Help 'decoding' a radiator tag
 

I found an approximately 1" X 2" tag on the lower passenger side of the radiator. The following information is on the tag:

303011 or 3030111

IF
AE FC
156

I would appreciate any information decoding this radiator tag.
Thanks, Greg

Here's a picture of the tag

Yea thats right, Harrison right?
That hose clamp should be at 6:00 o'clock not noon.
Later,
Brew

The tag didn't have a 'Harrison' logo on it that I could see.

Should the part number have 11 or 111 in it. It was hard to tell if the third 1 was just a mark or a number 1.

The package would have arrived today except that Fedex Ground doesn't delivery on Mondays. I'm sure it'll be here on Tuesday!

Thanks for the tip on the hose clamp. At least my original GM lower hose, complete with embossed numbers in the rubber is installed right side up!

Had to poke around quite a while before I finally found that radiator application in my MPC's, Greg!

Finally found it - application is for a 1974 Firebird, all 455's - including 455SD's - with the HD radiator option OR A/C. The PN 3030111 is indeed correct for that "FC" tag code.

Hope this helps!

Brewster, I've run across a few very original Firebirds in some old salvage yards that don't crush any of the cars and they all had the tower clamp pointed at 12 o'clock like 165th's car.

Hate to butt in but seems like a logical place to ask a few other 2nd Gen Harrison radiator questions.

The 4 core Harrison radiator from my 4spd '72 T/A has round flat type screw in plugs in the holes where tranny cooler lines would go in an auto radiator. I believe these to be original, as I've had this project & radiator for a lonnnnng time & had other what I believed to be original 4spd 4 core Harrison 2nd Gen radiators with these plugs. Also, the Harrison 4 core radiator I have marked to recore & go back in my '79 4spd car also has these plugs (would take a large flat head screwdriver type bit to even attemp to unscrew). Both of these radiators appear to never have been through a radiator shop.

Can anyone support my belief that the 2nd Gen auto tanks were used but were plugged at Harrison with these plugs for 2nd Gen 4spd use??? Realize original Harrison 68+ A-body 3 & 4 core radiators used a solid passenger side tank, as I have a wide variety of original A-body radiators.

Last, have a good friend who is doing a concours resto on his '73 4spd SD. What code 3 core Harrison would be correct for it? Would it also be "plugged"??? Going through all my Harrison radiators later this week & would like to pick out him the right one. THANKS IN ADVANCE..

Lloyd, that is very helpful. Thank you very much.

How can you distinguish the '73 year from the '74 year based on the tagged information?

Interesting observations, Roger. Can't add anything, 'cause EVERY Pontiac I've owned until my Sundance GTO has been A/T equipped.

Here are the radiator codes from my June '77 MPC:

As in 1974, the 1973 455SD cars called for the same radiator as the D-port 455's Even many 350 and 400 Firebirds used these same radiators when A/C or HD cooling equipped.

Standard cooling M/T: tag code "FX"
Standard cooling A/T: tag code "FU"
HD cooling or A/C M/T: tag code "FT"
HD cooling or A/C A/T: tag code "FW"

Refer to my reply to Roger's question - different tag codes altogether.

Glad to help!

Thank you!

In 1973 the lower hose clamp is down at 6:00 o'clock due to the over flow bottle and trans lines being in the way on the installation of the hoses.
The upper hose clamp is often seen at 12:00 through 2:00 o'clock and seems standard through out the years, and all seems correct.

However since the over flow bottle was installed after the radiator the question is when where the hoses installed? assuming with the radiator. What I've noticed in the field on the lower clamp is pointing down at 6:00 but anything is possible.

Lloyd, my Service Manual states the LS2 should have received the FZ radiator instead of FW. But, of course, might have actually changed when production of these cars started.

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I thought I would add my pictures to the question.
'74 Formula, A/C, 4 speed.
3030109 is the original P/N.
IF is the 4 core tank on the drivers side.
CV is the manual 4 core tank on the passenger side (Greg, yours is an auto so AE is correct).
FA is the pick code (for assembly line personnel).
And, I believe, 156 is the actual 4 core config (center section).

Roger, as you can see, I have no plugged auto holes.

The 1970 and 1971 Assembly manual shows the upper radiator hose clamp at 45 degrees from the top vertical hose centerline towards the drivers side which puts it at 10 o'clock position.It shows the bottom hose at the 6 o'clock position,both .74+/-.06 from end with that much hose left to the end. It shows the V6's hoses with the clamps in the 12 o'clock position.It also shows the upper hose clamp where the therm.housing is at 45 degrees toward the drivers side from the rear centerline of the thermostat housing,and where the lower hose joins the water pump 45 degrees towards the pass.side from the front center line of the hose when mounted to the pump. All 4 positions use the .74+/_.06 from the end of the hose for the clamps. This is seen clearly on page L30-13 of the assembly manual in the section titled "Engine and Engine items". I would guess other years are close if not identical to these two years.

72 T/A 4spd did not have auto trans cooler with plugs. This is the original rad to my 72 TA 4spd

Agree with necdb... I've had '70 and '76 original HD 4-spd radiators that had a clean/no hole/no plug right side tank.

If you look at the picture I posted, you can even see that the tag shows a "CV" tank. Look closely at the tank and you can read the "CV" on the tank.

Yup - same as the two I have. CV end tanks are not easy to find...

Some times I like looking thru the old threads just to gain more knowledge......

The original Radiator in my 70 T/A has these plugs. I had it recored but they are the original tanks.

Automatics had a "CU" passengers side tank and Manuals had a "CV" passengers side tank. GM was notorious for using "parts that fit" when they were short just to keep the production line moving. Like the sway bars on 70-71 TA's that we have discussed. I could easily believe GM ran out of CV manual tanks and just plugged the opening for the tranny cooler on auto tanks and installed them on manual cars. Easily.. That is probably what you guys are seeing here with original tanks with plugs. BUT...CV is a manual specific tank and CU is an Automatic specific tank.....

Hello guys, I'm dragging this old thread to the top. I'm trying to see if I have the right radiator for my SD. I have two to choose from and neither have the radiator tag, but both have visible tank Codes. HFR has identified both codes here, and in another thread for me. I have both a radiator with an AE tank code and another with a CU tank code. Would either of these be correct for the FW Radiator Tag Code that a 73 SD Auto no Air should have?

I may have a spare radiator after I determine both year applications here.

Thanks

This may help. Here's the tank code and tag off of a 38,000 mile unrestored '72 Trans Am automatic with air:

Tank code: AE

Tank tag:
1A
AE
128
FI

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1440213712

Thanks for that info 165. Can we say that these tanks were used on at least 72-74 cars with HD radiators, or am I reading to much into that?

If anyone has a '73 with an AE or CU tank I'd sure like to find out what applications those fit. Actually any years with those tank codes because I'll probably need to get rid of the extra.

We're talking about an SD car? Do you list HD cooling on PHS or was it standard fare? Where did you get the FW code from?

I got the FW code from my '73 parts book as correct for my SD. I'm ASSuming that's correct? That's list for both HD Cooling and AC Cars. FU is listed for Std Cooling.

I do have an Option listed as Radiator-HD w/v01 code on my PHS. And my build sheet shows a listing of FZFC in the Radiator box. The AE was in the car when I bought it and I thought it may have been swapped because the tag was missing. I picked up the CU from the salvage yard a few years back thinking that may be correct for my car as it was from an AC car, but I don't recall the engine it had.

The actual tag you are looking for is the FC one (as SD's were built at the end of model year, they were using the '74 codes). It has FC IF AE and 156 on it.

Great info! Can I ASSume the one I have with the AE tank is the correct unit for that car?

I just looked at the Service Manual and it did state the FZ should have been for the LS2 and it changed to the FC when stock was depleted (hence the two sets of codes in the box). Yes, you should be able to use the AE radiator. I can't assume whether it's the correct one or not. Was there anything left of the tag?

Tag was MIA. The previous owner did say he had it serviced at some point so I'd bet the rad shop lost it. Is the CU I have also correct for this app? It appears to have the same 4 flow vents inside it too.

Maybe, if a FZ tag had the CU listed on it. Dadsformula had one for sale a while back but I don't know if it had a picture of the tag. And, I don't know where TPP (The Parts Place, Inc.) got the info to repro a FZ tag.

I didn't even realize they were popping the tags. I'd guess the AE is original to that car. I'll check if they repro that tag while I have it out anyway.

A heads up to anyone looking. I see that Ames has the tags for FS and FP radiators. I'm still looking for partsplaces tags....

They list it as a '71 tag and it uses the '71 FS codes.

https://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/Pop...D=CS10486F.jpg

I found a pic of the repop FZ, it has the CU code on it. The FS has a CU also. I'm hoping I can find an FC tag with an AE on it as I'd bet that is what my car had. That is if like you say, these tags are done accurately.

Here is a '73 Firebird base 455/auto, HD or AC 350/auto radiator tag. 3027948 (has a 3 on the end, I wonder if that was for the year) FU IU AE 112. 3 core (w/4 core PS tank).

This is the tag off my 71 trans am. It's the original radiator. Is the "112" the code for the radiator core?

Also, I have a 70 radiator I want to get recored, but the tag is missing. I see that the Parts Place sells tags, does anyone know what the core code would be for a 70 FP radiator (tank codes IF and CV)?

112 is the core.
'70 FP IF CV 91 are the correct codes.
Repro by TPP (of course, do not order from link. Wrong tag pictured.).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350999943591

Yea, I saw that the picture on their website was wrong, thanks for the eBay link.

Refreshing my comments on old old post. Figured out since my initial post in this thread, 12 years ago, that the Harrison 4 core radiator that was in my '72 T/A was not original, but had been swapped in. The dime sized screw in plugs for gutted automatic tanks were occasionally used by Harrison, have ran across them quite a few times, but since no factory 4 core radiators were avail in '72 Birds, no possible way the prev radiator is original.

Correct, I used to work as a tech when those cars were on the streets. The replacement radiators had the plugs so they could be used in either application.

As well as original equipment.

I'm not saying it's not possible, I have just never seen one.

I have many times

I can't speak to the 2nd gen Firebird but I do know about the '64 A body, GTO included.

The manual trans Code 50 and Code 59 radiators in '64 did not appear at the beginning of the Model Year, they are not listed in the Dec. 19, '63 revision of the Tempest Inspector's Guide.

My own Nov. '63 Fremont built '64 GTO is a 4 spd car with the auto trans Radiator installed with plugs. I cannot be certain it is original but I have no reason to suspect it isn't.

More compelling data can be gleaned from the '64 A body Shipping Order records for the Kansas City and Baltimore built Tempests. These records identify the Radiator Code.

Early year manual trans GTOs will show either the Code 57 (2" thick rad) or the Code 58 (2-5/8" thick rad) which included the Oil Cooler and was also used for auto trans GTOs.

Later, the Code 50 and Code 59 manual trans specific 17.5" "tall" rads were released.

Throughout the Model Year some manual trans GTOs continued to show the Code 57 or Code 58 rads on the Shipping Order while other manual trans GTOs will show the Code 50 (2") or Code 59 (2-5/8") rads which were manual trans specific without Oil Coolers.

I have found no evidence to suggest this was a coding error and the rad coding seems to have been random, not tied to any other option choice. In my opinion, the Shipping Order Rad coding indicated the actual rad installed in the build so that many were built throughout the year with "plugged" auto trans rads while others got the specific manual trans rads.

To complete the story, in '64 the GTO rads were the 17.5" "tall" rads. They were used with 326 applications with A/C option.

The 15.5" "short" rads did have specific manual trans for Tempest 6 cyl and 326 applications as identified in the Dec. 19, '63 Inspector's Guide.

I have not seen enough data to know if these manual trans Tempests always got the specific manual trans rad or if they also occasionally used the equivalent "plugged" auto trans rad in production.

It is my opinion that in '64 PMD did NOT expect to produce as many GTOs as they did so that early year they did not choose to release a specific manual trans 17.5" tall rad as there simply wouldn't be enough demand to justify the inventory.

Later as GTO sales took off, they did release the Code 50 and Code 59 but GTO sales still outstripped order quantities so that the Assembly Plants continued to substitute the Code 57 and Code 58 as needed with blanket authorization from engineering.

PMD did NOT service any of the manual trans '64 Tempest rads, only the "dual purpose" auto trans rads.

I have no idea if the same situation existed for the 2nd gen Firebirds but with the declining sales of manual trans cars generally, it certainly wouldn't surprise me. Carrying a large inventory of a rad expected to have little usage would not make sense so that substitution would be a reasonable solution whenever the factory ran short.

And as the '64 rad usage shows, it definitely would not have been unprecedented.

When you see a lot of evidence as OPH and Tellyshavilli have, I tend to think that it is very unlikely that they were all Service Replacements.

I wonder what the GM parts catalogs would show 4spd vs. auto? If they are the same part numbers? Obviously what they did on an assembly line could vary from what's in a catalog though.

My observation on 4-speed 70 T/As (and my RAIII Formula, which has its original rad...) has been that the standard radiators had the plugs. The heavy duty radiators (cars fitted with performance axle or A/C) had no plugs or provisions for the AT heat exchanger.

My '65 GTO uses a radiator with plugs: the part number and broadcast code on the radiator match the build sheet found above the gas tank, so it's original.

That is true, but usually the tendency is for the production part to be more specific (a more correct application) and the service part to be more generic: one part covering more applications so that fewer part numbers have to be stocked for service.

K

I agree as that has been my personal experience but, naturally, I haven't experienced everything

I know this is an old thread but figure I would add some additional info.

Just scored a WC 71 HO 4spd long block, rear 3:42 no A/C from a 71 T/A a friend removed years ago. With the engine came the original radiator. It still has the tag and original tanks on it.