't have original engines. If you can avoid welding and work with what is bolted on, you save alot of money, and the integrity of the body is still there. If I wasn't busy with my project, I would consider buying it for $8,500.

Well if Bryan if brokering the deal for the buyer and the seller won't budge off of $8,500, then what will the actual cost be to the buyer for the car?

Why didn't Bryan just post the pictures himself? This BS (not to mention his reputation on this board) would seriously make me think twice about dealing with him.

$8500 does seem a bit steep for that car. It might sound like a good deal to you rust belt guys - ASSUMING it is indeed 'rust free' - but then you have to get it home. You'd likely be $10k into a relatively plain jane '67 that is missing a drivetrain and still needs a total restoration.

BEWARE.
 

So after being a real nice person and giving bryan benifit of the doubt, he decides to bend me over. This all went down on Friday night.

I offered to pay $6K for the car sight unseen plus his outrageous $600 dollar finders fee. He emailed me and the guy said he'd take 6K if he could keep the emissions parts because it is rare. I thought that this is a wonderful deal. I told bryan to give me until early next week to secure funds and he would receive payment then. I only have about 3-4K cash and it isn't like I have it sitting at my house either. I told him I'd have no problem getting the money. He told me fine, but I need full payment up front. I said no problem. He also tells me that he is excited this car is going to a younger guy that will enjoy it. No demands for immediate deposit were made either. You would think the deal is done as we move forward. Its not. I get an email that said:

WTF?

Number one, if has had the time to order PHS, his dad should have already looked at it. More importantly, if you already have a deal struck, you don't push them off to sell to anyone even a family member. You can pull the I can sell it to whoever I want statment, but kiss off.

Is someone else out there trying to buy the car too other than daddy? I have no problem with it. I just want to know.

This is what I get for giving someone the benifit of the doubt.

$600 finder free. I guess some people just need to milk others for every dime they can..too bad.....a real hobbyist would just tell you where the car is at not try to make a buck......sorry to hear that....

i don't have the phone # of the guy, rugratmat (or i'd give it and my 'finders fee' would = dinner)

bryan sent me the photos and asked that i post it all on PY with that description, because he didn't want people to know it was him with the car
i was just trying to be nice and got caught up in this...

for some reason, he immediately posted saying it was his and offerred it for sale
i wasn't involved beyond posting the photos for him


(66 goat is a completely different story involving bryan - 66 goat just happened to post it on this thread- i met 66 goat through bryan - bryan was trying to sell my '66 tripower and pretended it was his) - long story
(bryan eventually gave me 66 goat's # after he tried to come 'pick up' a car that wasn't exactly in california (more like, Ohio)
I didn't know this was going on, either
I had offerred my '66 tripower car to bryan, but i didn't know he was pretending it was his for sale - more of his brokering, i guess

anyways, i straightened things out with 66 goat after i got his # and had sold it to him
i think 66 goat has had some issues come up and can't buy my car, now
so it'll probably be on here at some point

as for the '67 - i'm not involved at all

Everyone had enough?
 

Guys-
Many of us have tried to teach young Bryan the proper way to do things (fixing cars, dealing with people, etc). It is clear that we are wasting our time. It seems there are always extenuating circumstances for every situation. I can understand it one or twice...but everytime...no way. Frankly, it seems like we are dealing with 2 or 3 different people under the same account name.

Most of us are here because we are a small community who share a love of Pontiac cars. We work together on many issues, both car and non-car related, and are lucky to same such good "virtual" friends. He needs to remember that.

I don't want to hear that same excuse "I am only 18" anymore. Either you have an ability to deal with folks fairly and honestly and only with the best of intentions or you don't have it. I feel Bryan does not have it.

I wish him no ill-will. However, I will be not be responding to more of his requests for help, solitications, or question regarding anything. Folks can't keep taking without giving back.

I'm off my soapbox...

I almost always keep my opinions to myself, but after following this thread and reading many others by Bryan, I say this. You have been busted. Own up to your mistakes, make ammends and be done with it, before this post completely tears through your reputation. Earn your respect, keep your word and if everything is upfront and honest you will have nothing to hide. Don't give people a reason to think of you in a bad light. My two cents. This is written to be constructive, only. Mitch

Oh, and Adam- I hope this turns out in the best way for you, whether that means getting the car or not. What happened to getting a turn key car???

I have decided to pass. If he is pulling this, I can't trust his word on the condition. Yes, I seen the pictures, but they don't always tell the story.

As far as a turn key, I was close enough for me for the price. If was all there (minus a small thing here or there). Out of the two motors and transmissions you seen in my garage/basement, I would have had it running and on the road within two weeks.

It is the truth. Bryan is trying to squeeze every cent out of this car. He will not give location of car.



This is exactly the truth. Once Bryan found out I was interested, he contacted me directly. I knew who I was dealing with and I gave him benifit of the doubt.

OK--Here's the actual picture--Bryan's an 18 y.o. punk kid sitting at home in Daddy's house, not paying for a damn thing. Daddy is some Doctor with money--Bryan tried to pull the same bulls*it on me but in my case he told me that Daddy was part owner of the car and Daddy would not let it go for less than another $1,000.00 above the amount that Bryan offered it to me for. The funny thing was that I didn't call him about at all--I called him about a 428 block that he had listed on ebay--as I was talking to him abouut the block he told me that he had a 66 gto tri-power with 4-speed that he would sell me for $5,000.00--said he owned it and had it at or buy his house in so.cal--well he kept changing the story--at first it didn't have an engine or tranny--needed to get off the phone because he was just bushed--this is like in the middle of the day WTF (I'm almost 58 I don't need a nap in the middle of the day)then 3 hrs. later it did have an engine and tranny and would sell it to me for 11,000 or 11,500--asked him "How in the hell did this thing get a engine and tranny in it in 3 hr. and also taking a nap?" Told him I'd think about it and let him know. Day or 2 later told him I did not want the engine or tranny and just go back to the original deal of 5,000 for the car--this is when he pulls the Daddy wants more bulls*it--I made a final offer of 5,500 take it or leave it, so call Daddy right now and find out--calls me back awhile latter and says Daddy said ok to the 5,500--I said ok I want to pick it up tomarrow (saturday) or monday--have the trailer lined up ready to go--tells me he will need a week or 2 as he goes to school full time and has to pull the engine and tranny out of it--I said ok. In the meantime I lost a right date coded WS engine complete rebuilt short block to standard for 1,000 because of the Daddy bulls*it and the time it took getting straight answers(I thought)Someone else got the engine while Bryan was playing his BS game. Next thing I know Baron is on the phone telling me that he owns the car and its in Ohio. If I,m ever in his area or driving past his area for anything--I WILL lock him up and kick his little ass.

:rolleyes: And everyone thought i was the bad guy A$$ over that rear carrier and gears deal last fall. People like this i don't have the time of day for. Sorry you had to get sucked into this guy 66. Not everyone in the hobby is like this, but these guys are out there. They're just getting younger. I'd better keep a closer eye on my paperboy!;) :attention

Sorry to say Bryan, but you are all done here! Your rep is trashed and you will be hard pressed to get it back. I actually held out hope for you, and just thought you were a little naive, but now it is clear that you are a calculating deceiver and a con artist. GAME OVER!

John

Bryan you suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, this is really blowing my mind. I thought we were dealing with a very sincere, if somewhat naive, young Christian boy who always abided by his Christian beliefs to the extent of not drinking, smoking, keeping his chasity until his marriage night, etc. etc. and would never think of scamming someone, afterall that's why he set up his own business.

But after this thread his true nature is revealed as a conniving scamster who is a chronic liar and will do anything to make a buck off any transaction that he can get done, regardless of the consequences for either the buyer or seller.

To anyone who may get involved with him, I say: Caveat Emptor!

To Bryan: I think you need more actual (real world) spiritual guidance than you've alledgedly been given. Maybe a business ethics class would be more important to you at this stage than all the empty santimonious piety you like to throw out there. A person's character is defined by their real actions, not how much religious dogma they can spout. Good Luck boy, you're gonna need it.

Damn brother. I was thinking that the deal went sour only because you found out he was brokering the sale of the car. he was pulling the same crap on me as he did you. Thanks for posting your complete story.

Now, Adam, just be sure you don't go offering up any "old fashioned a$$ whippings!" LOL!

I recant any statements I made to you in regards to this guy. LOL!

You know what all??????

1.) I see a big issue here in the fact that we're going off of the infamous "he said she said" analysis.

2.) I am an honest businessman, enough said. I do what I can to help others, the problem is I'm only human. Not everyone is going to like me, and not everyone is going to get along with me, either.

3.) Have I ever tried to be a "con artist" as you say??? I've tried to be a loyal asset to the PY boards...and while I know I probably know absolutely know nothing about anything...it doesn't mean I can't make some mistakes and correct myself from that.

4.) You need to realize that I really do like Pontiacs. It's all I like. It's my passion, I wak up in the morning and it's all I can really think about.

5.) Mabye I come off as arrogant or stupid, but mabye that's how I come across. I can't change that overnight.

6.) One thing I am sick of seeing in our hobby is the failure of acceptance for the next generation of Pontiac lovers. You know why so many kids my age buy hondas or chevys??? The people who own them want to be open about their hobby!!! I swear, whenever I go to an all pontiac car show or a gtoaa meet...everyone thinks I shouldn't be there. I saw one guy at a show with a really neat 71 GT-37. I tried to ask him some questions about it and if it was original. Here I am with a pontiac hat, a GTO shirt...a binder of pictures of my car with my phs docs in my hand, and he tells me to buzz off and play with my other Honda friends. Like I'm just some stupid kid who doesn't know anything but to tie my own shoes. Well you know what??? I'm out there literally having to figure it out myself on my gto because you guys think that only the old geezers should be allowed in! Well guess what, believe it or not that's not going to scare me off. Just because I wasn't around when these cars were at their heyday doesn't mean I love them any less. But it really is the other people in this hobby that take the fun out of it. I stopped going to gtoaa chapter meetings because of just the general attitude towards me being the youngest member there, like I didn['t belong or that I wasn't worthwhile. So you know what??? I enjoy my Pontiac by myself!!! Which is upsetting to me because I like meeting up with other like minded people. But I'm sick of the attitude I get when I try to talk to "Mr. Pontiac" about a 428 YH code engine, and he trieds to downplay whatever I say. So I stay away, son't go to car shows and whorde all my knowledge and Pontiac parts to myself. You guys are losing a real asset to the hobby if you make me feel that way.

7.) Con artist??? How have I ever been a con artist??? And how is 600 bucks unreasonable??? You want a car? Go find it yourself. I'm a full time student . I take time out of my day to go and find this stuff for other people out of the kindness I have, but I can't do it for free either. I have a GTO that I am literally paying for out of pocket now...and I have bills to pay on it. And I think for that, 600 is fair. I describe everything I sell or try to sell, and I do my best to my knowledge to help anybody with a Pontiac to make them happy. Yes, I'm in it for the money but I enjoy this hobby as well.

I don't need to explain myself anymore. But I'm almost to the point where I'd rather be a Pontiac guy who whordes all the Pontiac parts I have to myself, anything about my car, or any help I can give...and say get lost. I really enjoy anything Pontiac, but some of you guys really take the enjoyment out of it.
:mad:

...but I thought you ran into the guy at a convenience store parking lot or something
 

[QUOTE=Bryan Jensen]You know what all??????


6.) One thing I am sick of seeing in our hobby is the failure of acceptance for the next generation of Pontiac lovers. You know why so many kids my age buy hondas or chevys??? The people who own them want to be open about their hobby!!! I swear, whenever I go to an all pontiac car show or a gtoaa meet...everyone thinks I shouldn't be there. I saw one guy at a show with a really neat 71 GT-37. I tried to ask him some questions about it and if it was original. Here I am with a pontiac hat, a GTO shirt...a binder of pictures of my car with my phs docs in my hand, and he tells me to buzz off and play with my other Honda friends. Like I'm just some stupid kid who doesn't know anything but to tie my own shoes. Well you know what??? I'm out there literally having to figure it out myself on my gto because you guys think that only the old geezers should be allowed in! Well guess what, believe it or not that's not going to scare me off. Just because I wasn't around when these cars were at their heyday doesn't mean I love them any less. But it really is the other people in this hobby that take the fun out of it. I stopped going to gtoaa chapter meetings because of just the general attitude towards me being the youngest member there, like I didn['t belong or that I wasn't worthwhile. So you know what??? I enjoy my Pontiac by myself!!! Which is upsetting to me because I like meeting up with other like minded people. But I'm sick of the attitude I get when I try to talk to "Mr. Pontiac" about a 428 YH code engine, and he trieds to downplay whatever I say. So I stay away, son't go to car shows and whorde all my knowledge and Pontiac parts to myself. You guys are losing a real asset to the hobby if you make me feel that way.

Have you been getting lessons from Uncle Brucie?

[QUOTE=Karch]There isn't only 1 GT-37, and who said it was where I lived. Try using some logical reasoning here

Bryan.. You might want to check out the Business / Exchange section.......... Good Luck.. Your going to need it...

Now Bryan, your realy making me feel sorry for you. You poor little con artist--cost me alot of money Bryan with all your bullsh*t.

What a bunch of crap.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...en_members.jpg

Yup, he looks like a straight arrow uh?

You are incorrect bryan. It is called personal experience also known as references in the business world.

You are not honest. If you were, the people on this board that have had sucessful business transactions with one another, would not be wondering where their $130 is at or why they were over charged significantly for shipping, or why they were not given the correct merchandise. You are right that not everyone is going to like you, but a mass majority from this board doesn't.


You are not loyal.
How did you correct with selling Baron an incorrectly described carb?
How did you correct yourself with 66 GTO trying to sell him a car that you said you had at your house?
How did you correct yourself with overcharging freigth on a distributor?
Did you ever thank Kurt for donating to start your business?
How did you correct yourself for flopping on the headers?

If pontiacs are your passion, you are the first Pontiac Enthusiast that is not worth knowing or mentioning.

We deal with arrogance and stupidity on this board daily. It is why we are here and ask the questions we do. We don't care to deal with a con artist. That is the issue here.

It is not your age that people find wrong with you. I was your age going to a GTO swap meets, car shows, etc... I never had a person be rude to me. Even the "elderly man" that had his GTO out.

I didn't complain about the finders fee up front, because I knew it was going into your car. I personally would only ask for a dinner sometime for a finders fee, but 600 dollars is really being rediculous. That is 9% of the overall price of the car! What I have a problem with is I am paying that much money for a service that once we struck a deal, you say, "uh my dad is now interested in the car". I am still in college, work full time, and I am trying to run a household with a mortgage. If you want to play the song and dance game, we can all join you. We do not pitty you. Welcome to the real world.

And people like you take the enjoyment out of it for us too. You would only be doing yourself a favor whording all the pontiac parts you have. From the sounds of it, it is all crap.

Bryan,

I really don’t know what you are talking about. I’m young too, (21 in 24 days, not that I’m counting) but people have always been helpful to me when I have questions. You have to remember that you may have a forty year old car, but these people were driving them new from the dealer’s lot. Like my mother and her 69 Camaro. When I first got my car at 17, it took me a month to figure out how to lock the doors. Who knew you have to hold the button down when you close the door? Not me, wrong generation. It all depends on the attitude you have when you talk to people. Ask them intelligent questions, listen, and wait for them to finish. Don’t demand or expect anything, but respect the fact that they have more knowledge then we will ever have. Your attitude will take you far, and from your rant above, I think you have the wrong one.

Hmmm
 

...little Bryan mentioned he no longer goes to his local GTOAA meetings ("I stopped going to gtoaa chapter meetings because of just the general attitude towards me being the youngest member there, like I didn['t belong or that I wasn't worthwhile."). Could it be that he tried pulling the same crap with thos folks and they are tired of it as we are? Hmmmmm....anyone see a pattern developing here?

Shut up old man. You think you know everything? Well I am 25 and I know more than you.

;)

smart boy!
 

Respect your elders, Rzrektd! :D
(damn...how you'd know I was gonna be 40)