so are 61 to 63 tempests dangerous to drive?
 

i read little about them "getting away" from their drivers
in stock form are these cars dangerous to drive? can anything be done to them to correct any issues, that is short of installing a conventional driveline.

I have been driving them since I bought my first one new in 1962 and then 1963.IMO they are second only to the corvair.Drive them with that thought in the back of your mind.I telephone poled a 62 wagon and lived and my moms boy friend got killed in a 63 with a roll over.Almost lost my 63 on a very sharp curve one night.JMO,Tom

tom were you driving aggressively? pushing it through corners? was weather a factor?

If they are still on the road then obviously someone can manage to keep one on the road...

Bias-ply tires that these cars came with when new combined with low tire pressures make any swing axle car a dangerous handler.

With today's radial tires and an eye on tire pressures I'm sure they are quite a bit more stable than back in the day when they were new. A good-quality set of shocks is a big help too.

A little decambering (mild lowering) along with a camber compensator in the rear can go a long way to make these cars more competent road cars during cornering at higher speeds.

I used to drive swing axle early VWs and decambering the rear made a huge difference, but get too aggressive in a turn and you're in for some trouble.

63s are much improved and safer than 61-62 but still no where near as stable and predictable as the '64 and later body-on-frame cars.

Just do not drive one in anger or on busy streets and you'll be fine.

its good to hear the 63's are a bit safer.
where can you buy camber adjusters?

There were 2 different manufactures of camber adjusters for the Tempest's. Both are allmost impossible to find. The 2 manufactures were Empi & Huffman. As stated, run a set of radial tires & good shock absorbers. Dont know for sure about the 63's but the 61-62 were helped a lot by putting a 3/4" spacer block between the differential & the support crossmember. Lowering the diff tilted in the tops of the tires & really helped the handling. With the different rear suspension arms on the 63's, dont know if this trick will work or not. Just remember when driving to leave plenty of room with the car in front of you & dont make any quick high speed manuvers/lane changes & you will be fine.

What Kieth said.I think my 62 wagon had bad shocks,went to pass a guy,saw oncoming so just turned it back,not real hard but the car got sideway,was looking at oncoming and whipted it back and lost it when a HUGE T pole got in the way and pushed the engine toward the front seat.Lucky to live with that one.Had the seat belt on,broke the steering wheel and banged my knees on the dash.Totaled the car.The 63 was just too sharp of turn,back wheel tried to fold under,saved it though.Never did find out how my moms boy friend rolled his,he was older,im sure not pushing it.Just drive them like you expect them to get loose and you "should" be fine.Tom

When they, and I, were new I drove one (63) for many years as my main car. I was young and agressive and foolish and lucky. I 'lost it' only once and it was on a twisty road but I was going too fast and not "In the Moment" as they say and it was completely 'driver error'. The telephone pole that I was heading for did not have my name on it for whatever reason, because I was no longer "in control". I was lucky that there was enough open space and no traffic for me and my Tempest to sort things out. But then, mine was only a 4bbl 4cyl.... if it were a 326 it might have been a different story.

Ok, lets get a few things straight here!!! The 61-63 Tempest cars can be tricky to drive due to the type or rear suspension. They have the same style swing axles that are in Corvairs & the old VW's. If you turn too fast at a high speed, the rear tires will try & tuck in at the bottom causing unsafe handling.

That said, When driving, do the regular things you would normally do. Watch out for the idiots on the road. Dont go too fast into turns & corners. Dont make sudden fast manuvers at high speeds. Drive it like a regular car. Drive normally & watch the road & others & you will be fine. Anyone that has driven these cars for any length of time will tell you about something that happened when driving. Usually it is due to drivers error. Driving too fast for the road conditions, erattic manuvers, off camber turns, foot heavy in the gas pedal going around turns, the list is endless!!! Drive it like you would any other 50 year old car & you will be fine!!!! I just finished a 4500 mile trip the beginning of August with my 61 Tempest. Drove it to Ohio & back. It handeled fine!!! Drive it!!!!

BTW!!! Are you in Tucson Az??

thats what i like to hear. keith i am in so cal. yesterday i saw a few posts abut lowering the trans axle can this be done on a 63 and if so what is the procedure?

I drove my 62 LeMans for 12 years as a daily driver in Phoenix traffic. Commute ranging from 25 to 45 miles one way. I am somewhat of an aggressive driver, and I NEVER had a problem with the handling of my car. The stock drum brakes would fade pretty quick after a stop from freeway speeds, but a Scarebird conversion fixed that. In dry weather or rain, never had an issue.
Importsmasher

Most of the suspension & handling issues were corrected with the change in rear "A" arm design & placement on the 63's. The best things that can be done for the 63's is a good set of radial tires & good heavy duty shock absorbers. I have found nothing in any of my materials about lowering the diff on the 63's. That was mainley for the 61-62's.

Put 1900 miles on mine going at freeway speeds, around and in Chicago rush hour traffic. Yea! the brakes fade from a high speed stop, ALL non power, shoe brakes do that, just be aware of it. I can lock up my brakes in local trafic and mild highway speeds. I have had at least 5 cars with non power breakes and they all work the same. Growed up with them. Radials are a must. The tempest has been the most fun for road travel. Nothing like a long sweeping turn that you accelerate into and the car stays flat and hugs the road. Curvy roads are the best. All the other reponses are correct. You can still crash a viper in the curves. I can show you one. Drive the car and enjoy the big car ride in a compact. John

61-62 design was only a two year production run. 63 design was only a single year production run. Don't you think that tells a story right there.

The Transaxle Tempest is what it is… an early example of ‘out of the box’ thinking.

Some car companies saw potential in the front engine, torque-tube, rear transaxle/IRS layout, copied it and developed it into what it is today. GM I believe, caved in to corporate politics and the bean-counters and walked away from it.

The Tempest suspension gives a ride that feels like a like a big car, gets great gas mileage (with a four cylinder engine) and carries five (six in 1963 with a bench seat) passengers in comfort. But it’s a fifty year old design with all the limitations of the day and a few unique to itself.

Understand it, live with it’s limitations and enjoy it for what it is (i.e. IMHO A Nugget from the Golden Age of American Automobiles) or get a car with a common drivetrain,

I think any vintage, classic car is dangerous to drive: not because of the car but because of the other "drivers" on the road....

Took my GP around the block the other day to mail a couple letters. In that short, 4 mile cruise I was nearly (a) plowed by a lady on a cell phone (b) left hanging in the road by the car in front of me unexpectedly stopping short, and (c) squished by a meandering metro transit bus.

The guy in the bus actually opened the door and hollered "...I wasn't going to squish you. That's too nice a car...". I didn't say this but he certainly didn't give me that impression! :mad:

K

63Vert - do you have pictures of your car?

Here's mine:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...001/Lemans.jpg

When I drive mine, I never worry about it getting away from me, but I'm a pretty tame driver. Frankly, I don't think our babies are significantly more dangerous than any other 50 year old car in stock form.

My '62 convertible has the original un-assisted drum brakes, padding on the dash, and no rollbar. Never mind air bags, over-the-shoulder seat belts, anti-lock brakes, electronic stability control, etc. When I transition from the Pontiac to my wife's Audi, the difference is stunning.

The only danger I see on the road is the other drivers. I have radial tires on both my 62 Lemans coupes and they both ride great and stop fine with their 4 wheel drum brakes.

I did see some guy was selling a rear sway bar for the 61-3 Tempest on eBay, has anyone tried it?

I too notice a stunning difference when I jump into my 96 Suburban, everyone stays outta my way:D

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...04161942.jpg/]http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/107...0904161942.jpg[/URL] Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[[/IMG]


here it is the a few weeks ago. when i bought it.
it is in the previous owners' work shop and i have to make the brakes and steering work to get it out.

here it is now

[IMG]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1479/20110911142725.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]


i believe it is a original 68k mile car. it has been in this work shop for 20 years.
the 326 is a freshly rebuilt.
once out of the work shop it is going directly to paint.
so all of the orange parts can be repainted the original blue.

[IMG]http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9...0905155821.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
the interior is dusty (saw dust) but intact. the carpets are faded and the driverside door panel is shot. everything else is in good condition.
the wiring in the picture is actually the engine harness.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/9...0911131446.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[IMG]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4...0911131503.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6...0911163422.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

Most cars are designed to understeer at their limit.
The Tempest oversteers.

Understeer is easier to correct because you just lift off the gas and the front end comes back into line.

If you lift off the gas in an oversteering Tempest, the rear end will usually keep coming around.

Sometimes you cannot keep your foot in it due to traffic or the road ahead. And therein lies the problem.

If you want to experience the handling characteristics of these cars. Drive one fast through some turns in the rain. The slicker surface will make these characteristics appear sooner, at lower speeds.

Also, have a friend follow you and video record the front and rear axle of your car as you are doing this. That will make you a believer!

My required reading list "sticky" at the top of the 61-63 forum,,, Check out the last book, the Pontiac performance handbook. It has a very large Tempest suspension section with lots of pictures showing the handling issues associated with each model & what can be done to to help with the oversteer/ reverse camber problems.

Drove my '63 for over ten years as a daily driver. Only lost it twice. Just 4 words to remember: "off ramps" and "wet roads".

Can the Tempests be wailed through the turns with the outer axle tucked fully under, the way I used to drive an early (swing-axle) Corvair in Europe?:eek:

Not really Jack. With the weight of the car, once its out of shape, its pretty hard to controll.

Jack,I think the tempest have a higher CG than the Corvairs and everyone knows they roll over in the driveway!LOL,Tom