sand blasted
 

OK guys I want ask the board too, what's going with my motor? I got pics going to butler and machine shop. On left bank on the lower part pistons it looks like they have been sand blasted or frosted. on the right bank it's on the top, but not as bad. The heads look the same way. The right has more oil and deposit than the left. To me it looks like more dentation than possible the piston hitting the head.

This motor is a 497 4.5 stroke
13.25 cr .040 comnetic head gaskets
@ .700 solid roller 320 e-heads
1050 hp methonal bone stock
148 jets with ext.
35 total timing

Now at the begining of the season I had a miss several times before my new (used) elec. shift hit 2nd & 3rd. It took serval month's before figuring out it wasn't the shifter and the last thing I replace was my 7al. I do use top lube but not as much as they recommend.

What in world do the plugs look like!

Looks like its hitting to me - what is deck and head gasket numbers and what kind of rod ??

The plugs really don't look that bad, they have med tan color. But there not all white like some methonal motors. I will get pictures of the plugs. The pictures of the motor might not be tyhe best because of the lighting. The deck and head gasket numbers I will have to get. The rods are 6.8. To me it seem that the head gaskets were real oily. The left more than the right. The left head I had to take the head studs out to get the head off. It was like a vac lock. oil going half way up the stud. When I bought these cometic head I asked the how to install them .They said to put them on dry. When I told Jim Butler he told to coat them with copper coat a couple times. I put them on dry. I did get a reply by Jim on these pics and he said it didn't look to bad. Just look at the bearing and top ring and look for damages. I'm still feaking out about this because these were brand new pistons. About 150 laps. Not the whole piston is like this, it's the oil and dust on top of the piston that makes like the whole top of the had detation. But it is only the top edge on one blank and bottom edge on the other.

First. Looks like a dome? What is your deck height? You need to know that first.

What rods?

Yes a sandblast type finish is more to a detonation setup.

My racing partner uses cometics and coats them. I would like to see a fire slot to help the flame get across the dome. Alunimum or steel rods?

The rods are 6.8 eagles. Head gasket number is a bulter # com-h1702spe040s. .040 thick. I will try to get the deck height numbers.These are Ross domes 13.25 and the whole piston does come out of the head. the head gasket was setup for it to.

Steel rods.

as you described it the pistons on oposite side of the engine have damage on different sides - that tells me that thrust load is pushing one side of the piston up to highe and making contact just enough to brinell the surface of head and piston I bet a .005 thicker head gasket would fix it all -

Curt what do you like to see in Piston to valve in a steel rod motor?

I did call about the head gasket thickness and the next size up would be .050. I agree with the piston having different marks on the opposite sides I think could be hitting. The only thing is that I would thought it would be shiny.

There is one thing I didn't quite understand about this motor. After I got the miss gone. This motor don't like to be ran at high rpm. 6300 it made it's best e.t But this thing would go to 7000 with no problem. I thinking it is because of the stroke and heads, but maybe that for another thread. Right now I'm trying to figure out the pistons.
Keith

piston to head - .040 -with steel rods and remember the pistons rock in the bore so check then pushed down on one side and up on the other - piston to valve can be .080 but .100 or .120 is safer

These are min.. .060 intake/.090 exhaust

But like to use .090 intake/.120 exhaust for a safety factor and over extended valve spring use before replacing. ;)

The thing is it's not the valves that are hitting, it's the quench area of the pistons that are hitting. The valves are fine. Like cgeise is saying left side bottom is hitting, causing the right side top to rock and hit the top. When I started with this block and a set of flat top trw pistons I wanted zero deck height. They said it was already under they would straighten both side. When I put this new rotating assemible in it, butlers got done repairing my heads and the machine shop got done putting the short block together.Both exchange spec and came up with the size heads gasket I needed. I just threw thing together, thinking they had it right. Wrong. I still going to tear this down check the bearings.

You won't know anything till you check your deck height. Without that number you are guessing as what happened.
Unless you tear apart on a regular racing class basis, You need .040 (for proper quench) to be safe from piston to head.

You're right on that, everything has to get tore down and deck height check. When I can see the piston sticking out the hole atleast 1 to .002 or more, and a .040 head gasket. I should of double check there work, that's what happens when I get lazy and Assume somebody's work.

He mentioned earlier that the piston was actually about .004 out of the hole. With a .040 head gasket it should be at minumum .036. When I had a piston just touching the head is had a shiny spot on the piston and on the head chamber. It wasn't sandblasted looking like his.

badgto, I see that you have the "421" hole in the head but not the block, did the heads come that way or did you drill the hole? If you did drill the hole is there some reason you did not drill the block. Thanks for the information.......Tom

Tom I never heard of a 421 hole, I even had one. They must have extra water passages. These heads came directly straight butlers like that and the block is 71' 455. I guess I never paid attention to it before. Is something could be hurting me or help cooling. I did find out the piston was coming out the heads .016 and with a .040 head gasket is way we were hitting. I've taken the pistons out the rings and piston look fine. The marks on the pistons are so fine you can't feel them or see any damage. Keith

badgto, I just removed the E-heads from Amy's 463 and they have the "421" coolant hole also. Her E-heads were done by Rinno Racing before she bought them. I am thinking that all E-heads from Edelbrock must have them in case a customer would want to use them on a 421. The coolant hole I am talking about is located right above the center, bottom head bolt/stud. It is about 3/8" dia. If you have a Felpro head gasket you will see the small hole I am talking about. Steve Barcek(sp) swears by this for cooling a Pontiac engine. He said that all engines he builds use it..Tom

My 428 block has that hole. I guess it was added at one time. That hole is the one I that I had trouble with water filling my oil pan from a bad gasket seal. Is it needed in a race application or should it be plugged?

Probird, I feel that anything you can do to help cool the center of # 4/6 and # 3/5 cylinders in any use of the engine is good. That being said, I am going to drill the block for the hole in the 463 with the E-heads that has the hole in them and see what happens. We have raced this engine for 3 years so I will have a "before and after" comparision.