KRE's claim to hp
 

Can I sue KRE for claiming to have the highest hp per cid head when that is not true? Seems like more false advertising to me. My single 4, cast intake 523" motor (4.350 bore x 4.400 stroke) made 1117hp, which is 2.135 hp/cid. I think my B.S. meter is pegged.

I would sue them big time. Let's do a class action? It looks like a lack of integrity and credibility across the board. From exagerated flow numbers on their heads to not making good on porosity problems with their heads and not standing behind their butter blocks. Consumer beware.

But what motor are they basing the claim from?
The dragsters, Mellots?

I dunno. Never know though until you try.

Now someone could probably sue PDude for selling 700 HP engines and they're only 550 HP.

:D

OK Johnta1 if we're going to go into things like that area , what about heads sold as a specific cfm that don't flow that on any other bench?

Pontiac Enthusiast magazine is still taking their money. From their most recent advertisement.... "Kauffman cylinder heads are the most efficient cylinder heads in the Pontiac market!!! Highest horsepower production per cfm, combustion chambers & port sizes make our heads the most versattile for all applications."

On the same page near the bottom it features a motor, but no specific connection mentioned to that ad material. About this motor it say 1025+ HP, 540 cid, HP 400 shaft heads, MR-1 block, Dual Dominators, Vac. pump, race gas.

?
 

People need to get a life!

Sounds to me, the right way to settle this one is on a Dyno.
"Pontiac Engine Masters Challenge 08" at Westech in California.

Pontiac Engine Builders bring your game baby !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that would be great!! get all the top pontiac engine builders to build the baddest engine they can and compete against each other, NA, 541cid limit, 3000-7500 rpm range make it race gas 110oct, single 4 bbl, that would show who's really got the stuff! and who thinks they do!!!

Unfortunately, in the world we live in one is only as good as his/her last mistake.

It is refreshing to see that there are so many others in the Pontiac community who have led perfect, trouble-free and mistake-free lives. These perfect individuals generously donate their time to constantly rehash the same mistakes by others over and over and over and over.............

They all make mistakes, the good ones make them right

Quote:

"They all make mistakes, the good ones make them right"

Ouch! That one should draw some blood, 440GP69. (And maybe a law suit.) Careful there guy.

Quote:

"Can I sue KRE for claiming to have the highest hp per cid head when that is not true? Seems like more false advertising to me. My single 4, cast intake 523" motor (4.350 bore x 4.400 stroke) made 1117hp, which is 2.135 hp/cid."

If you feel "Froggy", jump John. You have the data to back up your claim. Aren't you running ONE CARBURETOR????

Quote on KRE Engine: "1025+ HP, 540 cid, HP 400 shaft heads, MR-1 block, DUAL DOMINATORS,"

Interesting. More Power with Less Carburation.

Tom V.

Well, I have the 540 KRE advertised motor to the T...just got it in my dads car over the weekend...Im not gonna say best bang for the buck but if it makes it down the track and throws a number close to what Im hoping with the horsepower the dyno sheets say...then Im a happy camper. False advertising is a pisser but maybe there comparison basis may be w a certain spec'd combo...I'm not bashing anyone but we are in this hobby for the love of our 'expensive' Pontiacs and we should be happy there's an aftermarket full of parts for our buildups. Pick or choose who you like and buy from them if you put your confidence in there product.

well as long as we are all human we will make mistakes thats just life, it was in context of what i was responding too.

base it on horsepower per cubic inch.

Langer is making 1173 on a 523 cid engine or 2.2428 hp/cid

KRE is making 1025 on a 540 cid engine or 1.8981 hp/cid

Looks like Langer has them covered and using only one carb too.

Tom V.

Well I guess I'm no match for either these guys as I only have 1.6092 HP per CI in my current motor.:bolt:

Oh Man!!!!!! you guys got this deal all out of whack. There's no limitations for the Pontiac Engine Masters Challenge except it has to be based on the original Pontiac design. No Corporate Nonsense as Steve would say. It's run whatcha brung. Well OK, a few rules: Your choice, mix and match.
Race Gas
Alky
Nitro
N/A
Injected
NOs
Turbo
Supercharger
Any factory or aftermarket Pontiac block- iron or aluminum for instance (MR, IA, Butler)
Any cubic inch goes
Any aftermarket Pontiac head for instance (HP's, Tigers, CV-1, Edelbrocks) No billet 1 offs

WOW I could care less about who has the most power. If you have the most money you can have anything.

Scott Rex:
517 cu in Wenzler/IA1 1075HP= 2.08
565 cu in Tiger/IA2 1170HP= 2.07

http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/8531.jpg
Seriously though...I like the advertisement on Tin Indian's website better:

"Home of the quickest/fastest N/A Pontiac forged crankshaft!"

I would guess this is designed to sell more forged crankshafts...otherwise why would anyone care? You could substitute just about anything for "forged crankshaft".

"The worlds FASTEST naturally aspirated Pontiac...7.37 @ 179 MPH"

Actually no...Scott Rex has the worlds fastest, and it's 6 MPH faster. Oh yeah, it's also in a less aerodynamic and much heavier door car than that dragster. The QUICKEST would be more accurate, but not by much.

After reading these boards for almost 10 years, the Pontiac community in general has a lot of fastest/quickest self proclaimed titles. What makes them any different?

As a business selling product I'd say they can make the claim unless another business can show a better product making more hp. An individual shouldn't be able to sue a business based on a more hp claim if they don't have a comparable product to sell.
Someone can usually beat any HP claim at some point, but do you mfg and have production parts to sell to the public like KRE?

EXACTLY. SO your the quickest and fastest. Just means you all had more funding to throw at it. Put Doogie Howser behind the wheel of John Forces car and it will still go fast.

Wanna be
 

Just another KRE bashing thread.

Unless your car can out run someone or make MORE HP then someone, I would not criticize anyone. Way TOO many ARMCHAIR (do nothing) Quarterbacks on the board.

Lets just ALL get along and HELP "OUR" Pontiac Community grow.

Langers comments about filing a suit were tongue in cheek. Langer, Rex, Gaydosh & Maichle (before they sold their Pontiac stuff off), have made more naturally aspirated HP with a Pontiac, per cubic inch or otherwise, than anyone else on the planet, period. Guess whose heads they use and where they're ported? They're certainly not KRE heads nor are they ported by KRE or any other machinist KRE may have used in the past. 'Nuff said.

Advertising is advertising. If I own a Pizza shop, can't I say I have the best Pizza in town? Unless it's a copywritten label, I am not sure there can be an arguement?
Dyno's, flow benches and other measuring devices all vary. They can also be manipulated to show a desired number whether it is accurate on another machine or not.
I don't think any of this is worth arguing over.

They still have time to change the course. Make whole with their customers who have found quality issues and show they are willing to make good for all of their mistakes.
I don't understand how they can turn a blind eye to the community.
It isn't good for any of us.

Surely you're not talking about Langer, are you?:rolleyes: He did start the thread, and his car has seen more track time than yours has seen trailer time.;) Same goes for the Kauffman's and Butler's too...John has seen more track time than BOTH COMBINED. Let the fur fly! Is it Friday yet?!

Armchair Quarterbacks!
 

Brian,
First off, I'm pretty sure Langer can speak for himself, he doesn't need you too baby sit for him.

Second, I've been racing since 1974, that's 34 years off seat time in my race cars............. Thank You very much:)

Third, it was not aimed at him necessarily. I guess his post was just bad timing, that's all. Sure didn't take long for certain people too get stupid.

Forth, KRE's ad is very old, I guess it needs to be updated but then anyone who looks at the Pontiac Magazines would know that.

It was not my intention to start a "chicken sh!t" thread. I am just stating facts. They DO NOT make the most hp/cid per cfm. I don't think they are in the top 5. You can't race dyno's and you can't race flow benchs. Putting a number up on the board is what counts. I don't see the numbers to back up the claims.

You've been around these boards a long time, I'm sure you had to have known that your post would attract the PY Vultures.

[QUOTE=Ron H]I don't think any of this is worth arguing over



Agreed

Is it Friday yet?;)

No one has identifyed the engine KRE is making the claim about.Heard rumors it was some sort of big bore short stroke engine.
As far as advertised flow numbers not being what they said.It has happened all the time to heads comming through Whittmores shop.A set of KRE Edelbrock wide ports came through his shop and they were right on the flow sheet.+ - 1% in all runners.He told me they were the only set he has had from anyone elses shop to do so.
The problem with them was the seat work was so poor you could see light between the head and seats and had to be redone.They would have dropped for sure.
That tells me at least some the claims about High Ports and Aluminum D ports dropping seats and destoying engines were from poor machine work and not just bad castings.Unless there is air pockets when you cut the seats how could it be the castings fault fault when a seat drops?

Yeah, I kinda figured it was TIC, but thought I'd give my "legal" take on it since it was/is a legit question.

The rest is good entertainment. :popcorn:

I have the biggest d!@k in the whole Pontiac community. I have more whorespower per inch than any of you guys.

I am married so I have to keep my whorespower under the hood.

I've heard of going from the pan to the fire, but where does a thread go to when it's already in the crapper and then takes a turn like the last two posts?;)

Sorry, I thought we were comparing d!@ks.;)

Anatomy or personality?

But Wait Myn is bigger! 3450 lbs @ 128mph1/8th mile = 1150 Hp 1150 hp @477 CI =2.4 HP per Ci

You run a power adder Ray. They are talking N/A

I use a little blue bottle with Nitrous in it, some guys use a little blue pill called Viagra does she know the differance? no and neither does my motor :) End result is they both like it!

I'd have to agree with that. Everything we put in/on our motors is a power adder. And Im proud to say I don't need the "blue" in either form.

Well now.............if it ain,t YOUNG Jack FeRRis. Rosie Palm does not care either way. LOL

Didn't the tornado get you?

Tornadoes????????? In Colorado???? When??????? No Jack, I am too fast for 'em. I used to have to dodge the darn things all the time in Nebraska.

I was out there over the Memorial weekend to visit my father.

if someone would send their HPs and mr 1 to unc tony, it mite be the biggest and badist.....