PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT Balancers are shi*!!!!!
 

As some of you know I did a leakdown test on my car the other day
and in doing so noticed that when i brought it up on the comp stroke the bal wasn't anywhere near the zero! I told my brother thats kinda odd its always at zero!.. So anyway just excused it and continued on with the testing.Well today i decided its damn nice i want to go for a drive but before i do i wanted to check the timing to see if something was up with it.. sure enough it was all over the place... so i shut it off.. and sure enough u could spin the outer ring easily!!!...Got it all apart and it had really worn it out...I have no idea how long its been loose as i havn't checked the timing in awhile!...Never noticed nothing different in the way the car revved or anything...These are absolutely the worst design I have ever seen in my life!! and whoever is making this junk they better stop!! I know some very reputable places sell them! and I have no idea why!... I bought this last year and after buying and reading all the shi* i just made sure i loctited everything down.. which those were still tight!...But these are junk junk!!!! SORRY ABOUT CRAPPY Pics was with my phone

So this one failed with the bolts still tight?

take some better pics when you get a chance
looks interesting

Yep the one I had and the two others I saw did the same thing.I will never buy anything but ATI from now on for race engines.

Yeap all 6 little dumb bolts were still tight! but it is pretty worn on the center....maybe i will take a video of it for you.....

Wow. I will check mine again, maybe I have been lucky. Next motor will have a different balancer.

Yes I would check it big time!!! here's a video....
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...1030163048.flv

Shoot send some copies to SFI they might be interested since they certified them!

This isn't the first PP balancer I've read about that's failed.
A couple of years ago I read on other forums that these balancers were plauged with problems.
I can't understand why pontiac vendors would even offer these in their product lines.

I have the street P-P (non SFI) on mine...at the moment. I got it from the Butler Boys and they said it was good to 6500.

this one is CAT products
 

well i had share of mine as well, but this one was CAT products SFI balancer !
from time to time it happens :(

http://www.hkmotorsportsdynoshop.com/

What the hell are we to do without spending a arm and leg for one... I even had a regular pioneer fail too and crack the keyway. but i think that was from the bolt coming loose?.. this one i used red loctite on the threads too... Harry what did u do about yours? did u try and get anything from cat for a new one?

My pro products damper fell apart after a couple dyno pulls.
I saw some on display at the local speed shop last week and asked the owner if he ever had any problems with them and he cursed them. He said all the other PP brand stuff is pretty decent but the balancers he had sold so far (mostly chev) were being returned right and left. This problem with the balancers may not have been true 3? years ago as back then I asked about them at Loper's Speed up in Phoenix that does a pretty good sales volume and they said so far they had not heard of any problems (ever hear that before?) assuming he was telling the truth I think the crappy ones must have hit the counters shortly after that. I got mine from Ace and he was pretty big on them, he avoids selling junk like all good vendors and I dont think he had any returned until mine so I guess decent products can sometimes go downhill.

This is what i just sent to their customer service dept....

I bought one of your SFI Rated pontiac balancers a while back
and i found the outer ring today to be completely dislodged from the inner ring on my crankshaft!! am not happy with this at all!! What are you going to do to compensate me for this! These are a terrible product! Could have ruined my engine!! please advise..
thanks!

just spend the money and get a top quality balancer, stop taking chances to save a few bucks or else you'll be building a whole motor

I have the same one here, think i paid $60.00 for it. I have it hanging on the wall, it looks nice but i am afraid to install it on any engine as i have seen several pics of these things after they came apart. These engines are too darn expensive to risk using these balancers.

Yep, I have the PP Street/Strip dampner on my 400 now! I thought my timing issues were from a worn out HEI BUT now I need to re-evaluate BIG TIME! Another "RED FLAG" this year for the first time I have thrown my alternator belt twice! Never before have I had an issue! I'm checking mine ASAP! JD

Thats BS. I always figured if it has a SFI Rating on it, it should be safe. From
grandville455's previous posts, he was not spinning his engine to crazy RPM's and should have felt safe using this part. It would be nice if all racers could use billet this and Jesel that, but that is not reality.

And just how does one determine WHAT is a top quality product? all we can do is buy something and hope for the best. Expensive aftermarket parts are like Forest Gump's box of chocolates. You never know what you might get. (screwed maybe?)

example: yesterday I looked at two new TITAN oil pumps. supposed to be good right?
they were disassembled on the bench. The internal clearances were twice what titan claimed right out of the box new. These two were supposedly hand picked and inspected replacements for one that had failed to supply oil during dyno pulls.

exactly! if they rate it to a certain rpm and put a sticker on it, it should be right! isnt that what nhra expects of us? then they give us a sticker for certian e.t cert chassis!... I shift at 5200! these things are junk! Doesnt matter if i am trying to save money or not this thing was still 145 bucks! thats not cheap in my eyes! they need to quit making these...what happened to quality.. geez the originals held up for how many yrs?

Made in China.

Need I say more?

We gave them the one thing we were good at, quality manufacturing, and they're F'ing it up.

We spoke on this five pages ago, and this is what I said back then~~>


#44 10-20-2008, 02:24 PM
SLICK1
Senior Chief Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 429

Exactly the same situation we had on my Buddies SBC Malibu, we had to send it back and demanded his money back! Put a stock balancer on in the mean time so he could
get the timing right and go racing! Sorry to say these should be avoided at all cost, and I don't like slammin products but this obviously can ruin someones motor, time, & hard earned cash because of a poorly designed product!
__________________

(here is the link to the topic)

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=577458

did u get your money back?

ATI for me.
I like saving money as much as the next guy but some thing you cant go cheap on. Pro products looks like most all their stuff is crap. :2cents:

All they would do was send a replacement...I just recieved it today. It has a 1 year warranty. Does anyone want to buy a NEW balancer??? It is in a new box and has the SFI sticker....come on anybody...

If the outer ring is rotating and the timing mark is off, apparently its easy enough to fix. From the second paragraph of Pro Products install sheet (complete pdf below)

"We suggest you line up the TDC mark of the damper with the timing tab before removal. After installing new damper, if marks don't line up, you will need to get an aftermarket bolt-on timing tab or possibly make a custom one for your application."

So if the PP damper is not indexed correctly just move the timing tab and all will be well ? WTF!!!

I'm looking for a quality balancer right now.......not afraid to spend some money on it, but it seems to me to spend $400 on a ATI balancer and then to have to modify my crank pulley cuz the ATI balancer is configured for a 3 bolt pulley just ain't right.........

Am I missing something? Please correct me if I'm wrong, or suggestions for a quality balancer?

Are the newer $50 GM ones any good since they discontinued the old P/N 477681 $125 piece?

BHJ??

Help!

i have a new pp balancer on the shelf too, got it from sdperf. now iam thinking i should have put it on the " junk from the garge" list of things to put on ebay a few weeks ago. at least it was only 60 bucks

I bought a fluid damper here is the part # on summit 650401 I've had this thing on my motor for 2 years with rpms @ 6600 with no problems.It pays to spend the money.

Buy the ATI and be done with it. I've had mine on the car for around 8 years. Never a problem. You don't hear of problems with ATI balancers. Use a BBC pulley and you are in business. If you go drilling the stock pulleys to fit they tend to crack and come apart. There are juist some things you don't want to cheap out on, the balancer being one of them.

Summit SFI Pro/Race Not to be Confused with PP POS, 230$ Very nice piece 4-bolt Bolt On No Mods, Splined hub and Ring, Very Nice Piece, Butler used one on their 467 EMC engine as well, FWIW

One the ATI there is like 5 different models wit 2 or 3 rings and steel or Alum Shell, Which model are most of you using?

Damper
 

Fluidampr, one piece outer shell can't come apart. Running one in my car now for 3 years, put one on my new motor.

SFI means it has to be good. ;)

I would run a stock Pontiac before that POS. Take an ATI balancer apart. They are awesome.

Oh Sh!t!! I put one of those on my Dad's engine. When I was timing the distributor, the TDC mark wasn't even close, had to put a tape on timing mark!! Now what do I do?

I would get it off there asap Bill!!

i run stock dampers..thats what the cranktrain calls for..spun big rpms many times, no failures of cranks or hubs..sfi is just another ploy to take your money and control you...screw sfi in my book..

if aftermarket assembly, buy the best you can find..crank vibes hurt

I have one of those as well; it is holding up so far.

I'd still box it up and ship it to SFI and ask how they could have certified this!

Skip do u have a address? I would be willing to do so or atleast call them!

I "dunno" what brand Balancer I gots. all I know is my SFI balancer was made in Australia, and that it either may have been a 1-off "production run" or they raised their price after the production run. Far as I know it is still a superb balancer, that I cannot get again.

If it was made in Australia it is probably a Romac I think you can still get them just more costly than PP.
Ken

I've never and will never use a Chinese sfi damper, my buddy who owns the dyno we test on has had more then one failure on they dyno, one came apart and blew a hole right through the dyno sell door, pieces scattered throughout the shop which could have killed someone.

We do sell and have used a lot of the Professional Products street balancers with no issues other then the timing scale is not accurate (didn't realize this till recently, Thanks Rich), so use a timing light with an advance dial for setting total timing. For an sfi unit the Australian made Power Bond units have worked well for us with no issues to date, I've had way to many BHJ's spin the inertia ring, I like the ATI's also but just make sure you have the pulley bolts in place and tight even if you aren't running a pulley, I learned that one the hard way!! I acquired a new one in a trade deal years ago with no instructions, I loctited the small bolts in place but they all sheared off at 7000rpm on the dyno, we all ducked!!! but it dropped in the tray and just spun till it stopped.

I think the whole sfi deal is a scam, we use the chinese sfi flexplates in mild applications as a stock replacement part but anything making big power and requiring sfi gets a TCI flexplate.

Use to think sfi meant it was a good piece, not anymore!

dyno cell, need more sleep!!!

Dave Bisschop : my BHJ sfi balancer that i purchaced from you guys ,when you were down here in Orange Ca. in 98/99 is still goin goin goin and goin OK like the energiser batterys with no problem on my race engine 600rwhp:D
(with crank trigger on it as well)

www.HKMotorsportsDynoShop.com

Reference balancer
 

About a month ago i had a problem with a factory balancer it finally gave out broke from the key way. i purchased one of the pp balancers from ace brewer in california. i raced my car this past weekend we ran a best of 11.20 at 120 mph. My motor does not see anything over six grand i am a little nervous reference the balancer but i did call ace when all the contraversy involving the pp balancer came up. He did give me good news and if i have a problem he told me he would make it good. Ace if u are listening please state ur two cents. I am sure i am not the only one on this boat. Later.

Punisher#1 has had two BHJ's spin the inertia ring. Pontiac Dude also had the same issue with his as well.

Arrgghh I have one of those PPsfi too on my new IA2 motor. I bought that thing a while back for my new motor not knowing these things.

Well now I guess I will go out and find me a new balancer before I have problems and throw the thing in the rest of the pile of stuff I paid money for that I can use or lost in.

Good thing I have not put good and hard time on it yet. With all the money on that motor I cannot take the chance hell what's another 400 bucks anyway? I didn't need to pay all of my property taxes anyway this month.

What a bitch...

I have never had a problem with any of the street balancers at all! We dyno ALOT of motors here. And I have yet to see a problem. I have had 2 SFI balancers come back. I made good on both of them. Every now and then you can have a problem with ANY part. It just happens.

PP usualy will make good. And as Dave B. mentioned. I too have sheered the bolts on my ATI. Does that make it junk??? Hell no. Things happen even with the best made products.

JMHO.


Ace