comp xe274 cam how fast?
 

i read a lot of not so good things about this cam for a 400-455 pontiac. im curious to see who here really likes theirs and whats the fastest it can go? (in a street type setup)

If you turbo charge or super charge the motor, probibly quite fast!!
How fast do you want to go?
I can not see a change from a 68 400 4BBl cam picking you up more than 40 HP over stock in my view.

I got mine in the low 13's with one in a heavy car with a 400, ported 6X-8 heads, at 5200ft altitude with a slipping converter (900RPM on the top end).

Johhny, you cars some 800 lbs lighter than his even if both are stock.

i pretty much know that im going to do a 2802 or RAIV type cam i was just curious about this grind with a lower CR motor. whats out there on the street and track and how it works for you.

If its going in a 400 in a 68 CAT none of the 3 are a good choice unless all your interested in is sound effects. Cam for a 400 vs 455 are totaly different character. Stroke difference is main reason why. In fact if I still had my 68 Cat I'd run either the Summit 2800 or Edelbrock "Performer" (depending on compression). Especially with street/highway gears. The 2800 pulls from idle to about 3800(like a freight train) where it levels off to about 4500 (then falls like a rock).
HOWEVER my old 68 bird convert(heavy but not quite as heavy as a Cat) with 2.56 gear out-pulled my freinds 4.10 geared 4 spd 355 SBC 70 Camaro that ran low low 13's in same trim. We never got my car to the track but plenty of deserted highway "tests" left him swearing there was no way it was a 400. I had small tube headers and an RPM intake/thermoquad.

my combo is more than likely be 455, 10-1Cr 6x-4's fully ported,2802, 72 intake, 800qjet, long branch manifolds 2.5 to tail, 2200 ish stall 3.23 posi. look stock front to back (428 ho cat) and runs whatever it runs! lol my buddy had this same combo in a formula with no porting,log manifolds at 3900 race weight and was consistant 7.70's in the 1/8th mile.

IM NOT GOING TO USE THE XE274 just curious what cars run well with it. i hear about a lot that dont! :)

Mikes455Wagon went pretty quick:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ighlight=xe274

very interesting discussion!

I went low 13s with an XE274 in a 400 with unported #48s, an rpm intake, and a 750 holley with ProForm parts, with the pistons down in the hole pretty good. I got it to 12.80s with KRE heads before I built my stroker motor. I think it could have been faster had the block been decked. This was in a 1969 LeMans, full weight, TH400, 3200 stall, 3.90 gears, M/T 275/60 drag radials.

sounds pretty cool mr bird... i just want to put this out there for everyone.. i didnt post these question to start trouble! after the fact my buddy pointed out "man thats beatin a dead horse lol". the XE wars dont need to get started again :)

Why... fast enough to get you asked to leave Wendy's and McDonalds, and not come back.

Haven't been to Dairy Queen yet, but that's next on my list. I hear they are rather accommodating there.

I like the one I got in my Dually truck, it is peaky, but that's fine for the range I use it in.

aczackly!!. my frind did a 12.12 with a (edel headed) stock 455. 3.42 rear 28inch tall tires(mutch to tall) factory weight 71 formula .

Went 11.90s at 3600 lbs in 3200 FT of air shifting at 5000.

mike that thing looks like my moms old 74 malibu wagon. came stock with the 454, at 15 years old that thing left mean burnouts all over the yard. I was a stupid stupid kid,lol now i'm older.

Real track numbers from a very well set up 73 Ventura (same basic deal as my car).

The owners first engine was a 455 with unported 85cc KRE aluminum "D" ports. Never did bust into the 11's with an XE274 camshaft. Stuck in the 12.0's to 12.20's at 110-112mph.

He installed a HR roller cam (Shelf grind from Comp), 236/242/110 and went mid to high 11's with no other changes. For those reading this, the performance improvment was considerably MORE than one would expect from 6 degrees additional .050" duration even in a HR profile.

His car uses 3.73 gears and tight 10" converter, weighs in right at 3400lbs race weight.

He always felt the XE274 camshaft was holding back the combination a bit, since my nearly identical drivetrain set-up (at that time) in the same car a few pounds heavier went 11.64 @ 116mph with a Crower 60919 camshaft.

FWIW, he's taken that vehicle on into the 10's with a set of 310cfm KRE heads and a bit more roller camshaft, something around 244/254/110, nearly as I can remember?

No big secret I'm not a big fan of that line of camshafts, but no need to "bash" them or beat any dead horses at this point, the results we have seen from them speak for themselves.

We did build a 455 with unported Edelbrock 87cc heads and the Crower 60919 camshaft. In a street driven 3900# FB with a Continental 10" converter and 3.90 gears it went mid-11's at 118mph, a solid .6 seconds quicker that RRD's example above......Cliff

Cliff. Hard to compare a hyd roller to a std hyd camshaft as the ramps present a new area of performance.

Remember the ole how many degrees difference with a hyd to solid to roller is there needed to be, theories? Some were at 10 degrees difference depending on the @.050 duration. So saying a dude picked up big numbers going to a hyd roller is really a stretch to compare camshafts.

Just my personal opinion dealing with all types of grinds over the many many years.

274 XE cams are a decent cam for most street wake up engine combos. As always certain combos will pick up more with different profiles or brands depending on what all is done to maximize one's combo. Just a minor change in the ingredient, just like cooking, can make a big difference in the outcome. Good or bad.

I am just gonna go get the 7/8 beat half to death horse and save him from his final death blow. Me and the ol horse will be sitting back watching and minding our own while apples and steaks are compared. AK...a big block Malibu wagon would have been a sweet sleeper to have. Could have surprised a few people in that for sure!

"Cliff. Hard to compare a hyd roller to a std hyd camshaft as the ramps present a new area of performance."

Agreed.

The 73 Ventura at 3400lbs race weight ran 12.0's, showing about 450-460hp. About what I would have expected from the XE274 camshaft in a 455 build with unported KRE's.

The 236/242/110 HR cam made 497hp in a smaller 428 that we built here with KRE heads. I suspect at least that much in a 455 with unported KRE's. 494hp at that race weight pushed my car to 11.64, than on to 11.52 at 514hp.

The XE274 cam in that same build was actually making right at 450-460hp, EXACTLY where I would have expected it to be, and the drag strip numbers confirmed it.

The reason I say "EXACTLY" where I expected, is that it has LESS seat to seat timing, and considerably less overlap than the 60919 cam that we dyno and drag strip tested in the same basic engine.

Since it's a flat cam, and not a roller, you can't get around the basic laws of physics.......a SMALLER cam in the same engine is going to make LESS peak HP, and probably quite a bit less average power as well, at least with those type of cams in that specific .050" range.......FWIW.....Cliff

so does this cam actually work better with some combos than the crower 69019

I'm running low 13s, high 12s with a 9.3 compression 400 with XE274 & ported iron heads. Idles at 850 with 10" vacuum. Car's race weight is 3705. Seems to run best when shifted about 5200. Keep in mind I've got a lot of gear and converter.

I'm gonna hit it with a small shot from a plate kit and see what it does. Since the XE cams build cylinder pressure I've got to be careful I don't get into detonation with it.

This cam is better than the 919 in a 400 with less than 10:1 compression. There may be better crowers than the XE274 for a similar engine, but the 919 is too much on the street, imho.

rougher idle, needs more stall and gear and worse MPG just to not be able to out perform a a Summit 2802 cam that does it with less gear, less stall and better manners and mileage..mmm and costs less and pulls more revs too..huh!

I've got a 26yr old .503 Engle in my bird and a .497/.507 Ultradyne that i'd put up against this XE274 any day in any combo... ;)

Pontiac Larry..... Do you mean "out perform" as from a performance standpoint as in horsepower production capability and better track performance ? Or only out perforam as in better driveability?

Bret..... what are the specs for those two cams you like. Valve lift means very little in comparision.

In a 3850# car with 3.55 gears, 406 cid did 13.1 in the 1/4. The cam behaved weird in that it fell off at 5200 rpm and then seemed to pick back up around 5600 rpm. Same combo with RAIV cam I did 12.70 shifting at 6000 rpm.

Steve...the engle is in the low 290 deg advertised area... i believe 106 lobe sep... the ultradyne is roughly the same.... im not near the cam card, or i would give the the specifics on the UDyne... My Dad bought the engle when i was very young.... who knows what happened to that card. Im making tons of torque with both of these cams and driveability is excellent... havent had them in a 400... but im guessing they would work just the same with the powerband moving up a tiny bit.

I mean both Steve, I personally ran as quick as 12.1 (7.7 1/8th) spinning dry cracked 26x10 ET's with a 3.23 geared 80 Formula true beater street car in 2003 that had a 14 yr old stock rod 455, iron Dport,iron intake,qjet,11" 2800 stall , I had built in 1989 that had been runnings 11-12 sec ET's for the whole time. Just getting the heads ported and new rings would have it in the 11's all day long. In a race car application you could go faster. Seen XE274's in fairly radical setups hitting a wall in the 11.9-12.1 range as the best performing ones and other not out of low 13's.

Yhen you tried both cams in the same or VERY similar set up regarding engine and chassis ?

I never ran the XE myself just seen many many threads on here and a few people I know as well(I am not interested in wasting my money on one). The guy with buick wagon (full drag car) is dialed in real good , hitting hard a barely gets 11's. I will say a similar cam and gear swap that is comparable when a buddy had his 455 powered 79 TA at the 1/8th mile track. He had 2.73's and a Summit 2801 224/234 114 and ran 8.3 , switched to a lunati 230/230 110 and 3.23's ran rougher , drank gas , more rev's on highway and it still ran 8.3 but lost on all positive aspects(economy,driveability,etc) .

The Summit in a 455 would pull right up to the 5600 rev limiter and sorry if you have the same engine that dies at 5000-5200 verses the same engine with a little more revability, its gonna out MPH / ET the low revving tune and low end torque is better with less intake duration at the same compression ratio everytime.

..
Just in case this starts of again as a basing again from people who are on the other side of the fensh.
chek this link http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26517
ofcours parts work diferend, in diferend combo,s build bij diferend people

No bashing intended but why build more radical combos that under perform compared to many known milder,quicker,faster and sometimes cheaper combos

it is my understanding that the xe cam line is just that on the oposid side of radical,
and stil produce quiker faster more driveble combo,s. ecspecialy with lower compression compeard to the old Ram air IV technologi..

In the smaller XE cams installed in a smog 7.6-8.2:1 Poncho I could see that being a good torque building setup and good response but in the case of the XE274 230/236 110 lsa 106 icl and a 041 RAIV 230/240 113.5 lsa and 112 icl , the Ram IV is going to idle better. A poorly setup or mismatched RAIV setup can be blamed for poor performance and the less revving EX274 installed and feel better in that mis matched RAIV combo shure but a properly setup RAIV street car can run mid 11's which the XE has failed to match at the same .050 230 degrees.

Larry whats this then!!

Went 11.90s at 3600 lbs in 3200 FT of air shifting at 5000.
__________________
1982 Buick Regal Estate Wagon-455 NA, stock everything except for cam, intake, and carb. 7.54 @90 1/8th, 11.95 @ 112 1/4 w/ 1.56 60 ft running through mufflers at 3600 lbs.

Did you not seewhere I gave credit to that drag car above? Thats the one the broke the wall of 12.0-12.1 but its setup to leave real hard as a true drag car would.

"The guy with buick wagon (full drag car) is dialed in real good , hitting hard a barely gets 11's."

That is the only 11 sec combo seen and its not a street car. Seen several north texas pontiacs run mid 11's with street/strip cars and a RA IV cam

my stock e-head 462 made 470hp with the xe274, i was planning on pulling it this winter for the 60919.

Larry thanks for the response.

My notes indicate the Summit hyd flat tappet cam with 282/292 advertised and 224/234 at .050 / .465/.488 lift / 114LS and the similar Comp cam as 274/286 advertised and 230 /236 at .050 / .487/.490 lift / 110 LS. Both are within one degree of each other regarding overlap, the Comp has more valve lift. This assuming seat duration rated at .006 tappet lift.

In your opinion, and for discussion here, if you built a .030-over 455 with mild ported cleaned up iron heads and 9.5 compression inconjunction with a factory intake properly port matched, and a nice 750 cfm carb wouldn't each have similar driveability out on the street. And this assuming a proper converter choice and gearing suitable for use with both cams in its intended oeratiing range ?

"my stock e-head 462 made 470hp with the xe274, i was planning on pulling it this winter for the 60919."

ry57pont- Curious, and for conversation around the coffe table here.... why the change and what do you expect to gain.

And your compression ratio ?

8.30s...we got stock 3800s down here running 7.70s NA so I would be upset with that too. You act like I have a promod car here or something. No tube chassis hiding under the skin. Still a heavy car with stock suspension and little tiny 9" tires. Personally I would like to get a few thousand passes out of my motor and if only turning it 5000 vs 5800 is what it takes, so be it. The car performs well and has brought home something everywhere it has been this year. I guess next year I will be running a LS and glide to run some hot rod. If I broke the barrier with an XE cam, some fancy parts in my tube chassis wagon easily go 10.90s.

"my stock e-head 462 made 470hp with the xe274, i was planning on pulling it this winter for the 60919."

We built a 455 here with unported 87cc Edelbrock heads and the Crower 60919 cam. It made 505hp/551tq on KRE's dyno. (Some consider KRE's dyno a tad conservative.)

The engine was installed in a 71 FB at 3900lbs, 10" converter, 3.90 gears. It ran 11.50's at 118mph on it's first outing, driven to the track that day as well.

An XE274 cam in the exact same engine would be hard pressed to make that much power simply because it gives up over 30 degrees off seat valve timing, less overlap, tighter LSA, and earlier intake valve closing point. It's going to run 3-5 tenths slower with the same drivetrain set-up, IMHO.

The "propoganda" that surrounds those particular lobes, is that you can give up off seat valve timing, reduce overlap with quick closing/opening events, tighten up the LSA, and add "better" lobes and get it all back with more "area under the curve". Sounds good when you are advertising camshafts, however, withing the limits of the lifter diameter and flat cam lobes, it isn't going to make up all that ground in actual use. This comment doesn't even take into consideration that the really fast seat timing events can produce valvetrain instability "issues" which are a real possibility from these lobe profiles. We've witnessed this first hand, right on the dyno, and there have been plenty of examples of this happening if anyone takes a look at some of the dyno results that have been posted on this and other websites........Cliff

My frinds car 69 firebird 400 . Kaufman eagle stroker rotating asembly 461ci ross pistons. Kaufman Edelheads, 1.65 roller rockers, Torker manifold 60919 Cam." elec fuel injection, 3:91 rear ratio, , 4 speed auto, P 275 /40R17 MT drag radials, 12,00 sec...

Other Frinds car 1971 Formula 455 ho. ""used""to have that car craft bold on parts combo TWR pistons, stok rotating asembly 455 engine
edel heads (out of the box) 1.65 roller rockkers xe274 ,performer rpm manifold 850 demon carb, 3.42 rear ratio, 4 speed auto. 295 /65R15, BF goodrich drag radial, 12,12 sec.
Both cars stock weight full interiors elect windows.Botch afthermarket leaf springs, koni shocks.
. Its been known that usa bought cars/ engine combo,s drive a averich of 0.7 to 0.8 sec slower overhere in the Netherlands .....



PS some XE lobe propaganda ..............

This morning, Corey Thompson called. His '70 Firebird went 10.38 a couple times this weekend, over 129 MPH. Pump gas, 3,400 lbs. 461, "junk" Eagle crank (540 passes so far...), junk Comp XE cam, junk Edelbrock open plenum, junk AED Holley... Just think how quick he'd be with a factory iron crank and intake, Ram Air IV cam and a Q-Jet!!! Sorry. Just tired of hearing about how much better engines built with those parts are, and ignoring how their cars are only a second or so slower... (:-

An XE274 cam or a larger XE grind going that fast ??

...just asking because this thread is about the 274 cam.

why the change? winter boredom. actually i planned on pulling it to have my cast eagle crank checked for cracks and fix a oil leak. and based on reading many of the posts i thought the 60919 would be a cheap 25hp. i actually do not have a good understanding why, but for the little cost of a cam and dyno time i thought it would be a fun expierement. i can always go back to the xe. or.... i thought i would call SD and see about a custom. i would really like to get into the mid 11's and think 25-30hp more might do it. - Ryan

ps. does the 60919 have a smoother idle? for me, the idle lump lump is part of the whole expierence, i was so disapointed when i put my x over exhaust in, it mellowed out the exhaust alot. thats also why i wont give up the third pedal.

Do I need to build my 63 Lemans drag car with a Summit cam to show its 11 sec potential? All I am saying is a 224 int with a 114 lsa icl 109 has a better idle, vacuum , mileage and driveability versus a 230int 110 lsa 106 icl and if RRDave thinks ruinning 12.0 with Alum heads is good in a Fbird, its not. I would call that a turd and the XE cam is holding it back. The Buick wagon is a great running car, I am making no knocks at it.
Its an generally underachiever cam and people are hypnotized by the brand name and advertising wanting a sound before best bang for the buck. Wheres the 11.5 street car with a XE274???? Silence is deafening... 42 year old cams can do it.

I think the underachievmend lias with the folks that cant make them work!!!.. the above post is a part from pontiac zone post from CVMS..
this is the part i left out
Last weekend, Rick Holladay and his old Goat went 10.48 @ 129.5 (TWICE!!). 434 CID, AED Holley, T-2... E-heads ported here... 3,510 lbs...

Gene Kinch's "Gallopin' Goat" went 9.93 @ 134... Iron d-ports, 20 year old UD cam... (:-

Lastly, Dan (PinBallDan) got thrown out of Richmond Dragway AGAIN... For going 11.20 without a cage. More of those junk parts... (:- 20K street mles and over 250 passes.

If you build a purpose car everyting is posible. a simple 11.50 statemend with a ram air IV cam isend doing it eather..

Cant we all just get along? :) I dont know anything bout these XE274 cams, but, ive had alot of experience with Comp Solids and small Hyd .500 lift UD cams and Engle cams of the same size. Im used to running about 11:1 compression or more. I believe my engines with 11:1 were reduced to 9 1/2:1 would run very close to the same with the cams im runnin. Id lose some e.t., but, not too much. .01-.02 max. And i would still be
runnin 11.70s in the bird and 12.40s in the 62 Cat that weighs 4100lbs. Both of these cars have unported 62s and 48s on them. So either the xe274 cam is total junk or the combos havent been nailed right on the head with some of the guys that are having issues getting good e.t. out of them. Probably converters or gears , exhaust, quality of headwork(valve job), engine tune are all playing a part. Surely the cam cant be that bad if comp makes it. My stuff works so good, i wouldnt change it for anything. And, i wasnt callin anyone SHirley!! hehehe! Also... you either have a chassis set up for racing or you dont.... that makes a hell of alot of difference. JMO

Nothing wrong with the 274XE cam. For a street driver. Or occasional trip to the track to have fun. Just tune on the combo when it's done and go have fun.

Our Ventura ran 11.88@115 with the xe274 cam.

i read that whole thread and do they have a bias against the RAIV. they say its junk they love the xe274 over there. i got a RAIV for my car. i just hope i made the right choice.