VW TDI into a 70-73 TA clone
 

I have given some thought to this idea, and I know many will say are you hitting the crack pipe!! my plans are to take a VW TDI and installing it into a 70-73 TA clone. the way I have it figured it will be one of the most fuel efficient TA's on the road. no it will not be a power house but it would make a great daily driver. most will say the weight is going to kill the fuel mileage, well a jetta weighs in @ 3300#'s, and a Pontiac with that little 4 cyl I figure will weigh in about 3700#'s tops. besides with the diesel technology out there you would be surprised how much power you are able to make with that little diesel. OK lets hear all of the :doh:

Its the worst idea I've heard in a while.

Why ??? Why buy a muscle car and worry about Fuel economy ?
Sell your car and get a ricer !

why not have the best of both worlds? a nice looking car & good fuel economy. it's not like it's going to be a race car, it would be a daily driver. hell it would probably out run some of the 301 powered "muscle cars" Pontiac produced.

You might want to consider keeping it forever, because it will be completely unmarketable in that form.

i like thinking about weird ideas, but if you are capable of that swap; some other ideas i like a bit better.... (my 2 cents - others will also hate these alternatives)

- wait for the new duramax motor to come out this year and put that in
- install an LS3 or some kind of equivalent and get 30 mpg
- CNG conversion, or some other alternative fuel
- consider a second car for fuel efficiency

I agree with others, there are better choices that make more sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but some Quad 4 GM motors made 200+ HP, and got real good mileage. A better swap.

Also, if you put a small motor in a muscle car, you are going to constantly get picked off by ricers and punks (Same thing, I know) who will be looking to put another notch in their hair brush. Do you want to be responsible for having the youngest generation spit on classic cars? Don't do it.

well I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks outside the box. as for the D'max, it has already been done, & the cost factor is astronomical. as for the LS motor, I think you would be very hard pressed to 30 mpg with that body style car. we own a C5 & that does get over 30 mpg highway, but it has excellent aerodynamics. if & when I get my swamp buggy running I plan on running propane.

i'm not sure the new duramax has even been produced yet. will be out for 2010 model year for light duty trucks. it's a baby duramax that will be 4.5 liters, 72° bank angle, with exhaust & turbo in the valley where intake traditionally goes. smaller design that is supposed to drop right in where any LS motor can fit. this small version will only produce 520 ft# torque in stock form. this swap should be much easier than the 6.6, but i'm sure the motor will be very expensive.

i like the idea of swapping an M70 BMW V12. old 750il would get 28 mpg in a very heavy car.

AHHH that new D'max.

interesting thought, how are you going to package the drivetrain in the car. i've been thinking about some modern inline 4s for my mga, but getting one i like with a rwd config is near impossible.

to be honest I have only given the trans part minimal thought for 2 reasons, #1 I have about the best VW mechanic in the US around the corner from me & if there is something out there, he knows about it. #2 a friend of mine can make damn near anything in his shop, & he would love to make an adapter to go from the TDI to a rear wheel drive tranny, just to say he did it.

I drove one of those TDI's. They are quite powerful considering the weight of the car, size of the engine, and awesome fuel mileage! I remember being able to get rubber in most of the gears.

I say go for it. Alot of challenges and I preduct your biggest hurdle will be converting the engine to work with the rear wheel drive (tranny?).

And the Poncho is just a clone anyway, so your probably just yanking a boring base or Espirit model drivetrain.


I wanted to do a similiar project but using a 7.3 Powerstroke diesel. But they are a bit too big and heavy.

Seen a few Duramaxxes/Cummins 5.9 conversions; plus they have the potential to outrun many big blocks - .02

I think the Duramaxx is 850-900 lbs; so for a diesel its pretty light.

You should see mid 20's with an LS swap. The Bird will also likely be a bit lighter than 3700 pounds with the TDI or LS. I know guys are making real good power out of those 4 bangers in the new Cobalts SS's. The turbo'd ones, not the supercharged ones. Exhaust and tune away from 300WHP.

My vote is for LS swap, even if its a 5.3.

xbird - tale a look at the RWD Sky's and Solstices.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...s_express.html :eek::eek:

trick but I like this better.

http://www.18to1.com/

Can't argue there. 10 sec car getting 35 mpg. Im shooting for 20 mpg with the F350 on my next roadtrip to FL.

Brad,
Just don't forget to put Standadyne Fuel Additive in the tank or you'll be buying new
HEUI injectors at $2800 a set.

the 3 litre Jeep diesel puts out good power fro the displacement, possible best, the new twin turbo toyota 4.5 litre diesel in the new landcruiser also a good motor, might be the lexus motor in the US.

I'm going to agree with that statement.
I owned a Jetta TDi for a few years, great car, awesome gas mileage, 45mpg. All I can say is good luck on the conversion...:rolleyes:

Before I threw in the new crate engine I took the old 7.3s injectors and pump to have them checked. Ive been using Howes for years, they said that would work fine. I mainly use them because its more widely avabile where Im at.
Unless youve heard anything different ?

Mash, unfortunately here in the US we dont have nearly all the automotive/light truck choices that you guys do.

I read Sarah Palin owns one of those.

Brad,
The problem is most diesel shop don't have the equipment to tear-down the HEUIs
for inspection. The shops with an HI2000 or equivilent are fairly hard to find. There
are only 5 in the Indiana-Kentucky area. You should have 7 AD injectors and 1 AE
or Cackle injector. The biggest problem with all HEUIs is nozzle spring breakage. The
higher power PowerStroke injectors are also hard on the intensifier pistons and injector
tips. They erode both badly. The fuel pump is the tried and true DB4.Keep clean fuel
in it (and fuel additive) these things will last forever. Keep a close eye on the Rexroth
high-pressure oil pump. Without that, the engine WILL NOT FIRE!!

You have a listings for any of these shops ? I do make it down to Louisville & Paducah every so often.

That's the problem with these newer diesels: all the pollution equipment and the engine management is really expensive to repair if it acts up.

Wait until next year when the new 1/2 ton pickup diesels come out. 300 hp and 400+ lbs of torque. At least it will be all GM. the vw engine isn't a bad one, but it isn't near as good as say a Duramax or the Benz diesel. Don't forget the 4 cyl. version of the Cummins in Dodge pickups either. With the turbo and updated injection off the Cummins 6 cyl., They will make around 350 hp and get mid 20's in a truck, so in a car, that would be even better than the VW eng. Now if you want a 10 second diesel powered car, gets mid 20's mpg, no problem, I know what it takes.:D

This truck got 21 mpg and is a 9 second truck;

Byron, I think I saw that in a magazine a while back, I have a buddy with a rust free 67 small back window, maybe when used Duramaxxes start getting more common in wrecking yards -

455Grandville, yes you have seen it in serveral magazines. SEptember 2007 issue's of Diesel World and Diesel Power magazines, (Cover of Diesel Power), then I know this past summer an issue of Street Truck. I know Chris told me there is more the Truck has been in, but I have those issues of those 3. All three took thier pictures at the May 2007 Las Vegas race. That was the weekend we broke the trans on saturday afternoon, took it out, drove to Steve Cole's shop, TTS (Also known as The Turbo Shop) Steve rebuilt it, and we drove (flew low!) back to Vegas (got back about 7:30am Sunday) and put it in. Chris went out and then won the class later Sunday. That was a long Saturday! It's a great piece of work and craftsmanship.

I'd like to tear into a Duramaxx, see the internals. I wasn't crazy about the aluminum heads when they came out, but after driving a new one I was impressed.
I'd like to build a 7.3, they are very rugged engines, but they don't seem to have the aftermarket support that the Duramaxx & Cummins do.

Brad, You are right, the 7.3 Ford/International doesn't have the aftermarket support the others do. This is mostly because just as the Diesel thing was really starting to grow, Ford went to the 6. oh no and the aftermarket thought, why spend the money tooling up for the by gone engine when the 6. oh no will be the new one of choice. Of course no one knew how big of a disaster the 6 oh no would be! I know one company just came out with some parts they was working on and quit when Ford made the announcement the 6 oh no was coming. Am I too hardcore on the shoeleather express 6 oh no? (I'll just use the 2003 F350 6 oh no I had as my point of reference!)

Earlier and back to topic, the VW diesel is a dependible little diesel, but I wouldn't put it in a T/A clone or waste a Firebird on one! A nice diesel coming out if it's reliable might be the 2010 1/2 ton pickup diesel. It wouldn't weight more than a Pontiac V8 and still give great mpg with over 300 hp.

From what I understand most of the 6.0 issues were the engines monitoring system and as you mentioned the proper training repairing them, as you mentioned about the injector issues you had ? I think they also turned the engine up a little high when it was installed in pickups. I woldn't want to buy a 6.4, it's been out one year and already being chopped next year.





I know a guy in St Louis that installing a newer TDI VW in a older 80s VW Caddy (Rabbit pickup)
He said its bolt in deal, and you use the old injection pump to avoid all the electronics.
Good engine for a swap in something smaller, but not somthing for a T/A.
The new Duramaxx V6 should be interesting; having the exhaust exit on the intake side makes sense for packaging a turbo.
Biggest problem with all these new diesels is the emissions they have to meet, they are getting too complex and seem to act up alot more.

The 6.0 Ford's have turbo issues among other things.

If you're after economy shove a 6.2 in it with 700r4 and a 2 series gearset and pull 30 mpg all day long. The one in my 78 k20 4x4 with 4:10's is pulling 22+ with a straight 4spd and a 6200# curb weight. It's been dependable as hell. I'm thinking of throwing an OD trans behind it.

Mike

Mike, did any 6.2 or 6.5s have a steel crank ? :confused:

save the bird for a weekend toy where mpg doesn't matter.
I volunteer as a member for the firing squad

I'm thinking the later Turbo'd ones may have. The early one's like mine didn't which is why I don't have a banks kit on mine.

Mike