Napa has a cast impeller 11 bolt water pump!
 

All,

I have received a lot of help from these boards, so I really hope this post helps some of you. Anyway, I almost gave up finding a reasonably priced 11 bolt water pump with a cast impeller, but just when I gave up I went to Napa and checked out the one they had in stock. Figuring I'd buy it no matter what since my car has been with the pump off for too long now. Anyway, attached are some pics of the pump. I am really impressed with the design so far! It was only 43 or 46 dollars, can't remember, and has a lifetime warranty. I took a picture of the box so you could get the part number.


It may take me a while to actually get the pump on (first time for me) but I will post an update on my overheating problem (yes I have hammered the divider plate).

Thanks again!

Edit: the dime is for reference on the vanes' size

box
 

here's a picture of the box

Who is the ]actual 'manufacturer' of it, and where was it made or put together.

If made correctly you should not have to hammer on any divider plate to get the proper clearance. That's one of my pet peeves about all this with Pontiac water pumps. It wasn't done back then, it shouldn't have to be done now.

What gets my goat is that Edelbrock is making an aluminum 11 bolt Pontiac water pump that come with the divider plate. All matched so it works like it should.... so they imply. Haven't seen one yet, but I hope to in a few days.

Yep, the Edelbrock unit is part number 8856 or here is a link from Summit. $221 Yikes.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-8856/?rtype=10

I guess I'd like to know what that extra $190 buys me. I just bought the one from NAPA and it was $30. No info on the box about where it was made, but it has a cast part number and date stamp on it like I'd expect from a original. It does say it's rebuilt, so maybe they are just putting new bearings in OEM units.

I should know in a couple days or so if it makes a difference on my Catalina wagon. It will be the only change in the system.

Rebuilts will have a new seal and bearing. Possibly the impeller changed too to one with shorter height blades, which is not good.

Thing with the rebuilts is this.... Does the divider plate have the correct clearance? Plus is the blades on the impeller the correct height? And if not, how much do you have to beat on the plate to get the correct impeller and divider plate clearance?

We are in the process with Cardone to get this issue resolved for both the 8 and 11 bolt water pumps. And they are willing to work with us and PY to get this done. So hang in there until the 1st week of March after PY and I meet with them.

Good news is on the way, so stay tuned to the stickied 'Chalk up one more for the cast impeller' thread, or a totally new thread. ;)

BTW... This will be good not only for us Pontiac guys, but good for the Buick and Olds guys too.

Well guys and Gals,

We have good news to report today!

Gary Carr (GT182) and myself spent 34 minutes on the conference call with Therese Lal (Product Management - Pumps) & Abraham George (Head Engineer) at Cordone Industries. They were very receptive to working with us to get to the root of the problem with their water pumps. We then called Mike Spizziri in PY's Tech Support, explained to him where we were at on this, and he graciously added PY's support to get with Gary for a "show and tell" session tentatively set for week after next.

Looks like we stand a VERY good chance at getting some CORRECT water pumps out to the world for you fellows to rely on! I'll let Gary fill in the blanks.

:jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :usa2:

Charles

Getting it done Gary and Charles! Wow....
Thx

Cross yer fingers... we still have to get the divider plate problem resolved too.

"How do you eat an Elephant?
One bite at a time."

I'd say very carefully. Especially if it's still moving. ;) You didn't mention if it was dead or alive. LOL

nor whether eating elephant is a wise move. :o

True, as it could mean losing shade in the summer and warmth in the winter. :rolleyes: Hey, don't blame me Charles started it all. LOL

If memory serves and ten years passing things haven't changed, the pumps are either NAPA's own rebuilder Rayloc or A1 Cardone. Rayloc is down south somewhere (in US) not sure where Cardone is doing theirs, I think it was way south.

Joe

Joe, Cardone is about 30 minutes north of me in Philly, on Whitaker Ave. I'm not sure but as I understand it they rebuild pumps there too.

To resurrect an old thread... Thanks a bunch for posting this! I got one of the new Napa pumps, and it has the cast impeller. Hopefully this (and the divider plate mod) will help alleviate my overheating problems. I wanna drive this thing for the summer!

update
 

do you have the napa part #?

thanks,


Gerry C.

PN 43102. It was $46 here in Phoenix. My '66 has a '70 400 in it, so it has the 11-bolt water pump. An older 8-bolt is PN 43122.

I went to my local Napa a while back (March) and they said they could order the cast impeller pump for my '72 Luxury LeMans. When it came in it was stamped steel. I finally lucked out with a "new" cast impeller pump from Ames Performance. No mods to the plate were necessary; the gap was right at .060" .

Karl

:usa2:

Are the pump housing cast or alum . if this helps i have 2 new cast housing with cast impellers that i will sell for 35 dollars plus shipping. i am lookiing for alum housing cast impeller pumps

I know this is an old thread, but someone asked who makes the NAPA TFW 43102 water pumps. I have been checking into them and have discovered that the pumps are made by Gates. The Gates 43102 is the same pump. You can go to the Gates website and they actually advertise this fact. I posted in this old thread in case anyone else is like me and searching for a good pump. By the way, you can buy the Gates on Amazon for $28 compared to $46 at NAPA.
http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...cation_id=3006

Sorry to bring an old post back to life,
Dale

Speaking of an old post, it's been a year and 4 months since Charles posted about the meeting at Cardone......

Frankly, I doubt we will ever see correct pumps from them. I'm a skeptic.

George

No need to apologize for providing a good service to other members here.

You should bring this old post back to life and thanks for posting the other info about the Gates/NAPA pumps and the Amazon pricing, all good info especially when we're going into the part of the year when the hot weather will be affecting these pumps and engines.

I'm like George, I said they (Cardone) probably wouldn't deliver and as of yet they haven't.

Speaking of Cardone, I called them to ask if they had any 11 bolt pumps for Pontiacs that had a cast iron impeller and was told no. So much for them offering a cast iron version of their pump.
Dale

I've not heard a word from Cardone. They were doing the correct 8 bolts pumps... I have one and was told they have others. But these other correct pumps were mixed in with the ones we don't want. I'll try and give them a call tomorrow morning and see what in hell is going on.

I'll also find out about the 11 bolt pumps.... if I can.

I got the pump on my car from Napa. I have had it for a few years. 11bolt. I DID have to clearance the divider plate.

I have not had any issues so far.

I wish the Evans pump was not so expensive!!!!

The Evans would be my first choice also, but way too expensive. If they would make their price more competitive they would sell more pumps. Even though the NAPA pump has the smaller vanes, I am really attracted to the fact it has a lifetime warranty and I can return it locally if it fails instead of having to mail it to who knows where.

Dale

DITTO!!!!!

A different search on Ebay provides some interesting results. Nice pump for 25$!!!!!! Look at the vanes!! WELL worth the 25$!!! Wrong color though...LOL!!!:eek:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380382187796...84.m1438.l2649

Wow, nice find. I did some cross referencing and it comes out to be an Airtex AW975 that fits Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac. That is if the AW975 on the box is really what the pump is. All of the other numbers I can't find. And, I don't understand the raised area were the casting number is, unless it is just an optical illusion from the angle of the picture. I also can't find the casting number 30799 anywhere and it won't cross reference to any GM pumps. The inside area passages also seem smaller than my 76 488296 pump. If I knew the seals had not dried up and gone bad it would be worth the $35 to get and repaint, or to just get the impeller, but the shaft could be a different size depending on the application. The seller doesn't seem to know much about it and his other items he sells are not car parts, they are antique collectables. HUMMMM. Decisions Decisions:)

Dale

Bad thing about all these water pumps you see advertised and for sale is..... they don't show a side view so you can see the vane height and contour. The ones Charles and I have are the correct imopellers for the 8 bolt pumps. If I can ever get the correct part number from Cardone, then you can order one thru them or your auto parts store that carries Cardone pumps. And yes, we were told they were doing the correct impeller for the 11 bolt pump too.

Update:
I called Cardone up in Philly today, three times. No answer but I did leave a message. I don't really expect a return call but you never know. I'll be sending out an email to my contact tomorrow. Hopefully I'll get an answer that way. If not.. then all is not lost.... there's is another option that's being worked on, but I can't say by whom or with what company. Right now tho it's the best option we have going.

I have been in contact with Chris at Arthur Gould and he said they could rebuild my 76 pump and put on the proper, original, long vane impeller. Even though my engine is a 69 I am not worried about matching numbers because it is in a 65 GTO so the car will never be numbers matching. He also said for me to send my divider plate with the pump and he would ensure the plate was properly clearanced with the pump. This is really sounding like one of the best options. I have a really good solid core, it just has a stamped impeller and is leaking so it needs rebuilt. It is not a 69 but I know it is not cracked or ate up with corrosion and has absolutely no rust.

Another option is with Water Pump Man. He has original cores with the proper impeller that he will rebuild for you. Right now I am waiting to hear back from him on what cores he has available.

The other option is to get a core from another PY member that has the proper impeller then send it to one of these guys and have them rebuild it. This is the most expensive way to get an original impeller but it is still a lot cheaper than an Evans pump. I originally started looking on the forums for a pump and thought I would get it rebuilt locally, but no one in my town rebuilds water pumps anymore. So that really put the brakes on that idea.

Like I said before, it would be a lot easier if Evans would just drop their price a little so they were more competitive price wise. This water pump issue is actually more difficult than deciding on a cam:)

Dale

Email sent to Cardone this morning. I came right out and told them everyone thinks they dropped the ball on us. I either p!ssed them off or lit a fire. Hopefully I'll hear something on Monday or get a phone call.

Groovy. I would be willing to buy one. Even though my Napa pump work well, I would be willing to swap it out and try it. What does it take an hour plus 50$..

If it drops temps 5* it would be worth it!!!

Gary,
Let me know what you find out. If they can actually come up with an 11 bolt with the proper impeller, not the cut down version, I would buy a new one versus sending my current one off to get rebuilt.
Dale

Have seen some 11 bolts new GM units on ebay just put in this # 12309445 , cast impeller looks a bit different that the earlier ones .

I was able to get a 11 bolt pump with the original larger impeller from Michael Scott at waterpumpman.com rebuilt and ready to go. He has cores that he rebuilds and sells. I was not concerned about the proper casting number or date since this is a 69 428 in a 65 GTO so he was able to work a deal for a pump in great shape that cost me about the same as sending a pump off to get it rebuilt. I should have the pump later this week and I'll let you know how it looks. But, I thought this was a great option versus getting a new pump with a cut down cast impeller, or a piece of Chinese crap from the local part store, or paying $185 plus $15 shipping to Evans for one of theirs.

Dale

Dale, is there a part number on the original cast impeller on that pump you got? And can you post it or PM it to me. That will help us immensely.

Called Cardone today and got an email back too... Says they are work in it all. I'm going to call again sometime tomorrw if I can.

As soon as it comes in I will post it. It should be here tomorrow or Thursday.
Dale

Just an FYI, waterpumpman has a 9796351 that I believe is a 69 short neck model on ebay for $239. He says this particular one is rare but I'm posting it so that you can see what the impeller looks like.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PONTIAC-GTO-...item48424c6c48

Boy, that looks right!

That's what they all should look like instead of the cut-down diameters of some of the aftermarket versions.

george

I talked to him about that one. He said that was for a 69 Judge, I think the casting ends in 351. I told him I wanted one with that same impeller but a normal 11 bolt pump; I wasn't concerned on the casting number or date code. He is shipping me a rebuilt 488296 casting with a 1976 date code. We will see in a couple of days if the impeller is the same. I am really hoping.
Dale

That pump looks great. But anything over 50$ for a water pump is steep!!!

What we need most of all is a part number for the original cast impeller itself. For both 8 and 11 bolt impellers. I've seen some originals that have it, but that was a long long time ago.

BTW... I was gone all day today and didn't get to call Cardone. I'm going to hold off and wait for the part numbers as they will really help things roll along.... I hope.

Keep your fingers crossed that the one I have coming in still has the original impeller. I will let you know one way or the other.
Dale

Dale, what's the ETA for your pump? If yours looks good I plan to give him a call for a price and to see if he can set me up with a 9796351 11-bolt with a short snout.

What's interesting is that waterpumpman is in Michigan not far from me so if things work out I may be going there.

Mark

Mark,
It is supposed to be here tomorrow. As a matter of fact he currently does have a 351 pump ready to go. There is a picture of it on post #38 of this thread. Here is the ebay listing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PONTIAC-GTO-...item48424c6c48
His name is Michael Scott and his number is 248-225-0625. Most of the time you have to leave a message but he is very good about returning calls. He is also very good about shipping. I paid him with PayPal on one afternoon and it shipped the next morning. I will let you know what the impeller looks like when it comes in. If it looks correct I will take pictures and post the measurements along with any casting numbers on the impeller. He said the impeller looks like the 351 he has for sale on ebay, I sure hope so.
Dale

Yeah, that 351 is the one I posted so I saw it. I definitely don't need a proper date coded casting so hopfully he can rebuild one for me for less than $239.

Mark

Mark,
Sorry, I should have looked closer and realized you were the one that posted that.
Dale

I just had an interesting chat with Mike at Waterpumpman when he returned my call. He was really surprised that I am interested in a cast impeller and said that he generally throws them away when they come in and uses stamped for his rebuilds because they are cheap and he believes they work good. I told him that it is my understanding that many Pontiac guys have proven that a cast impeller with tall veins and a properly fitted divider plate results in lower engine temp's. He told me that he can give me whatever I want so if I want a cast impeller with tall veins it's no problem... but, he did say that the tall veins are prone to bits breaking off so he wanted to warn me about that.

Unfortunately I have an early 69 short pump so he doesn't have a core but as long as I don't need an original I can give him any short casting and he'll rebuild it with a cast impeller.

Mark

Wow, that surprises me that he said that. He never gave me any indication that he did not believe in the cast impellers. He also acted like it was no big deal and that he had a lot of them. Oh well, you never know what line people give you to make a sell.
Dale