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Roll Call: Ram Air II 68 GTO's
List will be updated as frequently as they come in with enough details and documentation.
Currently we have 12 of these cars Documented over the past 6 years. Out of the 246 cars built - thats only about 5% 199 4speed 47 Automatic If you own or have concrete knowledge of a 68 GTO Ram Air II car - please share and add to the information / data pool we have been compiling for these extra awesome GTO's. Provide as much info/details as possible. Billing History Card, tranny, colors, options, build date, condition, original drivetrain intact, etc ... Not trying to pinpoint car location or location of owner - just documenting the cars themselves. And trying to keep any from being counted more than once. |
Current Known List
1. Convertible Black- Black top- Gold interior - 4spd
Unrestored excellent survivor - high option - 56k miles Sold at Mecum for 165k in 2011 or 2012 Documented BHC on PY 2. Convertible Burgandy- White top- White interior - 4spd Being Frame Off Restored - well optioned John in Ohio Documented BHC on PY 3. Convertible Gold - Gold interior - Blk top - Automatic Low mile survivor with cosmetic resto Rob L in Illinois documented 4. Convertible Red - Blk top - Blk interior - 4spd Mark of Mich. his cousin bought it New. Been sold. 5. Blue - Blue interior - Automatic Numbers match, intact survivor Gary Oklahoma documented 6. VooDoo Green - Black interior - Automatic Project - missing drivetrain Chris "The Boss" in Conn. - bought from Gary Okla documented 7. VooDoo Green - Black Vinyl top - Black interior 4spd Matching #s original survivor - has now been frame off restored by Greg Teeters previously owned by Gary Oklahoma Sold to Kevin in Seattle documented 8. VooDoo Green - Black interior 4spd Brian OhiO Documented BHC on PY 9. Alpine Blue Automatic Unknown Owner Documented BHC on PY 10. Aegena Blue - Black interior - 4spd Bought on eBay as a project / parts car - was left outside with no front clip Turns out as Matching #s Ram2 - parked since 1972 with 52k miles Currently undergoing frame-off resto by owner PY member gto66yellow in Indiana documented * 11. MIA - block only Gold - Blk interior 4spd Documented BHC on PY Block / engine sold on eBay * 12. MIA - block only Gold - Gold interior 4spd Documented BHC on PY Block belongs to PY member in GA. 13. Green - Gold interior 4spd project car being frame off restored by owner now in Georgia - PY member gahotrods Documented BHC on PY 14. Red - Blk interior - Blk Vinyl top - 4spd Real Good above driver quality - older resto Sold for 40k June 2012 Meccum Auction Came from Salmon Brothers Collection Have not seen any documents or dates Unknown Owner Knafel in Ohio 68 GTO Ram2 Race Car |
For starters , in case you think you may have a prospect in the barn or in the bushes , your PHS Billing Card would need to have a 7 in option box 34 - - aka 347.
The build date on the trim tag would need to be after 05A - earlier models will be Ram Air 1 Actually 05C is about as early as they (Ram 2) come - but anything built in May is worth checking out. We can verify any of them accurately - via breaking the option prices data on the Billing History from scratch and coming back up from base price of car. Along with destination charge. Ram Air II was a running change late in the production model year. It superceeded the Ram Air 1 option, and had a slightly higher cost than Ram 1. The Ram1 and Ram2 were not available at the same time as an Either / Or selection - such as Ram Air III and Ram Air IV were in 69 and 70. If your prospect has or had Factory Air Conditioning - likely no need to pursue it any further. All these GTO's came standard with 4.33 gears and A/C was not available. A copy of the Billing History Card is The Supreme proof positive. You do not need to reveal your full VIN if you don't want to. I will be glad to do the math / science on any #347 optioned car to determine its status. (with build date No Earlier than 05A) Inquire by posting here - or by Pvt. Msg. We have the methods and pricing descrepencies down to the full science. Some are more complicated than others. The math/science does not lie or play favorites. |
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Sample of the science/math to determine between Ram Air 1 and Ram Air 2
If you try to do your own and have trouble - there are some descrepencies on certain things at different points in the year model. Feel free to ask for help if you encounter problems. THE MATH HAS TO MATCH EXACTLY. 37 5 is actually 37 S = 4.33 axle |
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Todd, is #9 the BHC to the XW engine I sold a few years ago to **** in MI?
And correction on the number of Auto cars - For some reason I thought Brian's was an auto. |
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Yes dammit , #9 is the one from that BHC you supplied.
I never knew at that time - it was just from an engine you had. LoL i'll change that one to MIA status on next listing update. Dropping the MIA's from being numbered probably is a better idea too. This is the BHC that Brian supplied to a Green 4spd. He will have to comment to verify i guess ... else he owes us another BHC ! |
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My master list collection on 68 RamAir2 stuff is on a crashed computer.
I'm running off of what i was able to search back and find posted in threads. Had a nice clear Color Picture of this same 68 Knafel Tin Indian photo. Maybe someone else has a color copy ? |
anyone know where this car is today????
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Update after correction.
Only 11 GTO's MIA's are now un-numbered , but still retain honorable mention. 1. Convertible Black- Black top- Gold interior - 4spd Unrestored excellent survivor - high option - 56k miles Sold at Mecum for 165k in 2011 or 2012 Documented BHC on PY 2. Convertible Burgandy- White top- White interior - 4spd Being Frame Off Restored - well optioned John in Ohio Documented BHC on PY 3. Convertible Gold - Gold interior - Blk top - Automatic Low mile survivor with cosmetic resto Rob L in Illinois documented 4. Convertible Red - Blk top - Blk interior - 4spd Mark of Mich. his cousin bought it New. Been sold. 5. Blue - Blue interior - Automatic Numbers match, intact survivor Gary Oklahoma documented 6. VooDoo Green - Black interior - Automatic Project - missing drivetrain Chris "The Boss" in Conn. - bought from Gary Okla documented 7. VooDoo Green - Black Vinyl top - Black interior 4spd Matching #s original survivor - has now been frame off restored by Greg Teeters previously owned by Gary Oklahoma Sold to Kevin in Seattle documented 8. VooDoo Green - Black interior 4spd Brian OhiO Documented BHC on PY 9. Aegena Blue - Black interior - 4spd Bought on eBay as a project / parts car - was left outside with no front clip Turns out as Matching #s Ram2 - parked since 1972 with 52k miles Currently undergoing frame-off resto by owner PY member gto66yellow in Indiana documented 10. Green - Gold interior 4spd project car being frame off restored by owner now in Georgia - PY member gahotrods Documented BHC on PY 11. Red - Blk interior - Blk Vinyl top - 4spd Real Good above driver quality - older resto Sold for 40k June 2012 Meccum Auction Came from Salmon Brothers Collection Have not seen any documents or dates Unknown Owner * MIA - Knafel in Ohio 68 GTO Ram2 Tin Indian Race Car * MIA - complete LongBlock Alpine Blue - Automatic Documented BHC on PY * MIA - block only Gold - Blk interior 4spd Documented BHC on PY Block / engine sold on eBay * MIA - block only Gold - Gold interior 4spd Documented BHC on PY Block belongs to PY member in GA. |
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Knafel had the 68 for sale in Aug. 68. Supposedly was bought by a local kid who destroyed it in 71. Was told it was written up in the Akron paper due to the ex race car connection.
The guy who told me seemed to have a lot of detail, but personally can not substantiate it. I even spent an afternoon at the Akron library going through the 71 and 72 papers, but never found anything. |
I talked with a gentlemen by the name of Ross out of Troy, MI who said he had a red hardtop.
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More info and PHS to come...
The GTO hardtop I have spoken of is located in Monroe, a Cincinnati subburb on the north side. The owners name is Mark, he purchased the car in the early eighties when in high school, the original motor and trans were long gone and he had no idea the car was anything special. It had, and still has, a later 400 and had been converted to an automatic. He drove it until college and then parked it, it sat for twenty years when he decided to get it running. It went to a Restoration shop in Mason OH for brakes, etc. He spent close to 10K just going through the mechanicals and getting it back on the road. While at the shop one day, I looked it over and the shop owner told me the car had a 4.33 rear... I immediately checked the build date and when I saw the Pontiac built car had a June build date, I recommended they get the PHS. A few weeks later it was confirmed! VooDoo Green Black cordova top and interior RA II 4-speed Hood tach and gauges Console Ralley II's Hideaway's I should have a copy of the PHS this week. Plans are underway for a frame-off restoration, no time-frame as of now. I need to add... I am in no way involved in this project, nor do I know the owner. I know the owner of the other shop, that is where the work was performed and also where the restoration will be done. |
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Brian |
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There was also the Stephen Pontiac 1968 GTO, with a chrome beak and a RAII, out of Bristol, CT. Stephen Pontiac had 2 Pontiacs they raced at that time, the other was a 69 Firebird RAIV. I believe both cars were Mayfair Maize in color. They then ran a RAV powered Firebird from 1970-1973.
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That's the one Mike, lightweight chrome nose too!
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so was the chrome nose an option thru the whole model year on the 68 gto's? for some reason all these years i was under the impression that it was an early build only???
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Endura Delete option - Sales Code no. 674 - Chrome Front Bumper (4200 only Credit) -$26.33
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Mark did secure some Ram Air II heads for the car, I've forgotten the date code.
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Just for the record Todd - Gary only beat me by 20 minutes buying my car out of Hemmings in the early 90's, and although there is no drivetrain in the car now, there's a complete one sitting here at my house - XW motor with 4054 Arma Steel crank, D228 96 heads, D208 234 intake and Cliff Ruggles rebuilt 7028270 carb, a fully rebuilt/restored 69 PQ trans (still looking for a 68) and a correct dated 68 ZL rear.
With the 5/28/68 Billing date on the BHC is mine the earliest PHS we have? |
Boss , i knew you'd have all the pieces to put her back into 1 piece - if anyone would have them. Glad to know you didn't sell / trade all of it already. You had a lotta 68 RamAir hardwares years ago.
YES that IS the earliest dated RamII GTO we have on record so far. 5 / 31 / 68 Baltimore is next closest. (Black-Gold-Black Vert) And i don't have a BHC copy for your Green Auto Deuce btw ... hint hint ;) Wonder how that owner knew it was gennie Ram2 back in early 90's without #'s engine ? |
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And for being sharp enough to aid in re-discovering the cars pedigree. Owner must surely be very pleased that he stuck with the car all these years. Its almost identical to the car that Gary sold Kevin , as far as colors / equipment. Look forward to more when you can. Big Thanks :Peace: |
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It does look pale like Mayfair Maize. And a good shot of the 69 IV Towne Bird while i'm at it. In case you don't have these. Thanks for posting the 68 GTO Stephen Racer :) |
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Maybe you're messing with me here - That IS the one you sold to Kevin , sitting at Greg's shop after he finished it. I popped that picture up in case Mark in OhiO happens to browse the Forum sometime. It should give him a big boost of encouragement seeing what his will look like if he does eventually restore it. (project car) His has just a couple more options as built - i think. But same exterior appearance with HideAways, Vinyl Top, Rally2's, same Colors |
Here is the shakedown / breakdown on The Boss's VooDoo Deuce
68 GTO Ram Air II - Automatic QQ VooDoo Green / 23 Black Buckets Built at Pontiac Plant Build Date Invoice date 5 / 28 /68 From 21 / To 34 Zone 08 / Dealer 219 Marte Pontiac - Columbus, Ohio 347 Ram Air .......................................... blank 351 THM 400 Auto ...............................236.97 361 STT HD Posi ...................................63.19 37S Axle 4.33 ........................................ n/c 382 AM Radio P.Btn ................................61.09 394 Stereo Tape Player .........................133.76 444 Rally Gauges & Tach .........................84.26 453 Rally 2 Wheels .................................84.26 472 Console Automatic ...........................68.46 501 Power Steer ...................................94.79 621 Ride & Handle ...................................4.21 71R/72C G77x14 Redlines...........................n/c 754 Front Shoulder Belts ...........................n/c Option Total .........................................830.99 Destination ............................................41.50 Base Price ..........................................3101.00 Sub Total ...........................................3973.49 Ram Air II ........................................... 473.94 TOTAL ............................................. 4447.43 ======================================== Label Price ........................................4447.43 :usa2: |
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Thanks Todd, drum brakes but thankfully power steering!
Here's another bad to the bone auto car that is now the earliest known Duece since it's VIN is prior to mine but the two were likely visible from each other on the line. RED on RED and possibly the good Doctor will remember it running Woodward back in the day. This car is alive & well and still resides in the Detroit area. |
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Freddy Flinstone could probably get stopped quicker than that screaming GreenMachine. Forgot to post the BHC to the Boss's VooDooDeucer with the shakedown list. Here ya go |
The rundown on the RedBull car
68 GTO Ram Air II - Automatic RR Red - 25 Red Interior Built at Pontiac Plant Build Date Invoice Date = 6 / 05 / 68 To 21 / From 21 Zone 07 Dealer 735 Simpson Pontiac - Southgate Michigan 347 Ram Air .......................................... blank 351 THM 400 Auto................................. 236.97 361 STT HD Posi..................................... 63.19 37S Axle Ratio 4.33.................................. n/c 414 HideAways ......................................52.66 424 L.H. Remote Mirror .............................9.48 434 Hood Tach ......................................63.19 453 Rally 2 Wheels .................................84.26 476 (472 Console Auto..................................68.46 (474 Clock n/c - incl with 484......................0 484 Gauges & Clock ...............................50.55 494 Rally Stripes................................... 10.53 503 (501 Pwr Steer .....................................94.79 (502 Pwr Brakes ...................................42.13 521 Front Disc Brakes ............................63.19 71R/72C G77 Redlines...............................n/c 754 Shoulder Belts ................................. n/c Options Total...................................... 839.40 Destination ......................................... 13.25 Base Price ....................................... 3101.00 Sub Total ........................................ 3953.65 Ram Air II ......................................... 473.94 TOTAL............................................ 4427.59 ==================================== Label Price ..................................... 4427.59 :pontiac: |
Regarding these RAII cars why do some of the Car Billing History documents show a Motor Unit Number and others only show a line of zeros for the Motor Unit Number.
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That's a real good question and it is common with the Firebirds in the April/May time frame as well.
I honestly think they had no idea which motors were going in which cars, so no numbers went in. My 05A RA I Auto Baltimore Built car had no unit numbers either. |
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Did you notice that REDBULL is radio delete! :eek: |
On the 68 Ram GTO's - the ones built at Pontiac Plant - got the EUN / TUN printed.
Baltimore and Framingham didn't get them printed. (00000000) Other Plants - idunno yet. On the 68 Ram Birds - it looks like Lordstown Plant (U) got the EUN / TUN printed. Van Nuys Plant (L) did not. (00000000) As we get more BHC's - we might know more. And see more exceptions. But , all the engines and trannys themselves did get the EUN / TUN stamped into them at all plants. |
Yes noticed the RedBull was Anti-Radio.
Wonder if its ever had a hole poked into the passenger fender (or pass. qtr.) by now ? |
Deuce Count
1. Convertible Black- Black top- Gold interior - 4spd
Unrestored excellent survivor - high option - 56k miles Sold at Mecum for 165k in 2011 or 2012 Documented BHC on PY 2. Convertible Burgandy- White top- White interior - 4spd Being Frame Off Restored - well optioned John in Ohio Documented BHC on PY 3. Convertible Gold - Gold interior - Blk top - Automatic Low mile survivor with cosmetic resto Rob L in Illinois documented 4. Convertible Red - Blk top - Blk interior - 4spd Mark of Mich. his cousin bought it New. Been sold. 5. Blue - Blue interior - Automatic Numbers match, intact survivor Gary Oklahoma documented 6. VooDoo Green - Black interior - Automatic Project - missing origial drivetrain - but has the Right Stuff to put it back together Chris "The Boss" in Conn. - bought from Gary Okla Documented BHC on PY 7. VooDoo Green - Black Vinyl top - Black interior 4spd Matching #s original survivor - has now been frame off restored by Greg Teeters previously owned by Gary Oklahoma Sold to Kevin in Seattle documented 8. VooDoo Green - Black interior - 4spd Brian OhiO Documented BHC on PY 9. Aegena Blue - Black interior - 4spd Bought on eBay as a project / parts car - was left outside with no front clip Turns out as Matching #s Ram2 - parked since 1972 with 52k miles Currently undergoing frame-off resto by owner PY member gto66yellow in Indiana documented 10. Green - Gold interior - 4spd project car being frame off restored by owner now in Georgia - PY member gahotrods Documented BHC on PY 11. Red - Blk interior - Blk Vinyl top - 4spd Real Good above driver quality - older resto Sold at Mecum auction Summer 2012 From Salmon Brothers Collection 12. VooDoo Green - Blk interior - Blk vinyl top - 4spd Same owner since early 80's Only recently discovered the car was factory Ram Air II (thanks Paul) Non-original engine and converted to Automatic - prior to his ownership Frame-Off Restoration is now planned. Mark in OhiO - info supplied by PY member PaulatFast Documented 13. Red - Red interior - Automatic RedBull in Michigan Documented BHC on PY == == == == == == == == == == *MIA - Knafel in Ohio 68 GTO Ram2 Tin Indian Race Car appears to be White body with Black interior - 4spd *MIA - Stephen Pontiac in Conn. 68 GTO Ram2 Race Car Mayfair Maize - 4spd - Endura Delete / Chrome Nose * MIA - complete LongBlock Alpine Blue - Automatic Documented BHC on PY * MIA - block only Gold - Blk interior 4spd Documented BHC on PY Block / engine sold on eBay * MIA - block only Gold - Gold interior 4spd Documented BHC on PY Block belongs to PY member in GA. |
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Back to the hunt again...
Anyone have any of these old GOATFINDER editions ? Or info regarding ? Is John Allen of Illinois a member here ? http://www.angelfire.com/fl/pontiacgtos/page5.html Our 8/96 issue featured .... and a '68 RA II RoundPort Firebird ad reprint! Our 12/96 issue featured ...and JOHN TORREANO's INCREDIBLE 7,747-mile '68 RA II "Round-Port" GTO Convertible - the ONLY documented one in the country!!! Our 4/97 issue featured ....and the extraordinary legacy of the KNAFEL PONTIAC "Tin Indian" Racing Team - campaigning 42 cars across No. America from 1959-1971!!! Our 1/98 issue featured the (12) KNAFEL PONTIAC '69 Ram Air V TUNNELİPORT GTOS! The (50) KNAFEL '70 Tempest Sedans (w/GTO 400ci engines & other tricks Our 3/98 issue featured ...Plus the '68 & '70 KNAFEL Firebirds both sporting the ONLY "Porcupine HemiİHead" TUNNELİPORT engine ever made, and both also being World Champs! Our 5/98 issue featured John Torreano's 7,700İmile '68 RA II/auto RoundPort GTO Ragtop & the KNAFEL Pontiac '69 Ram Air V GTO! Our 8/98 issue featured ... '70 WT51 White JUDGE! Our 9/98 issue featured ... RARE KNAFEL Pontiac '65 GTO Test cars & '54 Strato Streak Experimental Factory ptototype; Any info's on any of this stuff would be Great Info's. |
At this time there has been 23 Ram Air II GTO vin numbers documented through PHS. Out of the 23 documented vehicles, 4 are convertibles. There is no way to tell if anyone has just documented an engine or a complete car.
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Car #4... does anyone know who now owns this red convertible?
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A red on red would be one sharp car! Only black on black would be better.
Hey I found the door to ours last night - does that count for anything? Was going thru a pile of interior parts and the door was under all of it. Was scratching my head on why I put it there and when? |
Baron, I replied to your query in the dedicated thread you started.
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Thanks for taking a look if you can guys.
Proposing that the mentioned John T. 68 Auto Vert is our Car #3 ? |
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Would have hoped for more candidates than that tho ... dern. Looks like we have all 4 of the known Verts. And 16 of the 23 total , with 3 being PHS/BCH engines. Another factoid - "as per HPP April 1992 issue- WY 9790573-366hp,4bbl, man.trans RA II- 229 engines-199 cars built. XW-9790574-366hp,4bbl auto trans.RAII- 53 engines-47 cars built." 36 leftovers. Wonder if they would get disassembled and used as service parts ? Or just sorta disappear through a back door ? |
No idea, but the later blocks were the 0071 castings either ground & stamped or left as cast - they could have just pulled these apart, decked the face and used them again, or just tossed them in the smelter.
I know the Alpine Blue (06/24/68 invoice date) block I had was a C118 9792506 block so I have to figure my 05C built Pontiac plant car got a C118 block - which is what I have for it. :D |
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The John T. 68 Ram2 Vert is the same car as #3 on current list.
Just a different owner now. Still the only 1 documented Ram2 Auto Vert in the country / world. Same collector also owns the 5,000 'ish mile VooDoo Green Ram2 Bird that previously belonged to Jim Mattison. |
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Is it the same car as RedBull #13 ? Chasing a lead on another Michigan Deuce that i found info about on another website. Unknown color / options / condition Only know this : it lives in Michigan sold new through PMD Retail Store same owner since 1976 WY block code Had #722 69 IV heads in place when bought in 76 - and still in place as of 1 year ago. Brian S. has attempted to contact the owner through the HPP website about a week ago. No word as of yet. His screen name on HPP is gto wolf or gtowolf BHC to the car is his avatar, but its too small to translate it. :( If anyone knows the owner, would be great to hear more from him about the car. And would gladly verify/document his BHC info for him if he would share with us. |
Baron,
Yes, Ross's car is #13. Do you have any information regarding car #4? Is there any way I can get in touch with Mark of MI? Thanks |
That is Mark Weymouth.
He posted about it (GTO Vert) in the Bird RamAir II roll call thread. He owns two Ram2 Birds. You could try contacting him via PM from his post in that thread. Or someone might know how to contact him through business channels. He only has a couple/few posts on here. But believe he is well known in most Pontiac circles from way back. |
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