Who here is self employed?
 

I was reading the "When was the last time you got a raise?" thread http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=659361 and was struck by a number of the responses.

I realize good work demands good pay, and that with difficult times come compromise. However what struck me was the number of times people mentioned profit sharing, health plan contributions, bonus pay, vacation pay, and other very attractive benefits.

I've been self employed for nearly 20 years now. In that time I've paid 100% of my health insurance or gone without, paid the full 15% of Social Security/Medicare taxes, paid all of my vehicle expenses, at times gone months without pay at all, worked 100 hours in a week for only a couple days worth of pay, paid my own liability insurance, and every local, state & federal tax and/or fee those entities could conceive.

In that time I have also gone without the security of workman's comp, disability insurance, and unemployment insurance. I have received no vacation or holiday pay, no sick days, no annual bonuses, no cost of living adjustments, no 401k matching contributions and no Thanksgiving turkey. I have worked sick and with broken bones - because I had to.

As for employees, I have dealt with every possible reason for not showing up from sick kids, car won't start, overslept, still cocked from last night (it was a Tuesday), DUI arrests (multiple of these), to "I just didn't feel like coming in"! I was also asked by one of my employees for a raise once after he had just ruined about $800 worth of materials the day before!

I'm not looking to start any arguments out there, but I don't think the majority of people actually realize that for every dollar they earn in employment, there are probably 2 more it costs to the employer to have them there....that is to say, if you earn $50k a year, the total dollars spent for your employment is between $100 & $150k. The office or vehicle you sit in, tools & equipment, computers, phones, utilities, taxes, insurance and benefits all exceed your earnings.

Who else here knows what I'm talking about.

I do! I do! What starts as a dream can quickly turn to a NIGHT MARE! You're right, few understand what goes on "behind" the scenes... Particularly in a "micro business" (far too small to call it "small").

Jim

I know all to well! Just because you own a buisness everyone thinks you are full of cash. I can tell you it is usualy the oposite. The Nightmare? Yes I know it!

My Blue Shiled went up to over $600 this year! Almost $200 increase! Guess who is doin without now? Yup! ME.

Ace

Agreed! Self-employed since 2005. Was Sr. Management at large corporate electronic retailer in Minneapolis. After that, I ventured out on my own because I felt I could do it better. Like Chris, I have worked ridiculous hours for weeks on end for little pay, had contract resources (not exactly employees, but similar) who failed to deliver (always have a back-up plan), spent months without income, paid my liability insurance, home, auto, health insurances, vehicle costs, retirement plans were 100% up to me, etc. I even have a "vendor" who still owes me enough to allow for the purchase a nice, new German luxury car in cash - but I will never see this money due to less-than-honest dealings and sneaky accounting. I use this as a learning tool and as motivation to ensure that this will never happen again.

There are great benefits to self-employment. They do not come without sacrifice, however. My subcontractors always get paid and with that they are always willing to work with/for me. As mentioned above, there are many costs associated with having your own business that the average person does not see or comprehend. Yet, with these challenges, I still would not have it any other way.

Yep. I don't pay myself.(my wife make good money and pays the household bill,carries OUR insurance) All of the money I make goes back into the business. That's not to say I don't have a LOT stashed away for emergencies(like $15,000 to rebuild a motor last week)(or the $36,000 for plates last month).
I just don't spend on the nicest high dollar new pickup for me to drive around when i can get a nice couple year old pickup for 10s of thousands less to do the same job. I save the buying new for the semi's(mostly for warranty and write off).
I pay Half the health insurance for the drivers and match what THEY WANT to contribute for the 401K.
I pay based on performance and so far nobody has quit for greener pastures.

amen the government slams us with tax after tax employees did not get a raise in 09or10 but they didnot take a cut like i did

Yep, self-employed since... forever. I have had a few jobs working for others in the past, but it's been a looong time.

I am a freelance recording engineer, fortunate enough to get my foot in the door with the major labels in Nashville years ago. The pay "can be" good, but it might take me 6 months or even a year (!) to get paid for an album project. I also own my own recording studio, with it's own property maintenance and employment issues with engineers and musicians. Talk about a money pit, lol- this stuff is e x p e n s i v e.

I do tangle in the collector car and real estate markets as well, but it's all hard work. I've found that I get paid about equal to what I work. There's still lots of opportunity in America, but not many shortcuts..

Good post, all good points. I've owned my company for over thirty-five years. Workers with a benefit package got nothing to complain about. My son-inlaw is a police officer. He's going to retire in 6 years at the age of 45, I'll still be working. Right now work is slow, just recovering from having a stent put in a main artery. I have to pay $2500 deductable and I can't collect any disability or unemployment. Maybe I should go to the state capitol and protest.

Good post Boss. The average employee has no idea what costs are involved in running a business. Federal and State government regulations, codes, taxes, fees, inspections, filings etc. make it very difficult to do business today and the average employee who gets a paycheck has no clue what it takes to generate that check.

I understand your frustration about employees. i could tell 100s of story but your story reminded me of a guy who destroyed over $7000 in equipment. He claimed he was not trained correctly and was not at fault. What kind of training do you need to realize that hitting something with a hammer may cause some damage?

You have to place a value on running your own business to justify all the headaches involved.

Right there with you guys! Been self employed for 10 yrs full time and with other jobs off and on since the 80's.
Right now I'm teaching part time for a local community college for side income.

If you figure your time invested self employment is the worst pay you'll ever make and the most rewarding experience you'll ever have!

I'll say this, working for someone else is taking the easy route generally. As an employer you never stop thinking, worrying, or living the business...BUT!! The risk, control, and income potential are worth it, at least for me.
When I bought my company it was already a thriving business; and years of corporate management gave me the opportunity to "hit the ground running" not needing further training with tax and labor laws, employee management, and cost controls. I really wouldn't recommend starting or running a business without a reasonable amount of time in upper level management...a wise time investment IMO.
For me it was harder working for someone else; harder still resisting the urge to leave without stashing a comfortable amount of cash away to buy the "right" business and not settling for a less profitable/successful venture. But I'm a control freak, surely some of you can relate to that!:)

I was......but I had such a bad boss , I never got vacation, so I took employment 15 yrs ago with my largest client...no more hassles with , payroll, taxes, invoicing clients , and
"going without" in bad months.......this is something union employees have NO CLUE about!

raise? isnt that what you do when you get out of bed in the morning?

Raise the dead because you just got 2 hours of sleep. and not because you wanted to sleep, because you passed out from exhaustion.

Nothing like taking care of other famlies that dont have a clue of what you do for THEM.

Self employed since 1998. I got to work this morning at 6:45 and normally leave around 4:30/5. This weekend I'll work a trade show over in Atlanta with return to the office Monday evening about 6:30. I keep up with 5 employees and generally write over 100 checks a month for various things. I deal with Uncle Sam, the state, county and the city of Hoover. Take a few days off? Hard to do since I keep all the books and therefore handle writing paychecks. Try that while enjoying cancer treatments like I did a while back.

Retirement? We're building our inventory and I'm investing in various other things on the side.

Damn I'd hate to answer to somebody else......other than the wife. :)

I am new to the self employment game. Became self employed after getting laid off from my full time job in 2008 because of the economy.

I wasn't expecting to make a lot of money just enough to help pay the bill and keep the business going and my CAD/drafting skills up to date and my IT skills up to date.

Well, reality sets in and only making enough money to keep the business going. No money towards the house bills and no fun money to to do fun things on the weekend with the wife.

We haven't taken a vacation in over 5 years and haven't been able to frivolous buy in about 5 years. All monies coming into the house hold are going right to bill collector and our get rich government while everyone else suffers.

I am hoping for a turn in the economy soon so I can get back into the employment world and start getting a paycheck again.

Mark

exactly...I didnt take one in 6....was at work at 7 am , getting home about 10 pm, including most sats and sundays....1st year I was working for myself...I took 2 days off all year...Christmas Day and NYD...all other days were work days...
as I said abv I was a hard boss, got burned out after 6 yrs....

David, I assume you are using Quickbooks, Paychex, or similar...?

I am really torn on this one.

I had my own business for 10 years, 6 of them it was my full time business. I hear what everyone is saying about the work it takes to run a business. I understand the risks, I lost ALL of my retirement savings when the market crashed. And I REALLY understand the frustration dealing with the government. I have been closed for 4 years now and am still battling them about the fact that I didn't file employee taxes last year! ! ! ! !

HOWEVER, I also was able to coach my daughters softball team for all those years, make every game and every major family event. If I didn't want to take on a project or work with a particular sub I didn't have to, MY CALL. I also was able to do business meetings while kayaking on Lake Michigan ( got to love cell phones ). I never really take vacations so that never bothered me.

I now have a serious stable income, I am still dealing with employees, difference is I have an HR department to hand then off to when it gets out of control. I am enjoying the perks of working in a corporate environment again, the travel, and the good dining are nice.

But at the end of the day the truth is I have to REPORT to the guy in the corner office instead of BEING the guy in the corner office. And that sucks no matter how much you like your job.

Final word, "Life is like a crap sandwich. The more bread you have the less crap you have to taste."

-Harry

Worked corporate...went with others and did a start up...it went VERY well for 5 years...hard work, 7 day weeks but very satisfying as we were all aligned growing a business that was taking the big boys...then we sold and I stayed and went corporate...decent money but hated the games and the politics....have severed ties recently and am now contemplating the future....it will only be a private venture with an equity stake, not corporate and cant wait to do battle with the big boys again.
Owning your own business is the ONLY way you have a chance of ringing the bell....working for someone else is only wages...not for this boy

Quickbooks.

Id love to hear more about the great experiance. Id also like to hear more positive things about being self employeed. Seems here per Chris's original post, working for yourself really sucks. Than why would you do it??

My dream is to work for myself. I love the fact that the money a client or customer is paying out is coming to ME and not to the company investors to make them rich. Ive just never had the idea or been able to put up any capital to start something.

I don't think he was saying it sucks as much as he was saying a lot of people think that the employer is living high because he "owns" the company. That is seldom the case. The company owns you. On the flip side there is a pretty good feeling getting up in the morning and knowing what you do today is YOURS.

Well said. No calling someone to ask for a day off. You want to go do something-you go do it.

^this. David makes a great point here,

It is hard work to be self-employed, but you need a good work ethic. For me, I'm even more willing to work harder knowing that only MY family (and the gov't) is reaping what I'm sowing. I made a lot of money for other people's businesses and families while I was working for someone else. It was not a good feeling, and never made sense to me. That's what drove me to work for myself.

It's hard for some of us to "clock in", to have to ask for permissions, go 'by the book', take direction from a company fanboy, etc. I'm open minded, but don't want to answer to an 'inferior superior'. It's extremely frustrating when you disagree with a company policy or boss's work ethic. If you're on a payroll, you just have to eat it. I've done that enough, and now I don't have to ask anybody anything. My successes and failures are purely mine.

If you trust your own work ethic, there's always this nugget:
"If you want something done right, do it yourself."

It definitely does not suck. Wouldn't trade it for ANYTHING. And the possibilities are endless for income if you are successful. Freedom and control are very important things to me. But so is discipline. If you neglect the business or forget for any length of time that is about making money you can get yourself in trouble pretty darn fast. Delegating effectively enables you to keep your eyes on the business and build sales. Get too caught up in the grind of it all and the opposite happens.
Also, what you do with the money you make is extremely important; you must build a nest egg of cash for the down times or recession. All these shuttered businesses of late didn't do that. Reinvest in the business to make it faster/efficient to improve cash flow as well. If the business slows down, you can still "make it" with quick turn around times in many businesses. Not all, but specifically manufacturing.
You know what the biggest inspiration was for me? Watching all the immagrants over the years come here to do just that-start their own business in this free country of ours. Whether it be a liquor store, dry cleaner, coin laundry, etc. they did it!
I'd be damned if I let that pass me by in my life.:usa2:

Bought into a partnership at the firm that I had been working at for 17 years. 5 other partners.
2 years in, in 2007, FBI showed up at the door. Apparently one of the partners who was also a county commissioner had run afoul of the law. He was asked to leave, along with the president of the firm who was also the founder and a co-conspirator. He ended up doing a 5 year stint in a federal pen. The president was not charged, but was out of the game for good. The 4th partner(most senior left) couldn't stomach it, so he left for greener pastures.

That left the 3 most junior partners with a tarnished reputation in an sliding economy. (Civil and Engineering and surveying).

Our industry peers felt certain we could not make it 6 months, and I actually had a couple of good job offers, but I never even considered them.

I looked across the table and said to my remaining partners, it really can't get any worse than this. If you guys want to bail, I will understand completely. But if you stick around, I know we can pull this thing out of the ditch.
Next you know, I was voted as president.
We ended up changing the name of the firm, and although it has never been anything less than dicey, we did better than survive.

After the initial downturn due to bad publicity, and general belief that we were all dirty, we managed to increase business by about 5% over each of the last 3 years. Employees never missed a check, or benefits or any of that. I doubt any of them even really felt any pain, but they did stick it out.

Was it bad? For me, I can't say that it was. Failure was never an option. We were going to be successful at 30 people, 20 people or 5 people. We held steady with staff.
Picked up some good people, dumped some legacy employees.

It sure isn't easy, cash flow is always in question. People are slow to pay, bills never stop coming in. We quickly figured out how to do more with less.
I don't know that I ever thought I had it in me, but of course if I had failed completely, everyone would not have been surprised cause we were dealt a bad hand, but we played it as best as we could.
You always watch the almighty dollar like a hawk.

I think the word is-FREEDOM

not if you have 5-10 employees ,who need hand holding....you`re never off

More like ball and chain.

That means you have the wrong people working for you.

I started my own LLC company this past summer, all on my own, only because I had the product I'm selling installed on our home up north. I know what it can do. I've gotten the greatest support anyone could have from the company I represent up in Montreal, Quebec. I put in my own time without any pay back to me. As it's been said, it takes a minimum for 2 years or more to start your own business. They are correct. It's a slow road especially for a unknown product here in the States, with no backing to start other than starting out on your own out of your own pocket. But it's one I believe in, and has the support of a manufacturer that knows they have the best product that meets the needs of the public.

And as I'm finding out, having your own business is not for the faint of heart. It's a tough road to follow. When it catches on because of it being the best there is, that will be my reward.

All great advice.

I'm with you!





and the money is great..........................

:confused:

Bjorn my friend, there's something wrong with that.
I pay to train them. Sink or swim. Time is money....If I see a genuine effort I may cut some slack and invest in some additional training but hand holding....I hire people to make my life easier.....:usa2:

Are you serious??

\
depends on your businness...
manufacturing ,sure you train them...architecture....you cant hire the guys like you are, 1) you cant afford them 2) they would be working for themselves..
that means , as an Architect , you go get the jobs, you sketch them , get them approved ,then your help draws them ,then you check them , over and over to be what client wanted , to be to code, to be user friendly, OR you hire a drafting room supervisor for you profits....theres not a lot of profit in architecture...

and if you are a 'small firm' 4-7 people , theres not enough profit ,unless you give up your salary, to hire a secretary ,an accountant....so you do all of it....and you better be there all the time....
now, as a V.P> of a firm I`m employed at, I work 8-5 , supervise my guys, sketch , check drawings, but no invoicing , no payroll, I get vacation , plus days off, so that leaves me room to do some 'extra', like between 7-8 am , after 5 pm ,and some on weekends....may hire one of my guys to help, or I do it myself...theres where 'profit' comes in!

Not now. But the first six years was a 24/7 nightmare, scrimping and saving every penny, finding good help, begging the bank for money to pay the drivers while waiting for the settlement checks, dealing with job foreman who demanded things the trucks can't safely do, paying for other peoples stupidity, trying to get new trucks that didn't need hundreds in repairs just to pass inspection, doing the repairs myself, doing the books myself, getting fuel surcharge in place(and getting them to honor it), proving I have the best product for the money, Proving they can't bully me into providing the trucks at a loss, ECT. I even found one driver(who didn't show for a job) passed out drunk sleeping on the side of a 2 lane road.
Yea. ball and chain for a LONG time.

Makes sense to me.
I don't think you'd be happy working for someone else...call it instinct :D

I am self employed as well....which is why I am posting here in the middle of the day. I have done everything possible to avoid hiring people. I own 2 businesses... a car lot and an auto repair shop. I am 50% owner on the car lot. Me and another guy started the business 4-1/2 years ago. A little over a year ago we opened up an auto repair shop.... I am a 25% owner of that one. Basically my carlot business partner and I set my car lot mechanic up in his own shop. We put up all of the $$$$ for equipment etc as my mechanic did not have any capital whatsoever..... We gave the mechanic 50% intrest in that business.

BTW - Both businesses originated in my backyard. Both businesses hold their own and are doing well. The carlot is profitable.... the shop is moreless flatlined.

BTW again - I hated working for people and have a real problem with people telling me what to do :)

If I had to do it all over again i would. But I can also understand why some business owners are pricks. and some look like they're 90 at 45.

That's a really good point. As an employee, if you're trying to accomplish something you care that it gets done. But there are different levels of caring...sometimes I get asked to intervene when they can't get return emails or phone calls; what do you think my demeanor is when I have to get on the phone with these people not returning calls to my people? (I'm a real prick)

Otherwise I'm just a real nice guy ;)

Something like that. There are times when it sucks, but there are times when it's great.

Today for example, I wrote a job proposal this morning, visited the project I'm doing around noon time to make sure things were going well and to pick up a check. :D I then drove an hour & a half up to the nursing home in Massachusetts to visit my Mom - something I've done at least once a week, every week for the 9 months she's been in there. We got to visit for a good hour before she fell asleep for her afternoon nap. I didn't have to ask anybody to go or explain to them why I did. Today was a good day, but it was also my choice.

Mostly I don't think that people who've never done it, have any idea. There are days, that for a crisp $20 bill you could have the whole deal! ;)

For some reason my employees think for every dollar(sales) the company brings in, I get two (Profit) and put that in my pocket. They just don't get it. No one thinks like a business owner unless you are one. If I stock up on supplies or but a new (or used machine) they grumble about why they are not getting a raise instead. They just don't understand that to be more competitive you have to spend money sometimes on your business thus improving your companies capabilities just to keep up with technology in manufacturing.

My Web site if any one is interested in what we do; www.lapping.com

SDD

If Consulting counts then I've got a year into that form of 1099 self-employ.

I've been self employed for 10 years now.

Up until about a 1 1/2 years ago I was just a one person operation. Then I decided to add on to my shop and make it a two person operation. Getting good help and help that wants to stay has been a challenge. I am on my third person so far. I am really hoping the guy that is currently here plans on sticking around for awhile as we get along well and I really like his work.

Yeah, self-employment can be a challenge but has it's rewards too!

Been self-employed now for 27yrs. The biggest problem that I have with employees is that they feel you owe them something for coming to work. Since the down turn in the contruction area it's been hard to keep anyone around for lond period of time. It really crackes me up is that one of our rules is no advancements on your there paychecks. I've had several ask after the first day for an advancement right after the sign the rule sheet. I had a family member work for me paying him $21.00 an hr to help ease the pressure off me instead caused more. let him off when he need to take care of family matters. Helped him out 3 times where he wouldn't loose his house cause they couldn't manage there money. He was upset on night when we came in cause my daughter was having horse lessons and later he text me and said he quit. That's been 4 years now and he still won't speak to me. At times if I could make what I make I'd hang it up in a heart beat but I like making my own hours.

That's no ****! I've gone days with only a 20 minute catnap. 30 hrs at a time is about my limit.

I don't think anyone is forcing you guys to work for yourself. If its SOOOOOOOO bad, go work for someone else. Must be nice to STASH 15K when you don't get paid for work? I bet Uncle Sam would like to know how you can STASH 15K without a paycheck. A bunch of whiney ass bitches around here.