Problems with the New IA 2 block
 

I bought a IA 2 block (which took me about 7 months to recieve) the block really does look good but there are a few quaility control problems that I've found. 1 the oil holes on the lifter galleys are tapped to deep blocking the oil feed to the right side of the motor. 2 the main bearing holes don't line up very well with any of the bearings that I've tried (you'll need to grind them). 3 the intermedate shaft was a little long but a easy fix. 4 the stock oil pan gasket will not even come close to the rear main so you need to take alot of time and hope you get lucky sealing it with two rear gaskets. 5 stock motor mounts need some grinding to make them fit.6 check the decks really close because they been having cast problems there??
This in no way is meant to knock this block you just need to check everything you can think of and post it online so the next guy can have a easier time putting this thing together

Holy Chit from the way this board talks I figure that block was damn near perfect.

That is damn near perfect!

Given the assembly sheet that All Pontiac posts for download on their website detailing what the responsibilities of the builder are, I'd have to agree with Mo. That is damn near perfect!

It also states that if a defect is found that All Pontiac must be notified immediately. Did you contact them before posting this?

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ding_notes.jpg

Have had to enlarge the holes on stock motor mounts and solid mounts to fit a FACTORY block. I'd say that can be attributed to poor quality control on the mounts. Just my opinion.

I don't understand #3. Explain. Might be a one off or batch deal?

#4: FWIW: With the recessed main caps this was a given from the get go. Gotta love that Grey Permatex silicone. ;) On race SBC circle track engines I don't even use the front or rear pan seals. Just silicone.

I have bought 3 of the last batch. No issues. But haven't used restrictors but will check with the 2 current ones I have.

I have elongated the main holes in the IA blocks. I just do it as a given. Also a Nice thing about FM bearings is the longer oil feed slot too. I also relay any issues of info I see straight to Bob or Frank. I know they appreciate it and pass it along to the shops that do the work.

All things that can be checked need checked when your assembling any aftermarket engine or changing anything from a factory standpoint.

Most don't have the experience and run into troubles thus creating many issues. But all info helps the non professionals.

We've recently (in the last two months) built a couple of those blocks, and have a third in here right now. What we've seen (and told AP):

The black-finished pipe plugs that come with the "kit" are not tapered properly and WILL go too deep. We simply use Pioneer pipe plugs and the problem is gone (not a machining problem, a "parts" problem).

The Felpro "Performance" pan set works fine, but the front lip must be "doubled up" or filled with bubba-CONE.

The oil pump driveshaft must not "bottom" against the top of the pump. The ones we've had have not, but we were told to look at that when we bought the block.

These are not "show stoppers", and the overall quality of the important aspects is very good.

We didn't see the bearing/oil hole alignment issue, but we HAVE seen it in factory blocks. We deck them to "zero" so the decks are fine.

All in all, it's a fine piece. It is completely "in line" with the Merlin, Motown, etc. "corporate" aftermarket blocks for fit, finish and accuracy. ALL aftermarket blocks need SOME attention. None are "ready to run" out of the box, unless your supplier has already taken them out, finsihed them and put them back in (such dealers like Competition Products who supply us with Chevy stuff).

FWIW

Jim

Hey Jim. Ya need about 40 of those black plugs. I thought they were just extras. Bwahahahahahahaha.

I have found pipe plugs of different manufacturers to be WAY different how deep they go.A real pain for water passages.

On my IA2 my Canton pans did have to be "massaged" for the rear main. seemed a hair wider at the block junction. Nothing Mr Ball Peen couldn't handle:) My pump intemediate shaft was actuall a hair loose so the distributor is not bottoming out on it.
#4 cam bearing was a little tight so we polished the cam journal a little. we also ground slightly on the main cap to use a factory dipstick.

All of the bolt holes were properly tapped. The main seal fit well. And everything else was a good fit.

Hoepfully will finally hit the dyno this month after the PSN this weekend!

428bird,
I have a chance to trade my 455 for a complete LS1 with ECM What would you do now ?
The 455 number 3 has been sleeved already, and I'm close to having all the parts and ready to put together
I have a set of Holset small twin turbos that I would like to get around 500 to 600 HP. The turbo's should work just fine on the ls1

I'm worried the stock block will not last, and finding 455 are getting hard to find.
My plan was to get a IA2 block later. saving for one. but after seeing the recall letter on the MR1 and having to pay the shipping both ways for a defect........ What is the shipping about $500 one way ?
My wife would kill me if I spent 3k-4k for a block and it had a defect and have to spend 1k more for shipping and what if the 2nd block has a defect ?
The car is a 1973 TA.

Jack ran into the opposite problem when assembling mine. The coolant plug at the rear of the block on the passenger side would not screw in flush with the block. In a conventional mounting arrangement not utilizing a full midplate, this is not an issue. For me however, I had to grind the plug flush with the rear of the block in order to properly fit the midplate to the rear of the block for mounting in the funny car chassis.

Skip. The Canton pan on my current engine had a leak along a welded seam. Had to mig weld it in the car as it's a lot of trouble to pull it and the pan. I guess the pans aren't checked for leakage when they leave the factory? But one in a 100 plus sold so far I guess is good odds in todays market?

Still a good piece.

Chris, there are new members to the hobby all the time that are not privy to the information that has been disseminated thus far.

I supply All Pontiac with the plug kits. The black plugs are a special 7/8 taper NPTF - the "f" is for fine thread. These were required on the early run of blocks and impossible to find. The machining was changed, not the quality of the plug. There is a special tap for those plugs, and I now use them in stock blocks - its 3/8 NPTF and should be coated (like TiN) for cast iron. Once my supply is done of the black plugs (I purchased a 1000 of the plugs), the kits will have standard 3/8 npt plugs. This also happened with the 1" pipe plugs in the back. The black plugs are actually called "dry seal, flush fit plugs" The fine thread and different taper allows the seal to take place in high pressure situations, not really applying to our usage. At least the pioneer 3/8 plugs are easy to get.

The brass plugs have some issues as well. These can be slightly porous sometimes and have threads that will allow the plugs to go into the block. I usually coat them on the inside and use either right stuff, grey permatex or brown permatex. There are choices with those as well. All Pontiac has a nice billet piece and I recently found an aluminum hex head pipe plug - but they stick out further and could have issues with certain headers.


I also changed the 1/8 plugs to external hex head - used to supply internal hex head and they could round out when removing plugs - Pontiac used external hex plugs as well (they always had great engineering)

So you can see I did a lot of research on the plugs when we tested the first IA2 block, but still changes go on. Its all part of the game.

I will agree let's not get this into a KRE bash.

But also Chris once you get "bent over" you tend to remember it.

Ken I had my F body pan deepened 1.5"

Brian....Brian.........Brian
 

Brian never got (so called) bent over, he probably has never even talked to KRE, he just wants to bring KRE down. Obviously he needs to get a life.

They seem to be doing a fine job all by themselves. Word of mouth travels farther than anything posted on this board. You know what else, George? People are judged by the company they keep...when you defend the actions of shysters, what image do you think you're portraying for yourself?

Brian....Brian.........Brian
 

Gee! Coming from you, that almost bothers me :)

Just think, for every one of "me", there's 10 more that think the same way and say nothing.:)

[QUOTE=Skip Fix;3311908]I will agree let's not get this into a KRE bash.

QUOTE]

I agree Skip. I believe the guy(428 Bird) is just a hobbiest that has never had an aftermarket block before. This is not a shot at him in anyway. Having never had a race block I can see where he would have some questions about his finds. 428Bird, I'm sure you will be very happy with your new block and I hope the professionals (Mr-Pbody and P-Dude ) helped clear up some of your questions. On a side note, the "New" MR-1 (as Listed on their web sight) has proven itself in cars like GTOGeorges and Brad Smulands. Everyone (self included) jumps on the past issues but forgets it is a new product made in a different foundry with some major changes for the better.

Guys two of us here that have had first hand experience say lets get it back to his question and stay with IA blocks. No cheerleading either!

Aftermarket blocks are a new deal for alot of us in the Pontiac community-old hat for many Chevy guys. There is a little learning curve but a good machinist can help figure them out.

Even different AN pipe fittings in the same brand fit differently in the same tapped hole sometimes.

Bill, is this a problem YOU had with the (another vender)or YOU just repeating what other people have said or posted.

Well, I mentioned my rear plug. My midplate is solid across with only a large enough hole for the flexplate to be attached to the crank. Midplates that more closely resemble the outline of the bellhousing (like a big letter "C") would probably not have clearance issues like I had with this plug.

Another issue, although minor, is dowel pins. Why no dowel pins on the back of the block for the bell housing? A very minor and easily rectifiable issue, but still?

I'm running the brass "freeze" plugs in the side of mine, but I'm not going to run any coolant in the block so I'm not concerned about potential porosity. The other "freeze" plugs AP offers with the O-rings look pretty keen. If I were running coolant, I'd have them in my block.

For the money, and the documented upgrades over an OEM and IA-1 block, it's worth every penny. Hey, every IA-2 comes with a sonic sheet. With a 4.180 bore (as delivered) all of my cylinder walls are more than .400" thick.

I have personally owned three IA-2 blocks. Went over each one carefully. With any aftermarket block as Ken and Mr P-Body said you need to know the normal prep items.

Each issue with the blocks I believe was resolved by Bob and Frank to everyones satisfaction. Customer Service!!

Tom V.

Here is a decent man!!!
 

[QUOTE=Drunk'nInjun;3311986] D I, Scott, I have to give YOU a TON, a TON of credit for this post. That is all that is needed to SAY. You are a decent man Scott!!!!! :)

Stallion, You need to also look at the posts I made about the aluminum billet race block KRE has (that Mellott showed me) that I was bragging up.

Tom V.

Sorry Tom, I did not see that thread. Like I said to you in my PM, it will be hard for me to dislike a man that says kind words about my son and me. Thank You for that and this. Maurice.

As been stated before by others on here, the Pontiac crowd is in a learning curve on the differences of aftermarket blocks that the competition is used to. I would think a call to Bob and Frank at All Pontiac would resolve any issues the starter of this thread has. Also calling people who have experience with the IAII blocks such as the engine builder like P Dude or any of the others here would certainly be a worthwhile call.

Brian You look like you have lost weight!

and since i dont get to BYB often Ill take the oppertunity while I can,
The connection between the too is "Lard"

I have in the last 3 years, but I still need to lose quite a bit more...about the weight of a small Japanese woman to be exact.:pound:

Read it Again.
 

Read it Again and again and again. You MIGHT understand it (but probability NOT)All I am TRYING to DO Brian is to be like you and your buddies changing the focus of the thread to suit your purpose,your vendetta. What I said in my post is all true and if you and your buddies don't believe the TRYING I said TRYING to put out the fire part ask DI or the Kauffman's. You are a PYROMANIAC, it is all here in black and white so keep on posting we will see who laughs LAST, it is really hard to say you did not say stuff when it is right here in front of all of us. I will contuine toTRY to help Scott and KRE settle their differences, you Brian keep on adding gas to the fire,you are great at that. To end with your FUNNY car why don't you do like most of us do, talk the talk,walk the walk. Smack talk at the track, shake hands, hug after the race and have RESPECT for what we all have done with our cars!!!

I've already walked the walk in a different medium, Maurice...a door car. Funny car is a new learning curve. You ever tried restoring a 30 year old hulk of metal and fiberglass that has no over the counter parts available for it, where everything needs to be custom made to fit it? It ain't the same as strolling to your chassis shop and placing an order for new pipe and having components hung from it that are all readily available from different outlets. I just got custom brake rotors delivered last week after waiting nearly 5 months for them.

Maurice , I think I started trying to get the thread back on track besides DI. We both personally had documented issues(mine were 2 others besides something I can't talk about) and said let's move on. Seems like you and Chris seem to egg on Brian in distracting the thread. How about we stop the cheerleading!

There are two sides to a story-Chris you really want to go there?? I think there is enough in any search with pictures to easily document undeniable issues that forced a recall. Let's all move on and stop denying those happened, or I guess we can go to court to stifle any comments that they did happen.

As I said before also I hope the issues are resolved with the "new" MR-1 , KRE heads, and any machining they do.

Let's get back to "normal" issues with aftermarket blocks and how to resolve them, hopefully minor enough to not need the product to be sent back. If they are that bad I do think a search can turn up how each company handles ALL their customers.

I'm a Kauffman Cheerleader

Hoooooray Dairy Farmer,,,, Hoooooray Dairy Farmer Oh wait a minute,


Hoooray Really Fast Dairy Farmers

Skip, go where? All I'm saying is, by the amount of sh#t that gets tossed around on the internet, I'm a big enough boy to come to my own conclusions, right, wrong or indifferent.

Question?
 

Chris, Stallion, and Gil.......... you do admit there were major quality control, both in house and manufactures, issues with some of the first castings of blocks. Thus leading to a limited warranty recall on certain selected block castings? Right?

Quote:

"I've already walked the walk in a different medium, Maurice...a door car."

I remember that event well at Norwalk, Brian. That was the year I first met Larry Davis and Ray Cox. Ray broke his Chit so he and Larry tag-teamed on your car late into the night as you went round after round after round. Impressed a lot of people with that deal. Quick 8 deal you make a small number of passes to possibly win. Your deal was you went through a lot of rounds, good driving there by the way.

I am impressed with the way Brian looks. He got his back fixed. He has lost a bunch of weight, He showed his funny car at VMP, etc,etc.

To me that says persistance. That is the part that you guys do not like. He doesn't give up, he keeps coming back. The rest of you guys just want to move on to the next "Flame Job". JMO

Tom V.

Thank you, Tom. That was Norwalk 2003...first time (and only time) I met Larry Davis. I think the first time I met Ray too. We had one helluva time that year, I'll never forget it. I think I had a lot of luck on my side that day too to go 7 rounds and get down to just 6 cars left before losing to Jon Gunter. My luck ran out on that pass...I tree'd him big time (still have that ET slip) but the car burped on launch...bottle was too cold. That was the first race I got the nitrous dialed in too. To be honest, I was amazed it ran so consistently pass after pass...I must have been listening when Ken Keefer gave me all that tuning advice.;)

The Bottle was cold Brian, because it was in the middle of the friggin night, well after midnight. LOL. Those bracket deals I have seen run til 4:00 am some times due to the number of cars and track issues.

Tom V.

LOL...it wasn't quite that late, but the sun was beginning to set. The problem was I had a two bottle warmer and we were getting into round robin rounds, not leaving much time to change bottles. Ray and Larry had just changed the bottle before that run...unbeknownst to me at the time with one that was not in the warmer. I had the system tuned to stage with 1000-psi line pressure...and after one pass it would drop to 900-925. This bottle was just under 900 when I staged, so I crossed my fingers and hoped...didn't work (LOL). Now here's the funny part, especially knowing what fuel prices are today. I got $75 for going that many rounds, which was just enough gas money to get home and leave about $5 in my pocket. Had I not went those rounds, I would have been borrowing some gas money from someone, as I tapped the bank account out on that driveshaft I had to get made in Akron on Friday (LOL) and the plastic was hurting too (LOL). 425 miles on just $70 worth of gasoline...but that's when it took about $35 to fill up the tank (LOL)...can't do that today!

Shoot Brian, one of my best buddies(God rest his soul) from the fire dept was twice your size.

We looled like Laurel and Hardy :)

I had a good story working there Brian and you went and screwed it up. You will never make it in the "No Sh*8er" story telling game.

No if Larry was here, you would have thought he completely rebuilt the whole car between rounds while keeping Ray in line.

Tom V.

Ken, never disputed the quality issues. I asked a couple "what if" questions and never really came out and defended anyone on this issue. I just like to play "Devils Advocate" at times.

I do like to challenge the constant "dead horse beating" from time to time. but that's all in fun. I'm not hatin!

Sorry, tom...I'll go sit in the corner now.:doh:

Chris my comment on "going where" was related to do you really want to open up the topic of there really being a different side on some of the previous issues. Some of them are so well documented so the "second side" really can't be a whole lot different. I take that to say I personally am full of crap(and several others) and didn't have any real issues before as the "other side" might say. That is what seems to be implied by others also in certain "camps" also. I get a little defensive when it's implied I'm a liar.

Anyway, finished a crazy morning where nothing was simple(cat with weight loss owner thought was worms had a liver tumor to be worked up, etc etc) now I'm off to hook up the trailer and go to the Southern Nationals in the 90+ degree heat! So you all can debate this the rest of the weekend.

Have Fun Skip!

Brian, Rules for a good NO SHI##er:

1) You cannot brag about yourself in the No SHI##er, ever. A Good Friend (or friends) is always more successful.

2) Whatever time it took it real life, it took twice as long in the No
SHI##er story.

3) Whatever it cost in real life, it cost 4 times as much in the No
SHI##er story.

4) What the part cost is always second to "WHO YOU GOT THE PART FROM" Like this Intake manifold came off of "Mickey Thompson's" Challenger Blower Motor.

5) Who always need to include the guys who you raced against. Bragging about racing against GTOGEORGE will get you less points vs dragging against Arnie Beswick. Even if Annie was racing a ten second Tempest at the time and George was running mid 8s. If no one was keeping records you can shorten the time by at least a 1/2 second and increase the MPH by 10 mph.

6) You always get more respect by kicking all the rods out of your engine vs fixing the leaking head gasket that cause the rods to exit the block. Must have been all of that Horsepower you built into the engine.

7) Having a blower on you car is worth more than NOS. Having a Blower and NOS is worth more than having a Tunnel Ram. Running a 4 bbl engine that runs fast in a legal weight doorslammer get you less points vs the RED that makes 1/2 the HP. (remember this is a NO SHI##er" contest here. Doesn't matter if the Doorslammer is a former World Champion and you haven't really beaten anyone in your racing career. If the doorslammer was competing against the world's
fastest Chebbys or Fords in the class, you get even less points as everyone knows the Chebbys and Fords don't run.

8) You paste your car with stickers you bought at a swap meet but you borrow gas money to get back home because all of that "contingency money" was really a NO SHI##er thing on all your buddies.

There are more but these are the easy ones.

Tom V.

My reaction to an action!
 

[QUOTE=Skip Fix;3312612]Maurice , Seems like you and Chris seem to egg on Brian in distracting the thread. How about we stop the cheerleading! QUOTE] Skip, how can you ever say that I egg Brian on. I NEVER stick my face in there until BB starts his vendetta, his PYROMANIAC ways,over and over and over again. Did I post on this thread first or did I post after the picture of the butter. Was the thread about the IA 2 block or not, who is cheerleading now you or me. Why do any of us have to listen to the same sh*t over and over and over again. SHUT UP if it is not your fight. I will put money down that if WE (and I did say WE) would spend 1 tenth of our time trying to help fix this situation as we do bashing it the problem would have been gone long ago!!!!

The THREAD is ABOUT the IA 2 BLOCK not anyone else's customer service or block or heads or suit or BS, just the IA 2 BLOCK. WHAT THE F**K you guys give to a break!!! :confused:

WRONG!
 

Ken, what does the YOUR QUOTE have anything to do with this thread? I do feel bad for all parties INVOLVED but I have a different understanding then the bashers of what went on. On any threads did you here me bash anyone DIRECTLY INVOLVED. If I THOUGHT that I MIGHT have said something wrong to the DIRECTLY INVOLVED, I PMed them with an apology. The Stallion.

NICE, TOM.
 

Tom, it is very nice on how you stick up for your friend and I applaud you for that. Why is it that went I stick up for MY FRIENDS I am a bad guy. I believe I am as persistent as your friend and more. Mine is POSITIVE persistence. (EXCEPT when it comes to BB) In the past 4/5 years I have been coming to Norwalk going faster and faster, with a limited budget, knowledge and help. In 2004, I broke my new motor and my hand but I still keep coming BACK!!! I walked the walked and HOPE to continue to RUN this year. As for 1993, I have a trophy in front of me that saids {{TRI POWER. Sunday, RACE RUNNER-UP. SEPTEMBER 26,1993. SUPER DUTY Promotions.}} I think I went 6 rounds with no crew and with my LIMITED KNOWLEDGE(BB, you will like this) of racing. We all have our stories Tom. WHAT is this thread about again??? :second: :confused: :argue: :) ;)