68 Firebird Ongoing Projects Thread
 

I’m the one who bought the Keith K’s 68 Firebird 400 convertible. It was listed in the “For Sale” section back in March. I posted a recent photo below in case you missed it.

I was looking for a classic Pontiac that my wife would feel comfortable driving—something smaller and easier to manage than my GTO, a restored HO 4-speed car. I showed my wife the photos Keith posted, and she fell in love with it. I thought it would work well for us, and it has. The car is a great driver--reliable, rust free, highly optioned, complete, and original looking. It’s been great to see my wife jump in “her” Pontiac with her friends to go out somewhere. I like driving it too (more so that I thought I would being a GTO guy)!

In any case, I thought I’d start a thread. Although it’s in nice shape, there are many projects that I’ll be tackling myself or farming out to folks with knowledge, skills, and abilities that I lack. The car is very original with 70k miles, so my hope is that the photos I post will be helpful.

First project: Replace the cracked deluxe steering wheel.

As the photo below shows, it’s cracked all the way around the hub. This is unfortunate because the wheel is perfect otherwise, and I love how it looks and feels. My first inclination was to repair it, but I’m skeptical that a repair will last--especially given that the car will spend time in the blistering sun here (it got up to 115 today). Also, the PHS indicates that the car came with a custom wood wheel. That’s what I decided to go with.

I picked up a correct 68 wood wheel from a forum member, cleaned up the spokes, and shipped it off to our host for remolding/refinishing. See photo. Hopefully it will be back in a few weeks. I purchased the collar and horn pieces from our host. The brushed finish on the plastic collar looks funky—I’ll look for an original piece to use.

All this leads me to the following question. Why was this Deluxe wheel on the car in the first place? I recall reading that there was a problem with the wood wheels when they were first introduced and they were replaced under warranty. This could have happened to my car since it’s a fairly early build (October 67). This also leads me to wonder whether GM/dealers substituted Deluxe wheels for wood wheels or whether this was the owner’s choice? Anyone recall how this went?

I would imagine that if the original wood wheel was defective, the dealer and the owner could come to any agreement that they wanted. If the owner was ok with replacing it with a Deluxe wheel, then I would guess that the dealer could do that. Just a guess though...
Nice car. Is it Meridian Turquoise?

Thanks Greg. It's Alpine Blue...which to me looks slightly brighter than Tyrol.

Just curious. I thought it could be blue since Alpine and Meridian really can look very much alike in photos.

Steering wheel components
 

Here are the reproduction pieces I purchased. I'm wondering how well the finish on these compares to original pieces. In particular, I'm curious about the collar, since it looks so different than the horn base. Does anyone have a close up photo of original pieces?

I ll see if I can get you a couple of pics
mine was perfect until someone dropped the horn button and it cracked.
It does look like the repros are a little bit shinier

I say restore the deluxe wheel. It really isn't that bad. Seriously. Mine was busted up in the hub and was missing pieces about the size of a quarter. Had over 50 cracks in the rim. Dremel tool to notch the cracks, kitty hair for strength, then body filler and spot putty. Mine has held up in my 95 plus heat for almost a year now and there is nothing like that wheel anywhere.

I really love the Deluxe wheels...they are rare as hen's teeth in decent condition. I would be surprised if one even exists in perfect, unrestored, condition. In other words, I think you could open the box on a NOS one buried in a warehouse somewhere and it'd be cracked.

Hey Jeff,
Attached picture is of an original '68 Bird wood wheel (low mileage car from Rob Lozins' collection). The cap and collar do have a different finish.

I started looking into this when I got the PHS and realized that "custom sport wheel" was supposed to be a wood wheel... not deluxe. But ultimately, my gut just told me that wheel had been on the car its whole life... and I couldn't bring myself to take it off. Plus I feel sort of like Greg and Bill... just something about the deluxe I liked. And I'm also with Greg on the cracked hub thing - I've never seen an original that DIDN'T have a cracked hub. Not sure what was up with that...

Anyway, glad the car went to you. It seems to be in good hands :)

I think Ive already mentioned that..
passed on a few NOS ones many many years ago because they came out of the box cracked.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I remember another thread on Deluxe wheels and I do recall that.

I appreciate the photo, Keith. It helps. We'll certainly take good care of the old girl. By the way, I couldn't imagine having a more positive experience buying a car from a distance. Thanks!

Pillar molding
 

The trim on my car is in great shape. The only piece in need of repair is the driver's side pillar molding. As the attached photo shows, it's buckled towards the bottom. It's misshapen slightly near the top as well.

Am wondering what's involved in removing the piece?

Anyone have a nice used one available? I'd like to have one on hand before I start this project.

I see that they're reproduced. Does anyone have any feedback as to how well they fit and look?

I want to try this kind of repair on my 68 Deluxe steering wheel. Where can I get the procedure for removing the wheel (so I don't ruin it in the process)?

I used Jim Richardson's automotive restoration book. Basicaly create a V-notch at each and every crack. I then applied the kitty hair all around the spaces. Sanded it then went with Body filler, sanding and them glazing putty and sanding. Primer then sanding, then color coat.

I did the body work on my car and it was wierd having to go in the circular patterns of the wheel. It has been holding up pretty well for the year in notheing less than 80-90 degree heat. Winter is a week in the 50's, so I don't know how it will hold up in the cold.

I have repro's on mine and they look and fit fine.

Swapping them out however is a small project. Gotta remove the rear view mirror, sun visor brackets and the chrome header moldings (hardest part to do). Remove pillar rubber strip to access the screws underneath holding the the pillar molding and remove it.

If it is the original part, it is also sealed underneath with dum-dum putty to the windshield frame so you will have to really pry on it to free it. I used a heat gun to soften the old putty while removing. I still ended up ruining/bending the original pieces trying to remove them (stuck on pretty good, needed replacement anyhow).

I haven't removed this particular wheel before, but I'm assuming it's similar to others: Pry the horn cap off, remove the nut and washer, use a puller to remove the wheel.

Thanks! You confirmed my intuition that the piece would likely become more misshapen upon removal (and thus reduce the likelihood that I'd be able to straighten it out). This is why I thought it would be a good idea to have a replacement piece on hand.

Am I correct to assume that the reproduction pieces are chrome rather than stainless? I'm concerned about a difference in finish as compared to the original piece since I only have to replace one side. Is there a dramatic difference?

just pull on the center cap,loosen the nut that holds wheel on by several turns,install steering wheel puller,pull until its up against the nut,unscrew nut,remove wheel

The repros are polished stainless like original. If your original on the other side is heavily scratched/dull you can use stainless polish on them and get them mirror-like again.

I have used Meguiars metal polish by hand with great results.

Thanks for the info! Glad to hear that they're stainless rather than chrome. Another question, are the Camaro pillar post moldings the same?

On another note. My wife gave me a Flex 3401 for Father's day. What a fantastic tool!

Cruise Control
 

The next small project on my list is the cruise control. Most of the components were on the car when I purchased it. I only needed to find a correct servo, a ball chain, and ball chain clip secures the chain to the special carburetor bracket.

The servo consists of two end plates, a 4-inch compression spring, and bellows. I couldn't find a complete unit but I was able to piece one together. A member here gave me the end plates and spring—thank you very much pmdtech! I sent the endplates to Steve Gregori for plating in yellow zinc. I bought the bellows from OPGI. The ball chain came from ACE hardware. Finally, I bought a ball chain clip from Pete Serio. Photo 1 shows the servo assembled and installed prior to the plating and photo 2 shows the pieces after being plated along with the ball chain clip.

I installed everything, took it for a test drive, but unfortunately it didn’t work. When I hit the cruise button, nothing happened--and it didn't matter what speed I was traveling. I tested the servo by connecting it to the vacuum source directly, and it appeared to function correctly (important safety tip, remove the ball chain from the servo when you do this or the servo will pull the carb wide open—man, that was scary).

I rechecked the connections, and everything appeared to be in order, except for one thing. I believe the vacuum line to the bellows should have a tee in it with another vacuum line coming through the firewall to the brake release switch (hard to tell from the figure in the Service Manual).

Here’s my question, does this vacuum line connection from the brake switch need to be made in order for the cruise to engage (in which case, this may be the problem), or is this vacuum connection only needed to disengage the cruise (in which case, my problem is elsewhere in the system)?

Any other tips are welcome!

I haven't made much progress lately. I've been traveling quite a bit this summer, and when I've been home, it's been too dang hot in the garage to do much of anything.

I did take the car for a long drive this morning. Part of the trip (about 50 miles) was on the interstate, and although the car seemed to run perfectly fine at 70mph, I couldn't help but think that 3400rpm was taxing the old girl. Although at some point, I will have the gears changed out, the first order of business will be to replace the short tires that are on the car now--205 60 14 Goodyear ST. Of course, this opens up the question of what to go with.

My first inclination is to order a set of 225 70 14 redlines for the 14x6 Rally 2s that are on the car now. However, I'm having trouble making a decision because I really like how the car looks with RWLs and I don't know how it will look with redlines. I also have a nice set of 15X7 Rally 2s in my garage, and these open the door to even more possibilities. decisions decisions....

What gears are in it now? 3:55s?

Yes, I believe they are 3.55.

I plan to change them out because the taller tires will only reduce rpms by 150-200 when cruising..In fact, I recently purchased what I think is a correct 3.08 ring and pinion set from a member here (I know I'll have to find an appropriate posi carrier too), but something puzzles me. The ring measure 8.2 inches across, there are 27 splines on the pinion, and I counted 40 teeth on the ring and 13 teeth on the pinion. I though I was good to go until I saw what seems to be an inconsistency in the stamped codes on the ring and pinion. The stamp on the ring is 40 13 GM 4 66 LO, and the stamp on pinion is 39 14 GM 4 66 TA. From my understanding 39 14 is a 2.78 gear set, and this wasn't available until 67, and besides, there are definitely 13 teeth on the pinion not 14. Either the pinion has the wrong stamp, or I'm not reading the codes correctly. Anyone have any insight into this?

Change of Plans
 

We decided not to change out the rear gears. Instead, we're going with an overdrive transmission...specifically, an 200-4r that's been upgraded/strengthened. This will give the car the ability to cruise on the highway like it has better than 2.56 gears while at the same time increasing acceleration off the line. It will certainly take away from the car's originality, but it's an acceptable trade-off to us given how much we drive it. Also, except for the dip stick tube and TV cable, the change won't be very visible.

wise choice
I did the 200-4r up grade to my 67 Sprint in the 80s and never looked back

The project just got more involved...
 

we decided to pull the motor. 70k, and other than the timing chain cover, it doesn't look to have been cracked open. Kind of feel bad about doing this, but it's time. Initially was just going to reseal to take care of leaks, but now will have it rebuilt to make it pump gas friendly. The car had enough timing pulled out of it so that it didn't ping, but was pretty lazy. It was remarkably stronger with timing in it, but the engine would't last without race gas. Haven't settled on what will go into the rebuild, but will maintain factory stock appearance...kind of on the fence between a relatively stock rebuild (dished pistons, 068 cam, refurbished rods & crank) and something with a bit more performance (stroker crank, mild H roller cam, forged rods, etc.). Either way, the car will be a joy to drive with the 200-4r...

Engine is now at the machine shop. The 200-4r with beefed up internals has been ordered and I sent a very nice correctly dated 7028264 XE to Cliff Ruggles to be set-up for the engine. I haven't made a decision about which way to go with the engine rebuild yet.

In the mean time, I also have to decide whether to go with paint or powder coat on the the subframe, suspension pieces, inner fenders, etc..thoughts?

Hi, Just thought I would chime in. I bought my '68 FB 6 months ago from my neighbor. He had sub frame, core support and everything else powder coated. They do look nice. Had them dipped/stripped, then powder coated. Scott :usa2:

On subframes, I like to have them dip stripped and then electrocoat primer dipped. That way the coating gets everywhere on the inside of the frame, too. There are not too many places to have that done, though...

Will have to look into the dip strip and electrocoat primer dip...can't believe that it wouldn't be available here...

On another note, with the high temperature today in Phoenix forecasted to be 86, it's officially the first day of convertible season! Why did I have to go and start this project now? The plan is to have everything back together by the end of February (before convertible season ends).

Not much news to report. I'm still on the fence with regard to the the motor...though now I'm leaning heavily towards a pump-gas friendly mild stroker type of combo.

I received an email from UPS that a package from PY is on the way...I'm thinking it's the wood wheel I sent for remolding/refinishing in the spring. Looking forward to seeing how it turned out!

I also picked up a correct '68 timing chain cover from a member...now I need to find a good water pump.

I'll also be switching out the original dummy-light gauges with a minty set of Rally gauges I found...which means that some wiring harnesses will need to be replaced too...

Love the build thread.

I think you should have DCI open the chambers on the heads you have and put a 428 stroker crank in it if there any left.

I'd do the stroker, Jeff, if you're pulling the whole motor apart anyway. By it's a nature the car is a cruiser, not a racer... so big low end torque is the ticket. Plus it's a heavy car -- cubes will be its friend! And they're invisible.

Thanks rohrt, but it wasn't intended as a build thread. I had a several relatively small stand-alone projects that I thought would be good to document here...but as noted by The Fixx, one thing leads to another!

I agree Keith...that's the logic that has us moving towards a mild stroker...we'll be giving up a point of compression, but the cubes will more than make up for it. The only trouble is the slippery slope that follows this decision...RA manifolds (mini-starter), exhaust, bigger cam, fuel supply, etc...I just have to keep telling myself to keep things simple and factory appearing...the 200-4r is a deviation for sure, but the only obvious evidence from the engine bay will be the TV cable and dip stick tube...

The steering wheel arrived today, and it turned out really nice. Well worth the time and $$$.

looks like brand new!

Do they refinish the spokes and plastic or just the plastic? I need to get one done but the spokes are pitted.

The service only includes re-molding & finishing the plastic. Your best bet is to start with a straight wheel with nice looking spokes--I see them on eBay on a fairly regular basis...

Thanks,my spokes are pitted and the plastic is perfect.

I was hoping the cylinders could be cleaned up, but it looks like the block will need to be bored .030 over. The crank checked out fine, so I'm going to use it. I'll be going with forged rods and pistons (dished), a very mild custom ground hydraulic roller (068 mild), and a high quality valve job/cleanup/rebuild of the original 16 heads. I haven't decided whether I'll be sticking with stock distributor & points set up. Regardless, I'm pretty confident this combo will more than make up for the point of compression I'll be giving up to make it run well on pump gas. The original intake along with a correct 708264 q-jet will top it off. Here's a photo of the carb before it was sent off to Cliff Ruggles for assembly and set-up (thank you 6d7gto for your help putting this kit together).

I've been told the engine is almost together and that it should be ready for the dyno later this week. It's an added expense, but it gives me some piece of mind knowing that everything's as it should be when it's dropped back in.

We decided to stick with the TH400. Besides the added complexity of the 200-4r, we felt it would detract somewhat from the car's otherwise bone stock vibe. We can always make the change later if we want, and it will be nice to save the coin for another project (one may be on the horizon).

The front clip is off and thankfully we found no surprises. The lower cowls look great (see photo). The fenders looked really good as well. The front passenger-side inner fender was banged up...maybe a tire blew out or ran over something.

The second photo shows the A/C hoses to the condenser. I was surprised to see that they were sandwiched between the core support and inner fender. Is this right? I would have thought the hoses would be routed through the core support, but I didn't seen any provision for this.

Attached is a photo of the engine on the dyno from yesterday. It peaked at 393hp (@ 5400) and 460lb-ft tq (@ 3800rpm) and averaged 323hp and 432lb-ft from 2500 to 5400. Not bad for a small hydraulic roller (214 218 with 112 LSA). It's happy idling at 650rpm to boot!

Wow imprssive torq numbers.

Any porting with the #16 heads?
Who specd the cam? Any more info on it?

Engine builder spec'd the cam (3190 and 3313 Comp lobes). With respect to head porting, he just worked the intake bowls a bit and matched the port openings. He knows his way around Pontiac engines.

front spring finish?
 

I'm going to try to replicate factory finishes, and I'm curious about the front springs. Natural metal, correct?

Wondering if anyone has a PY coded 68 TH400 transmission available...preferably dated prior to late October 1967.

natural metal on the front springs is correct according to Team Camaro, and I have never seen a factory spring with any evidence of paint. However is thought that factory replacement springs may have been painted to keep them from rusting in parts storage.

Somebody in San Diego has early Firebird T-400, I dont know what year, but pm me if you want his number.

I just replaced my TH400 with an overdrive unit. Will need to get to the shop in Tempe to check the dates, but will get back to you.