Taking the plunge: LS3 into a '64 Tempest
 

It's time for me to start planning my LS3 engine swap, the car I'm using for my project is my '64 Pontiac Tempest 'sleeper' that was powered by a mild 455 Tri-Power engine. I have owned a 2002 WS6 A4 convertible since new so I know just how great these LSX engines are, my 100% stock 5.7 T/A is 1/2 second quicker in the 1/4 than my 455 Tempest.

My Tempest is NOT a hard-core Pro-Touring car. Link to car details:http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...Pontiac-owner.

I want to keep it low-key and continue the sleeper theme. The bench seat and column shifter will stay, with no changes to the stock dash/gauges. I already have oil pressure, trans and and water temp gauges under the dash, I'll add other gauges if needed. I won't need a tach, the trans will be programmed to shift before the engine redline. But if it seems like a good idea to add one, I will.

Having the power of a new '08 Corvette should make it a lot more fun. I won't add aftermarket engine dress-up items, add an engine cover, move the coil packs off the valve covers or anything like that.

Knocking a good 250 to 300 pounds off the front end with an all-aluminum V8 should do wonders for handling. Plus a new fuel-injected 6.2 engine should give me close to a 130 HP boost (hoping the stock LS3 with headers/2.5" mandrell-bent exhaust will be close to 460 HP) and reward me with close to double my current fuel mileage (9-10 city, 12-13 highway with 2.56 gears).

My low-compression (8.2:1) 335 HP 455 wasn't the most fuel-efficient engine, but it was dead-reliable and put together with all stock Pontiac parts. It easily yanked the 'ol Tempest (3780# without driver) into the high 13s in the 1/4 (13.899 @ 101.85), using 1st and 2nd gear only, I'm sure knocking off some weight and adding 130 HP will knock over a second off my ET.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...DSC00839-1.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...DSC00842-1.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...DSC00848-1.jpg

I want to install a new LS3 430 HP crate engine, the only mod to the engine will be a set of headers and a tune. I want to keep it a reliable, smooth-running and fuel-efficient package, so no big cam or other mods. I plan on buying the wiring harness from GM that's made for the LS3 crate engine, unless there's a better or cheaper alternative.

I will be running an automatic trans of some kind, and it's very important that I keep the trans mounted in the stock location as I want to keep the factory column shifter and linkage. I don't want to run any conversion mounts that will jack up the engine/trans or move them forward or back from the stock location.

I'm hoping to find a combination of mostly stock GM accessory drives that will work with my plan of keeping the engine/trans in the stock location. Same thing goes for the oil pan and header selection. I'd prefer to run a factory pan of some kind (good luck, maybe the LH8?), but if I need an aftermarket pan of some sort to provide crossmember to pan as well as tie rod to pan clearance I'll buy one.

Right now the way the car is set up, I'm using a TH400 trans with the original ST300 2-speed auto shift linkage, the steering column and shifter detent have been modified (column slots lengthened for more travel, new low-gear detent step welded on) in order to select all 3 gears.

I'll either add a Gear Vendor OD to the existing TH400 (freshly rebuilt) with tight 10" Continental 3200 converter (also spankin' new) , or go with a 4L60E or possibly a 4L80E. Not sure if I want to deal with electronic auto trans control or not, but with the DBW LS3 engine it may be the best way to go.

Cruise control would be nice. I'll put the TH400/10" Continental in one of my other cars and go for a modern GM OD auto if that's the best route, hopefully without too much hammering on the trans tunnel. My column shift should be adaptable, I'll let the new 4L60E do all the shifting after I pop it into either Drive or OD with my lil' Granny column shifter.

Air conditioning is a must, a Vintage Air setup or whatever will be installed, so I'll need to accomodate an A/C compressor in the accessory drives.

I would like to run an in-tank fuel pump. Would any of the aftermarket Chevelle stainless steel tanks adapt to the Tempest/Lemans/GTO? I know the filler necks are different, perhaps the Tempest neck could be added to one. I can mod my stock tank if that would be a better way to go.

The rear end has been changed from th 2.56 open rear that was original to the car to a 3.36 posi. It is a factory 1966 GTO 8.2" 10-bolt so I hope it will hang in there a while if I don't thrash it too hard, this isn't a drag car with sticky tires so it should be okay.

Any help with putting together a shopping list for engine mounts, oil pan, accessory drives, headers (again keeping in mind the trans needs to stay put in the stock location) along with a fuel system and any electronics/wiring I'll need to buy would be greatly appreciated.

My apologies for the long-winded post, I tried not to leave anything out. :o

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...h/19171224.gif

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...Tempest003.jpg

LS3 specs, for those unfamiliar with this fantastic powerplant...
 

2008 "LS3" 6.2L V8, (new GM crate engines are selling for right around $6200 + $895 for the wiring harness/controller/drive by wire throttle pedal assy, not bad)

Type:......................................6.2L Gen IV V8
Displacement:...........................6162cc (376.0 ci)
Compression ratio:....................10.7:1
Valve configuration:..................2 valves/cylinder, 2.16" hollow-stem intake/1.60" exhaust
Rocker arms:..........................1.7:1 roller with 6mm offset intake rockers
Assembly site:........................St. Catharines, Ontario
Valve lifters: ..........................hydraulic roller
Camshaft:..............................(204/211 @ .050, .551"/.521" lift)
Firing order: ...........................1 - 8 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3
Bore x stroke:.........................103.25 x 92mm (4.06" X 3.62")
Fuel system: ..........................sequential fuel injection
Fuel type:...............................premium fuel recommended
Bore Center:............................4.40" (111.76 mm)
Fuel shut off:..........................6600 rpm
Emissions controls:...................catalytic converter three-way catalyst positive crankcase ventilation

Applications: hp ( kw )/Torque ( Nm )
Chevrolet Corvette:
430(321kW) @ 5900 / 424(575Nm) @ 4600 SAE CERTIFIED

Chevrolet Corvette w/ Optional Exhaust:
436(325kW) @ 5900 / 428(580Nm) @ 4600 SAE CERTIFIED


Materials:
Block:......................cast aluminum
Cylinder head:...........cast aluminum (324/199 cfm intake/exhaust @ .550" lift) :eek:

Intake manifold: .......composite
Exhaust manifold:......cast nodular iron
Main bearing caps:.....powder metal
Crankshaft:..............cast iron with undercut and rolled fillets
Camshaft:................hollow steel
Connecting rods:.......forged powder metal

Do you mind me asking where you get a 2008 Vette motor?? Just currious. Did it come out of a wrecked car or can you buy it from GM?

Paul,

The LS3 is readily available as a brand-new crate engine from GM, they also sell a special wiring harness for engine swaps into older cars. :thumbup:

Link to an LS3 crate engine from Pace Performance, one of many sellers offering GM crate engines of all types:http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=228371

The LS3 was recently tested, along with 7 other GM crate engines in the October '08 issue of Hot Rod Magazine. The stock 430 HP LS3 with the addition of a set of headers ran 11.333 at 114.23 MPH in a race-prepped 3334# '69 Chevelle, running 4.44 gears and a high-stall 8" race torque converter and 10.5X28" slicks.

I can see it powering my car to easy mid-12s, just like the new 'vette road tests show. The Tempest should weigh right about 3500# without driver with the much lighter all-aluminum engine. I expect to be getting mileage numbers in the mid-teens in the city and low to mid 20s on the highway with a 4-speed auto OD trans, the more aerodynamic '08 Corvette (around 3300#) is EPA rated 16/26 city/highway MPG.

Bart-

Very very cool. This build just went to the top of my list of 'builds to watch'....

Not sure I have much help to offer right now except for some encouragement. BTW... I like the idea of the 4L80E.

Scott.

Sounds like a fun project! I assume you followed Andrew's '70 build?

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=553683

I've enjoyed watching that one come together.

Thanks guys, this project is still in the initial planning stage right now.

I think the direction I'm heading in is going to work out pretty well. I really want to have most of the parts sitting here before I buy the engine (24-month warranty), I need to get all of my ducks in a row before starting to turn the wrenches.

Still not sure if a takeout LS3 engine from a wrecked low-miles 'vette would be better for me, it would at least have all the accessories intact and other various pieces I can use for the swap. I'm open to any good options at this point.

I have followed Andrew's very impressive build and I'm hoping he'll chime in and help to steer me in the right direction. I have posted a copy of this thread on the LS1tech.com and Pro-Touring.com forums since I'm looking as much helpful input as I can gather.

x2. Look thru Andrew's thread for alot of LSx/GTO info.

Bart - I don't thnk you will have an issue with mounting the LSx in the stock location. I put an LSx/4L60e into a 1990 Chevy truck (same truck as mine - 454SS), using the original big block mounts & stock rear tranny Xmember (TH400 was original in 1990 454SS trucks). There are many suppliers making the offset brackets to mount small/big block Chevy mounts to the LSx block. You will need chevy frame mounts to make this work (different than Pontiac. I used a S & P accessory drive to raise the A/C compressor. It was a nice kit, but very expensive. Supposedly you can use a stock truck LSx setup with little work. I did this swap about 4-5 years ago & very little was avaiilable for the LSx swaps back then. The stock Camaro oil pan was on the motor & it fit the xmember great. The 1988-1998 C/K 2wd trucks have a similar xmember to the A bodies. Not sure if this will work or not.

As for the in tank pump, I used AN fittings on my truck with a bosch pump in the tank. I just bent some hard line & got an AN fitting that adapts from the steel line to the AN -6. Then I soldered the hard line into the stock sending unit. The chevy truck came with an in tank pump originally, but it was a low pressure pump. My Accel DFI came with the bosch pump & it was about 3 times larger than the stock pump.

I would think you should be able to fab up a setup to use the stock GM pump in an original style sending unit. I think the LS3 uses a returnless system, so you really only need one line run to the front. I had the fuel rail modified to be a return style & used the original GM return line in this truck swap. Of course the feed line needed upgraded for the higher pressure (TBI is 6-9 psi, LSx is 45+ psi).

Just my .02. Good luck with the project.

well it looks like that thread about the wrecked gtos was the straw that broke the camels back. should be nice though. as cleanly detailed as all the pictures of the mechanical aspects of your cars ive seen on here show iam sure youll be able to make it look like it belongs there. good luck

Sorry that I am a little late to the party. Looks like you have a well detailed plan. One thing I should mention is that the GM Performance harness and ECU combo, like I am using, does not support automatic transmissions. It is a manual trans only harness. If you are going with an automatic, I would suggest getting in touch with Speartech. If you want to use the GM harness and explore other options, there are a few good ones. My favorite would be to contact Twist Machine, and get one of their programmable ECUs.

I would go with the stock Corvette accessories. Notch the frame for the A/C compressor. Use Edelbrock adapter plates, as they will mount the bellhousing in exactly the same position as before. Edelbrock also makes nice headers for your application.

I am using an LS7 cam and my combo made 418RWHP. So I would definitely recommend some kind of cam swap. Even a super mild cam will get you an extra 30-40 HP without sounding like it has any kind of non-stock cam.

If you have any specific questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Andrew

BRP? makes conversion mounts and rear x member for the swap with the 4l60 it seems there is not tunnel work needed on the 64-67

The engine mounts he makes allow you to use the F body engine as a take out and not have to notch frames or the like and puts you with the proper drivelline angle

489 bucks for the setup.

Although from what I read it keeps adding up with the trans tail shaft conversion for mech. speedo if you want it and so on and so on.

I have been looking recently I picked up an LS1 and 4l60 for my 37 ford but am thinking very hard about putting it in my 65 tempest wagon would make a very nice fuel efficient fast driver over my 4sp and ram air 3 cammed 400 at 10.25:1 engine.

Plus the weight savings will really change the handling characteristics something fierce

LOL ya know I wanted a pontiac motor and built an IA2 for a serious engine but to do it all over again I would get a stroker LS or LS7 minor beefing up and go way more miles to gallon, injected and doctile compared to a similar HP POntiac based motor.

But hey I like my IA2 too.

YOu won't ruin the tempest hey it is all bolt in anyway.

Andrew,

Thanks for the helping me get things started here, you've given me some very important bits of specific engine mounting and header application info that I really appreciate.

I have four questions for now, more to come later I'm sure.

1.) What is the part # for the LS7 cam?

I'm all for running OEM stuff in this engine rather than aftermarket for longevity's sake. LS7 427 cam specs: Duration @ .050 211/230,.593/.588 lift with 1.8:1 rockers, lift will be reduced to .560/.555 with stock LS3 1.7:1 rockers (fine by me).

2.) Exactly what rubber (or urethane?) engine mounts/OEM steel frame mounts do I need to make the Edelbrock (P/N 6701) adapter plates work? Link to adapter plates:http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...+115&x=23&y=11

I assume I'll need to source some Chevelle pieces here. I've done some searching/reading on a couple of different sites and I see different combinations of wide/narrow/short/tall Chevelle engine mounts and frame mounts mentioned for the A-body swaps. Which direction do I need to go here?

3.) How much ground clearance do the Edelbrock (P/N 65073) LSX swap headers offer? How far do they hang below the frame rail on your car Andrew? Link to headers:http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

4.) Which oil pans will work with the engine in this mounting position, either factory or aftermarket?

I noticed while reading through your thread that you bought an aftermarket pan from Autokraft for your '70. Since buying that pan have you learned anything more about other pan options for the A-body cars?

I am really leaning towards running an un-modified factory pan. I know my car won't have the cornering ability to require anything more than a factory pan. I'd like to retain any additional bottom end reinforcement the thick cast aluminum pan has to offer, even though that added stiffness may be more sales hype than fact. Also trying to keep costs in check here, I really don't want to spend $400-$600 on an aftermarket pan and possibly relocate the oil filter.

The Corvette pan that the LS3 engine comes with is supposed to be fairly compact, but I'm considering the GM factory LH8 pan which is even more compact and supposed to be a good fit for early GM F & A-body LSX conversions (2008 Hummer H3 Alpha pan w/gasket & bolts: P/N 12614821, pickup/screen: P/N 12608593). P/N 19212593 is for the kit that includes the pan, pump pick up, dipstick, hardware, gaskets, and windage tray http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=245308.

I've seen a picture of the LH8 pan in a '64 Lemans with a BRP mounting kit but I'm not sure if the engine is mounted in close to the same location as mine will be. It looks to sit a bit higher with the BRP kit than I want mine to sit, not sure. The engine mounts look tall, and it appears the engine is sitting high to help the accessory drives clear the frame/steering components with minimal cutting/grinding. Link to thread with pics:http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43481 The LH8 pan looks to hang about 1" below the crossmember, not a big issue as I'm assuming the Edelbrock headers will hang about that far below the bottom of the frame rail as well.

Thanks again to you and to everyone else here who have taken the time to help me with their constructive input. :cool:

So far it looks like the Edelbrock engine mounting plates and headers will be on order pretty soon, still up in the air on the oil pan and exactly what OEM engine mounts I'll need.

Bart

Bart -

I was at Memphis this weekend for the NMCA meet and one of the manufacturers on the midway specialized in GM LSX motor transplants in various vintage musclecars. The car they had on display was an old rotted '64 Lemans hardtop with a LS motor installed.

I grabbed some business cards:

Muscle Rods
GM LSX Conversion Kit specialists
Shawn Henderson
Marketing and Sales
Office 770-751-0687
Direct line 678-873-0847
www.MuscleRods.com

Muscle Rods
GM LSX Conversion Kit specialists
Bart Johnson
Shop Manager
Office 770-751-0687
Direct line 678-446-0653
www.MuscleRods.com

Muscle Rods
GM LSX Conversion Kit specialists
Phil Brewer
Owner
Office 770-751-0687
Direct line 678-457-0987
www.MuscleRods.com

There also was a company that did accesory drive bracketry.

They were

Kwik Performance
1146 W. Pheasant Run St
Springfield MO 65810
417-955-1467
www.kwikperf.com

there's also ATS, didn't see them mentioned yet, they make motor mounts, oil pans, etc. www.t56kit.com

and i'll second upgrading just the cam in a new LS3 probably gains 30-40hp

Keith,

Thanks for the links, both are now bookmarked. I saw the crusty '64 Lemans on the Pro-Touring.com site, I linked to a thread showing their kit in my post above. Still not sure if their kit puts the engine and trans in the right position to suit me. :confused:

Colin,

Thanks for the link to ATS, I'll explore their site.

A cam swap is the best bang for the buck next to headers, it would be nice to be approaching 500 flywheel HP and still be able to get 20+ MPG on the open road. Those 320-330 cfm heads will really wake up with some more cam.:)

Watching this thread. My 64 will probably get some sort of LS motor

Great thread...thinking about doing this for my '66 GTO as well. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING...I need all the help I can get. LOL

It is a no brainer and I think I will end up putting my LS1 in my 65 wagon next spring we will see how finances go.

i will use the BRP set up most cost effective. Although I am starting to really like shifting gears in my wagon and would almost hate to put the 4l60e in it. just dont have the money for the extra $$ to find a 6 sp. and the 4sp would not give me the overdrive that I am wanting. hmmm

Working on the same project for my 70 gto. If I use the new auto trans, I wonder how the speedo will work?? I have a 200r4 (built) that I also could use. The mpg will be great.

I was doing some research and saw there is a conversion tail housing offered for the 4L60E trans to run a speedo cable:http://jagsthatrun.com/4L60_Order.html

I contacted a trans builder that I know who sponsors the Pontiac Drag Days bracket racing series out here, Hubbe's Performance http://www.hubbes.com/. Hubbe says he can set me up with a 4L65E (stronger version of the 4L60E) and a torque converter for around 2K. I'll see if the 4L60E tailhousing/cable driven speedo conversion will fit the 4L65E and if so, I'll have that included with my trans build.

Still busy doing my research, when I'm more certain about what parts I need then I'll start ordering things.

What is the estimated cost of such a transplant? Certainly not planning a project but I’m curious as I’m sure others are too. $10’000 $15”000 Soup to Nuts.

Hoping I don't spend much more than 12K.

The new LS3 crate engine is half the 12K cost if I go that direction, rather than find a low-miles engine from a wrecked 'vette.

It's very easy to spend over 10K for any good street V8 that makes 450+HP along with a good overdrive trans that will handle some power. Exhaust, cooling and fuel system go along with that too.

Rough numbers:

New LS3 crate engine - $6200 (Very easy to spend this much building a top-notch street engine of any brand)

Engine wiring harness, new GM - $900

Complete set of Corvette accessory drives - $800 (aftermarket serpentine belt setups easily cost this much or more)

Vintage Air A/C setup - $1000

Headers - $600

Engine mounts - $150

4L65E trans and converter/Lokar dipstick tube/B&M trans cooler - $2200

Driveshaft - $150

Fuel system (aftermarket stainless fuel tank with internal EFI pump) - $600

Radiator (universal aluminum crossflow) - $200

Cooling fans (4th gen F-body or?) - $150 to $200

That's 13k already.

Whatever it takes, this hobby does cost some money to pursue as we all know. :usa2:

Found out about a company who makes EFI-ready steel fuel tanks for our older cars, Spectra Premium Industries Inc. located in Canada.

I saw one on Rock Auto for $451.99 plus $75.96 shipping. Still looking around for the best price on it.

Specs on the part # GM37FFI tank/pump combo I'm going to purchase. The pump will reportedly handle up to 550 HP, I'm only planning on having about 450-460 HP:

US Gallon : 20
Liter : 76
Size : 37 1/4" x 30" x 6 3/4"
Strap Set : ST48; SSST48
Comments : W/O VENT PIPE; INCLUDES SENDER ASSEMBLY WITH STOCK-CAPACITY FUEL PUMP 85-115 PSI / 50-60 GPH; (0-95 OHMS); (45° FLARED FITTINGS (SAE) / THREADS 3/8 - 24)
Kit No : LO01
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q.../m_gm37ffi.jpg

Neat I know spectra made regular tanks but not these very cool and cheaper than the fabbed out tanks very very cool and smart stinking.

By the time you do it your conversion will be a breeze to perform

Bman- you might to consider a FAST computer with a speartech harness. I believe they can control autos AND give yo user friendly tune-ability.

I plan on doing this to a 69 GTO. you can not beat the power, fuel economy and size. It is hard to overlook the modern ammenitites like cruise, a/c and heat when doing it a complete retro.

I see Speartech mentioned a couple of times here, I'll see what they have to offer and likely go with their product.

Going to look into purchasing the fuel tank/pump assembly tomorrow, I have another lead on where to buy the SPI tank.

Also going to contact my trans guy (Hubbe) and try to firm up a final price and delivery time on the 4L65E with lockup converter.

I might have to upgrade my exhaust, my current 2-1/2" Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers are only rated for a tad less than 400 HP before they start to restrict the power. New mufflers may be in the cards, or perhaps an entirely new 3" exhaust.

Gotta get this thing going.:old:

B-man- cool project. Might want to jump on getting that fuel tank asap - Cdn dollar has dropped a huge amount against USD in the last month or so.

Bart,

I am sorry for the late response, but let me see if I can tackle some of your questions.

1. No clue. LOL. I got mine from Jeff Schwartz. Give him a call. I think he has a couple of new, take out, LS7 cams sitting around that were taken out of new crate engines. http://www.schwartzperformance.com/

2. Used the exact same parts that I had with the BBC. I have reproduction Chevelle big block frame stands and Energy Suspension, tall/narrow poly mounts.

3. I haven't measured the ground clearance, but the Edelbrock headers tuck up nicely. I can take a measurement if this is critical. I will say that they are the best fitting headers I have ever owned.

4. For me, the only option was the Autokraft pan. From everything that I have read, non of the OEM pans will work the the Edelbrock mounts. I needed to use the Edelbrock mounts because their engineer claimed that their mounts will position my bellhousing in the exact same location as it was with my BBC. This was critical for me since I did not change the transmission. My shifter needed to be in the same location as before. As it turned out, Edelbrock designed the mounts as promised and my shifter is in exactly the same location as before. I asked if I can use the CTSV pan, but the Edelbrock engineer told me I could not and sent me pictures that showed where the pan hit. Believe me, they really wanted an OEM pan to work, but as it stands none do. So with that I got the Autokraft pan because it is the only steel pan that retains the oil filter in the stock location. That was the critical feature for me. I would never use the LH8 pan. It hangs 2 inches below the front crossmember. That just looks hideous.

If you don't mind moving the engine back I have seen swaps that use the 4th gen F-body pans. Keep in mind that moving the engine back can present problems with the heads hitting the firewall if you ever have to swap transmission. When the seal in my hydraulic TOB blew I had to pull the trans. With the engine in the stock location I was able to really tip the transmission down and service it without an issues. I can see if the engine was further back the heads might hit the firewall.

I hope that helps.

Andrew

B-Man
I am doing an LS2/T56 swap into my 71 Bird. Here is my 0.02

ATS - I ordered their clutch master and bracket. Not cheap, but awesome products. I think he is one man show so communincation is poor.

BRP (Muscle Rods)- I purchased their header and they are amazing. A true bolt in. Shawn is a great guy to deal with, very knowledgable and helpful. They are doing a LS into a 64 Tempest as well.

Howell Industries - Modified the stock wiring harness for my swap. No issues with them.

I got the Spectre gas tank within a week and it fit great.

I can only tell you how all the pieces fit as the car is still in the body shop, but I can tell you everything went together well.

This is great no nonsense straight up info love it keep it coming everything major has just about been addressed. Very good to know about the E swap brakets and having the trans in the proper position.

Still curious about the BRP engine mount swap about the location. Also the LH8 pan versus the other steel pan in relation to ground clearance. I agree i would not like it so low past the front x member.

I have a funny feeling I will be doing an LS swap in my future onto one of my A bodys.

Andrew, do you know the part # or what year/engine application the Corvette fuel filter/regulator that you used is for so I can order one?

Also, would you have any part #'s handy for your reproduction Chevelle big block frame stands and Energy Suspension, tall/narrow poly mounts? The same for your Autokraft pan?

I would also really appreciate a couple of header measurements when you have some time:

1) From the bottom of the lowermost header tubes to the bottom of the framerail, how far they hang below the frame. A ground clearance measurement on your car won't be useful.

2) From the bellhousing to engine interface (where the engine and bellhousing bolt together) to the end of the header collector. This will help me see if there will be any header collector interference with my column shift linkage.

I posted in a thread on the Pro-Touring forums http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48410 a couple of days ago asking Phil at BRP MuscleRods about the location of the engine/trans using their mounts & heads, no response yet. I have a feeling their stuff doesn't mount the engine where I want it.:( Also not sure if their headers are 409 stainless like the Edelbrock ones.

That's fine, because now I know the Edelbrock stuff will work along with the Autokraft pan. Just trying to look at different options.

Thanks again to everyone chiming in with useful info.:cool:

Corvette filter/regulator combo ACDELCO Part # GF822 1999-2003 Corvette

Chevelle frame stands Year One Part # FM36

Energy Suspension engine mounts: http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/mt_tr1.html

Autokraft Oilpan: http://www.autokraft.org/products/

Give me a few days and I will get you the header measurements.

Andrew

Thanks Andrew.

Just ordered the SPI tank and GF822 filter/regulator from Rock Auto (got a 5% discount using their current discount code 831778737458, this code expires December 21st).

Ordered the Autokraft oilpan and FM36 Chevelle frame stands too.

I'll order the Edelbrock headers and mount adapters along with the 3.117G Energy Suspension urethane mounts (tall/narrow) from Summit Racing after I see the results of the header measurements. The Edelbrock headers don't look overly long for a long-tube header, seems like they would be good to clear my ol' Granny column shift linkage.;)

After I get all of these items delivered I'll order the new LS3 engine with Corvette accessories and get my 4L65E trans built up.

Trying to keep moving forward.

After driving my wife's 02 Avalanche and it's 5.3 and my 04 GTO with just an LS1 I to am impressed with these motors, broad torque curve also.

Sounds like a neat deal!

yeah Skip, my '07 sliverado has the 5.3 with "torque management". Gm's solution to busting up driveline components. It's a turd performance wise.
My old '96 vortec had better response.

my 06 silvy doesn't have it and Mine flies for a truck!

I'm a little late to this party, but..

wouldn't a dry sump solve a lot of problems (at a large cost.)

I noticed the LS7 available for around $13K. All the dry sump crap adds another $2000+. You'd be well past your budget, but 505 HP would be really kewl.

Nice project Bart!

The LS7 is over twice the cost of the LS3 as you know. Both use the same heads, with the LS7 having them CNC ported for about another 20 cfm of flow along with some lighter valves.

The Autokraft oil pan already has road race baffling built right in, and the sump shape solves any engine to chassis fitment problem. Done deal, I'm already signed up. No way will my Tempest corner hard enough to need the dry sump oiling system, not that I wouldn't want it.:)

It's pretty easy to add another 75 to 100 HP to the LS3, it could be done for a grand or two. A set of headers brings it right up to 450-460 HP, keeping the mild (fuel efficient) stock 204/211 cam. The LS3 is simply the performance bargain of the decade in my eyes.

$6200 buys you an all-aluminum V8 engine (about 430 pounds total weight I'm pretty sure) with port EFI, big-time head airflow, a hydraulic roller cam and rockers, a lightweight heat-rejecting tuned intake, and more. You couldn't even purchase a bare aluminum aftermarket Pontiac block for the entire price of this engine.

It's all economics, I'll be getting the biggest bang for my performance dollar here. The engine makes great power, and is far lighter than any aluminum-headed iron-block Pontiac engine. Makes the car handle, a must-have for me.

Pulled the Tempest out of the garage after spending half the weekend cleaning up and making some room to work, it's on.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...t/DSC02169.jpg

Are u gonna change out the front springs or just cut a coil, the weight diff of the engine should make it sit high?? I used the stock replacements in mine, but have SBC and had to cut 1 coil off to get the upper control arms off the rubber stops. just another though for the process. LOL.

Rick

Bart, doesn't this engine come with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty? Frankly I think this is one of the coolest ideas in a long time.

Just to clarify, the LS7 heads and the LS3 heads are different. Some noticeable differences are valve angle, and intake port shape. The LS7 heads also use huge 2.25" titanium intake valves and 1.8:1 rockers, compared to the LS3/L92 2.16" intake and 1.7:1 rockers.

Andrew

I already have another set of Global West front springs that have been cut down, I'll put them in to replace the H-O Racing springs that are in there now. I'll almost certainly need to trim them down even more.

The LS3 crate engine does come with a 24 month warranty.:cool:

Guess I was confusing the LS3 heads with the L92 heads.:confused:

Man, is that LS7 ever something special!

I'm still learning.:usa2:

Get a chance to measure your headers yet? :)

Here you go. From the frame rail to the bottom of the header is about 2.25" on the driver's side. From the bellhousing to the end of the collector it is about 12", again on the driver's side.

You should also give Jeff Schwartz a call. I talked to him a couple of days ago and he has some LS7 cams for sale.

Andrew

Thanks.

Just now ordered my Edelbrock headers and engine mount adapters, Energy Suspension urethane mounts and Griffin universal 24" X 19" aluminum crossflow radiator.

I'll get in touch with Jeff and see how much he wants for the LS7 cam.

Bart

What's wrong with the H-O springs that you already have? As I recall they have a rate of 450lb/inch. Should be perfect. You may have to trim them, but the rate should be good.

Andrew

b-man- Hotrod put a stock LS7 into a 70 Chevelle. It went 10.80's at 12x.xx mph. It is a SICK bullet.

i'm not sure anyone would say that the LS7 is anything but a phenom. sick sick sick.

if you are talking about the recent HRM article where they thrashed through a bunch of GM crate motors through the yellow '69 chevelle? IIRC, they made a specific comment about the LS3 only 75 less horsepower than LS7 for half the price. ...would make that last 75 hp cost about $6,500.

Yes that is the article. I am not saying B-man SHOULD use the ls7, just saying it is a very impressive piece.

Micro economic theory. See Law of Diminishing returns. Also see marginal benefit vs. marginal cost analysis. Sorry I couldn't help it. We are going over all that stuff in a couple of my MBA classes. LOL

Andrew