New guy here. have a 65 catalina and i have some questions ???
 

hi guys. last september i bought a 65 catalina 4dr. it was all original except for the back seat and paint. it had brand new white wall tires and new brakes all around i paid only 1000 dollars.

some info on the car.

blue/white 65 4dr
389 v8 with 2bbl carb
automatic


now im in the procces or semi-restoring it. after this big storm that recently kicked our butts here on the maine coast i found the bottom of the car to be full of water. so i figured now (2 days ago) would be a good time to rip up all the old carpeting and stuff. so i got the front seat out and ripped all the old smelly nasty carpet out , and all the stuff under it. i was amazed to find the floorboards completley rust free and solid ( amazing for being 40+ years old and being a maine car ) while doing this i noticed one small wire on each side running into the trunk , are these the brake and tail light wires ? one of them was cut. there is also a wide strip of somesort running along the drivers side , what is this for ?

the engine runs good but is pretty tired and has 102k miles on it, the tranny feels very smooth and shifts good. now i have a fe questions about the tranny , i want to put a mtx in it , will any trannys out of say a bonneville or gto bolt up ? im thinking of rebuilding the complete engine and replacing the rope rms with something a little tougher. im also going to put some type of intake on with a 4 bbl carb. what would you reccomend ?

im also wondering on how to get the back seat out ? i didnt look much for bolts but tommorro is suppose to be nice so im gunna try to get it out. i know theres more questions i have but im tired and cant remember all of them.

if anybody could give me any advice that would be awsome. im 20 years old and i love this old car and im going to try to do most of the work myself. thanks so much guys

fattie


edit- heres some pics i took a few weeks ago.

http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/106...4888433_th.jpghttp://aycu19.webshots.com/image/120...7363095_th.jpghttp://aycu28.webshots.com/image/142...2232064_th.jpghttp://aycu23.webshots.com/image/139...2306583_th.jpghttp://aycu20.webshots.com/image/126...1462171_th.jpghttp://aycu33.webshots.com/image/116...6686667_th.jpghttp://aycu11.webshots.com/image/142...2882189_th.jpg

congrats on the cat, it's a looker in that color scheme.

the rear main, use the bop neopreme seal.

re the rear seat bottom, push in at the bottom and lift up it'll come loose. the blots for the upper part will be visible then.

the flat strip is the wiring for the lights /trunk/ ect.

give us a color of the cut wire, if it's factory someone will have a schematic.

the trannies will bolt, but use a longer tailshaft. the th400 should be what's in your car. it's a tough trannie. also the manual linkage se up for your car is pretty tough to find.

define tired on the engine. does it burn oil? smoke or knock? low oil pressure?

it may just need some minor repair for the short term.

4-v intake and carb, if you're doing a basically stock rebuild then i'd hunt for a factory intake and afb carb. they're a good setup for the heavy cars like yours.

welcome to the forums,

mike

Welcome to the Darkside.....;)

Good to see another "Big Car" guy on here. Congrats on the Cat.
You will find a plethora of information here.
I have done a few mods to mine, including the tranny swap and intake/carb switch.
A simple search on the subjects should present a few posts regarding them. Good luck and keep posting.

If I were you I would only change the intake and carb and like prez said look for an original cast intake and 4bbl with the vacuum choke. You really wont gain much as I have learned thru asking with the other aftermarket stuff. They were designed at the factory very well for maximum torque for these heavy cars. The 65 line did not win car of the year for nothing. As far as the seat the last time I pulled a rear seat I pulled up at the top of the rear seat to free it from the hooks and then pushed down to release the bottom. As far as the bottom seat you will see how it comes out once you get the top part off. Rebuild that TH400 you already have a solid tranny no need to swap it out. Good luck with it from one 65 Cat owner to another.

Fattie,

Great looking CAT! It's nice to see that you don't have to be an old fart like some of us to enjoy the old Detroit Iron. Glad you went with Pontiac, they're awesome. And ditto on what Mike, Tanksa, and Hitman said. We'll all be glad to help you out with whatever you're working on, on that great old tin indian!

Ron

Welcome, & cool car.

I took my '66 2 Dr. Bonneville to ME twice. 1200 Mi. one way. Ferried it out to Isleboro for a whole summer one year. Drove it up Cadillac Mt. & all around Acadia area another. Great location for a Big Pontiac.

4bbl factory intake & Carter AFB will fix you right up. Find an original carb & don't go with the reproduction. Easy to rebuild & parts readily available. Better mileage & performance in the end. Add dual exhaust & you will be plenty happy with the result IMO. You can not beat a TH400 trans. Thrash it all you want.

If you do swap to a 4bbl manifold & AFB, I would try to find a whole assembly even if the carb is crummy. Then you would have the plumbing for a brake booster. I noticed that you have manual brakes. Car would be a bear to stop under the new 4bbl set-up. I had a booster that was going bad on me in mine, & really did not like the effect at all. Would be easy to convert. I bought a working booster off E-Bay for under $20 not long ago & swapped out my old one.

hey thanks guys. i didnt expect so many replys so soon!! ive been searching all over the internet for a forum that wasnt dead and i just found this one and im glad i took the time to look harder.

as for the 2 wires that run along the sides under the carpet. its just clear with copper colored wires. im gunna follow them all the way back to see where they lead.

well the reason i think the engine is tired , is sometimes it runs like crap and when i go out for a drive it will sometimes stall at stoplights and stuff. and it barley has enough power to spin the tires , even when i stomp on it.

so i should look for a stock 4bbl intake ? you wouldnt reccomend an edlebrock or something similar? is this car equiped with an egr system ? one more thing. do you now where i can find a decent set of headers without spending 500-600 dollar ? i was looking through summit and jegs and they have headers for the tempest or gto or something but they have the correct year of 65 so will they be compatible ? thanks so much ill get some pics of what i did inside.

edit- yea , the car looks ok but it has its fair share of dents and dings along the body , rust on the bumpers , the windows leak , right now i have them sealed with duct tape untill i get a nice day i can take them out , clean em up and have someone put them in right for me. the dash has cracks , the interoir has some rust from the previous owner not taking care of it. it needs a new glove box , left front door panel is gone. and i need a new front seat. but theres guy who lives about 5 miles from here , he has like 8 or 9 big pontiac , mostly rusted but if you guys need parts i can what he has , i know he has catalinas , a star chief i think and some other ones , mostly 60's. anyways he has a electric front seat that matches the rear , the rear seat came from him but the guy never bought the front. what would be a good price to pay ? i think he wants 200 , its mint just like the back seat.

ah , i didnt feel like editing again , but the compliments , questions and stares i get while driving the car makes it totaly worth it. people just seem to love this car. ever where i go they ask. hey what year is that ? what kind of car ? what kinda engine ? how old is that thing ? just the other day i was working on it in my yard and some older guy was joggin by , he was like hey is that a 66 , im like noppe 65! he said cool and jogged off. lol , i have a feeling when i fix this thing up it may help me get chicks ? who knows haha:drive:

See my edit regarding the manifold.

They make repop long branch manifolds that work fine. I would not fight headers. These are just as good for these cars & they will actually fit.

That is a fair price for an electric seat in good shape. You will like it. I have one in my '66 wagon. Be sure to remove it yourself carefully if you can & get the wiring (to the seat & to the battery) and the breaker on the firewall.

There is somebody on E-Bay that sells the gloveboxes. Have never bought one but can't be that hard to do a cardboard thing the right way I would not think.

Tell us what else he has. Always looking for stuff!

what do you mean you would not fight headers ? i thought that may be a decent price for the seat , but my main thing is will it bolt up ? ill just keep it manual cuz im not sure i wanna mess with wires and stuff. ames perf sells glove box's and ill probaly get one from them since there the next state over and seem to have decent prices. when i talk to him ill see what he has for cars.

Clear copper colored sounds like non-factory speaker wires. Yeah, 60's fullsize Pontiacs are cool but as far as being chick magnets? I dunno...maybe if you dig 45+ year olds! LOL
IF you really want headers and can't find listings for 65 fullsize, jsut search for 69 Firebird. Stay away from 3-tube headers. Summit headers will have to be stripped and repainted with extreme heat paint before installation or they will rust in no time flat.

well when i got the back seat up i found the wires leading to nowhere so im guessing they were just speaker wire. to be honest with ya , i wouldnt mind having an older women , i hate dating young girls there so stupid and immature. just 2 weeks ago my girlfriend of 3 years broke up with me because she wanted to go out and have fun and have no rules and drink and do drugs and be naughty with her friends. :(, so 69 firebird headers will fit ? why stay away from 3tube ? well im glad to find the whole floorboard is pretty much solid , its not rusted out anywhere so im very pleased. althought most the interoir peices are junk and ive gutta throw em out. but other than that im wicked happy.

Seat will bolt up no Prob. I would check out the archives on the headers. I know there have been a lot of headaches there.

My advice on the interior & the rest for that matter is don't throw anything away. You will find that locating parts for these beasts is a challenge. When you do find something, you often wish you had a part from whatever you took out to make it work.

i don't know mike, i just talked to a 20 yr old hottie who had seen my g/p and thought it was cool. there may be hope yet.

imo,headers would be a pita on a 65 b body. if i was set on them i'd spend the money for a GOOD set.

the long branches are looking better all the time to me.

mike

four door sedan !! haven't seen one of those in awhile, nice ride

if it's an itermittent drivability problem that doesn't mean the engine's tired. it means the car needs a good tune up / going over, possibly a timing chain. if the engine needs a major overhaul it's going to run bad all the time, smoke blue, have low oil pressure and probably make some noises.

the lack of power might be the result of 2:42 gears and a poor state of tune.

i'd start with a compression test and go from there.

mike

no blue smoke or anything but when it sits in one spot and runs it leaks a black mark on the ground. no idea what it is or why. maybe im running rich or something.

it sounds to me like you need to give the car a major tuning.

mike

what do you mean by major tuning ?

heres what i had planned.

fuel filter ( where is it ? )
spark plugs and wires ( what do you reccomend )
valve cover gaskets
water pump gaskets ( ive got some coolant leakage around this area and i think thats what it is )
coolant flush
belts ( where can i get em ? )
thermostat ( what temp ? )
new hoses ( where i can get em? )
dist cap and rotor button
points ???? i have no idea where they are and how to do em
oil change and filter and pan filters ????
fuel additive ?
alernator
starter
power sterring flush ( how do i do it ? )
anything else im forgetting ???

ive got a question about the rear main seal , i wanna replace it with a new one because i heard there made of rope and break easily.

and today i did notice the exhaust hada touch of blue to it so im guessing im buring oil. but i got it changed back in september and have oil put a few hundred miles on the car and i checked it today and it doesnt look like ive lost barley any.

one more question, the midle wire on the dist cap leads to a little cylinder with 2 wires , one is + the other is - , what is this ? a coil ?


thanks guys i wanna get this thing running good enough to be a dd. thanks

yea , im deffinitly new at the older car stuff. im only 20. i do have some basic automotive knowledge. i can do all the work myself , the only thing im iffy on is the points. can anybody answer my questions though ? thanks

if the rear main's not leaking don't fool with it unless you want to pull the engine. the only current seal worth installing is the bop unit that's a lip type. the rope style went to hell when they took the asbestos out of them. i've seen new one's leak worse than the originals since the change.

the cylinder you mention is the coil.

your list is a good idea for an initial going over on the car. add a pcv valve to it.

as a peice of advice, use top shelf standard products and autolight plugs for the tune up. the cheap points sold today are junk. put good parts in her and she'll treat you well.

buy a dwell meter for adjusting the points, it'll save agrivation in the long run.

buy either the oem manuals or a mitchel pro-series for it.they have better info than the chiltons.

i'd service the trans while i was there also.

mike

alright if it aint broke yet i wont fix it. why does this car have a coil and a distributor ? as for a pcv valve. those go in the valve cover , and there isnt one in my car. i belive my car is non egr ??? where are the points located and where would you reccommend i buy parts through ? ames ? ive heard horror storries of people servicing there transmissions and then they sh*t the bed. and it shifts pretty good right now.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the ignition points are inside the distributor cap. You loosen two screws to remove the cap, then there are two more screws in the rotor, and then underneath that is the points. They look like this:

http://z.about.com/d/autorepair/1/0/b/a/gm_points.jpg

Here are a couple online articles about replacing and adjusting GM ignition points. They're pretty much the same for all GM cars up till the early 1970s.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl517f.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/gener.../aa052502a.htm

Your car has a coil and distributor, well, because that's how ignitions worked on cars back then before fuel injection and computers and all that. The second link above has a short explanation of how the whole system works.

Your car is too old to have an EGR system, but it should have a PCV valve. There should be a hose sticking out of the side of the air cleaner, which is connected to the PCV valve, which plugs into a hole in the top of the passenger side valve cover. I suppose someone could have taken it off at some point and plugged the hole in the valve cover, but without seening the car in person it's hard to say.

As Mike said below you should look for "Standard-Blue Streak" brand ignition parts, in my experience they're generally the best quality. A good parts store like a NAPA should have them, the chain stores tend to sell cheap offshore parts in blister packs that I wouldn't trust. You can also get Delco factory replacement parts, but to tell the truth I'm not so sure about the quality of them anymore...maybe someone else can say if they're still as good as they used to be or not.

Again, find yourself a decent repair manual or tuneup guide and do some reading - they're not that hard to find. I was at a swap meet this morning and saw lots of people selling original equipment manuals, Motors manuals, and Mitchell manuals for $20 or less.

carquest carries the standard products as their premium line of tune up parts.

points aren't tough to maintain if you buy the good ones. get the service manual before you tackle them, it has a detailed procedure on setting and installing them.

mike

When changing the rotor cap make sure you put the round peg in the round hole.......after you take the rotor cap off look at the underside you will see a square peg and a round peg then look at the distributer top you will see the corresponding holes,just make sure square to square and round to round,if you put it on wrong your timing will be 180 degrees out of time also when buying points I use the "unipoints" or "lubripoints" with the condenser built in otherewise you'll have to change the condenser also and if you alternator is charging save your money for something else,belts should be easy to find,I myself prefer AC plugs .Go with a '65 four barrel intake and carb here are some pics of a typical '60's GM distributer setup....i hope they help and don't confuse you...by the way what part of Maine are you from ,I ahve some old friends in Auburn/Lewiston area Larry

Better pic of the 3rd page ........Larry

thanks , i live in the midcoast area. about 45 minutes from augusta. i guess somebody remvoed the pcv valve. theres a breather on one valve cover and theresa rubber plug in the other. where is the fuel filter located ? im gunna replace that also. thanks:D

The PCV valve is located behind the intake manifold on the passenger side of the motor in the Valley Pan or Push Rod Cover in a rubber grommet. The rubber plug is a stock 65 item, it did not replace the PCV.
The fuel filter is inside the inlet of the carburator.

One way to set points without a meter is to start the car (after you put the points in) and turn the adjusting screw clockwise until the engine starts to misfire and back off 1/2 turn. That USUALLY will get them real close.

Oops...my mistake. :doh: Thanks for correcting me, I should have remembered that.

No problem!

fuel filter inside carb ? i have an ames catalog and it shows a canister type , that looks like it would be under the body somewhere. ill have to take a look in the morning. where can i get good points ? the kind you reccomend , ames has some but there 14 dollars and probaly arent any good. thanks

fuel filters hidden in the fuel line between the pump and the carb. mine;s behind the p/s bracket under the alt. do it from the bottom, turst me. if your car has air, look up a 66 at carquest with a return line. 3 fittings, two on the top one on the bottom, at least if it's got a/c that's the filter. if you're gonna drive it don't waste your money on show parts.

as a side note on the unipoints. i don't like them, the springs aren't as stiff as the good stock style and they float in some instances. the condensor's have been known to fail occaisionally and it's nice to be able to replace it seperately. if you loosen the condensor bracket it should slide out and in without having to remove the screw completely. just a tip to save time and aggrivation.

good points are cheap the 14.00 sounds right. junk ones are 6.00.

mike

car has no ac. only power steering. ive got a question about changing my whole ignition. in the ames catlog theres a pertronix electronic ignition system , it says it will fit 57-74 , they also have coils. and there under 100 , is this a good alternative to the points setup ? if anybody has the catalog just take as look on page 130. thanks

Yes the Pertronix unit is a good unit,I had one in '65 Bonneville for 5+ yrs and over 50,000mi with no problems.....I would get the newer model the Pertronix II............Larry..............

i wouldn't use the pertronixs set up. they're very susceptible to voltage spikes and i've seen battery chargers ruin them. if you want to convert it the use the m-h electronics unit that p/y sells.

the nice thing about points is you can keep a spare set in the console / glove box for less than 20.00 and if it lays down on you with simple tools you can be on the road again in less than 1/2 an hour. kinda expensive to do that with a conversion kit.

mike

how will i know when they go bad ? the guy i bought it from said he had em changed once a year. so many choices

hey fattie,

welcome aboard!

It's GREAT that you discovered "the DarkSide". You will get YEARS of enjoyment out of your '65 and this a great place to post your questions and share your victories as you get that Cat dialed in exactly where you want it to be!!

btw, I believe the Standard Motor Products part number for their "Blue Streak" points is DR-3575CX...check eBay for replacement parts like this...

What'd be really cool if there is an experienced member of this board who lives near you so you can get up to speed quickly.

Ditto what Deadhead said... do NOT throw anything out until you're in the groove with your Cat.

btw, your pix from your first post were unopneable...did anyone else have similar trouble viewing them??

the old tune up recommendation was every 10k miles. i change mine when it starts to run bad or when the mileage drops off considerably.

once a year will, more than likely, be good preventative maintenance.

mike

that number doesn't sound right. i'll check the set in my console tomorrow if i think of it.

mike

well it deffinitly isnt running well , i go through alot of gas, i might get 8mpgs ? should i be adding lead additive or mystery oil in my tank when i fill up ? any of you guys heard of a guy named gary seekins ? he lives in south thomaston , maine. about 5 miles from my house. hes been into pontiac since the 70's. hes the guy who has the lot of old cars. i talked to him yesterday and heres whgat he has off the top of his head.

62 starcheif
66 catalina 4 dr
4 or 5 65-66 grand prix's
some other catalinas

hes got motors , intakes , tri power , posi rear ends i think , lots of good glass , door panels , interior , bench and buckets , dash's. ill be going back there in a week or so to get a complete list , but this guy hasa treasure trove of stuff.

some of the cars are rusted right into the ground but a few of the 65 grand prix's are ok. none of them have been moved since 91-92 he told me. i poked around a bit and theres so many good parts.

any idea if parts from the 65-66 cars will fit my cat ? i told him i need a 4bbl intake and carb and stuff like that. im going to drive my car up and compare parts and if they look like they mathc , then they should work correct ?

thanks

fattie,

the intake and carb offa '65 or '66 should interchange without worry.

Also! PMD made a change to the front steering design mid-year. What is your Cat's VIN? I have a list of the breakpoints by assembly plant to determine whether yours is the early or late design.

finally, ask the guy with that '62 Star Chief if is for sale to let you know (and then please let me know)! :)

Not only does your friend have a treasure trove of old Pontiacs,you have a wealth of information that you can mine from him.Find out when he has time and ask him to give a minor tutorial on all the things you're unsure of,like showing you how to install points,where your fuel filter is located,how to hook up a dwell meter and set your points if go that route etc....nothing better than hands on learning............Larry

vin= 25269 5e204341

yes , all his cars are for sale. but as far as body wise its probaly rotted to sh*t.

the car is now running pretty bad. i think its time to cough up some dough for tune up items. hope carquest or napa has some.

fattie

I will check into your VIN today or tomorrow.

If you have a digital cam, bring it with you next time you're out there...email me some pix thru my bio!!

mushie1965 has it nailed...get to know the guy, buy him lunch every time you get together and listen well as he serves up the experience...

i finally remembered to look at the p/n's for the points and condensor forthe g/p today.

DR70 - condensor
Dr2270P - points

DR2270XP are the high end points.

i use the p's in most of my stuff without issues.

by all means get some pics of the cars.


mike