? for big car enthusists / builders
 

i was asked so i'm asking the rest of you. what's the most frustrating thing about restoring a big pontiac?

i'll be busy pushing snow for a few days or weeks, so i'll stick this and check back when i can.

thanks, mike

sheetmetal hands down.....only company that makes any repro sheetmetal for big pontiacs deals in absolutely grabage pieces and I will NEVER purchase from them again...
I'm tempted to start cutting quarter panel sections off of the parts cars I come across, because I know theres a demand for them and I know where theres alot of big 60s pontiacs in fields that are not completely rusted...

Lack of repro replacement parts, mainly sheetmetal, but other items also such as limited slip diffs.

it hard to find parts from any one i have a 62 b v try and find some nos side trim the long ones the inteior is hi. find a good black and clear wheel . and its just hard to find the things you need .front end parts it is ezer to bild a 65 chevelle

sheetmetal is about impossible to find for my 65 and a decent geared posi is impossible to find.

Without a doubt, the paucity of availible reproduction parts whether sheetmetal, trim, chrome etc. Its certainly a challenge finding such parts reasonably priced in suitable condition to complete a restoration. What makes its most rewarding, however, is showing up at a car cruise or show and certainly causing a stir among both car collectors and the many car admirers....

pitted pot metal parts
 

They're expensive as hell to chrome and seem to be cast from unobtainium.

The availability of QUALITY parts but also...

The fact that seemingly not long ago there were a ton of these cars available for not much $, & now that I have finally gotten around to getting mine in shape, they are all being crushed or sold for too much $.

Don't tear up too much Mike.

How about they are so big you cant work on them in a "normal" size garage. The parts thing has been a pita for a while but you really need a shop. I can fit the car in the garage but have to leave the door open to walk around it. Other than that and the parts I love the thing.

Being in Australia!!!!!!!!!

Love the place & would never consider living anywhere else but its a pain in the wallet and arse to build a US car here, especially full-size Pontiac or Olds.

Dave

Put a rust-free pair of '66 Catalina rear-quarter panels on eBay and watch the bidding go through the roof. Or even a damn battery tray! Why is the full-size market so ignored? I certainly don't understand it. The lack of sheet metal irks me to no end, but echoing what others have said, it is the lack of parts in general. It seems to me that companies like Year One or Original Parts Group would stand to do pretty well if they tapped this market. Ames is a big disappointment. I'd rather spend more for NOS than buy their RE junk. Dave

Being new to this game, I have to say OUCH....because I am gonna need some sheetmetal this summer. In the rear of my 73, behind the tires, at the bottom of the car....in that pocket area of the trunk, all I got holding that together is the paint, lol. It's a shame to hear that a company would produce and sell crap(Ames). I wonder if they think they have good products??

Should I start looking for a patch for that now?

sheet metal, sheet metal, sheet metal..

and good dashes..

In case no one else has mentioned it, sheet metal. Fender and quarter patches, trunk pans and battery trays. '65 tail panels would be nice too.

I won't say sheet metal is the biggest frustration (but I'm thinking it). One thing that's perturbed me is what-fits-what between other GM vehicles and Pontiac. Someone should write a book.

I would say sheet metal also........anyone have a set of 66 2+2 1/4's for sale??? Dave K.

So, the 65-66 repop metal quarters being sold on Ebayright now are no good? That figures. I asked if they were originals or repop, got an answer right away. Then I asked what gauge the metal was and never got an answer.

Oh, to answer the original question: sheet metal and electrical parts that are 1 or 2 year only, and specific to pontiac. I've been really lucky with posi's, rally gauges, and some accessories, but that is all it was. pure dumb luck (or maybe good karma?)

Ahh, alright...I'll forget I flamed Ames like that and go back to being ignorant. But like you said, I will check here first if I ever need anything. Thanks.

Did anyone happen to mention "SHEET METAL"? The 63 I'm restoring was purchased new by dad in late 62. I'm lucky. No out of pocket expenses on buying the car initially. But, based upon prices for NOS and availability of RE parts these days, I'll have a fortune tied up in this car before it hits the streets. I roll my eyes when the chevy guys moan and groan about repo sheet metal not fitting correctly. I'd be happy to struggle with a repo trunk pan or quarter panel that didn't fit properly. The availability and usability of used sheet metal is dwindling. Most parts cars I've seen from AZ appear to have spent many of their days in my neck of the woods. It continues to make my restoration project a challenge. Out of curiosity, Steve Snyder (Indiana Pontiacs) asked me what I'd pay for a repo trunk pan. I'd have no problem putting out 600-1000 depending upon quality. Hey, Goodmark, Sherman, PY, Ames. Help us.

trunk pans etc
 

Why did all of the trunk seals leak? All previous owners should have spent the 16 bucks for soff-seal or steele rubber products. It would have saved us thousands...

I look at the trunk parts of other old cars in the SoCal Junkyards. I'm always tempted to just cut some old metal out and do the patchwork.

Mike, Thanks for posting this thread and the sticky!
 

This big car forum is kind of slow. I check it often for posts, but rarely find many new ones. Maybe this sticky can breathe some life into this forum.

Pony up the posts boys and girls. Maybe we can make it better than the "Show us your car" post that was kept alive for a long time.

How about a decent piece of taillight moulding(?) for a 64 Gp. I'm sure they were die cast using pitanium.

They guy that bought the 2+2 I had told me he knows Steve Ames. He acutally bought the 2+2 he had for sale a couple of years back. He talked at length about why the lack of needed parts and he said that he was not given a good answer why. He mentioned the tail panels in particular. It seems like the hobby and its suppliers are doing so well off the everyday muscle cars that the others are just not cared about. Just about everyone I know with a 65 fullsize would buy new trunk pans, head light bezels, tail panels, and quarter and fender patches. It almost seems like they dont want these other cars to gain populairty, kind of what Barrett Jackson had been acused of.

Here ya go, Hollander Interchange manuals have been around for decades and are a nice addition to any automotive library. Used by slavage yards and collision shops for years, it will cross reference any part that will exchange directly with any other parts. Both mecahnical and body parts included.

Try this link direct to Hollander website. The books aren't cheap but shop around for best price.

I'm going to take this discussion in a different direction, we all know how difficult it is to find quality resto parts and the high prices when parts are found. The next most frustrating thing about restoring big chiefs is the probability that even a top quality resto done by owner on a desireable car won't guarantee a fair price if you ever decide to sell the car. They just don't appreciate as quickly as the better known muscle cars, but on the flip side can be purchased much cheaper than say a GTO. Good original or GTO project cars have all but disappeared over the past couple years and those still available command insane prices. I'm seeing incomplete rust buckets with NOM selling for 10,000+!

I predict that within the next decade we'll see a snowball effect in regards to the Dynacorn bodies now being produced. They've got brand new 69 Camaro coupes and vert bodies selling like crazy. Not sure what else is now available from that company but i'd bet we'll soon be able to purchase a brand new body for many of the most popular musclecars sold back then.

Sheet metal
 

Finding sheet metal is not close to impossible. It's impossible. Been looking for front section of passenger 1/4 for 62 Bnvle for 6 months. None to be had.:(

This is in body shop tech, also
 

On ebay from "classicparts4u" http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=140074863073.
I'm looking for feedback on these panels. Has anyone used them? I have a car I want to drive, not show. Still, I wouldn't want to waste money on a part that is ultimately headed for the recycle bin.


There was a recent sale and I PM'd the buyer asking for feedback. If that buyer is on this board I don't know, but post comments on your purchase if you're here...

Fastboy, I'm pretty sure those panels are from the same company I got my quarter patches for my 63 from....
Don't buy them....Cut patched out of a parts car before you use these flippin things...horrible quality. They are hand-made panels and it takes alot of beating and swearing to make them fit. They have curves where there shouldnt be curves and low spots etc.
If your patient, you can make them work but personally, I will have to be in big trouble before I puchase these panels again..IMHO.....

???? The last I heard the quality was so poor on the verts that they couldn't hardly give them away. They are in the spotlight because a lot of TV shows have/and are doing build ups based on them. I'm sure these producers were either given these bodies are supplied them verrry cheap just for the advertising.

Also, full trunk pans for 61-4 are in the works, and they won't be that expensive. I'm just not sure of the timetable yet.

jerry, while you're at it, do 65/6 pans also.

mike

Jerry, This is wonderful news. Is this your venture or is someone else involved in the repros.

This is a venture that I am somewhat involved in. I can't really get into any details at this point, but I guarantee when the news hits, you will know about it. This goes way beyond just Pontiacs. I'm trying to get a few things pushed thru early on, like the trunk pans, some bumpers & brackets, etc. I just don't have any timetable at this point.
thj
And yes, 65-6 trunk pans are doable. We just need a good sample. That in itself can be hard. Some used vendors (even ones that do business here on this board) aren't being very cooperable. I guess they think new metal will kill their used business.

it would seem to me that repro pans would drive the price of the oem used up as more people would build the cars.

if you didn't have to cut one out, i'd drive my car down so you could measure it.

mike

i'd also like to see some of the lucite stuff for g/p's repro'd. steering wheel centers, dash emblems, ect.

mike

If I wanted easy I would be into Mustangs.

Parts are hard to find, good parts are made out of unobtanium, but it's all worth it once I get behind the wheel.

Sheet metal. Sheet metal. Posi parts. Sheet metal. And all the dumba$$es who say "too bad it ain't a GTO"!!!!!!!

Tail panels(inner and outer). Heck anything on the rear of the cars. I wonder how many fullsize pochos would be on the road today if such parts were available. With that mentioned thier are a couple of 65 Cat coupes on ebay right now for sale for well under a grand you guys could cut up and use as templates.

Thanks for the feedback 1963pontiackid. I have made contact with the fellow that bought the panels. He's having them installed professionally this summer. I will check back with him then and find out if they were a success. That is, unless I've taken care of my body issues before then.
Hitman, your car looks terrific on the other post. Tell me, do you think a 245 would fit, or is 235 really the limit without getting other wheels. Your car and mine will be absolute twins before long.

the lack of "out-of-view" stuff for DarkSiders and especially in my case, '62s:

- polyurethane / performance suspension bushings
- fat front & rear sway bars
- upper control arm shaft kits, lower ball joints, center links and idler arms (that last like GM or Moog)
- brake shoes with riveted asbestos linings (Raybestos 160RR 191RR)
- interior windlace (around the doors)
- performance/ semi-performance front and rear shock absorbers
- electrical stuff (for example)
- Safari rear window switch (both dash and rear interior types)
- Spring steel heater control contacts
- all those odd, solderless crimp terminals

OK, I'll quit this stream of consciousness...

i bought a set of those panels on ebay and they are alright.

will take some work but they are still deicent.

if you dont HAVE a parts car like most of us dont, or have been waiting for ages to find panels these are
a good resort. plus if your bodyman is talented it wouldnt be a problem.

All you big car guys looking for sheetmetal, try ALL American Classics in Vancouver, Wa. Been there a billion times and am telling you there is lots of good sheetmetal available. No, I don't have a vested interest, just trying to tell you where to get some pieces to keep them big cars going and get them restored. 360-254-8850, T-F, 9AM - 4PM, Sat 9AM-1PM, I think.

venemous type: just curious, but what year car did you buy those panels for? I have heard from a few people besides myself that the ones for 63's suck, but maybe they are decent for other years...? I've only seen/worked with the 63 ones.....

mine are for the 66.

Being the manager of an auto parts store allowed me the time to figure out that, on the '63 Cat at least, the shocks (front & rear) are a direct cross to the '91-96 B-Body GM stuff, so the Edelbrock IAS shocks & any other performance shocks for those cars will bolt right on...

Awesome, you've got another buyer for them right here once they're ready. :clap2:

My 62 Cat is a California car.The only thing that is rusted out is the trunk floor.Not being able to find a decent trunk is the only thing that is holding me up on my restoration.
I would be first in line to purchase repo trunk pans!

BATTERY TRAYS
 

I know it was touched on, but I just did an exhaustive search of virtually every one reproduced, & re-upped my peeve on this one. There are a ton out there. These should be repopped for our cars. The closest thing I have found is a '68-72 Pontiac A-body. I am going to buy & hack up for an insert. Was wondering if doing a fiberglas cast like Stuart did for the shift porch would work with some metal ears inserted at the mounting locations.

i'll agree on the batt boxes every one i've seen is damaged.

burce,i think you'd have to reinforce the 'glass with metal to keep it from destroying itself because of the vibration and weight.

mike

Big car frustration...............
 

The single most frustrating thing about restoring big cars is their lower resale value when completed as compared to Trans Ams or GTOs with comparable, or lower, restoration costs.

Les

I bought a set of those Ebay 1/4's for the 65' Cat.. The guy is in Canada and they look like the could pass as siding for a shed. I bought them because they where cheap. I cut them up because I only needed that lower rear wheel openings. Don't expect them to fit right because the lines are totally off.
The lack of available parts is fun, it's part of the challenge. I've built Camaro's, Corvette's, etc. and it's getting to the point were there not restorations anymore but mere "bolt-on" builds.

you talk like thats a bad thing..