What does a 1000HP cost?
 

Hey all, just want to know what you think it would cost to go one of our big name Pontiac guys and have them build you a motor from scratch and give you a 1000HP+. All good items...block, heads, billet crank, and all the immenities to basically drop the motor in the car and go racing? I just picked up my motor and it made a little over a 1000HP on the motor but I am not looking to say what I paid...just comparing apples to apples to see if it was overboard or not...I just want to know if anyone else has built something similar and approximately how much it cost them. BTW...its a NA 540.

my guess 35K plus or minus a couple.Tom

my high port engine made 928 with a nitrous grind cam, normal tension rings and only 13.2 compressioon so i would say by changing a few parts i could probably come close to 1000. i don't have an exact figure in front of me but it's about 22-23,000 without the carb and headers if i'm doing the math right in my head from memory.
that was a local build but i bet it's pretty close.

KRE street roots blower motor - a few years back it was 25K. Would imagine 30-35K today.

I would expect to pay at least 25-30K or more unless I did a ton of the work myself to save some $$$$.

The less work a fella did on the build themself,the more I'd expect them to hafta pay the builder.

Plus then there are all the little things too,was this including dyno time and such,that would bump the price as well.

it will be eazyer to tell (if it was worth the money)after you have run it...how much it was worth, and how long it runs before you need to take it apart.

I would think you could build 1,000hp for much less than some of the other estimates here if you went blown. A natually aspriated motor cost much more to make that much power. You would not need to spend a fortune on heads with a blown motor. Also, with the $700 forged cranks out now, you can save about $1,500 or more over a premium billet too.

Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org

"Real Pontiacs only...no corporate nonsense!"

Thanks guys, I am right there in the ballpark to what I paid. I was just curious to see what you other guys had paid to get around the same horsepower out of a NA motor. I kinda wish I would have went Turbocharged but this motor should still be more than enough. Wish the car was gonna be done for Norwalk. Plus the motor is setup/clearanced to run a 300 shot of NOS on it. That makes me smile.

Do you have the 20k to sink into the car to use that kind of power? One friend of mine has a chevy with a 632 BB in it making 1100 hp, and my other friend with 400 CFM heads that I did on his 540 BB chevy making 800 HP and is nibbling on his bumper at the end of the 1/4 mile. That extra 300 HP cost ALOT more!

Yep, then you need a $30K plus car to use it in.

not always! see my sig below. i have way less than 15,000 in the rest of the car including the trans,rearend, and electronics. and i think it performs pretty well for a 3100lb car on true 10.5s.

Ok, 15-30k car.
Most probly have 15-25 depending on what they had to start with, and what class thier running in.
Some have 70-150 in the car/chassis.

I had to resist pen and paper.... somethings are best left a low estimate.....
But i like to do things the hard way. 600 800 1000 hp build it three times...LOL
still on the middle one but already fabbing a 200 nos plate in the mix. And rounding up parts for a PG. next the axles and spool will be to small. I can only imagine what my non car friends think... But I'm guessing those are pretty close on the numbers. depending on how much you can do yourself. Just a IA II short Block with pretty good stuff is almost 9. Plus heads intake Carb Cam. I thought that I could build one cheaper than the going rate... but you add it up.... Man I'm gonna have to take up some other vise to make me feel better about this one. LOL
John

i dont see wy you couldnt do it for 15k myself if you did go the blower route like stev said iam planning to try get into that range for a 67 tempest on my other motor after i get done with the car iam working on now. i spent close to 8k jst to shoot fr 500 hp and now that its been built ive been looking at all the parts i couldve bought and some of the parts i might not have had to buy and think 15 would have done it but i guess 500 was enugh for my first attempt

Heads - 8k with titanium valves, springs, seats, guides, head bolts and shaft bars (that is being conservative)
intake - 4k with 2 dominators (box stock no tricks)
block - 4k machined
crank - 2.5k
rods, pistons, pins, rings and bearings - $2k
oil pan, oil pump, vacuum pump & valve covers - $1.5k
belt drive, water pump, crank trigger and balancer - $1.75k
cam, lifters and push rods - $1.3k
flex plate and starter - $.4k
dist, plugs, wires, cap, rotor - $.2k
oil and remote oil filter - $.1k
head and valve cover gaskets - $.2k
custom headers - $2.5k
misc shipping - $.5k
dyno - $.5k
Grand Total - $29,450.00

Cant see it much lower with a blower, or any type of power adder.
Still need top shelf parts and machine work to make it last.
No cheap way around it.
And a drive train/chassis to handle it.

15k for just motor and iam sure it could easily go a little over just the same a my 455 did, i wasnt thinking it was gonna costbut 4 -5 k when i started and before i knew it i was at the 8 and that was on the stand! i didnt even wnna think about the little stuf i still needed to put it in the car acces and stuff

that's a great itemized list, but i think you could cut a few things and still end up with 1000na horsepower.
you wouldn't necessarily need a belt drive.
a single carb with a well done cast manifold would get the job done.
everything else looks pretty close except for the heads, you may be a little low there depending on what you start with and who works on them.

Thanx John for the breakdown...I am sitting a few thousand below your total but still in the ballpark...wish this motor was going in the 79 bird(bruces old car) but its going in my 68 Bird(backhalf car, cert to 7.50) I will be running on 33/10.5Ws and a glide. It would have been nice to see both our cars run NA headsup on the same track. Thanks for all the replies...these Ponchos will break ya. I was gonna break my buddy when he said why not just build a chebbie.

To my knowledge there have only been 2 motors that made over 1,000 hp with a single 4 on a cast intake. Both of those intakes were ported by the same individual and cost in the ball park of 2k to port. Additionally, to achieve 1,000 hp, both of those motors required customized carbs that cost in the neighborhood of 1.5k-2k. I know I was being conservative with the heads.

Building any brand engine in the 540 cube range to the 1000hp NA is going to cost about the same in the long run. SBC to not even near that level, even more (and you would need 2 or 3 to get thru the season). A roots blower might be less but would still need very good heads, a turbo setup would make way more than 1000 hp for same money(as 540) with less cubes and less head work.

Were does this guy hang--Street legal 79 T/A -No Nitrous--537 cu inch-950 hp 7200 rpm Tiger heads--IA II Aluminum block.

John's list:
Heads - 8k with titanium valves, springs, seats, guides, head bolts and shaft bars (that is being conservative)

(Substitute E-heads at 300 cfm for 3K and Vortech Ysi blower for 3K Total = 6K Savings = 2K

John's Intake - 4k with 2 dominators (box stock no tricks)

Substitute Victor/ 1050 Dominator (blow thru carb) and
dominator bonnet $1500.00 Savings = 2.5K

block - 4k machined

crank - 2.5k (With less rpm a 1K Forging will work)
Saving 1.5K

rods, pistons, pins, rings and bearings - $2k
oil pan, oil pump, vacuum pump & valve covers - $1.5k
Supercharger Cog belt drive, water pump, crank trigger and balancer - $1.75k
cam, lifters and push rods - $1.3k
flex plate and starter - $.4k
dist, plugs, wires, cap, rotor - $.2k
oil and remote oil filter - $.1k
head and valve cover gaskets - $.2k
custom headers - $2.5k

Possibly 1K headers saving 1.5K
misc shipping - $.5k
dyno - $.5k
Grand Total - $29,450.00

Total savings 7.5K plus less maint due to lower rpm of the blower engine. Engine = roughly 22K

Tom V.

Lots of SB Ford Renegade racers making 1100 hp in that class.

A SSRE, Reher-Morrison, Musi etc. big block Chevy motor making over 1,000 HP with all aftermaket stuff is still going to cost well in excess of $20K. Probably more like $25K all said and done. A buddy bought a SSRE motor in one of his ads. By the time all the "hidden" fees were added, it was a lot more than the ad.

Not to get off subject, but what would keep "as cast" Tiger's from supporting 1000hp NA? With a sheetmetal intake, two dominators, GOOD headers, and lots of compression. You can get them ready to go for $5,650. What am I missing?

Just a little FYI
My 555 conventional headed Huntsville Engine motor made just 900 for 17k and some change. but thats with every option except the big chief upgrade and billet crank. Base package 555 is 13 grand.

Dart Block
Brodix BB3X CNC heads
Brodix/Sonnys intake 4bbl
SRP Pistons
Jesel Shafts and Belt drive
Oliver Billet Rods
comp 7/4 swap roller
Lunati Pro Series crank
aerospace vacuum pump
crank trigger
csr pump and starter.

Was told it would be about 3 grand extra to use big chiefs/big dukes

I dont know.........but that door bar doesnt look NHRA legal.

My buddy had BES build him a 638 bbc. It made 1075 hp and cost right around 14k out the door, dyno tested. Be careful about the ssre, rm and schmidt engine horsepower claims, I have seen them down approx 60+ claimed hp.

A friend of ours bought a Shaffirof "BIG DUKE" 555 carb to pan for $14,500.00, with a consevative tune (too much jet/low timing till after a few runs) made 1006 HP on gas! It ran 9.20's in 3200 lb Monte SS. Started to do some tuning to carb and inch timing up and got an 8.91 out of it in bad air. Would have made more HP on alky with the 14:1 compression. He sold the whole motor for $9,000.00. Ahh someone has 1000+ HP for under $10,000.00 Thanks D. Miles

Last year I went 8.61 with 975hp weighing 3200 lbs.

the way its been explained to me a they can pretty much make the dyno sheet say whatever they want by manipulating the load and a few other factors. my 898 hp 555 ran within 7 hundredths of my buddys big chief 598 from shafiroff that supposedly makes 1120 in the SAME car. I know Todd Ewing from Huntsville Engine told me that they but a massive load on my motor, which explains the low number. Its a real world 898 hp. He said if i thought i needed a dyno sheet with a big number he could set it up, but really all its good for sitting around bragging with your buddies.

I think it will take heads with intake flow approx 480 cfm@ 28 inches h2o to get 1000 hp. Yes/No? I think I did my math right!

no.

another vote for no, I made 991 with a single 4 intake, 525 cid and heads that flowed 380 @ 28". (2) 4's on a tunnel ram would have made 1,000.

It goes back to a properly shaped port is more important than big flow#

I used the formula in Jim hands book for estimating airflow required for horsepower. It seems to work with lesser motors. Guess I can throw that out the door. I didnt think we were there yet on head flow #s(485) Thanks

John I checked the formula last night! I did the correct math and came to the conclusion that the formula doesnt have a VE factor or air correction factor. The formula predicts you at 790 lol. It obviously doent account for any sonic "tuning" effects in the intake and exhaust scavenging/ tuning.

Formula cfm@28"H20 x .26 x # of cylinders = HP estimated. The question remaining in my head is if the formula is perhaps correct, are your 380cfm heads actually getting 476 thru them in actual operation vs the flow bench ? Think I'm going to have to look up some of my other airflow data to see if whats published in Jims book is totally wrong or if it is just the minimum expected at Jims RPM levels. All input appreciated!

you cant race math formulas.

"you cant race math formulas" you wont get an argument from me on that for sure John. Nothing like the real world but sometimes we like to see the #s too.

I've often said at work "I dont care what the book says, this is what works" and it certainly applies to racin.

A chevy, but an intresting article. I doubt that will last long.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...est/index.html

John, what was your best MPH with the wensler2 heads? weight? for 477cid vrs 525?

just for kicks,what does 150MPH in a 3250 lb car show for RWHP?Tom

477 - 8.82 @ 154 mph weighing 3175
525 - 8.61 @ 155 mph weighing 3250 (-700' da, freaking mine shaft)

John,

What was the da for the 477CID best so we can properly compare the two numbers?

Lynn

Average Rear Wheel HP or peak Rear Wheel HP? What chassis efficiency? What air? (California Dreamin or John Langer east coast Mine Shaft air?)

Just messin' with you Tom! (Got tired of working on the SSer and was taking a break) ;):):)

Our RA-V 69 TA made around 860HP(440 cu in) and went almost 147MPH (3500lbs w/driver). About 10 years afterwards I took the tires and wheels off and weighed them when I got the new SS wheels and tires. The SSer total weight for a 14.5 X 33's including 14 inch Monocoques was 42lbs. The old centerlines with slicks were 65lbs. With all the drive train technology of today that car would be well over 150MPH. I will admit that the Doug Nash 5spd helped a bunch.

Lynn

3250lbs/150mph 840hp on morroso power speed calculator #89650

My new Procharged street motor will get close (mid 900's). Simply running better gas and upping the boost a little would easily get me there. I figure ~29K. Flywheel to balancer, oil pan to throttle body. Procharger with drive, mount, intercooler and plumbing. All good parts. IA-2, billet crank, EFI, etc. With some parts swaps, you could do it for under 25 easily (boosted).

I have over $14k of parts sitting in the garage at the moment in pursuit of 1k hp turbocharged. Maybe someday i'll have what I need to finish it (about another $8k). Money is tight right now :)

8.82, da was 300'

Motor Daddy thinks you can.;)