Dip stick tube
 

I was out putting my motor together today and I noticed that the dip stick tube goes down into the block and there is a hole in the windage tray that looks like the dip stick should go through it. My dumb question of the day is...Is there a lower tube that guides the dip stick through the windage tray. I think I already know the answer, but if anyone has any pictures of this tube, or know where I can get one, please HELP!!

Yes, there is. It is about 4 inches long and slightly curved with about a 4or5 inch arm spotwelded about half way along the curve. This arme bolts to the #3 main cap. If you look at the main cap you will see two small threaded holes. Sorry I dont have any photos, perhaps someone else will post a photo.

There are two lower tubes. One for use with a windage tray. It wedges into the opening in the block and a hole in the windage tray. The other is for motors without windage trays. It also wedges into the opening in the block, but bolts to a main cap. Then there is the main dip stick tube. It must be installed from the inside out, then the lower tube is inserted into it. Finally, if you have A/C, there will be an extension tube that inserts into the main tube and mounts to the A/C compressor bracket. There are only two different dip sticks. One for A/C cars, the other for non-A/C cars.

This should be a sticky.

These are available from our host here at PY.

http://216.178.81.107/images/GME157.jpg

Item: GME157 Description: 67-79 DIP STICK TUBE
PRESS FIT FROM INSIDE BLOCK. PROTRUDES OUT. USE GME157C FOR EXTENSION. FITS ALL 67-79 PONTIAC V8'S
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http://216.178.81.107/images/gme157a.jpg

Item: GME157A Description: 69-79 TUBE- DIPSTICK (BOTTOM)
USED ON MOTORS W/O WINDAGE TRAY. GOES INSIDE THE OIL PAN. Technically only for 1972-1979 but will work on 1965-1968. For correct 1965-68 use GME157R
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http://216.178.81.107/images/gme157b.jpg

Item: GME157B Description: 67-79 TUBE- BOTTOM W/O BRKT
USED ON MOTORS WITH WINDAGE TRAYS. presses into the inside of the block and runs through the windage tray. This part is now an excellent stainless steel repro at a better price.
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http://216.178.81.107/images/gme157c.jpg

Item: GME157C Description: TUBE-DIP STICK UPPER W/AC
This upper tube requires sanding and a little grinding to fit in GME157. Fits 1970 AND LATER V8 EXCEPT RAM AIR OR 455 HO, MIGHT WORK ON 68, 69 ?? HAS BRACKET THAT ATTACHES TO FRONT COMPRESSOR.
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http://216.178.81.107/images/gme158.jpg

Item: GME158 Description: 67-78 DIP STICK- W/AC
WILL WORK ON ALL PONTIAC V8 BUT NOT CORRECT FOR EARLIER CARS
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Item: GME159 Description: 67-78 DIP STICK W/O AC
WILL WORK ON ALL PONTIAC V-8 BUT NOT CORRECT FOR EARLIER CARS


This should cover what you are looking for. If you need any more info, you should call the order line from our host here at PY at 1-800-542-PART(7278). They will be able to answer your questions and get you set up with exactly what you need.

Yes, this needs to be a sticky. I'll be changing from AC to non-AC with a windage tray.
cm

Wow! Great info. Thanks alot. The fact that the lower tube was missing accounts for some of the problems this motor had when I got it. When I started taking it apart there was well over 2 gallons of fluid in the oil pan, but nothing showed on the dipstick. I'm sure the dipstick was curling up in the top of the windage tray. Thanks again!

Item: GME157B Description: 67-79 TUBE- BOTTOM W/O BRKT
USED ON MOTORS WITH WINDAGE TRAYS. presses into the inside of the block and runs through the windage tray. This part is now an excellent stainless steel repro at a better price.
__________________________________________________
So this part fits in the block and guides the dipstick through the windage tray? What fits on or over this to hold the dipstick outside the block on a non a/c car?
thx

http://216.178.81.107/images/GME157.jpg

Item: GME157 Description: 67-79 DIP STICK TUBE
PRESS FIT FROM INSIDE BLOCK. PROTRUDES OUT. USE GME157C FOR EXTENSION. FITS ALL 67-79 PONTIAC V8'S

This is the part that you're talking about. It goes into the block from the inside, first. It protrudes outside the block and the dipstick goes into it. The curved piece goes through the windage tray and inserts into it on the inside of the block. If you have A/C there is an extension tube shown in my post above that goes on top of this tube and mounts to the A/C compressor bracket.

It protrudes outside the block and the dipstick goes into it. The curved piece goes through the windage tray and inserts into it on the inside of the block.

This statement is my concern. I have a recently rebuilt block and the lower dipstick is recessed about a half an inch in the block. I have been able to make a tube work but I had to do the fill the pan with known qty of oil and mark the dipstick. Could there be a problem with too much tube in the windage tray? What do you think might have happened during assembly?

thx

Redta,

Most of the time if you do not have the lower dip stick tube installed, the rotating assembly breaks off the lower portion of the dip stick. Ask me how I know this!

Great thread, lots of useful info here. I'm still confused about how to install my dipstick tube pieces, however. Hopefully you can help with the myriad questions below:

I have GME157 (upper) and GME157B (lower) for use on a non-A/C 400 with windage tray. I got these pieces from KRE, but they look identical to your pictures.

On my upper tube, the expanded part of the tube (at the very top) appears to be far too large to fit through the hole in the block. Is this tube necessarily supposed to be inserted from the inside of the block? Should it have been done before I put the main caps on?

I installed the lower tube into the hole in the windage tray, so that the kink in the tube is between the block and the windage tray. Is this correct? In this position, the lower tube is about half-way into the hole in the block, leaving half of the hole for the upper tube.

Also...

The bottom part of my upper tube, and the top part of my lower tube, are exactly the same size. Am I missing something?

I will likely attach pics soon to show you what I am seeing.

The expanded part of the upper tube is not the top of the tube where the dipstick rests, but rather, the expanded part of the upper tube is what friction fits into the hole in the block. You insert the smaller end of the upper tube into the block from the inside until the expanded part gets to the hole. It will then wedge into the hole in the block.

You have to make sure that the bend in the upper tube is oriented correctly so as to not interfere with your manifolds or headers. Once the upper tube is installed in the hole in the block, the lower tube will insert into it. I'm not exactly sure how the lower tubes for use with a windage tray mount, as I've only installed the type of lower tube that bolts to the main cap. I've heard that the type used with windage trays can fall out, but I'm not sure about that.

Maybe someone with experience with those will chime in. Also, I thought I read somewhere that the type for use without windage trays can be modified for use with a windage tray so that it can be better secured by mounting it to the main cap. Again, I'm not sure about that. I'm sure that someone will chime in with some experience on that.

Oh, I see now, thanks... I'll give that a shot then, installing from the inside of the block. Guess I should have done this before the main caps went on - doh!

About the lower tube - I'm actually not worried about it falling out. It looks like the kink in the tube is just a little too big to let the tube fall out through the hole in the windage tray. Image attached.

Attachment 123606

For the record, that worked perfectly. It took a little convincing (read: hammer) because my main studs were getting in the way, but it's all put together now. Thanks!

Attachment 123668

My pleasure! I'm glad I could help and that everything worked out. Nice looking setup, BTW. What's with that custom header? Turbo?

Yes sir, that's a turbo manifold made by Paul Johnson of turbopontiacs.com, who's on this forum as 455Turbo. He did a great job with them, if you ask me.

Here's sort of a mockup of how the turbo will go on...

Attachment 123704

TransAMrit,
That's a sweet setup! Which KRE heads do you have there? I'm running the 85cc D-ports on mine. I had them ported locally to flow 300cfm. I've always been interested in turbos, but I don't know enough about forcing that kind of air through a carb.

Thanks Redta! I'm also using the KRE 85cc D-port heads. I wanted to look into the high port heads, but at the time I ordered them, they did not have the large CC high ports (only 56cc or so). They're not ported at all, as it's supposed to not be as much of an issue when you're forcing air through them.

If you're interested in turbos, pick up Maximum Boost, by Corky Bell. It's incredibly informative about turbos and anything related to them. He has a chapter on turbocharging w/ carburetors, and another about turbocharging w/ EFI. I'll be going the latter route, with a Super Victor EFI manifold & MegaSquirt.

At last! someone who knows: please help me too.

My TA 400 had to be rebuilt in 2004. Among the many goofs I found once I got it back from the shop was the dipstick and tube no longer fit correctly. Its got AC and when I gave them the car it all fit. When I got it back the upper tube would not reach all way up to the AC bracket to attach (too short). The shop's solution was to use a 2" bolt through a ~1" bit of tubing to hold the upper tube in place. The bolt is installed through the AC bracket at the correct place, extends down towards the dipstick mount. The tube spacer is in between the dipstick mount and the underside of the AC bracket.

Shop claimed they re-used my original dipstick, but it reads correct oil levels despite the lower mounting position. The shop supplied the replacement 400 cylinder block. Could they have put on a non-AC upper tube and dipstick ?

Eric

I'd be glad to help if I can. Please post a pic, if possible, so I can see exactly what you're talking about.

Thanks, will do. Car is in the body shop due to a not-my-fault accident before christmas so I dont have access to it at the moment. It went into the paint booth today so I may be able to get a shot in the morning. Here it is with the prepped replacement fender.

Thanks,

Eric

Here is the picture showing the dipstick tube attached 1" to 1.5" below the AC bracket.
Not obvious in the picture is that the dip tube bracket is bent upward towards the AC bracket (They obviously tried to make it fit, before rigging it up as seen)

Can you see how far the tube that inserts from the inside of the block is sticking out (GME157)? Did they forget to install the intermediate tube and instead stuck the A/C extension tube directly into the block?

I cant get to the car, its back in the booth for base coat. Let you know when I can.

Thanks for your patients,

Eric

Sorry its taken me so long to get back with the tube configuration.
I finally was able to get under the hood this morning while the body shop had the hood open sanding the clear coat.

There is a intermediate tube (GME157?) extending out of the block. The upper tube (GME157C) is inserted into the intermediate tube but as seen in photo does not reach to compressor bracket. :(

Eric

Picture from another angle.

If the upper tube pressed into the block was not inserted completely or put in at a wrong angle, the upper AC tube will not be in the correct position to attach to the bracket. there is only that one style of AC tube and dipstick, so I doubt they changed that for some other one. So it looks to me like the tube pressed into the block was not done correctly. On mine, I fit up everything before I put the pan on to be sure the angles and heights were correct. Also to check stick does not contact any moving parts in the block. Once closed up, there is no way to easily check if indeed the stick shows the correct level. mine is 6 quart stick while the 5 quart stick is almost the same mark and is the same overall length. So if the tube is not angled correctly, the mark will be off. At this point, guess you can drain all the oil and refill with correct amount and see if stick shows full mark.

That is very strange. Did they modify or shorten the intermediate tube? How far up the block does the intermediate tube extend? The intermediate tube is 9" long, with about 1.5" of that retained in the block. It should extend up to just past the exhaust manifold. This isn't the greatest photo, but it shows the location of the dip stick. Like engineer stated, if they installed it at the wrong angle it won't locate the upper A/C tube in the right place. Unfortunately, there is no way to fix it without dropping th oil pan.

Last oil and filter change with 6 quarts puts the level halfway between the add and full marks on the dipstick. How can I tell the difference between a 5 qt and a 6 qt dipstick?


Its a long story but, gist of it is shop that built the engine went out of business just after I got my car back (I was lucky to get it at all). They made over 30 assembly goofs that I have been slowly correcting. This dipstick thing is just one.

When I get the car back from the body shop (this week?) I will take some carefull measurements of the tube sticking out of the block. One thing I can tell you is there
is a small kink in the tube where it enters the block as though they tried to bend the tube upward. Possibly they were trying to make it all fit.

I want to thank you guys for helping me with this, and I am sorry I am not able to provide the info quickly.

Eric

For the record, that worked perfectly. It took a little convincing (read: hammer) because my main studs were getting in the way, but it's all put together now.

Thanks TransAMrit for the picture. I finally have an understanding how all the pieces go together. The upper dipstick tube has to installed before the pan goes on. Oh well, to late for me.