Electric Fuel Pump Install Pic's.......
 

Those of you that frequent these pages might know that I've been having issues getting enough fuel to the carb during my infrequent trips to the drag strip. Maybe you didn't know that. Now you do. Anyway.....

After some soul searching and after having an actual idea, I decided I would install an electric fuel pump and a better filter. I decided on a Carter P4070 for the pump because it seemed like to me that 72gph would be more than enough and I went with the Fram HPG-1 because it was capable of filtering more fuel than my engine could use and waaaaay more than the inline canister filter I was using.

My idea was on how to mount everything. I didn't really want to drill any holes in the car to make this work. While rolled up under the car one evening it came to me. Mount a piece of angle (aluminum) from tank strap bolt to tank strap bolt and put everything on that. If it will fit. I turned to Google and after a little searching came back with the exact measurements of both the Carter and the Fram filter. Mocking up a piece of angle and doing a little further measuring confirmed that both pieces would fit. I used a piece of 1" X 1" aluminum angle, .125" thick. I settled on 22" long. I put the Carter on the passenger side and the Fram on the driver. Fuel comes out of the tank pickup line, turns and goes under the Fram, straight through it and straight to the Carter, out of the Carter and under it and straight up the original fuel line. Maybe 3 to 3.5 feet of additional fuel line were added? The differential slides neatly up in between the fuel system parts with room to spare.

And you can't see any of it unless you are laying on the ground.

David !! That looks AWESOME!!!! NICE JOB!!

David,
Looks Awesome!!
How much did it cost for the set up? Did you wire up direct with the key? Can you hear it inside the car??
Sorry for all of the questions.. I'm planning on adding an electric pump to my 71 and I'll be using your install as a reference...
Can't wait to see how your car does at the track!!

David get a different filter, that is one of the least flowing units around.
Otherwise nice job.

sound?

Very clever. Necessity is indeed the mother of invention.
Jim

Fram HPG-1 supposedly is supposedly capable of flowing 90gph. Assuming it does half that it will still flow more than my engine can use at WOT.

How much do I need?

I can hear the electric pump as the car is cranking and then it goes away. Not because the engine is loud, more like you took the load off. I really haven't had much time to evaluate the whole deal though. I ordered the 1st mechanical pump and it turned out to be bad. So I put my stock mechanical pump on and ran the car once with it and the electric pump. Then the replacement M6122 mechanical pump came in and I just put it on. It's bad also!!!!! This one leaks like a sieve at the joint. Cascades of gas out the side. So I ordered another brand (Bosch) and won't get it until Tuesday. It doesn't seem to loud, but I want to have time to see what it does with the latest mechanical pump and its return etc. I like to lay under the car and see what, if anything might be vibrating, what I could rubber mount.

Holeshot, the electric pump was $71 and the filter was $34, the aluminum angle was $6 the relay was $20 and I needed a little extra wire for a few dollars. A couple of fittings for $6. Some wire ties. I'm sure any pump or filter would work with some slight changes.

86 the mechnical pump.
 

These suckers are killer and last.
I will take some pics. of my home made isolator setup Sunday and post late afternoon, it works great .
http://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/752943/10002/-1/10307

We used to mount them like that on the Firebirds but instead of the tank straps we used the mounting points for the old crossflow mufflers.

It is a nice neat installation the way you have it rather than others I see hanging down behind the rear bumper begging for something to hit it!

Those Fram canister style filters are restrictive. I question the validity the Frams flow 90 gph, here's what I found. My car was having a lean popping out the exhaust in 3rd gear at the track. I tried many different suggestions to track down the cause. As a last ditch effort to find the problem, I removed the filter element from the Canister and ran it without a pre-filter to see what happened. Holy moly, it dropped .10 and picked up 2.51 MPH on the first run!:eek: :eek: :eek: Did I mention all signs of the lean popping was gone?

Yes, your engine will need more than 45 gph capacity to operate effectively. It's easily researched, do a search and read the many many posts/threads discussing the required pump/line capacities required for performance. The 72 gph you posted will be marginal fighting against g-forces during a timed acceleration test, if the filter doesn't hurt the situation. I was running a Mallory Comp 110 which yields 90 gph @ 7.0 psi and the Fram was a restriction of the suction side of the fuel system.

The installation looks good but I'm concerned you haven't corrected your fuel delivery issue. IMHO JD

show off :rolleyes:

Guys, I appreciate your opinions and judging by your cars you have way more experience with drag racing than I do. But I don't think you're comparing apples to apples here.

The calculations I went by (for a 400 hp engine) put the fuel requirements at just less than 30gph @ WOT. Factor in acceleration forces generated by my engine in concert with my 255/60-15 Radial T/A's and 3.55 gears and I think my 72gph pump and 90gph filter will be more than enough unless I have a restriction somewhere in my stock fuel line.

I'll know for sure in a few weeks.

KS Circuitguy, I'd love to see pictures of your setup.

Carter elec pumps, best there are. Quiet, run forever. I'd like a dollar for every car running some exotic, billet, mega$ alum 250GPH elec pump, when a 72 or 100 gph Carter would do the job.

Border line genious! I love it!!!

I never run a filter on the suction side.....any increase in suction head will DECREASE flow dramatically.....In my mind the suction side is the most critical part of a fuel system....I only use filters on the discharge side.......the maunufacturer will tell you to run a pre-filter to protect his warranty....in a perfect world you could....but

..most of us are also mounting the pump above or midline to the tank when they should be mounted BELOW the tank to minimize suction head loss......so right out of the box we are decreasing flow by increasing suction head...no easy way

I am close to sumping my tank and adding one of those ROBMC 1/2 pickups.....this should minimize suction head loss and hopefully keep the fuel flowing!!!


good luck...post the results!

here are a couple David
 

http://coolcars.smugmug.com/photos/2...9_rYsFG-Th.jpg
Rubber mount the pump bracket with strips like this.
http://coolcars.smugmug.com/photos/2...1_yWdpw-Th.jpg
http://coolcars.smugmug.com/photos/2...31_yWdpw-L.jpg
http://coolcars.smugmug.com/photos/2...19_rYsFG-L.jpg

More Pics.
 

The pump now mounts inside the bumper with 2 threw bolts.
Like this;
http://coolcars.smugmug.com/photos/2...48_ZkAoD-L.jpg
No where near as noisy as a solid mounted pump.
BTW; The Edelbrock pump is the next one I will buy.
My Aeromotive has lasted 5yrs. of street - strip duty and a nice product with great service-support.
I have to send mine in for them to OH it cause the shaft seal is dripping, $80.00 for them to do it is fine by me.

David, just my thoughts, i still fill you are still going to have problems until you sump that tank and move everything right behind the bumper, Cliff Ruggles gave me some idea,s about sumping the tank, works absolutely perfect, remember when the car takes off ,all the fuel heads towards the back of the car so sumping the tank with 2 outlets really gets the fuel to the carb. bare none!!

^^^^
That he said!

This was the easiest placer to mount mine that was below and near the tank. Yea its gets dirty but I don't care cause dirt doesn't affect performance of it. I'm putting a different pump in same place but forming a alum plate around it to keep muffler heat off it and to channel cooler air to it from the front along the frame rail.

I might look under there when replacing it and see if I can drop a bracket way down in front of the tank so the pump is at bottom of tank level but closer but for 25 years I never had any fuel pressure problems mounted where it is now.

There is a guy on here that runs 13 flat with a Grandville. 4600lbs of gravity. He runs 3/8 fuel line thru a Carter 72gph electric pump to a Carter mechanical pump into a quadrajet. Feeds a 455. 60fts @ 1.85.

I think I can do this without sumping the tank or buying a more expensive pump. I believe the filter will work fine in my application. I may need to run with a full tank, hey....it'll help with the traction.

FWIW......I ran a carter mech. without a pusher into the low 12's with my 455......decided it needed more fuel and ran a little 30.00 Napa electric pusher, to the carter mech....no difference...decided to try a little better pusher so I am running a carter elec. 100gph to the carter mech......no difference....this is thru stock 3/8 lines with NO pre filters...car runs 12 flat on a good day....flattens out on the top end...still needs more fuel ???.....who knows......see the 60' below

you should have no problem running just a good mech. pump....

i think you should have plenty of fuel

to remove any doubt just rig a temp pressure gage connected at the carb and
so you can watch it at wot and see if it drops

Dave ,you did such a nice job setting everything up, just dont leave that red wire next to those threads on the bolt. See your first pic. I have seen wires fray next to smoother objects over time... joe

[QUOTE=David Jones]There is a guy on here that runs 13 flat with a Grandville. 4600lbs of gravity. He runs 3/8 fuel line thru a Carter 72gph electric pump to a Carter mechanical pump into a quadrajet. Feeds a 455. 60fts @ 1.85.

Wow that is fast....wonder who it is :D... correction tho David now its 1.78!!... I think you will be fine with what u are doing I really think for what you are trying to do you dont need a sump!..

Joe, I plan to do that. That's the ground wire. I think I'll lengthen it and run it up to where the sending unit is grounded.

Just finished mounting and plumbing my new Holley HP125 black pump right in front of the gas tank. Perfect place for it and pickup is at bottom of tank level as well. This gerotor style pump is absolutely quiet. I cant even hear it with the car off which is a huge difference with the old noisy as hell Holley blue pump I had on before..

Looks good, thats where my pump is mounted. At one time, I added a wimpy carter 72GPM (p/n 4389) pump and filter to my stock system and it made no difference at the strip, it might have actually made things worse.. The only thing it was good for is when the car sat for a while, it would fill up the carb so I didnt have to crank on it for so long. After making that change , I ran earls super stock an-8 line the whole way to the carb with a return reg and 1/2" tank pickup and 3/8" return with a mallory 140 pump and canister filter. Same problem again although it only happens when I have less than 1/2 tank of gas. I'm now pulling the tank to sump within the next few weeks which will put the nail in the coffin for good. Ask Cliff for some advice on this, he will tell you the same story.... He went through the exact same pain. Of course, there are guys out there running as fast as 12's with 3/8" fuel line and stock pump but that does not mean that it will work in every application. For every 1 that works, there are 10 that dont... It sure didnt work in my '68... I hope that your story is different but I'm doubting it. There are tons of posts in the archives about this. Where's the pressure regulator? That qjet isnt gonna be happy with more than about 3-4psi. That carter is probably gonna bump your fuel pressure up around 6-8 psi or so...I run mine at 3.5....Good luck, this will likely not be a fun battle! Personally, I think a robbmc 550 mech pump may do more good than the elec pump setup...

My '64 tempest has an all stock fuel system with AC pump and a healthy 400 4spd. Its not as strong as the 455 in my '68, but I havent had a hint of a fuel starvation problem in it yet... Go figure.

Ive raced as low as a 1/4 tank in my car it has the stock lines still. I added the carter elec to push to the carter mech. with a filter inline before the reg then going into a holley reg then to the q-jet set at 6.5 psi and my car hasn't fell on its face once....FWIW

I've run the Carter electric, Holley Blue & Red, aeromotive SS, and the Mallory, and nothing is as quiet as the Holley HP I just recently installed, fyi. It's so queit, you don't need to insulate it, and it's tough to even tell it's running. No kidding.

Clean installs guys, and this is one of the things I like best about this forum, many share photos & ideas, it really is becoming a historical reference!

I've driven the car 2 or 3 hundred miles with the new pump setup and have experienced no pressure related issues. At this time I haven't been able to get the car up to the strip to see if this "wimpy" Carter electrical has made any difference. I think it will.

lol briann..it looks like you only have like 2 inches of ground clearance.

David, when you do make a strip pass.
Have a pressure gauge hooked up to the thing to see the drop.
You'll be very surprised at what happens.

I believe my lowest point is 1.5" which is the bottom of my subframe connectors and traction bar front section. My fuel pump is well protected and would never hit anything as its still above lowest part of the car.

I can imagine a pressure drop. That would make sense.