When NASCAR MATTERED
 

Does that have a small chevy with the Pontiac cast heads!?



Just messing. I'm aware of the 366.

Thanks for sharing that pic! I pretty much just hate Nascar now-n-days(I will steal tuning ideas if I can). But I never watch it though. But I love that era, I intend to build model kits ending at just about when that car showed up - someday; when I have a few hours to just relax and do something like that, or when I retire. Big fan of yester-year.

They gave Herb and the boys fits at inspection in Daytona...someone, for whatever reason, who had influence with the powers that be at NASCAR, did not want that Grand Am competing.

Shock,surprise,dismay......

I think in Smokey's book he mentioned that if the Frances didn't know you or you weren't one of the good ol' boys, you weren't going to race.

Note the fancy chin spoiler!

Love that era and ealier Nascar rides. Much later and it's flat out boring.

I have a picture somewhere of the starting grid of Daytona 500. The first 5 or six rows was almost all Pontiacs..Believe it was 1961 when Marvin Paunch won it in a 60 Pontiac..Smokey's #20..

62 and 63 as well, Pontiac owned NASCAR. Big BIll's favorite car.

I notice that most of you liked NASCAR when the cars had "stock" bodies, not flat sheet metal and corporate hoods and decks. Now they have put decals on them to show tha tit's a Chevy, Ford or whatever. I can almost bet that you could put Ford decals on Jeff Gordon's Chevy and 99% of the public couldn't tell the difference.

"show tha tit's" yeah baby!

THe 'balljoints'were the wrong ones! Then the following year Nascar begged or paid someone to run a Pontiac! Idiots.

100% it's a common template.

Having the manufacturers involved sparked an enormous level of creativity and the development of some truly special cars. Today with the common template and the ABSOLUTELY NO ****ING with the grey areas of the rule book - that creativity is gone.

....and so is a large portion of the fan base.

Changing for next year....did you miss the new Ford and Charger recently announced?

Tried watch a bit of NASCAR the otherday for the first time in years....pretty darned boring stuff...everything looked the same.

Nascar is nothing more than a "parade of sponsors" nowadays.

Qualifying speeds were faster 30 years ago than they are now. Daytona 500 pole sitters ran 200mph+ in the early 80's.

Surely safety and technology has come further than this in the last 30 years?

I'm a Drag Racer & Like NASCAR as well.. Unfourtunatly NHRA is no better..Try changing decals on Brown's digger with Millican's digger...see what ya get..:or the Pro Stockers confused::rolleyes:
All the Pro series in NHRA all look the same....rules...&...$$$$$

I'll take grass roots racing anytime..

Yep, the good old days before they diluted the sport with foreign nameplates.:mad:

What, new decals?

Actually, the 2013 Dodge Charger (NASCAR) isn't just decals. They made the new model with a factory style recessed grille, heavy body side scallops, and it's much closer to being a stock bodied car. Their intent is to convince NASCAR to return to stock appearing cars.

Ford and Chrysler resorted to stock appearing bodies in the Nationwide Series when they brought the Challenger and Mustang into the fray. Both cars stand out very well, and there's no mistaking them on the track or on TV. They look like Mustangs and Challengers, not cookie-cutter cars. They did a great job, and it boosted interest in the series.

In Sprint Cup, it's hard to tell Impalas from Camrys. The Fords and Dodges at least have a noticeably different nose, but the bodies are nearly identical between all the makes. NASCAR wants parity, they want all the cars to cross the finish line holding hands, because that's good for getting all the sponsor logos on the TV screen.

So they state they want NASCAR to be a driver competition, not a car competition. It's basically like the old IROC Series, where the cars are identical. But the IROC Series died due to lack of interest. Fans loved the competition, but the cars all appeared identical. I guess NASCAR didn't learn from that, and decided to market the drivers as celebrities instead. It's worked for a couple decades now, thanks to Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr., and the antics of Kyle Busch. But interest was waning again, so in comes Danica Patrick for a booster shot.

Remember the bubbleback Monte Carlos and Grand Prix's of the late 80's? They were designed specifically to give Chevy and Pontiac teams the edge back in the late 80's. Those were probably the last attempts by an auto manufacturer to specifically help out their NASCAR teams, without caring about showroom sales.

Even if Dodge is the ONLY one to go a little retro, and have a relatively stock bodied car out on the track, you KNOW that NASCAR will bend the rules, and allow the Dodges to run less wing, or allow them more horsepower, to make up for their aero disadvantage.

But Penske dropped Dodge for 2013, so they aren't sure if there will even be a need (or buyers) for a 2013 NASCAR Charger. But they look pretty cool.

http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/do..._31212_815.jpg

Winning or not ; best lookin car ever ran there - :usa2:

I loved NASCAR back in the 60's. Then Fireball,Joe Weatherly got killed,Flonty Flock was injured so bad he had to quit. Then Curtis Turner was killed and I didn't want to hear anything about NASCAR. But ever now and then, I would hear about something Smokey Yumick had done and I would get back interested until Big Bill France would outlaw whatever Smokey had come up with and would'nt let him run it. Smokey actually came up with a usable fuel cell in 1964 and Big Bill disallowed it. Bye,bye Fireball. I have read a couple of books written by Smokey. It appears that he and Big Bill were serious enemies. Don't even watch NASCAR anymore. The pretty boys and the stupid Bush brothers just don't interest me. I will admit that Kyle can drive a race car, but I would love to see him and Tiny Lund locked in a room for about 15 minutes if Tiny were still alive.

No doubt, especially when you almost NEVER see a driver without his billboard uniform on, or without mentioning the "sponsors" at least twice in every interview.

The mid 80's Thunderbirds were also designed with NASCAR in mind. Not any more......

They should have a "NASCAR Vintage" series.
Stock bodies from 1959 to 1977 or so.
427 cubic inch limit
Cast iron block and heads
Camshaft in block
Flat tappet cam
10" wide tires
Intermediates or full-size only
1" max rear spoiler
3" max chin spoiler
Weight factored according to actual coefficient of drag.
All modern safety equipment required

I know there are some historic NASCAR races, but they seem to be geared to road racing. Nothing wrong with that.

Coming next year to NASCAR to replace the FWD Impala???

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo...qua1o1_500.jpg

http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/ch...929111_717.jpg

Malibu. ;)

RWD???

And, once again...

Helps to read the whole thing. Duh....so that's interesting.

Chevy to replace Impala in 2013 with another Chevy brand: Chevrolet is developing a new car with a new name for its 2013 NASCAR entry, replacing the Impala used by Team Chevy, and plans to eventually market and sell the new model to consumers. The dealership and racing versions of the car will be unveiled this year, after the New York auto show in April, spokesman Monte Doran said. The new car will use a nameplate not currently in Chevy's lineup. Neither the car nor its name will be a derivative of an existing one, such as the new Malibu or the upcoming redesigned Impala, Doran said. General Motors wouldn't reveal details. "We are keeping the wraps on the new car for now and will continue to prepare for next season by testing camouflaged vehicles," Jim Campbell, vice president of Chevrolet performance vehicles and motorsports, said in a statement. "We know that Chevrolet fans are eager to see the new race car, and we hope that the prospect of being able to own one just like it will make the wait a little more bearable."
The new car may be a version of the Chevy Caprice currently imported from Australia for U.S. police forces. Inside GM, a plan to develop a Chevy performance sedan like the Caprice for consumers was on-and-off in recent years because of concerns that it wasn't a high-profit vehicle, people familiar with the situation said. Australia's Holden brand currently offers consumers a variation on the U.S. Caprice. Along with developing the new performance sedan, GM is redesigning the current Impala, which will be built at the Detroit-Hamtramck plant and is expected to hit showrooms by spring 2013. The automaker is also rolling out a redesigned Malibu.(Detroit Free Press, more at MotorTrend and a past post at AutoWeek)(3-13-2013)

I could definitely support a Vintage NASCAR series!! I've always said IF NASCAR wanted to slow down the cars and improve the "show", you lower the c/r to no higher than 10:1,set max engine size @ 400ci and limit the number of aerodynamic aids. The average fan can't tell the difference between 170mph and 200mph anyway.

Aren't they already limited to 355 cu in?

K

There are already vintage racing organizations for stock cars; although they mostly are for cars from the 1980s and early 1990s, I've seen photos of people racing earlier cars at some events as well.

I'm apparently not the "average fan". Probably wouldn't be as noticeable from the couch.. but watching Nascar races on TV is one thing, sitting trackside is an altogether different experience..

Keith,

Yes, they are; however, every engine setup is different. NASCAR is constantly playing with rod c-to-c, stroke and compression height. My plan would limit c/r to 10:1 MAX(current c/r is 14:1) and set a displacement limit of 400ci. No more jacking around with internal specs. As long as it doesn't exceed 400ci, the governing body wouldn't care.

Gulliver,

I,too, prefer to watch races in person, but I'll make a bet with you. A six-pack of your favorite beer says you can't guess the speed within 5mph or laptime within 5secs WITHOUT a stop watch.

Keith, I think it is actually 358.

I only attended one Nascar race, the last Daytona 500 before the resurfacing. I was very disappointed and went home early enough to see the finish on TV. We've discussed the live vs. TV before but I still have no interest to go back. Whereas I would do the SpeedTech Auto Racing School at Atlanta again in a heartbeat.

Since the vast majority of cars today are V6, I have often wondered why Nascar doesn't switch to V6s and require stock engines with few if any mods, at least add some semblance of "stock" to the format.

The problem as I see it for most racing lies in the old adage, racing is expensive, how fast do you want to go.

With virtually unlimited budgets, we now know that you can more or less take the mystery out of racing. I think I liked it better when there was some doubt whether an engine or trans might fail. In the interest of safety (never a bad thing) we've kinda reached a point where the machinery is about bullet-proof. It still is dangerous no doubt, but if there was some doubt whether the car would hold up to the end, it would add excitement. The closest we get to that now is wondering if they'll run out of gas.

I don't watch much drag racing, but even there, equipment failure rarely seems to be an issue, tire traction issues are common but that is rarely entertaining.

I don't know how to "fix" it, but I think it would be more entertaining if the engines were more prone to failure and same engines we run on the street.

After all, as beautiful as the old Pontiacs were, the intrigue was who had the best engines. So keep the COT, but I would like to see stock engines duking it out. Make them run at the ragged edge although I'm sure the sponsors would hate all the DNFs.

Just a thought.

Inrteresting thought on the V6's. About 10-12 years ago the Busch/Nationwide series allowed V6's and V8's but the V6's got a weight break. Nationwide recently had a sealed engine rule so the motors had to be run in more than one race. You could do that in Sprint Cup and have them run 3-4 races------now that would prove interesting.

When ESPN aired qualifying for the NHRA Arizona Nat's and there was a commercial on, wife and I would flip over to the NASCAR 75 lap race. Every time we did, there was a crash. I told my wife we should do this more often. :)

A view I became familiar with as a kid in the 70's on many a Friday and Saturday night with my Dad...sitting in the stands at Beltsville Speedway, watching guys like Bobby Ballantine and Jack Bland go at it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25797947@N02/2447491920/

X2 on that....Sit on front row of short track....watch the drag race off the corners ...carring the front wheel...:)

About the same as watching a 12 second car and then watch a 9 second car...big difference..but on TV....not much difference...

It's difficult for me to put an exact date for when i threw my hands up and said "forget it!". I believe it started with the passing of a local boy Davey Allison and accelerated with NASCAR decisions since. I can say I am totally disinterested in watching 20+ clones drive around in circles, trying to avoid each other and at the end what gets out of the cars seem like, to me, effeminate corporate spokes "people"(not men) desperately trying to sell something or not offend someone. Now, before my fellow capitalist chime in I am as aware as anyone of the importance of sponsorship money. But honestly, you've seen how overboard it can be, right? I probably am an old dinosaur spouting cliches but I'll make no apologies. I just miss the different flavors we used to have in racing. It seems watered down now. Oh my God. Did I just accuse NASCAR of lack of "diversity"?! LOL.

They do have a NASCAR Historic Series. I think they run 5 or 6 times a year.

http://www.hscrs.com/gallery.php

It's difficult to get modern NASCAR fans interested though, because they really don't care about the make of car, or the mechanical differences between the makes. Modern NASCAR is all about selling the driver, and their image, and it's become a bit like WWF wrestling. Fans cheer for their favorite drivers, boo Kyle Busch, buy the appropriate merchandise, and they care very little about engines, chassis, or suspensions.

Thank You, that pretty much nailed it!

John V.,

Maximum allowable displacement is 358ci. ARCA tried the V-6 formula back in the 80's. The engines were exploding like firecrackers, so they went back with the V-8s.

Far from bullet proof...

All these driver's suffered mechanical difficulties and failed to finish the race - many of them were engine problems.

Daytona 500 - Jeff Gordon and David Stremme.

Phoenix - Marcos Ambrose, Jeff Burton, David Reutiman, Jamie McMurray, Josh Wise, Joe Nemechek, Robby Gordon, Scott Riggs and Michael McDowell.

Las Vegas - Landon Cassill, Michael McDowell, Travis Kvapil, Josh Wise, Joe Nemechek and JJ Yeley.

While some of the teams represented above are low budget teams (higher chance of failure), Jeff Gordon, Marcos Ambrose, Jeff Burton, David Reutiman and Jamie McMurray are all driving for pretty decent teams.

You mean something like this...

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/DSC_0135.jpg

Or this...

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/DSC_0043.jpg

Like Gulliver said - I'm not an average fan... But then, average fans don't get to be as close to the racing action as I was when I took those shots...;)

Nothing like sprint cars and modifieds on dirt!! With the new EFI rule, you're going to see more engine failures until all the teams work the "bugs" out of the systems.

I've seen stuff floating in a cesspool that looks better than that.
/and I'm a chevy fan.

In my opinion, these are flat out some of the coolest looking cars on any track.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/DSC_0043.jpg

I think that pretty much sums it up. I think, though many car guys watch NASCAR, and even I try to get glimpses of the technology they're using, Nascar is a fan sport, not so much of a car-guy sport. If I took all of the Nascar fans I know around me; I know that they don't have project cars, most probably don't even know how to drive a manual, and most are going to watch the Stanley cup, even though they can't skate, and watch the super bowl, even though many haven't played football since the highschool gym teacher scheduled it.

My local machinist runs a sprint car. Awesome ride, great show at the track. I love to look at that thing and swipe as many ideas as I can, Like shocks that can be run upsidedown to lower the unsprung weight. It's funny to listen to him try to get drivers for it - "When they have enough sense not to wreck it, they have enough sense not to get in it!"

Another one, just for you...;)

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...0/DSC_0083.jpg