Another "Spool on the Street" question
 

So...I ordered 33 spline axles for my 12 bolt and was going to go with the strange 33 spline posi. Summit wants $624 for it. Jegs only $469, but Summit won't match that because Jegs doesn't have it in stock.

My car is a 4000lb lemans, 95% street, and right now a spool seems like a great idea because of the fact that its WAY cheaper!. The car will see rain here and there as well. So come at me, would I be a fool to cheap out on this considering it is a real street car? Auburn or Eatons do not interest me as I always hear stories about one wheel locking up on turns causing spinouts.

any and all advice is welcomed.

A friend of mine used to run a spool on the street. That ended up being one of the reasons he sold the car. It is not street friendly. I have had an Eaton in mine since about 1974, and I have never noticed any difficulty with it at all. It is true that any posi will handle differently when you break it loose going around a corner, but you learn how to deal with it. I doubt there's many circumstances I have not encountered in 37 years of driving this car, 47 if you count the time with the stock posi.

thanks for your input.
main reason I am considering it is the shear price of the 33 spline posi. $624 for a frickin posi!! geese louise!:eek:

You need to stop listening to whoever told you ^^^^ that.

A spool will be 1000x worse about that on the street than any posi would ever be.

And like OMT,I've known way too many guys who wanted to be "Joe Badass" and ran spools in their street cars,only to get sick of them in like 2.2 seconds after actually driving them on the street for more than a few miles @ a pop.

But I'm sure you'll get guys that'll swear they aint all that bad to live with.

If your heart is set on the Strange diff and Jegs will sell you one for $469.00,order it from them,why bother w/Summit and pay more.

Odds are it's not in stock @ Jeg's because it's way easier for Jeg's to just get Strange to drop ship the diff from their warehouse,and that's why they sell it cheaper than Summit does,that way they (Jeg's) dont have to physically warehouse the part and such.

BTW,I'd bet $$$$ that those Strange posi diffs are likely just reboxed Eaton and/or Auburn posi units from the look of things.

I know I prefer the Eaton posi's myself. 2¢

I would expect a 33 spline Eaton diff to be a little more $$$ as SOP though.

Moser has the 33 spline Eatons for like $550.00 on their website,in both 3 & 4 series carriers,so likely that's where I'd get my diff.

FWIW

Bret P.

Some times saving money doesn't save money. Do it right the first time.

X100:D

"Auburn or Eatons do not interest me as I always hear stories about one wheel locking up on turns causing spinouts."

????

I avoid the Aurburn cone type posi's, have seen quite a few crack the cones in high HP applications.

The Eaton units are tough. I broke two factory posi's back around 2001 in two runs. Installed an Eaton unit and it's still working fine.

We have an Eaton posi in a 12 bolt diff behind a 505 that pushes my friends car to 9.90's at 136mph, fine now for about 10 years of abuse behind 2 engines all running high 10's or quicker.....Cliff

posi/limited slips can be noisy around turns on dry serfaces, some clunking/racheting is experienced, also tire squeal can be a problem.

In snow or wet weather it can be much worse. I have had posi's that shove the car forward on ice when the wheels are turned left or right

spools are all that but worse

also with posi or spool your tires must be same diameter!!! not same pressure but same diameter. pretty important witha posi cause otherwise you can wear it out. with a spool, if you get on it the car can become unstable and get sideways in a hurry

Gots the Dana60 4-pinion Posi. Heaviest Diff to run the 1/4mile.
Lightweight Dana60 Spool would be unbearable on the street.

If you have noise when cornering with an clutch type posi, you aren't using the right friction modifier in the gear lube. Personally, I've never had this issue and I have had an Eaton posi in use for about a dozen years now (signature car). One trick is that a guy can throw away the preload springs inside the diff. There are shims available to "tune" the clutch pack and tighten things up without the need for the springs. They are there to help if you have one tire off in the mud or snow, but at the track with equal traction at both wheels, they just don't do anything.

Call Tom's differentials for some advice on an Eaton assembly or the componants to put one together. http://www.tomsdifferentials.com/catalog.asp?pg=3
Go for some heat treated 10/17s and see if he can machine the posi case to accept the larger diameter 33 spline axles.
As was mantioned earlier, It's well worth the cost to do it right the first time!

Andrew, personally I'd stay away from a spool on the street. You would not enjoy the car anymore on the street. The posi is the better way to go. Don't do what I did. My street car got more and more race stuff on it to the point of not enjoying it anymore. That's what turns out to be the waste of money over the years. My street car now has my ram air 3 motor back in. Looking to have fun on the street again.

Your tires will wear out quick. And in rainy/wet road conditions you will not be happy with a spool.

Eaton posi. Or a locker...

i have put exactly 30 miles on my gto with a spool, street only. i went with it because its just a part i dont ever want to think about again, (hopefully) if i had the cash i would buy a http://www.wavetrac.net/ i dont notice it at all until i pull into the driveway, feels like its binding and bucking. too early to tell if i am going to hate it. FWIW. - RB

Yep, samething here it works perfectly til u turn ,lol.. Ryan I love it for the track ,but its not near as fun anymore on the street!

I get my stuff from Quick performance in Iowa.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-Ch...Q5fAccessories

http://www.quickperformance.com/

One of my buddies in his 85 IROC just put in and pulled out a mini spool until he found a posi for it. And he's pretty bold on what he drives.

Have a spool in my Catalina. Love it at the track; hate it on the street.
If my Cat was strictly street I'd run an open rear end before I went with a spool.

Just my 2 cents

Jim

X2

all these guys hit it right on. I have a spool in my 71 Olds that is %95 track
and little street. It is a pain in the axx on the street. ya you do "learn" to drive it.

I did drive to Byron drag way once, 100 miles each way. It was all interstate except
about 20 miles. Not bad then but in town , wide turns like a semi .

I got caught in the rain with it once also, not fun on a road with crown and curves.
45-50 mph go into a curve... you ever hit black ice before?

I would rather have a one wheel wonder than a spool for a street car.

Thank you for all the help guys!! I guess I will stick with the posi idea regardless of price.

I need a 4 series one because I have 4.11 4 series gears. I wonder if I can get the 3 series posi and shim it to fit 4 series gears?

(I think you can only do that in the other order, am I right:confused:)

I've had 3:90's with a spool in my car for the last 5 years. I can tell you spools suck for everything but going down the track. I just put 4:30's in with a locker and that is what made me realize how bad the spool was.
But another thing to think about, if you have a posi type differential and break an axle, won't the car be easier to control than with a spool?

Interesting you should mention that... I broke an axle about 3 weeks ago on the starting line with my stock clutch type posi from a 12 bolt from an 66 SS396 and the car just sat there - didn't move at all. Replaced the axle and all is good again. I do have C-clip eliminators.

I have this posi in one of my 69 GTO's and LOVE it on the street. The other 69 GTO is a full spool and even though I have and do drive it on the street you definitely make wider turns and do lots of backing up and trying it again...

Andrew, As everyone has said a spool is not very street friendly. Tears up tires hard to make tight turns in parking lots and it is not funn in the rain. I have a Detroit Tru trac I took out of my car for sale. It is a 3 series but I believe you can buy spacer rings that would probably be ok for a mild race mainly street car. I will cut you a screaming deal if you are interested and I could probab ly get a good shipping rate thru work. Email me if you are.

I'd stay away from the spacer too, if you're running slicks. Seen lots of ring gear bolts broken with those things. 40 years ago I was running a 69 Camaro with a 4 speed and used ring gear spacers in my 12 bolt. I broke at least 3 sets of ring gear bolts, from 3 differant manufactures. Switched to a 4 series carrier, problem solved.

They do sell thicker ring gears for 12 bolts so that you don't need a spacer behind it. Don't know if every ratio is available,but worth looking into.
I just looked for a thick ring gear for my 8.5 (Which they DON'T make!), but saw plenty on the market for 12 bolts.

You can run a spacer, but the last time I checked the Eaton Brute Strength posi was only made in a 4 series. If you run a spacer it needs to be set up by a very competent specialist. A long time ago I ran a 10 bolt successully with a spacer (even racing it) until I sold it and updated to a 12 bolt..

Jim

Is it for 33 spline? if so let me know, I will call Detroit tommorow and ask about the spacers.

My car is stick right now. The Truetrac is different from a locker, so it won't be a problem in a stick car on turns? (I have read that lockers and stick cars do not go well together from my brother who is a UMTR guy.

Another issue when running a spool on the street: If you do any highway driving where there are grooves/ruts in the asphault from big trucks be CAREFULL because the spool will cause unexpected lane changes! You will feel it pushing you.

Parking is always a concern because you are binding the axles. JD

Dont cheap out, get the Eaton.
If you break that, need a stronger rear end to begin with.

Know 2 guys with Brute Strengh's that run mid 9's for yrs.

I have one with 4.11.s
Really want 3.55's in my current 70% street/25 strip car.
My racing buddy since the 70's(also runs 9's), and builds BIG power stuff for $ guys says DONT spacer it if your gon'a hook.
Make room for taller tires.

Car still have sway bars? You could set it up like mine and not need a posi at all.

Are the Brute Strengths a Posi or locker, or something like the true-trac?
Now that I have done more reading everything I see about the true trac in a street/strip environment is negative!

it has both front and rear but they will be coming off and I will be putting in anti roll when the rear one comes off. Please explain though; you have piqued my interest.

Andrew, its an Eaton type posi.
Supposed to have stronger case and guts.
Made by Moroso. How knows, maybe just a reboxed Eaton???
Never seen one apart.

Thanks Mike

I have read guys saying that the clutch packs on the brute strength are so tight they chatter going around turns like a locker.

They also make a thin gear 12 bolt 3 series to use on a 4 series posi/spool. Had to get one for the 3.73 and the spool in the Camaro/IA project 12 bolt.

Mine does not chatter going around corners. The only way I'm aware of that will cause that is not using the correct oil in the differential.

Is there much difference in driving with a detroit locker on the street and a spool??

My '60 has a 9" with a locker...and the '57 I'm building will be using the original 57-64 diff with 35 spline and a spool.

The '60 has been street driven for over 10 years...just fitted power steer this year.

Have never driven with a spool.

We ran Brute Strength stuff in a 64 GTO in 1971 in the low 11s. Never had an issue
once we installed the GM "service pack" axles to go with the rear.

Always liked that rear when it was set up properly.

Had a few friends wreck their late 60s Mustangs when they tried to run spools and slicks on the street.

A Ford 9" allows you to have a pig set up for a STREET gear/ Posi and a RACE pig set up with a spool and the right Drag Gears for your track (say an 1/8th mile deal).

Tom Vaught

ps Spending money several times to "save" money the first time is primarily due to inexperience. Some times you just have to bite the bullet and buy the good stuff initially.

I hope thats not directed at me:rolleyes:. My buddy with a fox body has been doing everything twice because a) he is in a rush and b) he is so cheap because well he heas no money really.

I am the guy who always preaches about doing it right the first time, and I always do (everything I have put on my car so far is QUALITY) but before I put the money down I always rethink it about 50 times, before my wallet gets much lighter:p

In no way was directed at you.

The average inexperienced guy is different from the "Guy who is in a Rush" or the "Cheap Guy". Sometimes you get both (like your buddy) in one package.

The difference is: over time the inexperienced guy will learn and will make sound decisions. The "Guy who is in a Rush" or the "Cheap Guy" will not change over time.

Tom Vaught

Np Tom. regardless I knew you were just giving advice. My buddies all rip on me for being stingy and thinking through my purchases like mad, but I think its a decent quality.

IF you're admitting to driving it in the rain stop right there, get a posi.

If you can guarantee no wet weather driving run a spool.

Hey, i resemble those remarks!

Nothing wrong with taking time and thinking things through. My parts guy I deal with knows I'll research something to death as well. I'll be the first guy to admit I don't know evrything but I enjoy learning as I go.

comparing the locker to a spool, they are not the same. the locker is pretty user friendly once you get used to it, especially the newer ones. I drove a 68 mustang not long ago that had an original locker in it, and had a lot of people ask me what was wrong with the car and why was the rear end clunking so much. i don't have much experience with spools on the street, but loved my locker and wouldn't waste my time with a posi if I could get a locker for the application. no additives and no clutches to wear.

Well, do not do it. I have a story and paid the price and it could have been a lot worse.
My car was a 12 flat car at the time, pump gas 455.
9" with 3 link, billet axles, factory N case and all the good stuff. I broke a factory Ford clutch posi then bought a "good" Detroit Locker. Broke it too. It did not last as long as the factory Ford piece. (it came out of a late 60s 428CJ Cyclone I believe)
Put the spool in and would drive it back and fourth to the track only. I had some tall pickup mud and snow tires I put on the back to do this.
I was late going to the track as usual and went to pass this slow car. Now my car has LOTS of passing power so I went for the pass even though there was some coastal fog patches here and there.I had time if everyone was going normal speeds.
I went for the pass on a long straight stretch but there was some fog about a 1/4 mile in front. When I was side by side with the car I was passing this car came out of the fog bank coming right at me and it had to be going 90 mph. I still had plenty of time right. So I let off the gas, waited for the car I was passing to go by, gently eased back and tapped the brake.
I have 4" skinnys up front and when I tapped the brakes it was like they were roller skates. The back tires wanted to be up front now and I went into a long skid going about 70mph turning to my right. The car went through gravel and rocks along railroad tracks, the sound was horrible. Big rocks as big as your fist and bigger went flying. The front end spun one full turn, then came around again. The car hit the upside of the railroad track burm and spun around like a top in a 360.
The back tires were right in the middle of the railroad tracks, dust still frying around and the dick that came at me doing 90 flew on by, never stopped to see if I was alright.

Now, mind you my car was almost ready for painting. AND it was the last race of the season and I was in second place just a few points back. My perfect unmolested front bumper (69 GTO) had a wow in it. My 2 front fenders that we just finnished doing a near all steel body work that had a perfect alingment with the perfect front bumper were curled in on the bottom. My 3 link was knocked 12" sideways and junk. Both rear tires "broke". My skinny Weld rims were bent. And one of my outside rear axle bearing outer race was shattered. (but the Mark Williams billet axles were not touched, they are the beast made!)
And if went to the other side of the road would have rolled the car many times and would not be here. There were power poles on the other side too,they just stopped to the right side where I went out.
Its kind of a long story and I am sorry. But do not do it.
It was the worst mistake I have ever made in my Hot Rod world.The bumper is still not right (anyone know of a good 69) The fenders are still not right. I could have died.
And I am a very good driver on a race track and on the street. Never wrecked at the track and never have had a real accident or DUI on the street.
I should never had tried the pass and never should have had a spool with 4" tires up front. I have driven it home during rain outs and it was all good. But once skinny fronts brake loose and you have a spool you had better grab on hard because you are not in control anymore.
Well now I have a much better Alston in the car and the rear end is to the point where I cannot hurt it. But my pal that did the great bodywork got fired from our job and he is gone.
When I was installing the new 3 link I still found rocks jammed in under the frame.
That and the sounds and smell of it all was the worst.
Do not do it.
My brother was behind me just a click, with the truck, gas, race stuff and all that towing his race car .He stopped to get more fuel. He drove by and there was still dust in the air, surreal.
He lent me his car for the day, but I still took 2nd place.
NO spools on the street OK.

Good-said! wise man indeed
Hi Jim. Its been a long time!

Hey Guy - It has been a long time. Too bad PDD is dead. How's the "Orange Pumpkin"?

The tire you choose to use out back is a big factor on how "streetable" it's going to be...

No biggie here with small 275 hoosiers, 35 spline spool and anti-roll bar...

i have a spool in my 'bird.i drove it alot on the street and never had any of the negative experiences i expected. the thing i noticed was at low speed going around corners. its all in what you can put up with while driving.

Hi Jim, As a matter of fact, Ive JUST got it back on the street. Now has a mild 455 (std). Still has race trans w/brake but w/a 10" TCI converter, still has 12-bolt w/4:10's and spool (soon to go) and for wheels, its got 17" Polished Torque Thrust D's, 3" Flowmasters. Im working on interior next: Pass seat, carpet, headliner etc. But keeping the 6 pt roll bar. Oh yeah, I'd like to put a worked stock gas tank in place of the 8gal cell too. Are you still racing? Miss the GOOD TIMES/CAMRADERIE/FRIENDS of the old PDD days. Those were some of the best years of my life!
Know, You'd never know there was a track on the old LACR site :(

Not a spool, but I installed a locker in a 4wd pickup that was 95% street driven. Worst "improvement" I ever made. Caused me to spin out and wreck when it was raining (going around a curve). Not cheap to fix all the damage to the truck and the car I hit. Thousands, in fact. But I saved $400 by not buying an upscale limited slip unit!!! A spool would be even worse than the locker. WAY worse. No thanks. Go with a good quality limited slip unit and keep your car rubber side down!!!