Classic rock bands, or cover bands?
 

A recent article in SPIN Magazine targeted some of the classic rock bands that are currently on tour, warning that you may be disappointed to learn that even though your ticket says you're seeing one of your favorite groups, there may not be many members left in the group that actually recorded their hits.

Question : Is it ok for artists to use famous name of a band sell tickets, when in reality they're essentially a cover band?

FOREIGNER - 6 original members that recorded all their hits in the 70's and 80's, but only 1 original member still with the band (Mick Jones) who plays guitar and keyboards. No idea who their singer is, but their original singer was a big part of their sound.

BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS - 9 original members that recoded their hits in the 60's and 70's, but currently touring with 1 original member (guitarist).

FOGHAT - 4 original members that recorded all their hits in the 70's and early 80's, currently touring with only 1 original member (drummer).

LYNYRD SKYNYRD - 7 original members that recoded dozens of top hits in the 70's, currently touring with only 1 original member (guitarist)

SURVIVOR - 5 original members recorded all their hits in the 70's and 80's, currently touring with 1 original member (guitarist)

SWEET - 4 original members with many hits in the 70's, currently touring with 1 original member (bass player).

ASIA - 4 original members recoded several top hits in the early 80's, currently touring with NO original members, but the singer-bassist was with them in 1992, several years after their star faded.

Like or dislike these bands, I'm wondering at what point are they ripping their fans off?

Some other classic rock groups that toured without key members:

JOURNEY (without Steve Perry)
CREEDENCE (without John Fogerty)
BOSTON (without Brad Delp)
THE BEACH BOYS (without Brian Wilson)
PINK FLOYD (without Roger Waters)
THE GUESS WHO (without Burton Cummings)

A reunion is one thing, but I think touring under the band's name, when key members are not part of the group anymore, is a bit of a ripoff.

Can you think of any more? What are your opinions of seeing bands where only 1 member was with the band when they were making hits, and that member was not one of the songwriters or vocalists?

A few minor corrections:
Foghat:The bass player(Craig McGregor) replaced Tony Stevens early on and was there thru the 80's.Earl & him are one of the better rytms sections going today.THey sound extremelt good...BUT there is no replacement for Pevrette & Price.

Skynyrd:Ricky Medlocke was originally in LS-he was the drummer in the beginning.And the arguement can be made that they sound better today.

Grand Funk is out with .38 special's old lead man.

Outlaws are on life support with two original guys.

The Marshall Tucker Band comes to mind. I think Doug Gray is still playing. Once a nationally known act, now relegated to playing local fests, bars, and county fairs. People still want to hear them, just not a huge draw with most of the original members gone. Saw MTB at Carpentersville (IL) fest around 1990. Lead singer was drunk on his ass, but it was free.

One of the major Southern rock bands of the '70s, the Marshall Tucker Band was formed in Spartanburg, SC, in 1971 by singer Doug Gray, guitarist Toy Caldwell (born 1948, died February 25, 1993), his brother bassist Tommy Caldwell (born 1950, died April 4, 1980), guitarist George McCorkle (born 1947, died June 29th, 2007), drummer Paul Riddle, and reed player Jerry Eubanks.

But at what point should the band NOT tour under their original name?

I just heard some other 60's bands (mildly successful) are going to tour under their original names, but there's only 1 member left in some of those groups, and that member did not sing or write anything. I feel the ticket buying public should know, or at the very least, the ticket prices should be adjusted accordingly.

By the way, when did The Beatles break up? http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/happy0009.gif

Yeah...MTB.Doug Gray's voice once was considered an"instrument" he is now basically narrating the songs.Sad.MTB died with Tommy in his jeep.

MTB
 

Saw them at thio Ho-Chunck Casino last month in Wisconsin after a 30-year abstinence. What Doug has put togther is as good as the original. He has retained the original expertise in each instrument and the overall sound as possible.

Good stuff. See them if you can!

Deep Purple has been touring with 1 original member. The drummer Ian Paice.
Once my favorite band, you couldnt pay me to see them.

Band names are often trademarked and whoever has the rights, I assume can tour under that name or assign others to tour under that name. For example the "Marshall Tucker Band" used to be trademarked, but is dead now, so there is no federal protection under the USPTO. Technically anyone can start a band called The Marshall Tucker Band, but since the name is well known and still used in commerce, the original band members and their heirs may have their lawyer calling on you. Another example; Led Zeppelin is a valid trademarked name owned by the estate of John Bonham.

I suppose if a band has at least one surviving member and attempts to recreate the original music, then for all intenets and purposes it is the current version of the band. The band may sound nothing like the original and may even suck. I agree they should list members so discerning individuals can decide for themselves if the price of a ticket is worthwhile. With internet research and YouTube, it's easy to see what the current version of the band sounds like.

No-one and i mean NO-ONE plays like TC did.McCorkle was one of the best rythm players on the planet.And Tommy was the leader.


I suggest you look at teh two selections below and see what the real MTB was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0L5L...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy6n5...eature=related


Then this one.The talent assembled here is mind blowing and todays MTB couldn't hold a candle to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ggxf...eature=related

The first thing that comes to mind is Guns N' Roses. I'm pretty sure Axl is the only one left now in that band, and it really doesn't sound anything like their original stuff. Especially since in their newest album they decided to use so many different people to play the instruments.

I forgot about Guns N' Roses, that's a great example of a guy who kept the name, and is now touring as "the band" he made famous. No one's left other than ol' Axl....

I think even more annoying though is when a band appears where NO ONE is original, or to a lesser degree, where only ONE member is original, and that member was a background bass player or something. Just really ripping people off. The die-hard fans will know who they're seeing, but regular fans that don't know all the details about every group may feel very cheated.

Missing key members?

- The Doors, of course playing without Jim Morrison.
- Alice In Chains is touring again, but the lead singer died almost 10 years ago. The guitar player wrote (and sang) a lot of the songs, but it just seems like there's something wrong here.
- Queen....obviously, not going to see Freddie Mercury, but they replaced him with Paul Rodgers (Bad Company), and now they broke up too.
- The Who - playing without Entwhistle and Moon, but Townsend and Daltrey were most of the show....
- The Beach Boys, fought over rights to use the name. In fact, at one time there were TWO Beach Boys bands simultaneously touring, each with 1 original member.
- And then the Pink Floyd debacle, suing for rights to use the band's name when Gilmour and Waters realized they couldn't sell tickets as solo artists.

When do they become cover bands, and when do you consider them "the real thing"?

I'd kinda consider it a cover band when like, one of the members is left in it. Otherwise I'd say it is legitimate only if the majority of the members of the band are still in the band.
There might be some exceptions though, like if the main member of the band has their name as the band name i.e. Dave Matthews band. Obviously if Dave Matthews left, how could it be still the Dave Matthews band? On the other end of the scale, if Dave was the only one left, I'd say he could still be the Dave Matthews band. Same thing with the Jimi Hendrix Experience.

Creedence Clearwater Revival actually sued John Fogarty for singing CCR songs once...His OWN songs.
Also, there are occasionally TWO acts touring at the same time, claiming to be a particular act, both with one member of the original group.
EDIT: I see that Mike already mentioned my second point with the simultaneous Beach Boys acts.

My wife and I saw YES this summer for our 25th anniverary. (Definately Classic Rock). While only 1 original member from 1968 remained (Chris Squire the base player) the majority if the band shown here made up the "Classic" lineup. These memebers made the majority of their hits from the 70's and 80's. The only difference from seeing this line up and one for 30 years ago was the lead singer and the keyboard player Oliver Wakeman (Rick Wakeman's - (who was part of hte classic linup) son). I would consider them the real deal.

Nick

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...r/DSC00226.jpg

Sorry Brad Delp couldn't make Boston's reunion tour- he's dead!!

[QUOTE=Greg Reid;4078904]Creedence Clearwater Revival actually sued John Fogarty for singing CCR songs once...His OWN songs.
Also, there are occasionally TWO acts touring at the same time, claiming to be a particular act, both with one member of the original group.
EDIT: I see that Mike already mentioned my second point with the simultaneous Beach Boys acts.[/QUOTE
Actually Fogerty was sued by a picee of crap producer Paul Santz.Listen to the tune "Vantz can't dance" on his Centerfield album.I saw JF a couple years ago.Talk about a time machine.

Well, one thing I consider, many of the lead singers I grew up with can no longer hit the notes that made them famous. I saw Journey with Arnel Pineda on TV which was a great show. Now it is a bit disconcerting to see a young Asian kid doing the lead vocals, but you close your eyes and he is dead on.

On the other hand I saw John Fogerty a couple of years ago and he was pretty much spot on. He was also the loudest band I have heard in at least 25 years.

Considering how freaking depressing "The Final Cut" was I am just as glad to see Pink Floyd without Waters. Besides Gilmour's guitar and vocals were pretty much the "sound" from Dark Side on.

I saw the Who maybe 8 years ago doing a Quadrophenia tour. It was a mixed bag, Ringo Star's kid was playing drums and was awesome, but Daltry just could not hit the notes. Then again I saw what was left of them on the halftime show for the last Super Bowl and that was a really good set.

The two bands that are consistently good each time we see them are Tom Petty and Neil Young. Of course the argument can be made that neither has any kind of singing voice, but they do rock out! ! ! !

-Harry

THe Who needs a drummer and a bass player.
The Beatles need a singer & a guitar player.

Put them together and call them the Whootles.

Two summers ago, I saw Boston and Styx on a double bill, neither one had their original lead singer, Brad Delp having committed suicide the year before and Dennis DeYoung leaving the band years before.

However, that being said, the replacements were all very good, Lawrence Gowan for Styx and Tommy DeCarlo and Michael Sweet for Boston. DeCarlo's voice live was pretty much a dead ringer for Delp's sound in concert- how that will translate to a new album remains to be seen but Tommy did a great job, especially considering he had never been in a band before. Gowan was absolutely amazing Michael Sweet also has a fantastic voice (Stryper lead singer) and is a great guitar player.

I have seen Boston six times ('87, '95,'97, '02, '07 and '08) and the sound was very comparable, even though the lineups were different for each tour. They put on a fantastic show and we're going to the NY State fair on Saturday to see Styx again. I'm really looking forward to it.

So, to answer the question, if they still have the sound but not every original member, I'll still go to see them, people leave, die etc., but that doesn't mean the music has to stop. Brian Johnson stepped into some very big shoes back in 1980 and he certainly delivered.

If they are one of these acts with no original members touting themselves as the real deal, I'll pass...

In the case of Journey, Boston, and Yes, if you see them live, you can close your eyes and they sound exactly the same as they did with their original lead singer....isn't that a cover band?

They (the band) can use whomever they like to replace original members, but when the promoters (and the group) charge ticket prices similar to what you would expect to pay if this was the original band, I think that's ripping off the public.

They should have an asterisk next to their name, so when you see an ad, it may say something like,

"Come see Journey* in concert"
* - One or more members of the original band may have been replaced.

I can't imagine seeing YES without Jon Anderson, he's "the voice" of the band, and a huge part of their sound. Now, if they replace him, isn't that a cover band?

And Deep Purple is touring with only Ian Paice, the original drummer? Seriously? Just not right, they should not use the band's name....

I know band mates frequently sue to keep ex-band mates from using their band name or logo, and it must be a tough thing to deal with. They pour their hearts into songs, had dozens of hits, lived a great life, but now it's over. Then one of the members that had nothing to do with writing or singing any of the songs decides to make a buck and goes out on tour, using the bands name. It's sort of dragging the band's name through the mud. The other members don't want to see their reputation tarnished.

Can't fault the Who - the other two are dead!

Recently saw the new Journey on Palladia - I laughed out loud!

While that is technically true, it was the second incarnation of the band that actually hit it big. The classic "Mark II" lineup of DP, lead singer Ian Gillan, guitarist Richie Blackmore, bassist Roger Glover, keyboardist Jon Lord and drummer Ian Paice recorded Machine Head. The earlier version of the band which started in 1968 only had one hit, "Hush" and the original singer Rod Evans and Nick Simper were fired in 1970. Interestingly, Evans led an unauthorized version of Deep Purple in the late 1970s, was sued by Blackmore and lost.

The Mark II version rejoined in 1984 and stayed together for five years. The current version is Gillan, Glover, Paice, guitarist Steve Morse and former Rainbow keyboardist Don Airey, who replaced Jon Lord, who retired in 2002.

Deep Purple is still touring and they still sound like they did during the classic years. They all in their 50s and 60s now, so if you get a chance to see them, do so before it's all over.

I imagine in most if not all of these cases, the band's name belongs to a corporation that was formed at some point by the band members, so it's not as simple as saying just because the lead singer quit or died or whatever that the corporation can't go on using the name.

After all, Henry Ford has been dead for 60 years, but the company still uses his name. :)

I guess when I refer to "original band members", I mean the people that made the hits. Obviously, many bands had a first incarnation (like Deep Purple), but they were best known as the "Machine Head" and "Who Do We Think We Are" (my favorite LP or theirs) band, and of course the live album.

I recall when David Coverdale took over in Deep Purple, they didn't have any hits, but the guy was obviously a tremendous singer, went on to form Whitesnake, then played with Jimmy Page. When Deep Purple reunited for the "Perfect Strangers" album and tour, he was stunned they didn't ask him to return to the band. But they wanted the classic DP lineup.

Same thing happened to KISS, where only 2 original members remained, they had a few different players, but when they wanted to reunite, it was the original 4 that made them famous.

A few different incarnations of Black Sabbath, but the people flocked to see them with Ozzy, not so much with Dio.

Always a little weird when a singer leaves a band, either willingly or by a death, and the next singer has to sing those older songs that were famous with the original lead singer. Just doesn't sound right to me, but I understand the need for the band to continue on with their success.

Sammy Hagar sang old Van Halen material with Van Halen in the 90's, still didn't sound right.

Brian Johnson sings old Bon Scott AC/DC hits, still doesn't sound right.

Thankfully, these two singers made dozens of their own hits, so it's not too offensive to me.

But Paul Rodgers up front for Queen was just a joke. Basically a sing-a-long for the crowd at every concert. Just not right for Rodgers (as great as he is) to take the lead in a band that was so identified by Freddy Mercury. You can't replace Robert Plant and go out as Led Zeppelin, or replace Steve Tyler and go out as Aerosmith, so I don't get how they could replace Steve Perry in Journey, or Jon Anderson in Yes, and play under the group's original name.

In most cases it's the lead singer that establishes the band's identity, however two band come to mind that did not diminish (in my mind) as they replaced their lead vocals: Sabbath w/RJD, and Van Hagar. Brian Johnson did AC/DC well as a replacement singer too.

Yes Jon Anderson is the voice of Yes but I tell you. I've seen them over 20 times and this was the 1st time without Jon Anderson. Benoit David was phenomenal. And it was nice to not have some of Jon's out there bantering with the audience. In my opinion they WERE NOT a cover band and the show I saw was one of the best 2-3 I've seen in my life.

Nick:jumping:

I saw Yes a long time ago (1979-era) for their "Tormato" tour (anyone recall that one?). They were "in the round", on a circular rotating stage in the middle of Market Square Arena (Indianapolis). I never saw a rotating stage before, and they sounded incredible. Andserson was at the top of the "cake", or the top riser of the stage. I recall the first thing I noticed about Jon Anderson....man, was he short!

I guess they propped him up on a box or something for band photos. http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/confused0006.gif

Yes I realize the MK II version was the most popular.
Without Blackmore is like Led Zepplin without Jimmy Page.
Blackmore and Lord were the founding members. Blackmore named the band. Now they are not in the band.
Also, they havent wrote 1 memorable song since Blackmore left.
They really should call it a day.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but Steve Morse is a fantastic guitarist and Don Airey is also great. Even if they're just playing the old classics, I would definitely go see them again. I saw them on their '85 and '87 tours and I'd love to hear those songs again live- Blackmore or no Blackmore.

Your right. Steve Morse is a fantastic guitarist, but so is, lets say, Eddie Van Halen.
Would you accept Led Zepplin if Van Halen was their new guitarist?
I wouldnt. Its not Led Zepplin. Its a cover band. A very good cover band but a cover band none the less.
Deep Purple is still a fantastic band but its not really Deep Purple without Lord or Blackmore.
Its a tribute band now.

This is a good conversation- I like polite debate.

Ok- let's say that Eddie is no longer available for Van Halen for whatever reason. If Wolfgang took over as lead guitarist and did the music justice, would it not be Van Halen? I think that good arguments could be made for both sides.

If Jason Bonham is drumming, is Led Zeppelin a cover band?

Blackmore to EVH is a real stretch.Blackmore,Bolin,Morse are more in the same "vein" if you will.

There is a parallel between Led Zep & MTB-you take away one piece of the puzzle and they're done.

Speaking of Van Halen, I recently heard on the radio a rumor that the band wanted to go without David Lee Roth, I guess figuring they could do well as it is just as the "family".

[quote=Cobrabill;4079003]You're right. I should have clarified that as it's usually some pencil pusher that pulls that kind of stunt.

I wasnt comparing Blackmore to Van Halen or Morse to Van Halen.
All I asked is how one would feel if Van Halen or some other very good guitarist replaced Jimmy Page in Led Zepplin.
Its not the same band anymore. Although a good one, just not the same.

BTW Van Halen was heavily influenced by Blackmore just like any of the smoking guitarists from that era.

What i was getting at was,they all are good.But if Led Zep was auditioning guitarists-EVH wouldn't get the gig and neither would he in DP.

Whatever happened to some bands from the early '80's - MSG (Michael Schenker Group)? Or another '80's group called Touch ? They are somewhat unknown now,but had good sounding music back then.

I heard on XM yesterday that MSG is going to open up for the Scorpions for some shows.

Now that's cool. I did a quick looksee on youtube and ran across this MSG tune . Haven't heard it in many years and brought back some old memories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0LXs0jVURw

I would've payed to see the Guess Who with Kurt Winter & Greg Lieskew (sp) in place of Randy Bachman. They put out some great material with those two sharing guitar duty. But after they replaced the replacements with yet another guitar player, I considered it a cover band.
Not mentioned here yet that even though Cummings, Bachman and Gary Pederson have gotten back together occasionaly for shows, they could not use the name Guess Who because original bassist Jim Kale owns the rights, and he's being a prick about it.

I Knew Creedence Clearwater Revival toured without Tom Fogerty but not without John.
MikeNown, is this what you were referring to?:
Doug Clifford & Stu Cook have had a band called Creedence Clearwater Revisited, in which they cover all the CCR hits with a different front man. They're not trying to fool anyone and I'm totally OK with it.
And I'd go see them anyday for the chance to meet Doug & Stu. They were my first favorite band and still my favorite American band. I bought alot of their 45s when they were new releases.
I bet if Tom Fogerty were alive, he would have played with CCRevisited also.;)

Actually, he could have provided the lead vocal, being his singing voice sounded almost a dead ringer for his brother. No pun intended.
I bet that would piss off John to no end.:D

Last I knew, Creedence Clearwater Revisited were using the (lefty) lead guitar player from the Cars.

JF was CCR.

I went to see Three Dog Night in 1986 with 3 of the 7 original members:
Corey Wells, Danny Hutton and keyboardist Jimmy Greenspoon.
They were alright, but they couldn't perform most of the songs that are known for Chuck Negron's soulful lead vocal.

In recent years, original guitarist Mike Alsyup (sp) has rejoined their tour, and that is a sentimental improvement but they still need to bury the hatchet and let Negron come back, if he will.:noidea:

Kinda like saying John Kay was Steppinwolf, but point taken.

I didn't know that about The Guess Who. I always thought their "classic lineup" was Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman, since they wrote all the hits!

"These Eyes" (Bachman/Cummings)
"Laughing" (Bachman/Cummings)
"Undun" (Bachman)
"No Time" (Bachman/Cummings)
"American Woman" (Bachman/Cummings/Garry Peterson/Jim Kale)
"No Sugar Tonight" (Bachman)
"Share the Land" (Cummings)

Yep, I agree, John Fogerty WAS Creedence Clearwater. He wrote all of CCR's hits, and did all the vocals. His talent as a songwriter is only surpassed by his voice, a voice described by drummer Kenny Arnoff as "straight from hell....if Satan could sing, he'd sound just like John."

By the way, it's nice to see so many Pontiac fans are classic rock fans! Great discussion guys!

Bachman left in 1970, while American Woman was racing up the charts.

Their first couple albums post Bachman, were excellent. If you ever get a chance, check out the album So Long Banantyne (1971).

The seldom heard top 40 song Hang On to Your Life is smokin.

:focus:

Now those are some great tunes!

Not quite.JF wrote & sang everything.Speaking of John Kay-i met him too.Even have a spare Rickenbacker poster with him if someone is interested.

They sound like they did in '75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZa_A...eature=related