79 Formula WS6 Question....
 

Could you order the 4-wheel disc brake option outside of the WS6 option in a 79 Formula?

Yes. It was the J65 RPO code.

Available on both the 2bbl & 4bbl 301 or just the 4bbl?

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that all you had to do was tell the dealer you wanted the upgrade in brakes and they would get it. The only way to be sure would be to get a PHS and see if it comes up in the RPO code listing (unless you have the original build sheet).

According to Pontiac Selling Facts Sept 1978, J65 (power brakes,front & rear disc) were available on ALL W66 Formulas with 4bbl.301/350c V8 engines & WS4 Trans ams for 150.00.

There were included with WS6 option.

301/305 2bbl & V6 were NOT eligible.

Thanks guys, that's the information I was looking for. So no guarantee it's a WS6 car, but the 4-Wheel disc does guarantee it's the 4bbl version (since the engine code doesn't differentiate, and the Formula could be ordered with either).

Now the follow-up question.....when delivered in a 4spd Formula, how anemic is the 301 @ 150 HP??? I've found a super low mileage original paint/interior car optioned pretty nicely that I can pick up fairly reasonably. But will the ride/drive be enjoyable, or merely look nice?

If you give me the engine code from vin,we should be able to figure out the carb size.

Which trans does it have,Saginaw or ST-10?

Engine code is W, don't know which trans. Would the disc rear only come as a posi or could it be open?

does anyone have a copy of a phs with the disc rear without the ws6? i dont think i have ever seen one myself.

i personally have never seen a disc rear that wasnt posi. (not that they didnt make it). i have had several of the 301 4 speed t/a's over the years and all of them that i had, have had the disc rear and they all had 3:08 gears instead of the 3:23 like the 400 cars got. i wander if you could have ordered them with the 3:23????

Were they fun to drive or slugs?

Boss,
If it is the Sierra Copper Formula that I think you are considering............who cares if it is a slug or not. That is a very clean low mile car at a very good price. Buy it!

Perfect candidate for a swap!
As for 4 wheel disc, There were 33,819 '79 WS6 cars and 34,203 J65 4 wheel disc cars. So figuring all WS6 were 4 wheel disc then there were 384 cars built with 4 wheel disc that were not WS6 equipped. I've never seen one myself, but apparently they're out there.

We need to know what transmission is in the car in order to answer that question.

1979 T/A with 301/4 speed came with a super LOW 1st gear.(3.44)

MOST other 4 speeds in Trans ams were 2:64 or 2:88.

The 3:44 low gear made the 301 pull like a 200 hp 400 in first & second,then you had a BIG rpm drop going into 3rd & fell right out of the power band.

It's almost like a 5 speed with no 3rd gear.

The Saginaw likely had a 3:00 1st,so it wouldn't pull NEAR as hard.

If it's a NICE car & affordable,just go BUY IT. (clutch pedals in 79-81's are FEW & FAR between!)

This is an interesting thread and a great learning experience for me on these 301 4-speed Formulas.

We really need The Boss (Chris) to chime back in to tell us more about this car. If it is indeed the Sierra Copper Formula that I am thinking Chris is trying to buy, this particular car is a non-A/C car and was built June 1979. From that info can you tell what transmission the car may have?

I agree clutch pedal '79 -'81 F-body cars are few and far between. BUY IT!

Just ordered the PHS.

I'd say the 2bbl. 301 got a Saginaw & the 4bbl. got a ST-10.

Let us know what it is.

Pretty sure gto4door knows the car - small world.

Sierra Copper over Camel Tan Custom Velour shipped in June of 1979, MSRP $8,190.55.

W50 Appearance package w/stripes
L37 4.9 Litre (301) 4BBL
G80 Differential, Limited Slip
AK1 Belts, Custom Color Keyed
C49 Defroster, Electric Rear Window
U17 I/P Tachometer, Rally Gauges
A01 Glass, all windows soft ray
BS1 Insulation, Additional Acoustical
TR9 Lamp Group
B37 Mats, Front & Rear Floor
B80 Molding, Roof Drip
U75 Power Antenna
AU3 Power Door Locks
UN9 Radio Accommodation Package
N33 Steering Wheel, Tilt
WS6 Special Performance Package
CD4 Windshield Wipers, Controlled Cycle
B18 Custom Trim Group - Hobnail Velour

No transmission specified - I would guess because it was a $0.00 cost option - Seller says it's a close ratio, so whatever that one is. Radio prep & power Antenna is interesting - there is a stock looking AM/FM 8-track in it now.

From what I've been told the car was ordered for the dealer's daughter's HS graduation. She didn't drive it much, and the second owner drove it even less. Current mileage is 43,000. I think I'm going to buy it. :D

gto4door - PM me any details you might have on the car that I've missed....Thanks.

Just got an e-mail from Jim Mattison answering the question for me:

Sure sounds like a sweet one. Post a couple if you get the chance.

Wow sounds like a great car. I have a 79 ws6/auto with the 273 gears.Yea,it's a slug.but it's a beautifully balanced car with the 301 sitting up front. I have recorded as high as 21 mpg on longer trips if i keep my foot out of it. Almost didn't but this car 10 years ago because of the 301,but it was a low mileage,super clean car from the original owner.
BUY IT - it's a Pontiac with a stick - doesn't get much better than that.



steve

I have a 79 Formula W-code.
W code means 4 bbl 301 NA.

Mine also has the ST-10 and 3.08 rear.

Rebuilt the motor, added headers and 2.5" X-pipe dual exhaust,
it is Not a slug. It will smoke in 1st all day long, break loose in
2nd and even chirp 3rd. Poncho's aren't high-winders like the SBCs
but the low end is there and that's what pushes me back in the seat.

I like the 301. Sure, it doesn't have the torque of a 400, but as a combo
of weight, performance and gas mileage, plus the last true poncho motor,
i would keep a numbers-matching formula as such.

VIN does indeed differentiate whether it's a 301 2V or 4V, Chris. W = 4V, and Y = 2V.

Nice find, by the way, and please post some pics.

Check your e-mails, by the way. I forwarded you one at gto4door's request.

Here are some pictures....

My 79 4bbl 301 WS6 Formula was no slug. It would take a 79 4bbl 302 Ford Thunderbird off the line and out run it. At least mine did a number of times. :D LOL

Just looked at my window sticker and the WS6 package was 434.00. Space Saver spare was .10. With WS6 package rear disc brakes on mine, it was a posi unit. Cost was 63.00.

List without options.... 6,204.45
Options total.... 1526.10
Total cost.... 7,985.55
My cost.... 6,500.

I wouldn't buy that car if I were you.

Looks like the paint is flaking off the back window moldings.

You NEVER know what ELSE could be WRONG with it! :D

That one is strange - the side pieces are painted, the top, bottom & front window trim are not. He didn't have an explanation for it - which should they be - painted or natural?

It also needs a new shifter knob, the numbers inside the plastic have faded. Seat backs and the driver's side rear interior panel will most likely need replacing too - just oxidized/chalked over time.

Mine has the WS6 and the G80 Limited Slip too, no space saver spare - says there is a 5th wheel like the ones on the car in the trunk.

MSRP was $8,190.55 on mine - I paid less. :D

As I recall,ALL 79-81 Trans ams & Formula's came with the black window trim,however,it appears that they never bothered prepping (scuffing) the shiny trim prior to painting it black.

That's why the paint came off.

I had an 80 full ,load Turbo Trans am brand new & the window trim looked like your Formula does when it was 2 years old.

Can they be powder coated? Flat or gloss?

Then again - it matches the roof edge molding so.....

I just prep /scuff & rattle can them with SEM trimpaint (#39243,I think?)

They look GREAT & original.(will match)

You're not really going to actually DRIVE it,are you?

Wow that's a great looking car!! Please drive it and keep it as-is!

Sure - why not! :D

very nice ride.
1 in 1590 built. (hard top)
mine is 1 in 1530 built ( t-top )

not a easy car to come across. that would be less then 30 cars per state.

are you serious about the window mouldings or is that a joke??? in 1979, the dealer had to repaint my moldings 3 times while it was under warranty. they started peeling off when the car was less than one month old when i washed it at the car wash with the high pressure sprayer.

they should be painted. see my post before this for a real explanation.

That should be easy enough.....provided I don't ruin them taking them off. :rolleyes:

Well the day I drove my new 79 home one of the snowflake wheels was already showing signs of having the clear coat separate from the aluminum. They replaced it with a new one. After about 3 years all of them had clear coat problems on the bare aluminum part of the 8 inch wheels. Typical quality issues back then.

Warren

I have a 79 Z code formula with a 3.23 non posi disc rear in it. since posi was an option on a formula, somehow this car missed that chesk box. the PHS confirmed it.

Not to argue with you,but was'nt the Posi part of the WS6 option which was manditory on the "Z" coded cars ( T/A & Formula )along with the 4spd and 4 wheel disc brake set up and 8in Snowflake's.

The rear discs on my car came from an open 2.73 10 bolt rear. Not sure what it came from, but it had the pontiac yoke on it, so I'm guessing it was a formula...

That is a gorgeous car. How much? I'd really like to find a late formula like that for a cruiser, probably wouldn't even swap out the 301...

I guess not on a formula. I have 2 79 Z code formulas, one has G80 posi, one does not. I have PHS on both, one PHS shows posi, one PHS does not. one without also did not came with a tach? go figure, U17 ip tach was an still an option...t-top car with quite a few options too.

Not to ruffle anyone's feathers but.... when I ordered my 79 Formula, I was told by the dealer that the WS6 option only came with 4 wheels discs, 15x8 snowflakes and a posi rear. IIRC my rear was a 3.48 or 3.23 posi... something like that. The gear ratio was the only option in the WS6 package. Dealer was Hutchinson Pontiac Sales in Rouses Point, NY.

I think ws6 came with 4 wheel discs and posi. However, both were also available separately on the formula along with apparently the ws7 option which was ws6 without the rear discs. So, you could technically order just about every combination of with/without 15x8 rims, discs and posi rear, except I don't think there was any way to get 15x8 rims without posi.

In 78 WS6 cars didn't get rear disc brakes

and in 79 GM ran out of disc brake rear ends, and it was called a WS7 package

I always love the post were someone says "I was told" .....OK then...here you go..PHS options from both cars...you be the judge...fluke, maybe? very possible, but these cars were far from perfect, awhile back I had a Z code 79 TA made 1-2-79 (van nuys car) that had the pass quarter installed almost 3/4 of an inch further back then the drivers side...

Here's mine, has the G80 Limited slip....wish it had the removable roof hatches too! ;)

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...2&d=1292972750

This is exActly right I have 79 4 speed 301 car and there geared low from first and second are surpisingly quick and once u hit third there dogs. My car is Borg warner tranny. But I spun a bearing on the 301 and pulled and put in a 455. This is my opinion but the 301 has to be the worst Pontiac V8 made JMHO.

Pax