long tailshaft muncies
 

Does anybody know how much longer the extension housing is on a long shaft muncie's 4speed manual than the regular lenght tailshaft housing, better still can someone post a photo as well?
Thanks Richard

'64 GP uses standard length extension housing.

It appears to me that something is not right under my car because when i've gone to fit some new park brake cables from inline, the intermediate lever wants to be fitted in the factory postion but cant because the crossmembers blocking the slot in the chasiss.
I previously had it bolted to the lower edge of the chasiss.
There are two square holes further back which look like the crossmember should mount to, What are these for?
Also looking at shop manual it appears that cross member is mounted further rearward.
Thats the advantange of photos that any one may be able to post.
Thanks, Richard

It is 6-3/8 inches longer and the rear trans mount is proportional at 6-3/8 farther back than the short Muncie.

Will check my car tomorrow during daylight and see if I can figure out what's going on with yours.

some photos
 

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Firstly thank you both for your replies.
I brought this car over 25 years ago,It was the great dash and chrome gauges that made me want to buy it, previous owners to me had removed all running gear(350 chev last engine, originally 389), in fact someone gas cut the engine mounts from engine crossmember leaving two holes. So after soucing a 455 I han no exact knowledge of the correct engine placement. Being a factory 4 speed I purchased a m20 dropped it in the hole and mounted where it looked like it should go. Now I've replaced the 9" with an original item I imported from states and have replaced the park brake cables with proper ones & found crossmember to far foward.
I found a photo of an auto clearly showing cross member further aft, also took photos of my GP
I've circled the brake adjusting clevis which is right were crossmember is & possible x member mount holes
See what you think of these photos Cheers Richard

Long Tail Muncie
 

This is the transmission from my 66 2+2
Hope this is what you are looking for
I have a spare long tail extension housing & shaft if you are interested in changing your M-20 into a long tail version. ;)
Brian

Keep in mind my measurements are for the 65 to 70 muncie long tailshaft trans.

Long Tail Muncie
 

Cool,Yeah that's definitely a long tailshaft!
Do I have room for that, I'm not sure
So what/how did they do it for 63-4?
Those square holes in the photo are just over 6" behind where xmember is currently mounted.
Jon is your GP a 4 speed?
I need photos of a 4 speed 64 GP to confirm where to go from here.
Thanks Richard

Long tail muncie
 

Hi Richard
Beautiful looking GP! :)
Bob is right about the long tail M-20 Muncie being for 65 & up full size Pontiacs
It wouldn't be "correct" for a 64, but I thought since you already have an M-20, changing the extension housing & shaft would be an easy swap to convert it to a long tail version. I think that the rear housing and the longer shaft are the only parts you would need.
Steve Peluso (stevep) is one of the resident trans experts on the forum to ask. ;)
Making it a long tail version M-20 would put the trans cross member back to where it belongs in a manual trans car.
Brian

The square holes in the frame are where the carriage bolts went in the original cross- member location. This would have been used for a t-10 4 speed or the automatics.

The Pics of the E-brake cabling look right like on my '63. There are different fulcrum points where the thing can be adjusted. See where the clevis pin goes in and there are 3 holes. So if I understand your issue, that could be it. If the assembly is in a slot in the frame by the driver's door, then it is probably in the stock location as I don't see how it could be hooked up if it was not. It is not the greatest design with the cable under the x member. At least that is how I ran it b/c I did not want it neat the U-joint/drive shaft. Just gave me the creeps.

That is correct. The only two parts needed to convert to a long Muncie are the tail housing and main shaft.

muncie vs T10
 

Thanks for all the help guys i'm slowly getting it.
So 64 big car 4 speed pontiac's where equipped with the T10, and these had a longer tailshaft or was just the over all box longer. 65-68 had the longer tailshaft Muncie.
For some reason I though the muncie was pretty much idenitical to the T10!
After checking a web site turns out my Muncie is a 69 M20
Jon is your GP a T10 4speed or auto Cheers Richard

Hi 64gpnz,
Here is the deal. '64 they did start using muncies. They had the shorter tailshaft, but have a funny trans mount. Instead of using the two bolt holes in the tailshaft, it clamps onto the very end of the tailshaft. The mount is hard to find which is probably why they did that non-stock mount.

Regards,
Jon

Here are some photos of the correct setup.

I would be careful with the long tailshaft housing - the '65 and later cars used different automatic transmissions, and different tailshaft housings on the manuals than the '63/64 big cars, so the long tailshaft muncie bolt holes may not line up with the '63/64 crossmember mounting holes. It may work, but there's no guarentee. If you can find the correct '63/64 transmission mount pieces, and a stock crossmember, this would be your best bet. If not, you could use the long tailshaft, but the crossmember may not line up perfectly, and you may have to move it forward or back from the stock mounting location.

Looks like the correct mount isn't that hard to find... Brad at Fabcraft is selling them now!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PONTIAC-1962...771f76&vxp=mtr

Hey, Jon thats great I was just saying I will have to ask Brad if he knows/does anything for this.
Thanks for the photos, I know its arkward to take them' its a little hard to see excatly how it's held, I'll study them again tomorrow.
I'd really love to go five speed but thats another ball game & a lot more cash.
Front disc's are a higher priorty
Cheers Richard

tailshaft bracket
 

I had a look at fabcraft's ebay store at the correct 64 tailshaft, it is designed to clamp around the very end of the extension housing, no wounder they improved the design the following year, but unfortunately this doesn't explain the park brake intermediate lever clash with my crossmember!
Jon(or anybody else) could you please show me a photo of your GP crossmember from slighly further back so I can see the brake cables & details of the intermediate lever.
Thanks Richard

'63 Cat Safari:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...SCF0002_24.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...e/DSCF0083.jpg

Richard,
Somebody moved your crossmember forward from the stock location - I think you mentioned there are square holes about 6 inches back. If you move your crossmember back to those holes, and use the correct transmission mount, your parking brake stuff should clear.

BTW, the tailshaft housing on your Muncie should work with the correct transmission mount just fine. That mount is designed to work with the standard (ie. "short" tail housing) Muncie.

puzzle solved
 

Hi Jon,
Thanks for taking the time to take those nice clear photos.
Definitely solved the last part of my puzzle.
I'm not absoluetly sold on the actual strengh of the bracket compared to being mounted from the two 7/16 bolts slightly more forward on the bottom.
But I suppose the 421's handled it ok.
I'll have to get one of those brackets from fabcraft asap.
Probably have to adjust the exhaust to fit the new position of the x-member.
Oh well it'll keep me out of the pub!
Thanks again Jon 7 to all who posted.
Cheers Richard :)

Hi Richard, I've got a 455 with a Muncie M20 supported by that funky mount. It works because the engine mounts react the torque, all the rear trans mount has to do is keep the tail of the transmission from wandering. Haven't had any issues so far.

BTW, I think it was Deadhead who took those nice photos of the undercarriage of his wagon. On my Catalina, I ran the E-brake cables above the crossmember rather than below. Not sure which was is "correct" but by running them above it, they certainly rub less.

-Jon

sweet as
 

Thanks for the "nice" photos Deadhead, certinaly helps having them.
Having the x-member further back will give more room for the exhaust.
I also note that my muncie has the speedo drive on the passenger side, which makes for less cluter around the shifter rods.
Cheers Richard