Gonna lift body of frame...
 

First, "just" thought I'd pull drivetrain to replace gaskets, tranny work, etc.
So I decided to remove fenders, rad, front clip.

I need welding on the frame. (Bend area by all 4 wheels are bad)

So now I'm thinking why not lift body, roll out frame?
I am not a mechanic, mechanical engineer, not a mechanic. :D

Am I way in over my head or if I brace the body (convert) with interior out, is it REALLY a big job. Besides releasing mounts, lines, electrical how bad is it?

How bad is it putting it BACK??? She really needs welding on the frame.

Thanks

it doesnt matter how bad it is, just look at it as a learning experience. Removing the frame isnt hard, the only lines you need to remove are the brake lines to the master cylinder. You will also have to disconnect the Ebrake and cables from the body, everything else stays on the frame . I wouldnt take the frame off though unless you have the money to keep going on the project, because if you run out of time or money that frame may not get back on that car for 20 years, iv seen it happen.The moral of the story is dont bite off more than you can chew at once!

When I did a frame off on my 67 GTO I made some saw horses out of 4x4s. Just tall enough to clear and legs wider than wheels. Four of us where able to lift body and put it back on. Those saw horses have been handy for other pojects also. Good Luck

I used the same principle as beemegary except I did it by myself using an engine hoist and strap to lift one end at a time.

The worst part of the job will be removing the body mount bolts. Most likely at least a couple will break or the cage nuts will spin. Then you have to do some cutting.

Don

a word of advise, Id keep the top up & latched. I would keep the doors closed & the windows down & NEVER open the doors when the body is off the frame. CROKSTER i think is the name did a thread on how to lift the body off with an engine hoist & a 4x4.
Find that thread, & the rest is easy. I can also say, when you get this deep there is no turning back... the more you dive in the more you will find areas that need more attention, just be prepared to fix more than you thought & spend more than you thought.......

Buddy dropped by Saturday night for a drink and when he saw the car he said the same thing! "Seems you've passed the point of no return!"

The dedicated "saw-horses" sounds like a good idea. Carpentry is my thing; just learning metal work.

Keeping the doors closed and top up: will I still need to brace the body?
If I run 2x6's on both sides of the car like a "joist" to jack on, should that be sufficient?

There is no where to get a powder-coat around here. What is the finish alternative?

If you are a mechanical engineer then you shouldn't have any problem...

;)

All good advice here; just a couple minor comments:

a) Yes - a 2x6 makes a good "joist". I had a couple that were left over from the kids' playscape and that's what I used when I took the body off my Chevelle. I lifted the body using two floor jacks (one on each side of the 2x6), then lifting one end of the car at a time.

I narrowed the frame on my car while I was doing this, so I had the body on and off about 15 times as I was fabricating/making clearance.

b) Also - if you have a couple bare wheels (wheels with no tires on them) you can bolt that to the axle in place of tire/wheel assemblies. That will make the frame lower and you can roll it in and out without having to get the body up so high.

The bare wheels sounds like an idea.
I have the old tires and wheels that came with the car. If I remove the tires, I could support the body all around, install wheels only and block the frame. Remove body mounts and then lower frame by removing blocking. Then roll frame out the door!

Sounds way too easy!:D

I,too,have removed my convert body from the frame using an engine hoist and floor jacks,then had the body put on my trailer using 2 4x4's and 4 ex-football players that owed thier former coach a favor.LOL.doors were off but car is braced from hinges to quarter column and cross-wise with home-made braces.Try and squirt the body mount bolts with penetrant repeatedly before you attempt to remove them,this may help.I had three out of i think 14 give me a problem.For an alternative finish to powder coat,get some black epoxy primer at 50-60 gloss if you can at your auto paint store,and put on 2-3 coats IMMEDIATELY after sandblasting the frame.on the frame,make sure the blaster uses sand,and get a "near-white"blast,not a "brush-blast",your blaster will know what that means.If you can't find black epoxy at the right gloss, the use epoxy primer and recoat with a 2K urethane "chassis black"type product.If you are gouing to use the 2k chassis black,do not skip the epoxy primer underneath.If it's high quality epoxy,it will hold up as good and alot of times BETTER than powder coat for stone-chip and corrosion.I KNOW there are alot of people that will disagree with my last statement,but I have inspected literally hundreds of salt-fog and gravel-o-meter panels and reams of test data to support my case.Good luck.

Definitely brace across the doors front-to-back and side-to-side.

George

Bracing will be done!

"Salt-Fog" Paint Guy?..... So you've been to Newfoundland?:D

I just finished removing the 14 body to frame bolts on my '64 Tempest. Of the 14, only 1 unscrewed without shearing off. In fact, some were so rusted the bolts were necked down to about 1/8 in. dia.

I have also just purchased four 12 ton (yes, 12 TON) jack stands to sit the body down on. A 4X4 will just fit comfortably into the notch of the jack stand head and they raise to between 22 and 30 in.. Should work just fine. I will be using my engine hoist to lift one end of the body at a time and will remove the rear wheels if necessary to roll the frame out from under.

Phil

almost went to Newfoundland once...entered a contest where first prize was a 1 week vacation to Newfoundland....2nd prize was 2 weeks!3rd prize...you know where this is going... Actually would love to go there..heard there are lots of good "motorcycling" roads. On a serious note:a salt-fog cabinet(sometimes called salt-spray cabinet)is an enclosed chamber,that has a 5% salt solution(atomized'hence the "fog"designation)pumped into it.Painted Test panels are scribed to bare metal,then inserted into the cabinet at a 15* angle from perpendicular to give the salt solution a chance to collect on the surface.Panels are periodically inspected for surface corrosion,corrosion creepage(under the scribe)and blistering.Amount of surface corrosion,creepage and the size of the blisters(if any)are measured and used to establish a "salt-fog" rating for that particular primer or paint.Hope this helps.

Yeah, fog-cabinet.. i.e my driveway. See Avatar! (Atlantic Ocean)

14 BODY BOLTS! :eek:
Gonna lose whatever religion I have left on this project.

Drove the car this past summer like a grandmother for fear of the chassis.
That's not why I bought it so she's coming off!

It's amazing how hard it is to find anyone willing to do a bit of welding.

Get a good welder and learn yourself, you'll be way ahead even if you spend $1000 on the welding rig. I have a Miller 135 110V unit with an auto-darkening helmet. I taught myself MIG and performed all repairs on my car.

If I can do it, anyone can.

hoist
 

I used an engine hoist when I did mine. It worked pretty good, but your floors should be pretty solid before you try it. Mine is a hard top but i still braced the door openings.

Hi V1,

I am in the same spot (although this is the 2nd go round for me). Hopefully the last for this car, LOL!

If you are good at carpentry, you may want to consider building a body-cart. I did mine out of 4x4's and 2x4's. I will be taking the body off (knock on wood - or my noggin!) tomorrow. My body-mount bolts came out fine (they are only 16-17 years old and have not seen winter).

I am using two (2) engine hoists. We also made the supports for the body-cart like a 'truss' so it would support the car, and I can work under it. Body cart is on 10" rubber wheel/casters (rated at 400lb's each). The truss ensures that the load is transferred over to the 4x4 posts. There is also an opening at one end to allow someone to work underneath (and to exit). We have also gusseted the 'open-end' to prevent shear/spread of the legs (the wheels will also be 'chocked' when we work under it, with 1 engine hoist connected to the block/tackle as a redundant safety measure).

I am not a carpenter, but paid a good friend to put it together based on an example I saw on Chevelle-Tech (just improved it).

I was going to build an auto-rotisserie (and had bought the plans off of e-Bay). The plans were great, but it was a project in itself, and I felt it was over the top for what I needed. Also, my car has already been sandblasted/primed/seam-sealed/painted underneath. Only trying to get to a more correct 'chassis' black underneath. Also, I didn't like that the rotisserie does not support the car from underneath (at structural points). My car is solid, but it could still sag when separated.

Hopefully I can post some pics once we have the body-cart fully assembled (it is ready to go as of this evening) - limited space means I have to hold off final assembly until the 'separation' of car and frame.

Best of luck,
Brian
'72 GTO

I've arc welded in the past and have seriously thought about taking it on but time is limited for me over the next few months plus the Pontiac is in the "house" garage as I have a RV and Packard in the "lower" garage so welding in the "house" is not an option.

I'd prefer to do it myself but don't see being able to.

Post some pics of your body-cart when possible GTO406.

It's a little intimidating to see the car lying in pieces!:D

I agree with gto406, if your good at carpentry build a body dolly so you can wheel the body outside in case you need to remove undercoating/sandblast. When I removed my conv. body from the frame I used 2 engine hoists and raised it evenly. I took the conv top frame off but left the doors on. I also made a brace from 2x4 that went from the firewall to the rear centered over the trans tunnel. I temporarily set the car on 2x10's and rolled the frame out. Then rolled the dolly under the body, reattached the hoists and set the body on the dolly. I built the dolly high enough so when the car was on it would just fit under my garage door opening. Like others have said, once you get started it ends up being more work than what you anticipated. Be prepared and put your body on something that can be moved around in case you want to work on the body outside.

Many thanks ANDYA,

Note, due to the frigid temps (and some other 'teething' issues - getting the car ready last night) we will be postponing the 'lift-off' until Saturday - when we have more time (i.e. the suspects involved are not working) and the weather will be a little warmer.

Last night (with windchill) the temp at 12-midnight was somewhere around -19C (approx. -2deg-F for the imperial folks). Was supposed to get even colder this evening.

Pics will hopefully be forthcoming. I have also created a 'lift-off' procedure in OpenOffice (which I will be tweaking). If anyone wants or needs that, I am happy to send it along.

Cheers.

Please send along the procedure when ready.

Equally cold here tonight -13C. Won't be venturing into the garage tonight.... maybe.;)

FWIW,I bought a cheap($175)but sturdy used trailer from a buddy to move my convt body around on,can modify it to suit my needs,and will probably sell it when I'm done and make money on it.It seems like there is always someone in the neighborhood selling a used trailer.Just an idea that works for me.BTW,-2F is cold?It was -25F last night in Mpls,WAY colder than that "up north".

We managed to get the body off the frame this past Saturday. Pics may be found here:

http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/b...400_album/gto/

V1, PM me your contact info and I can send you the lift-procedure. I have a few tweaks I have to make to it (but it worked very well).

Cheers,
Brian
'72 GTO.

when you get done you will wonder why you didnt do it sooner.I did it and there is a sense of pride when you finish if you redo the complete build and you can do everything right
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2419/...038dbc61_o.jpg

Now that I'm committed to doing it, it seems to be the only way to go.

Or I'll be committed.

gto406,
Did you only lift the front?, and the rear pivoted on the 4x4 that was attached to the wall? I have never seen anyone do it that way, but it obviously works. Thanks for the pics.

Hello Tempest,

Your most welcome. Note that we lifted both the front and the rear using a total of two (2) engine hoists. The 4x4 was actually bolted to the bumper brackets on the back of the car and we attached an 8500 lb tow-strap (with hooks on each end) to the eyelet bolts on the 4x4 rear-bumper mounting support. The middle was then used as a basis for attaching to the rear-engine hoist (which was positioned off to the side - on the passenger side).

Note that by keeping both engine hoists on one side, we were able to work the other side with jacks, etc.

I do have a written procedure, if anyone wants it. Just send me a PM with your email, and I am happy to send it along.

Good to see other Canadian Pontiac fans - esp. those working on their cars!

Cheers,
Brian
'72 GTO.

OK, I'm going out to buy a welder!

But talk to me like I'm in grade 5...
What kind of welder do I need for body repairs? I have someone to do the frame repairs.
TIG?
:confused:

MIG, with gas is all you should need.

I bought mine 20 years ago, and has sufficed for every thing including fabbing up a frame receiver hitch to pull a 20' boat.

You will need advice as to what the best one is now a days. Advise I would give is to buy it where you can receive a few classes on how to use it properly.
Charles

I have found oxy. ace. gas welder is much easier and cheaper for body repair,plus you can heat up stuck bolts bendable metal or cut with just a tip change, You have to spend alot ($1000) to get a decent mig to weld lower currents needed for auto body

Found a MIG welder here for $199 with inert gas setup.
220 or 110 Volts.

You've been warned :rolleyes: but if you gotta,hook it up with 220 for a better duty cycle

.....

The area you are working on in the thumbnail is the same area I have rot.

The welder is a Lincoln Electric. Tried it yesterday, seemed pretty good, clean weld and fast.

My concern (and at the risk of sounding stupid) is after joining two pieces of panel, how does one grind smooth the weld without "digging" into the panel itself? You can't hold a grinding wheel "flat" against the weld; it's going to be at some angle???

:confused:

Should you weld from the "good" side or the back of the pieces???

Most use angle grinder, hold at 45 degree to weld and lightly grind the weld down, little at time, you don't want to put heat into it. Also wear safety goggles and mask, you don't want to be breathing it. After you get that down, use a die grinder with 1-1/2 in. dia. sanding buttons to finish off to metal surface. You will accidently nick into surrounding surfaces but you will be filling with body filler to take care of seam anyway and smooth out. One thing you don't want is the surface to end up sticking out beyond the normal body line, as it will show up. Better slightly low so it can be filled with mud.

Another thing you will want to do is get a couple scrap pcs of the same gage material and practice welding on them to get your heat and wire speed correct. You can also weld a seam and bend it to check for strength. Shouldn't break where weld is or your too cold. You can also cut across that weld and check for penetration of the weld.

As far as welding on the front side or back side if you butting the pcs. together it shouldn't matter, as you should be penetrating all the way thru.
Practice makes perfect!

Very good method/suggestion

Thanks 69customs.

Time to get at it!