My car and several questions
 

Alright guys, here's my car.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/125_2534.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...122_2261-1.jpg

Its an '80 T/A with a D1sc procharger on it. This is how it looked around the summer of 2005ish. I built all the brackets myself; they are dual 3/4" aluminum plate with five bolts holding it to the head.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/122_2211.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...122_2214-1.jpg

The motor was a pretty much stock '76 400 with 4x heads (around 8:1 compression) a performer intake, cheap dynomax headers, a comp cams XE262, and the procharger huffing in 8lbs of boost. It ran great for what it was and I really enjoyed the car but then the motor started knocking. Upon disassembly I found this:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/129_2929.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/129_2933.jpg

I had just become a victim of the dreaded thin main web 400 blocks! At this point in time I still had lots of interest in the car, and not only did I decide to make it faster but at the same time I decided to move the motor back six inches, seem weld the subframe, replace the bolt in subframe connectors with custom weld-ins, better brakes, better suspension geometry, custom front and rear motor plates, and the list goes on and on.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0273.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0275.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_3614.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0308.jpg

It seemed as if the project would never come to an end; I had bitten off more than I could chew, I ended up concentrating more on college, got a serious girlfriend and got into off roading and four wheel drive trucks:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...uckflex002.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...uckflex005.jpg

If you're still with me, here comes the questions. My car has been sitting for so long and I desperately want to get it running again. The problem is I don't have much time or money. I have a 71 400 block and N crank that I was planning on an all out effort on: 260cfm d ports, aluminum rods, splayed mains, filled block, and around 15lbs of boost to try and make as close to 750hp on pump gas as I can. Trouble is I just don't have the money right now.

So the new plan is to get the car running as cheap as possible so that I can at least drive it. I picked up a 76 455 with 70,000 original miles on it out of a grandville station wagon (dude bought it for demo-derby, I know...sad!) locally for a very reasonable price.

This 455 is complete from top to bottom, including the factory 6h-6 heads which are said to amount to around 7.5:1 compression. I want to continue to run the blower on this motor with around 8lbs of boost and I was thinking a better option would be to run the heads off my previous 400 motor.

These heads are 4x 4h's, they have 2.11/1.66 valves, screw in studs, and come in right around 98cc's. From my calculations this should give me right around a 9:1 compression ratio- a lot for a blower motor I know, but also remember I'm not looking for max performance out of this thing, I just want to be able to drive it around again. My distributor is set up for about 36 degrees of total timing, with 12 degrees initial all in by around 2400. I am also running a MSD 6btm, so I can always dial it back a bit if need be.

Pertinent to this post is also my aquisition of an intercooler which I bought from Brad Spidel on this very board. It has 3.5" ins and outs, is 4" thick, 17" tall and around 34" wide.

I am also in need of a cam for this swap, and the same time I purchased the intercooler from Spidel I also purchased a cam it is a monster and probably way too much for my combo- its got 251/263 duration at .050, .530/.556 lift, and has a 114 lobe separation.

So to recap here are my plans: stock '76 455 bottom end, I plan of checking the bearing clearances and replacing the oil pump. Changing valve springs and swapping on my previous motor's 4x heads, Spidel's nasty camshaft, an old torker intake, and my procharger setup running 8lbs of intercooled boost.

So how does this sound to everyone? Will it run without being gutless down low? I know this is far from an ideal setup, but remember, I'm trying to use what I have as I really don't have a lot of time or especially money.

The car also has a richmond five speed and 3.08 rear and will probably come in at aroun9 3600-3700lbs.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions!
Later,
James

Nice. I like everything but your gear shifter handle =]
Sounds rather similar to my situation and whatnot. New girlfriends can be hell on hobbies. And similar to my setup. I'm moving to a 461 with a 5spd
My girl doesn't know what she's in for...when warm weather hits. I"ll disappear with the car for quite a while

Where ya from?


Anyway, I'm thinking that cam is too large for your needs. Race or street car? SPidels cam is probalby designed for high flowing heads, race application?
The 4X heads might not be as bad as you think. If it's a stock 455, the pistons are probably down in the hole .020 or so, so your compression won't really be 9-1. Might be closer to 8.5-1. Possible to get some larger head gaskets?
I think i'd rather see the really low compression heads. They'd give room to turn up the boost and play around with it. Shave those 6H's if you don't want to find other heads
Of course, heads with chambers that large are easy to find and pretty damn cheap. Sell your other two pair and buy a set with chambers around 100+cc?
#66 heads, for example?

If i were you, I'd call butler and have them spec you a cam. Or, any of the other builders helping here - travis....P-Dude
They'll charge you a reasonably nominal fee to have a cam that will be tailored to your setup. Comp cams will custom grind you a cam based on their specs
$200 or less for a custom cam...would probably be the best $$ you spent, and you can sell Spidel's cam to help recuperate the cost?

Baron,
First off, love your car. I am from Chattanooga, TN. Most people either love or hate my shifter handle; the grip is off of a Ruger Redhawk Super .44. I wanted little kids to look in the window and be afraid; the button on the top runs the line lock. I really like your exhaust coming out of the fender, btw.

You are right on my final compression ratio, I had accounted for the pistons being in the hole some, but I really didn't have much of an idea how far they'd be down; guess I'll have to pull a head for an accurate measurement.

So lets just assume with the head swap my compression ratio is somewhere between 8.5:1 and 9:1; with lots of boost it seems less compression would be more ideal, but I'm really not planning on much more than 8lbs for this incarnation. Also remember that a centrifugal makes a quarter of the boost at half the rpm (only 2lbs at 2500). Even though I don't plan on taking this thing past around 5,000, I want it to live for a little while and the bottom end will be completely stock, 34 year old parts.

I also forgot to mention my headers, they are custom built to fit the engine setback and mid-plate while still providing adequate ground clearance. They aren't clocked, but they have 2" primaries and are 32" long, all within an inch of each other. They are also not finished; this has been one of my more daunting jobs and I'll try and get some pics up in a couple of days.

Brad will have to chime in about his cam, but if memory serves me correctly he had it in a 389 that ran 10's with an old p600b running 12lbs of boost? I guess the real question I'm asking here is can I use it and still make some decent power, or is it just entirely too huge?

A custom ground cam would be ideal, but I would really hate to spend the money for a custom cam that is going on a parts combination that isn't optimized, but that might turn out to be the best route.

Another thing that I forgot to ask about is a blow off valve. I am obviously going to need one with the intercooler. Any options out there that won't break the bank?

Baron, hows that TKO holding up for you? With the last combo I broke and upgraded every driveline part but the centerforce clutch. The second gear syncro is going out and that means tearing down the tranny for about the third time; keeping a manual in a heavy car with torque is expensive...

Lets take a minute to morn for the Colts.
Later,
James

Nice.
I like the shifter significantly more after hearing what it is. =]


8lbs, stock parts, pistons down in the hole, shifting at 5,000?
Seems like you'd be fine. You're limiting yourself as you should.
I started with a stock '74 400 and did what you did...just threw it together and was reasonable with it. It lived until i went to about 15lbs of boost (then = grenade). All stock with 100k+ miles and already had low oil pressure, though

Current motor is a mostly stock 389 and holds up well to 12lbs


That's still a lot of lift, but I guess you've got nothing to lose. I was more concerned about it being reasonably streetable in a 455....i'm sure it'll make quite a bit of power


the ebay blowoff valves work very well
50 or more mm blowoff valves new, cheap. Less than $100 usually
That's what I and a lot of other cheapasses use
Just don't trust one of the ebay cheap wastegates


the TKO is great. A little hard to shift into third sometimes, but i think that's more because I'm used to a muncie. I hear these things commonly hold up to more than their 600 torque rating. I love not having to ever adjust linkage!


That a 'carb shop' carb? Works well for you?
From what I've seen, the carb is the most important asset to any combination....running fat enough can often save you (beside maybe the cam)

Baron,
Thanks for the recommendations for the blow off valve. Yes it is a Carb Shop carb. So far, so good, I pretty much just bolted it on and went. From reading the plugs it kept things nice and fat so I rolled with it.

The more I think about it, the more I get unsure about using this cam. I am sure that it will make great power, but like already stated all that power might be at 7000 rpm!

Also, the more I read about changing valve springs, the more I realized this cam might cause me a lot of headache- even if I run a spring like the Crower 68404-16 I am probably going to have retainer to valve seal interference, and changing all that stuff around just to get my cam to work is gonna get expensive. I guess the only way to tell is going to be to start measuring things.

If that cam is a dog changing it in the car is gonna be a decent amount of work as well; the front timing cover is half of the motor mount.

What do you guys think about me using a Torker for an Intake? I've had recommendations that a single plain was the way to go, but those recommendations were when I was planning on running a lot more boost. The other option I have is a performer, but to me that seems like not quite enough intake at this level.

Thanks again,
James

Yea, forgot to mention that 36 degrees is way too much timing. To start with, at least

I run a digital 6 box that i like. I have about 35? degrees...and then pull 10 degrees out at 3500 RPM. So, I ensure that I don't kill the engine when it hits boost.
I started at 30 degrees/20 degrees....and moved it up when there were no issues
I also have a it wired up to a light...so I know that it's working

If you're just running the distributor, you should lock it out to 25 degrees and sneak up on a higher number. Makes it eaiest to tune when you aren't guessing when the mechanical advance is coming in


You'd be fine with piston/valve clearance with those larger heads. The chambers are big enough that it doesn't matter. Maybe not ideal, but won't matter.


Agree with the big lift cam. I actually run those 68404 springs and like 'em. But might be too big for those.

I don't really like the torker. I'm a fan of the holley street dominator for the reasons you stated. I figure it's a solid step up from the performer....single plane...but yet, reasonably low enough to fit under a hood
The new reproduction tomahawk/whatever it is would probably be nice too, but no cheap ones around.




that's interesting work with the timing cover - I like it
And I found myself eye-balling the gun cabinet. Neat idea to use a pistol handle. I've got some wooden colt grips that could look neat :)

'80 silverado with 52's up front? or 56's?

Agreed.
I think a discussion of intake manifolds on here, as applied to boost...is long overdue

Lots of variables to think about, though.

Half of me thinks that smaller runners (as in size, not length) could help speed up throttle response at low rpm and low boost, which would pick your engine up down low?
This is what we may want....as we're not going for high RPM anyway (compared to a boosted chebby 350 or something)
And who cares about the angles in the manifold and that jazz, because we're boosting anyway? Might effect it a bit....but not much to care about?


Big runners (size, not length) would carry more charge....but wouldn't have the velocity of the smaller runners. Surely better for max race effort and high rpm - but not beneficial on the street for a pontiac motor that prefers the lower power band?
Maybe the performer has a place in a street engine?
The other engines, including the torker II and victor and even the performer RPM move up the powerband for your engine to 6500 or so. When you're boosting....that's going to further move your power band up (the effective band), as compared to an n/a motor

So, a boosted engine with a performer RPM might push that power band up to about 7500....which isn't want you're wanting when it's going to be soggy down low anyway
Meanwhile, the performer we all hate moves that power band down substantially...
Not to mention benefits to signal response on the boosters of the carb from smaller runner manifolds?




And then there's the intakes with different length runners. Aren't the two front ones in a performer substantially shorter and smaller than the two rear? Might that cause a distribution issue?

All reasons i chose the holley street dominator. Looks like the runners are all about equal length...relatively small....low rise...power band is reasonable....single plane
I might try the performer someday though....if i wasn't scared about the dual plane issue and unequal length runners

I don't know much about the torker II - are the runners on that all equally sized and whatnot?




Any of this unreasonable? Other thoughts?

Great thoughts guys, keep them coming.

Baron, I had the performer on the last rendition of my boosted engine and it seemed to work well enough. From reading the plugs I never noticed any difference between cylinders. I really just made the brackets, swapped carbs, bolted the procharger on and went. My MSD 6btm can pull anywhere from one to three degrees of timing out per pound of boost, so no problem there.

If you look at this thread: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=471395 that is now several years old they and several other local people I talked to originally got me thinking about a single plane intake, but it looks like I might be on the hunt for a Torker II now, I dunno.

BILTIT, truck specs are as follows: '84 CUCV 1008, around 5.5" lift, 39.5 pitbull rockers, 52's front, stock 56's rear with a shackle flip, hydro assist, poly performance big black cock shocks all around, dana 60/14 bolt ff, 4.56 gears, lockright front/ detroit rear, clocked np208 t-case and flat belly, th400 tranny, 6.2 with the IP turned up, 1410 front d-shaft, every bit of 6500lbs but she goes good for a full size

Cool, mine is similar.

'80 K20 6'' lift,d60/14bff/4.56,36'' iroks (had 38'' swampers on at one time),stock length up front, stock 56's in rear with shackle flip, lockright/gov-lok, np205/th400/350sbc (soon to be 400Pontiac).

Sorry for getting off topic everyone!

If Brads cam is a solid lifter cam it wont be as radical as you think! Especially with the wide LSA and a 455. Id guesstimate you can get it to idle at 8-900 rpm and 10 to maybe 12" vacuum. It likely is too high a powerband for what you want to do though. A RA4 type cam wouldnt be a terrible choice with 1.5 rockers but with low compression it might be too soft at low rpm. IMO the crower 60310 solid 240/248 112 lsa would work real nice. Good idle broad powerband and done making power by 5500 and 6000 max rpm on a 455(with good rods). I would invest in a set of forged connecting rods. They are quite affordable. Even the low cost($200 ish) 5140 rods are a safer bet than using stock cast rods. The T1 is designed for good distribution with a qjet OR a holley. That said a performer will be fine for what you want to do. Turbo69bird ran a performer into the nines before he went efi and he was around 850 hp level with his 455.(studded 2 bolt with good rods stock 6h heads). Low compression with premium fuel motors like lots of initial advance. 24 ish if the starter lets you or use a start retard or use a switch to hold ignition off till you get cranking then turn ignition on. 36 degrees is too much total advance with boost. Detonation probably caused that weak block to fail. Id want ignition to retard back to around 24-27 under boost and below the 24 initial if you step up the boost. A slow 10 degree curve with stock type springs for a total of around 34 at 4000-4500 and boost retard as I mentioned. Vacuum advance can be set to add about 10-15 degrees for better mileage when cruising if you want just be sure to source vacuum from the manifold and not the part throttle port on the carb. Id try to shoot fro 8-8.5 compression with iron heads. You can mill your heads if below 8:1

Bruce, thanks for the cam recommendation.

Stronger rods are not an option, I really wanna throw this thing together as cheaply as possible utilizing the best parts combo I can from what I already have, but I am open to suggestions though.

The cam is a solid lifter, and I was definitely thinking that the wider LSA and all those cubic inches would mellow it out some.

Interesting information on the Performer, the water crossovers are cut on my intakes, so trying them both back to back wouldn't be a hard thing to do. It seems like if I stuck with the performer that would certainly help my bottom end before I got into the boost.

I guess I didn't really talk about my expectations for this build, this car will probably never see the track because of the glass gears in the current tranny. If I made an honest 450 horsepower and had it live for a year or two I would be happy. Then when the time and money allows build a better suited combo to step it up a notch.

Keep the thoughts coming,
James

Id run the stock cam if in good shape(maybe add higher ratio rockers instead) in favor of better rods if it came down to stretching a few dollars. That solid cam is going to need better(usually slightly more expensive plus usually more machine work) springs than a hydraulic will.

Paul Spotts offers head kits that include new valves, springs and retainers etc at very reasonable prices. http://www.spottsperformance.com/Head%20kits The Crower 68404 hydraulic springs are "drop-in" replacements. He also sells Crower cams.

Pontiac Dude or Butler have forged I beam rods for $239.95 . http://store02.prostores.com/servlet...ods/Categories http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/...pins/rods.html. same deal. (but TN sales tax)

On budget builds I have re-used bearings if they were in good shape(even wear no copper, minor scratches ok and clearance still in spec but if in doubt relace them) Just keep track of where they came from and put them back. If bore taper ok remove any ridge and just lightly hone and re-ring. New rod bolts and resizing stock rods costs near as much as the 5140 rods.

BTW I have a good used set of SBF 1.6 ratio 7/16 stud Comp pro magnum rockers for sale. $150 if your interested. They work on a Pontiac (dont use stock bottle neck studs) and I didnt have pushrod clearance issue on my heads.(they were close though)

spink7124,
sorry i a hdn't seen the thread befor.
put ra4?5 cam in it. 308-320/ like .511lift on a 113.9 lobeseperation, hydraulick.
with the that intercooler, a ra4 cam, ported dports and 8.5:1 434combo it went 9.75 in the 1/4 on 1110 race gas and 16# of boost with the upgraded p-600 blower..
send me a pm if you need any help.

BRAD SPIDEl

Thanks Brad, will do.

I am currently waiting for my tax return to get back, then I'm gonna start ordering parts and working on the headers, we have had nothing but foul weather here but as I progress I will keep this thread updated.

James

Headers!
 

Just a little update, I finally got my headers all tacked up. I am thinking of getting them professionally tig welded price prohibiting. They are 2" primaries that are 32" in length all within about an inch and a half of each other.

They are not clocked, and the collectors I built to maintain ground clearance between the mid-plate, block, frame, and ground. They end in 3" pipe and give me about 3.5 to 4" of ground clearance.

I've been working on these on and off for quite some time, so the funk on the tubes is just surface rust from my hands

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0859.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0863.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0862.jpg

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The headers look great!!
Keep us updated.
if you have any questions you can PM. me or email me [email protected]
or call me 765-534-4359.

good luck with your project,
Brad Spidel.

If you wanna gain some IH for better spring selection,and more max lift clearance,just use the valves from the 4X-4h heads in those 6H heads.

That move alone will add at least +.150" IH to the 6H heads,probably more.

The 400 heads valves are typically 4.980" long.
The 455 heads valves are typically 4.810" long.

Only catch to that "trick" is the need for corresponding longer pushrods.

And should you opt to use the solid lifter cam,lifter choice can affect that pushrod length as well.

Personally,for a "milder" combo,I'd opt for somewhat lower compression ratio,bit higher boost,and as much lift as I could get without running into P2V issues.

Bruce & Brad's cam suggestions both are in the ballpark IMO,I'd also opt for a rocker like the HS 1.65's which measure closer to 1.7 ratio.

Peak head flow numbers likely wont be too big a deal in a "budget" combo like this.

The boost is where the bulk of the peak power will be coming from.

12 lbs like Baron mentioned sounds pretty reasonable IMO.

But I dont claim to be a boost expert either.

Just wanted to point out that valve swap deal as an option here.

The OP said he wanted to use as many "on hand" parts as possible.

HTH

Bret P.

Change of plans
 

Well, I pulled the crank outta my used 455 yesterday to put a rear main seal in and lets just say the bearings were in less than perfect condition. Obviously, they've had a bit of trash run through them as well as a little bit of pitting.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0917.jpg

The thrust also has a couple of chewed up spots on it...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0922.jpg

So I guess keeping this super cheap is out the window and I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and rebuild her.

So far I'm thinking PPR's 5140 rods and the Icon/ Keith Black forged pistons with the 15cc dish. I still wanna use the cam that I have, a solid lifter with 251/263 duration @ .050 .530/.556 lift on a 114 LSA.

My heads are 4x 4h's with screw in studs, 2.11/1.66 valves and are gasket matched as well as the ports being cleaned up.

The intake I have is a Torker 1 also gasket matched to the heads.

From online calculators figuring in a .030 overbore, 15cc dish of the Icon's, felpro 1016's, a very rough guesstimate of being .015 in the hole, and the 97cc chamber of my 4x heads I come up with around an 8.6:1 compression ratio.

I want to try and run 10lbs of boost, I think my compression ratio might be a little high but I do have an intercooler and an msd 6btm if I need to pull some timing out.

I was also thinking about studding the mains instead of using the factory bolts.

So how does this sound to you guys?

Any recommendations on piston rings or rod/main bearings?

Thanks again,
James

Update
 

I know its been a while but I haven't quit. Things have just taken much longer than expected.

I ended up having the motor pretty much completely rebuilt. To refresh the block and crank are a 75 455 from a grandville wagon. The crank was turned .010 as well as the block being bored .030. All pontiac loaned me a torque plate for the final honing. The mains were were also studded and align honed.

The pistons are the newer keith black forgings with the 15cc dish and rods are tomahawks from pacific performance racing.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0221.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0247.jpg

The heads are 4x 4h's with screw in studs, 2.11/1.66 valves, crower 68404 springs, and some minor port work by me, mainly just gasket matching and some bowl work. Although I think they may have been surfaced before, after a cleanup cut the heads were right a 96 cc's. With the pistons .010 in the hole, and 1016 head gaskets I figured that I will have right around an 8.7:1 compression ratio. Probably a bit high for boost, but I have a huge intercooler and an MSD 6btm to pull out timing.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0223.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0226.jpg

The cam is a solid with 251 degrees of duration on the intake and 263 degrees of duration on the exhaust at .050. Lift is .530 intake .556 exhaust, a bit more with the 1.52 rockers I will be running. The cam was degreed in per the cam card, it came in at 107 degrees instead of the 108 degrees recommended, I figured I would try it here first before I changed it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0250.jpg

The intake is a tomahawk from PPR, I still have to gasket match it and cut off the crossover, I also have valve cover spacers on the way so the polylocks clear the covers. Other than that and dialing in the bellhousing the motor is pretty much ready to go in. I'll try and get some pics of the engine bay in the car next week.

Thanks, forgot to mention the lsa on the cam is 114, so hopefully it should work well with the blower.

That is an oil temp probe sticking out of the pan, the notch in the front of the pan is to clear the cross member in the chassis, due to motor set back as well as dropping it a bit lower in the car.

I can only mig, I did not do the welding on the timing cover, it was tigged by a place I found locally after several other places failed. Apparently it was extremely hard to get a trouble free weld because of all the years of antifreeze flowing through the timing cover. When I had a 1/4" milled off the back to accommodate the motor plate it opened up the water pump cavity.

Nice project. I just read the thread fromt he begining with quite a bit of enthusiasm until the girlfriend and delay part came about.
Anyway, I admire your project quite a bit. Wanted to ask about the engine set back as I do not think you got enough into it. what about in side the car? I would guess you enlarged the trans tunnel too because of moving the trans back? What about driver position, pedals, etc? This also would move you further away from the dash and gauges or did you move it all back too?
Just thinking about reaching the light switch, stereo, etc. or did you stay in the same place and just be more cramped? curious?

Best to you on the engine build but, surprised you put the said limited time and money into a 455 esp. after a 400 main web failure? Would it have not been cheaper/wiser to build an earlier 400 or 389 with the thicker webs? I see the advantages to the extra inchs for some but, with your blower, should not make much a difference.
Oh, like your headers too.

Hoping that lifes other interests do not deter you too far from the Pontiac/car hobby.

Best to you,
Steve

Got the valves lashed, PRW 1.52 rockers on today etc. Before anyone asks I checked each valve for clearance; I had significant problems with stock length valves. I ended up having the guides cut down some when they were cut for positive seals, I also ended up machining a slight amount off the retainers, now I have about .050 clearance on every valve.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0254.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0256.jpg

Here is a pic of my valve covers:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0257.jpg

And the previously mentioned clearance problems that I'm planning on solving with a 3/8" spacer. I could have probably milled some off the poly locks as well but at this point I'm tired of going to the machine shop...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0258.jpg

Aron, I am also running a remote filter due to the fact of the headers not being able to clear the stock oil filter adapter with the amount of engine setback I have. I also plan on running an accumulator but just don't have the money for one right now. My lines from the block to the remote filter are -12, I had to make the fittings coming out of the block because I tapped the holes for 3/8 npt. I wish I would have gotten a remote filter housing with a place for an oil sending unit pressure gauge, I am having trouble fitting mine at the back of the block under the distributor.

Thanks Steve, I have a 71 400 block and crank that I was originally intending on using, then I ran out of money, girlfriend, etc.. When I was planning that motor it was to be as "all out" as I could have made it. Professionally ported heads, 4 bolt mains, block filled, aluminum rods, you know what I mean. Then I found this good running 455 on my local craigslist for cheap, it re-sparked my interest in the project and the plan was to swap heads, throw some gaskets in it and get the car running cheaply. So i guess I'm kind of saving the 400 I have for more of an ultimate buildup of sorts. Although I do agree the 3.75 stroke and smaller main bearings would have probably been much better for what I'm doing. I am not trying to make the most power I can, just have a fun unique car that will surprise some people.

I have some pics of when I cut the firewall out, I'll dig them up later and try to go more in depth.

I think this build is cool. I'd like to see what you have done on the inside of the car also. I'm doing a turbo build for my car that's moving along pretty slow too, but I figure it'll be finished when it gets finished. Nice work, Ronnie

fwiw With your ICL at 107 with a new chain, chances are after break in ICL will be closer to 108.

I don't think so.

So fast that the cows are milked out.

:D

No more dairy cows now.

:)

So on to answering a few questions about the engine setback...

Here is the car being torn apart to start with the plans I had rolling around in my head, originally just completely seem welding the sub frame and frame connectors that didn't hang down so low. This is how it set as of March 2006:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/130_3052.jpg

After tearing the car apart I found my sub frame had a crack in the center cross member, so I seem welded one that I had from another car I bought for the tail panel. Here it is getting the firewall cut out.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_3186.jpg

To make the alcove for the engine to sit in I bought a wheel barrow and cut out what I needed, I had to add 4.5" to the center to get the heads to tuck in.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_3188.jpg

For the front motor mount, I had the timing cover milled down 1/4" and the aluminum front plate I made welded to the back. I am using a Lakewood bell housing, so I made my own block protector with ears for the mid mount. Here are pics of the timing cover:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0276.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...IMG_0275-1.jpg

I did all the work in the driveway and worked off a plumb bob and a level. Here are is a pic of the blower being mocked up around the suspension.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...IMG_0300-1.jpg

In this pic you can see the wheelbarrow alcove where the windshield wiper transmission used to be, you can also tell how far the engine is set back, a full 6" The engine now sits completely behind the center line of the front wheels.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0283.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0312.jpg

I do not have any pics of inside the car but I will get some. I used a kirkey road race seat and put it where it was most comfortable to me. I feel this really gave me a lot more room because it is mounted as low as I could get it with no adjustments. The dash and steering column stayed in the same place but because the gas pedal had to mount on the back of the alcove I had to move the clutch and brake pedals back 2" to get the pedal relationship right. I obviously haven't driven the car yet but even strapped in the harness I can still reach everything reasonably well. The driving position is comfortable enough but it is definitely all business. I also had to notch out a place in the floor board where your heels fall because of the way it slopes up; moving the pedals back put your heels right on the slope.

Aron you werent on when John left. I understand why he aint going back. I was banned for awhile. You havent been a victim yet. Agree the Turbo Forum is good guys there. Only reason I go there.

Spink that is alot of work. Great job!!! That set back will help traction. You may want an access panel for the distributor though.(Hint... find an old glove box and its surrounding metal.)

Advise... find a car project for your lady. If she dont want to be involved with cars she may not be the right one for you. There are ladies out there honestly interested in this stuff. My daughters are spoken for but often have their girlfriends meet up with us at races or car shows. One of my daughters friends used to drive 300mph Jet cars for Hannah(Queen of Spades) and now in alcohol dragsters(and married). (Her mom and my wife grew up together) My wife when we first dated told me not to get any ideas of making her car mine. "You'll be gone before that happens" is what she said. I knew then I had to marry her. Dont let your little head advise the big head ;)

You'd probably enjoy some of the RatRod work my partner and I do. We like S10 and Blazer frames ourselves.(Blazer much stronger) And nice final results.
Strong, functional, safe, cost effective!

Nice project Spink, I like that you make the bits yourself from nothing(like the wheelbarrow mod!) and do your own work,rather than just throwing wads of cash at it.
Girlfriends who like cars?:eek: My last four long termers all pretended to like cars at the start of the relationship,but after a couple of years the same old sh*t starts, you know,'Do you HAVE to go to the racing AGAIN this weekend?'. 'My mothers coming over/I want to go shopping/there's some diy to do around the house',etc etc (delete as appropriate):rolleyes:

WOW!
Spink that is a lot of excellent work, there.

:)

ha ha. I've had a few of those too! So, I guess it just is not American girls who are like that.
I am glad I have stayed with my hobby instead of having to fight for control each and every day over stuff I do not want to do.

My ex turned anti-car about 13 months after wedding. Lot of years wasted. Odd thing Debs ex would have been a good match for mine. He did not like her getting attention from her 69 Firebird tried to ruin the car. Only time Deb and I had a car issue was whenI had my 68 bird convertible. If we entered car shows we were in same class. If I placed better than her she got a bit jealous. That was a bit of hassle. I wanted a hardtop anyway so after a few years sold my bird for quite a profit. Bought a 55 Starcheif a 59 Catalina(was going to be my race car and a 68Catalina. Job op and transfer then a cancer battle changed that. Now I have an 84 GP that I'm slowly getting Pontiac powered and up to the tasks ahead I have planned. Deb didnt want to part with any of the Pontiacs but sometimes life happens. Quite a partner and always there.

Thanks for the great words about my car guys, I really appreciate it. While I was outside I snapped a few pics of a couple things of interest. I painted the core support and firewall thanksgiving weekend and since then its been sitting outside so everything's a bit dirty, but you get the idea.

Btw, the distributor comes out with the engine in the car, it can be pulled completely up and out without a problem.

Here is the best pic that I got of the wheelbarrow, it was dusk so my pictures didn't come out to great:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0261.jpg

In this picture you can see some of the modifications to the core support. The inter-cooler I got from brad spidel (sp?) here on PY. I had to cut quite a bit out to get it to fit, its something like 17" tall 34" wide and 4" thick with 3.5" ins and outs.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0267.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0270.jpg

The radiator is a stock four core brass unit for now; I had to move it something like two inches back to tuck the inter-cooler in. Most of the bracketry that holds things together is aluminum angle, pop rivets, and gripserts to try and save a little weight. The fan is from a Lincoln Mark VIII and the controller is from dc controls.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0271.jpg

The wheels are the 17" snowflakes from year one, fronts only for now until I can afford the rears. Tires are nitto 555r II's. The front brakes are from Kore 3; thirteen inch rotors with a c6 caliper, the master cylinder is from a right hand drive newer s-10, and I have a wilwood proportioning valve so I can adjust the rear bias. Upper control arms are SPC, the lowers are fabbed pieces from Stock Car Products; they run a big Chrysler ball joint and heims instead of bushings. The toe links are adjustable for bump steer and the springs are from speedway motors with a hidden adjuster.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0272.jpg

Here is a quick pic of the cage so you can kinda see how things sit inside, I used to have swing out door bars and a pinned in back brace but wasn't very happy with them. I notched the floor for the frame connectors and they also tie into down bars in the cage as well as the rockers. I can sit this thing on three jack stands now with no problems.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...IMG_0275-2.jpg

I think the dust in this picture may be from bondo? Anyways you can see the backside of the firewall from inside the car and how I did the tranny tunnel to clear the bell housing. It really doesn't intrude into the car as much as you think.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...IMG_0276-1.jpg

Lemme know if you all wanna see anything else or have any questions...

Updates!
 

Well it has been a while, but the motor is in and I have about 50 miles on the car so far. Please ignore the fact that it rained last night and this thing has to sit outside... On with the pics!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0301.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0310.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0304.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0314.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...IMG_0308-1.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0309.jpg

Still gotta put the front spoiler and spats on, Its going to take a little work because I had to chop the center piece up a bit to fit around the intercooler.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0298.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...4/IMG_0311.jpg

And now to the bad stuff. It's leaking oil pretty bad, either out of the rear main or the rear of the pan gasket, I used BOP stuff on both. I want to get under the car while its running to investigate but its still open header, so that's not gonna happen until exhaust gets here.

The clutch is slipping. Its a centerforce that I had in there before. I am running a hydraulic throwout bearing due to header clearance and I'm thinking that may be the problem. It has shims to set the preload and I've already had it apart, remeasured, and reshimmed so I dunno. It happens at about 4500 or so when it starts to build boost, just blows right through the clutch.

I need to change the blower pulley for more boost, I haven't really gotten it under a good load yet due to the clutch problem but so far I have only seen 5lbs and i was planning on 10-12lbs.

Exhaust should be on sometime next week, I have a 3" oval setup with x pipe and spintechs coming from ram air restorations. I went with the side exit, its gonna be a real pain to get it to fit with the frame connectors but I'm committed now.

This thing is going to be a beast! So far two steps forward and one step back but I'm getting there.

I see a LOT of Gale Bank's fabricators ideas in your TA. I copied off all of the info years ago when they were building the Camaro for his kid to drive. I thought the car looked similar when I saw how you did the front plate and the cross-member. Course the Wheel Barrow pics kind of sealed that cpmparison quickly.

I plan on doing the same mod with a 64 GTO Chassis car that I have that needs a bunch of work.

Excellent work and time to enjoy your labors.

Tom Vaught

Lookin' good. I'd keep it "hot rod black". And most people won't even realize those are 17" rims---sneaky!
I had a similar look to my '72 procharged vette back when I was running it vs the vipers. 50 series BFGs, a peeling paintjob, and no carpet.
Of course I could never hide the whine;)

So.... believe it or not I still have this car!

I thought I would try to continue to update this thread.

In 2012 life happened and I got married and bought a house- the good news is I finally had a garage to keep this thing in.

The two biggest problems I had with the car were the original gas tank (it was sumped and I was running an Aeromotive a1000) and the blow through carb. The needle and seat was very problematic and one time I actually hydrolocked the engine with fuel-which eventually led to a small fire because of my own ignorance.

As time went on and I became more determined to drive the car I bought a replacement tank from Rock Auto, sold the A1000, and bought a phantom flex setup from aeromotive. I also ended up replacing all the -8 lines with ptfe stuff from summit.

This car was originally from Chicago so it had lots of rust. I found this when I was pulling it apart (this is the passenger frame rail).

http://i.imgur.com/j8rZ5vt.jpg

I hate welding/grinding under a car so this took tons of time. I also too time to clean up some previous repairs a less experienced me had done.

Pic of all the old metal that was cut/ground off:

http://i.imgur.com/xJy7VDE.jpg

Finished product:

http://i.imgur.com/Li4vWzl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZNmatO2.jpg

It was about this time I started reading about FiTech and throttle body injection in general. After considering how much this would help the drivability of the car I knew it was the direction I wanted to head. So off came the headers to touch up some welds, some paint, and remflex gaskets.

http://i.imgur.com/Fxm77Cp.jpg

After tons of reading I made the decision to order a Holley Super Sniper 1250 from Steve Morris instead of the FiTech. Here is the Sniper mean muggin' the old 750.

http://i.imgur.com/SlBfh19.jpg

After cranking the car the next problem to solve was the running temp; it would routinely get up to 215. After trying lots of things the two that made the most difference were trashing the fan controller I had and letting the sniper control it via a heavy duty relay, and moving the intercooler to allow more air flow through the radiator.

http://i.imgur.com/EsHlZlU.jpg