D80 Cowl Tag Info Needed $250 Finder's Fee
 

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C.C. Musclecar-Trader

From the 69 order sheets I've seen the "322 TA Package" was the only way to get the rear spoiler on a firebird in 69. It's possible that there was an early order sheet with it listed, but I doubt it. IIRC they made the first 303 TA's take the TA spoiler off and run a Camaro spoiler until they were coming off the production line.

But anythings possible.

Couple of questions.

1. How long have you owned the car?
2. Does the car have a spoiler?
3. Is there a spoiler listed on the PHS report?

Also, the last I heard there was a Sheriff in Ohio that would reproduce cowl tags with anything on them.

Does the car have an early build date? I'm thinking it may have been an early car, before they decided to limit it to the TA???

I agree, it's a cool puzzle.

Wasn't the rear spoiler that looked like the Camaro's put on 69 Birds? (not pedestal mount)

first off is it a 400 car (accd to phs)?

does info on trim tag jive with phs?

eg..03B date on tag....is invoice date on paperwork april or late march?

do paint and trim color codes shown on trim tag match your phs?

9th TA convert? (kidding)

again....

1. is it a 400 car (accd to phs)? or is it 350 or sprint 6 cylinder or?

2. 03B date on tag....what is your invoice date on PHS paperwork?

thanks...

Is it possible that this trim tag was made after one for a Camaro with a rear spoiler? Did they make Camaro's at the Lordstown plant? Maybe the operator just neglected to remove the D-80 stamp from the die set?

Interesting question - didn't the green 69 convertible on I Dream of Jeanie have a spoiler on it?

intersesting , hoping to see some resolution of this ,since we didnt get to a consensus on the 'other' site before!

Boss, yes the Green car on IDOJ did have a rear spoiler. IIRC.
If anyone has that episode on tape please let me know!

They did not make Cmaros at Lordstown...Norwood Ohio and Van Nuys California only.

They didn't make any TA's either - so how would they have a D-80 die to begin with? Where were the cowl tags made and when were they mated to the bodies?

This stuff is FUN and I'm looking forward to the resolution.

I believe the cowl tag was installed at the fisher body plant.

Trim tags are stamped at the fisher body plant...the build date on the tag referes to when fisher began build the body. The Fisher plants are at the same location as the Chevrolet plants (in norwood: two seperate buildings two sepeate divisions...one piece of property)

For what it's worth, Firebirds were built at the Norwood Ohio plant (along side camaros) starting in late spring of '69 (did they stop production at Lordstown completely??:confused: ) I still doubt that the D80 is a carry-over from a Camaro...even though trim tags are known to be messed up sometimes (being the imperect products of imperfect humans)

There's a Service Bulletin for refinishing paint for certain things.
The spoiler was mentioned for the Firebird, and it didn't say Trans Am.
I would think if it was a Trans Am only option it would say for the TA.

my 69 was 'early' production (it even has the 68 vent balls),made October 68 , in Lordstown

We're going to need Matt on this one....

The info you posted on 1/23 is generally correct.
The transfer of Firebirds from LOR to NOR was effective 4/14/69. The last cars out of LOS were 05A's.
JohnZ, who wrote the must-read assembly article, was responsible for gutting Lordstown to launch the Vega. Did you know the Vegas were shipped via rail standing on end?!? The batteries, fuel systems, etc were designed not to spill with the car standing up.

Back to your tag, I've never seen any extra codes on LOR tags. I have no idea what to make from it since D80 was a NOR only stamp and LOR never put spoilers on a Firebird (since they didn't build T/A's).

If I am not mistaken, that green car from I Dream of Jeannie also had the 69 T/A fender extractors.

Does the PHS show what dealer the car was shipped to?

Kurt,

Branching out to the Pontiac world, eh? I did a double take when I ran across your post:D

I would have loved to have known of anyone having an original picture of the car. I was too young back then.

They have the show on TV Land - I happened upon the re-run a year or two ago. Major Healey pulls into Tony's driveway in it and parks behind the 67 GTO.

Joe,
I caught your posts too. :) I see some other familiar names here.

I've posted before, but IIRC, it was on the old version of this forum and on the CP site (but what a PITA that forum is to use!).

There's way to many similarities not to be looking at both Firebirds and Camaros for research info. :)

What were some of the features of the IDOJ Firebird?

The trim tag shows the D-80in the center of the tag. On a Camaro the D-80 is to the far right (if this makes any difference).

I'm still of the opinion that if it's not a TA and has a D80 code the Bird would have a Camaro style spoiler.

Look at this link for some Birds with D80 on the cowl tag.
I would say some of those weren't TA's. The ones with 5050 color could possibly be TA's but the others probably not.

Trim Tag Codes

:)

I'd like to see tag pics, but there's two other LOR cars, built the same time, that reputedly have D80.

John,
Do you have contact info for either of those tag submissions?

I talked to you about your car. I don't recall discussing any other cars.

> ARE THEY OTHER D80 CARS LIKE YOU THOUGHT THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PRODUCED?

I don't know if any others were made. My comment was only about the data on John's website.
I'm not holding out on you......

Can you confirm that is a D80 and not B80? The pic is a little out of focus. And it interesting that one of the tags on John's site says B80.

A few months ago I pursued the Lordstown Data Plate question to see what I might learn. My own passion for chasing answers to such Pontiac riddles is long gone. Out of respect for those that still are passionate about such trivia, especially all of those that I was able to share my fascination and findings with while researching a great many Pontiac questions thru many years and for anybody that is seriously interested in advancing the knowledge base of the Pontiac hobby, I'd like to share the following.

1. Pontiac announced 2/69 that the TA would be built at Norwood and Van Nuys, with production to start on or about April 1. Obviously, Pontiac already knew at that point that Firebird production would end at Lordstown by end of March and be shifted to Norwood. So the TA announcement did not include reference to Lordstown and no TAs would get built at Lordstown.

2. Fisher-Norwood, which had been Camaro only, had begun coding special Camaro Data Plate codes (Kurt S. can pinpoint the timing and the codes) prior to the arrival of the 'bird. When 'bird production commenced in April, 'bird Data Plate codes AEE and D80 were immediately used, designating the Decor Group option and the Spoiler associated with the TA respectively.

3. Van Nuys coded a Production Sequence code on the Data Plate. By the time it was hit by a strike in May, only 20 TAs had been produced there and no special Data Plate codes were ever used to denote either the Decor Group or Spoiler/TA. The strike effectively ended production for '69, when the strike was settled in June only cars that were in production when the strike began were completed.

4. Fisher-Lordstown 'bird production ended in March, '69. The final 'birds were assembled from Body Assemblies showing Time Built codes of 03B and 03C.

5. Prior to 03B, no Lordstown Data Plate shows any special codes denoting specific options. These codes were once known as UPC codes, in more recent times GM has affixed a SPID (Service Parts Identification) label to every car they build with the entire range of these codes pertinent to each build listed. The codes are now known as process and option codes and the decode for each can be found in Section 0 of the Factory Service Manual for the vehicle.

6. On certain 03B and 03C Lordstown built 'birds, Fisher coded B80 or D80 on the Data Plate.

7. Fisher-Lordstown, which produced big Chevys and continued to do so after 'bird production was terminated, did not apparently code any Chevy Data Plate with any UPC code.

8. There is little doubt that the B80 code on Lordstown 'bird Data Plates were 'bird specific, intentional, and likely a UPC code. B80 had always been the code for Roof Drip Rail Molding. The 'bird Data Plate that so many here have been quick to criticize is from a Convertible equipped with Decor Group.


Whether the D80 on that Data Plate is a factory typo and should have been coded B80, or if perhaps D80 meant to designate the Decor Group option on a Convertible (no Roof Drip Rail Molding), a misread of a B80, or whether it might refer to a Spoiler (TA type or Camaro type) or something else altogether will require more study. With the help of John Wallace, I was able to contact two guys by email with Lordstown 'birds showing the B80 code. Both promised to send info, neither did.

There is a listing at Trans Am World (John Wallace's site) that shows Data Plate info with the D80 code noted. It is a Coupe and supposedly a LOS Data Plate with an 03C Time Built code. However, the Body No. (43267) makes no sense. A Van Nuys 'bird with an O3C Time Built code would indicate the Plant by VN, not LOS and the Body No. would be around 520***. I have a strong suspicion that the posted Body No. should be 543267 and a Lordstown (LOR) 'bird rather than Van Nuys, the Body No. being consistent with 03C Lordstown 'birds. I was unable to contact the Owner who submitted the info. With one mistake, none of the data listed can be considered reliable, but it would be very useful if the car and Owner could be identified.

Since there is such a small window for Lordstown 'birds that might have the B80 or D80 code, it will be looking for a needle in the haystack. Anybody interested in pursuing the question further can pick up where I left off. Best regards.

John,
I've come to the same conclusion:
It looks like something changed in the coding of the mid-March LOR tags. I've been talking with John W to chase down some details of those tags, since noone has seen pics of them (other than the tag being discussed here). :)

That's a good point - later LOR tags from big cars don't have extra codes on them that I know of. I've got some contacts that I'll confirm that with.

I owned the second Trans Am built at Van Nuys, bought from Mark Rubin in '87. I'll have to see the invoice (at home, I'[m not), but I recall it being a June body with a July execution (build completion) date. This does not align well with dates mentioned above.

Since I no longer own the car (sold in '96 to Jim @ Heartbeat City, likely parted out due to messy title), I have no record of nor access to the firewall dataplate. I don't think I recorded that info anywhere, except by memory that it had "D180" rather than "D80". I'm thinking the body build date was 06A, but might be wrong.

In case you guys want to perform more research, the VIN was 119035. Four speed and console, wood wheel, stack-n-tach gauge set, blue custom interior, deluxe belts, AM radio, Rallye wheels. Clean body shell, original components except the carburetor, every date code and number matched. Most beautiful un-pitted exhaust manifolds and heads I've ever seen.

Tragic that I was not able to keep it at the time, and that it is likely gone from existence.

Glenn,
I'd be interested to see the PHS docs on it.
I expect that it was shipped in July, though the body was built two months before that.

Does your b-i-l or brother or some relative :) (who is into Camaros) still live up here? If so, then that car got parted. I think he got $4K for the hood back then.
If not, it's not the car I'm thinking of, but it still got parted. :(

If that was #2 and they only made 20 and the last one is only 200 VIN's higher than yours, that means that for the last LOS Firebirds, one out of every 10 was a T/A!

Kurt, you probably have me confused with somebody else. I have no brother-in-law, no brother, no relative any where near Michigan. I got connected to Jim S through another Michigan collector I was acquainted with.

Only "Camaro" connection I have is a dear friend who ordered a new 69 Z28 in Nov 68, he still has it unmolested and unrestored. Funny how it's one of the best "survivors" on the planet, and it gets passed over at most car shows. People cannot believe the underhood finishes are original paint and try to argue with him. Gets tiresome.

I have the "list" from Fred S somwhere but it's buried in some file somewhere. Like John V, I do not pursue this stuff with the same passion I once had for it.

I thought that was a little too early for the T/A that I was thinking of.
This one was a nice original car that Jim bought a few years later and reputedly almost tripled his money by parting it out.....

Did the body shell have a sectioned lower left quarter panel? Repair was for a lost tire/wheel combo.

For the record, I got 13k for the car, with one extra but incredibly rusty hood. Rubin sold me the car with that crappy hood, which was the only non-original piece I got when I bought the car. Mark S sold me a hood that was a good skin grafted to a 350 frame. That went with the car also. Other than that the extras were very few. JS also bought a very original 70 TA auto/AC car from me during te same deal, a little rough, for another 3K.

If he made money, fine, that's his business. I didn't have the heart to part out either car.

Hmm, the amount he paid was about right. I never saw the body shell.

Jim has no qualms about parting out perfectly good original cars. And he then sells the shell to someone and then sells them all the parts to make it back into a car! Quite the business model.....

I asked some friends about other LOR products (full-size Chevys) and they have found 3 other tags with RPO codes on them.
All 3 were stamped Z21, one convertible, 2 coupes. 10D, 03C, and 06C/D.
The Z21 was stamped in the same position as the D80/B80 on this Firebird tag.

Interesting that it that one of the cars was way back in Oct. I'm surprised it's so infrequent; Z21 (exterior style trim) shouldn't be that rare of an option. So maybe not all tags were stamped.

I remember that car... well, not actually the car, but the ads Jim ran in Hemmings for all the parts. I called up and asked him why he was selling all those parts, when from the parts he was advertising and their descriptions he had a nice complete car. He told me he did have a nice complete car, but that he could make a lot more from it in parts than whole. I didn't doubt it (T/A's were "underpriced" as cars back then, IMO), but it made me very sad...

I do now. As you can see, it's a custom job.

I should add, the rear looks a lot like the Barris creation "Superteen".

Shoot, just noticed everything was talked about in this thread...
http://www.forums.maxperformanceinc....d.php?t=560046

Another B80 car showed up on ebay a few weeks ago.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=270552863137

Kurt, you mean D80?

Looks like D80 to me.

:confused:

Wasn't the others a 350 2bbl also?
(except TA)

:confused:

I believe I got confirmation from the seller it was B80.

Cool!

Need a better pic.

:)

That was the best I could do. ;)