What do you think of Volkswagen?
 

Since there's so many mechanics and automotive experts on this board I was curious about how you all feel about Volkswagen. Here is my situation. I am currently leasing a GTI. I really love the car. I needed something for commuting and running errands that was still fun to drive. When I looked at all the possibilities, nothing in my opinion came close to the GTI. I like that it gets good gas milage, is quick and agile enough to knife through traffic, and has some style (I work at a university and there's tons of hot chicks all around :)). I think I would like to buy it after the lease but I'm afraid of Volkswagen's notorious reliability problems. It seems that every commuter car out there that is reliable is about as exciting as a toaster. Everything that is cool either is too expensive, gets crappy mileage, or isn't practical for everyday use in Minnesota. Is VW getting better, should I give them a chance and buy the thing? Throw more money at another lease? Take the bus? I appreciate the advise!

Is it manufactured in Europe? I've heard that the standards for producing insulated wiring in Europe cause it to fail in 3-4 years. Like an MB needing an entire dash harness. You should do some research on this.

That doesn't sound good! It was assembled in Germany, the engine was built in Hungary.

I another recent thread several people have reported good experiences with VW... and a few voiced differing opinions.

The end of our 3rd modern VW is approaching. We've had 3 Passats- all bought new and driven until they had nearly 100K miles. No significant issues with any of them. The current one is a 2008 with almost 95K on it and it's been great. I all likelihood it will be replaced with another new Passat- TDI this time, I think.

All of our previous Passats have been German built, whereas many/most Golfs and Jettas are Mexican built- that may have some affect on higher rate of issues in those models. Is your GTI German built?

Is your GTI the 2.0T? All of our Passats have been 1.8/2.0T with manual trans.

The deal with wire harnesses is some manufactures have used soy based insulation, and it is apparently attractive to rodents who like to chew on it. Mercedes and Honda used it, I don't know if other manufacturers did. From what I've found online it's an issue on cars from the mid 1990s.

One thing I noticed a few years back was to find out where the transmission was made. The German\USA made ones had better reliability than the ones sourced from Mexico. This is going on 7-8 years ago though, it could have changed.

Yes, it's German built with the 2.0T and a 6 speed manual. Apparently this new 2.0T is an improved design with a timing chain rather than belt. It always seems strange to me that VW is so popular in Europe and not as much here. Maybe the Mexico thing has something to do with it.

My mother has had a Passat for well over 100k. No major issues until a heater issue came up a week or so ago.

It is a Godsend that it has not had issues as all the mechanics I talk to basically refuse to work on them. If any major work of any kind needs to be done it is hell, and you are basically beholden to the dealer. They are not designed to be repaired IME. For this reason, if buying used, I would want to make sure I saw all the service records to make sure it had been mechanically well maintained.

Maybe we're afraid that they are "illegals". Sorry, couldn't resist.

Go onto vwvortex.com forum and start reading or asking actual real world owners of those newer GTI's .

i know a few locals with them - not heard anything bad.
But i focus on Vw Diesels and don't follow the gassers hardly at all.

Predicted reliability on a used car in this case might be judged by how its performed up until now. And since your the owner, that should play a part in your decision.

I like these cars and wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

Farfrumpuking!
 

Backwards engineering, bolts to hold the wheels on.

Most European and many new American cars have lug bolts.

Wiring is not the issue with the Vw:s/Audi its the engines. Cam chains, DSG gearboxes and oilpumps together with the VAG-groups non interest in helping the car owners. There is apperantly a plan for group sueing VAG in sweden due to this....
When I get rid of my Passat it will take a long time before I'll buy a VAG car again.

A.J., can you fill us in a little on your troubles? Year, model and engine? More info would help to determine if the problems you've had are relevant to others.

Found that true for Dodge and Jeeps.

The VW has always been inexpensive transportation in Europe. It's basically the lowend Ford or Chevy of Germany. It's not that it a highly desireable car - it's just cheaper than most every other option.

I lived there for over three years. People settled for VW's while wanting something better.

I have a 2002 VW Jetta 2.0 5sp manual. 210,000
I have replaced the spark plugs and wires 2 times. Had to replace the original battery last year. Yes it lasted 9 years. One timing belt at 180k. I finally replaced the alternator last weekend. Died on me coming home. Very easy to replace.
I like the ergonomics of the VW over anything made in detroit. Ford is close with thiers but GM is way off for me. 35 mpg on the highway.
My next one will be a TDI.
Oil changes with filter every 3k. Iirc replace the air filter 2 times.
a couple sets of brake pads and some tires. thats it. Nothing major.
Had a recall on the heated seats back in 04 I think.
I named mine Timex. I have been in two rear end collisions. Due too resale value they replaced the back end both times. Cost a lot more to fix me than it did my Jetta.

patrick

I haven't heard anything bad about them.

In fact, I have some family members who own, and are crazy about them.

I however am not a fan. Many German cars are really well engineered, and I wish the domestics would step up their game. But unfortunately, I find that I often clash with German car owners. Many of them seem to purchase these cars with an air of social status and believe them to be superior machines, which like I said in many cases they are. But when I was consistently beating many 6-cyl 3-series cars with a 25 yr old 4-cyl datsun, I in fact had one owner refer to my car as a poor man's BMW - which, makes me really, really not care for those guys.

I had viewed a reallty nice orange GTI at the dealer a few years back. I sporteda 190hp motor with a 2-door hatch and fwd for $27k. Down at the Subaru dealer they had a 225hp, all wheel drive 4-door or wagon for the same price. I do believe the VW would probably last longer, and gain that social status German thing I seem to notice, but there is no way, as a car enthusiast, and a "poor man" that I would opt for the VW.

And there you have it; that's what I think of VWs. But remember, that's just my opinion - take it with a grain of salt.

I used to be into the VW scene. Going to vwvortex.com is good advice. VWs have superior fit and finish but reliability can suspect. Regular maintenance schedules MUST be adhered to. Especially when dealing with timing belts and timing chains. Snap a belt or chain and you will be buying a new head as most VW engines are interference in nature. If you keep the the maintenance schedule, you should have a decent ownership experience.

The trouble is, a lot of people don't stick to the schedule, so you get a VR6 Jetta with 80K on the clock and the chains were due at 75k. It's going to run you over $1,000 do have the chains done. So the car gets sold and the new owner is stuck having it sone of the chains break and you're out another 3 grand to have the head replaced.

Another thing. Historically, the service experience at the dealer is bad, at best. If you're lucky enough to find a friendly dealer, stick with them. An independent shop is usually the way to go. Much less expensive, too.

In a nutshell, KNOW THE SERVICE HISTORY or don't buy a used VW. Learn to do a lot of the maintenance ir get real chummy with a shop that specializes in VW. For you Illinois VW owners, I'll plug my buddy's shop. Mobile One www.mobileoneinc.com The owner, Jason, is a wizard and is damn honest. He's the only guy I ever trusted with my Corrado and he does fantastic work.

Thanks for all the advise! Hopefully I'm not developing a German car superiority complex. If someone wanted to race, I'd say "sure, let me go get my other car." :)

I have lurked around a bit on the VW forums but it's sometimes hard to get the honest truth from enthusiasts. Qball outlined most of what I have heard.
1) Stay away from the dealership!
2) Parts availability can sometimes be an issue
3) I've noticed they are very polarizing. People tend to either have great luck, like the diesel rabbit with over 1/2 a million miles, or you'd think buying a VW was the worst thing that ever happened in their life.
BTW, the Corrado (along with the original GTI) were the first VWs I really liked.

VW's are expensive to work on and seem to be more troublesome than the domestics I see.

I don't work on them but I have a buddy that does. HE hates them and from what I've seen with good reason.

Mike

I seem to remember a friend that had one and he always had problems with the pwr windows. A mechanic friend of mine replaced an automatic transmission cost him $250.00 at the junk yard, no big deal right? It cost him $150 for the fluid.

Troubles on my car. Passat estate -07 2,0FSI 6 speed manual transmission
Parking brake button breaks due to poor quality. If your unlucky the car will sit with brakes locked (electrike parking brake) happend twice. Its not R/R but you need to recalibrate the brakesystem, costs about 300$. (you cant change brakepads without calibrating the system either)

The manual gearbox started to sound like the sync-rings were worn after 85000 km. The VW dealership told me over the phone that it was not within warranty and the VAG group Sweden told me that they do not talk directly with the customers.... VAG Germany was of no help either. A friend who runs a shop pulled the gearbox and got me another on from Germany. The old gearbox had only 1/3 of the oil quantity but no sign of leaks. The gearboxes does not ever get any oilchanges following WV: maintenace program. Lucky me I had an insurance covering this so I only had to pay 800$ and without car for 3 weeks... :(
(Think the used gearbox was 7700$ covered by the insurance)
Scanning the forums I'm not the only one having that problem.

The microswitch for the trunk broke, common fault due to poor quality.
The car just feels bad rattling interior etc.

A colleague had a -10 Passat DSG7. Needed to be towed to the shop 7 times in 30000 km du to malfunction of the DSG. The shop had to download data from the car and send to VW headquarters and wait for their response and new software for the gearbox.
VW has now withdrawn the DSG7 gearbox from proffesional use like taxi and claims theres no problem for the common car owners. A car with DSG is a dead fish on the market here, if you have one you wont get rid of it.....

Other faults are surging oilpumps causing severe damage to the engine. This seems to be caused by the longlifeservice oil. Do not do the longlife service, go for the regular.

The Audi 2,0T and all V6 (same engine as in many VW) also suffer from surging oilpumps and broken camchains. The problems may start as early as 30000km on the V6. As Audi is part of the VAG group is the support and warranty is just as bad. Audis tend to be dead fish on the market as well.

My insurance company made an investigation showing the most expensive car to own due to various damages. A Passat cost in average 1850$/year in machine damages, a Golf V 2150$/year and the Audi A6 4153$/year.

In Germany Dekra performed a similar investigation showing Audi A6 and A4 in top (best) followed by the other German brands.....

Heres a link to the investigation by my insurancecompany, in swedish though.
http://www.lansforsakringar.se/priva...aderapport.pdf

One more thing...Don't, under any circumstances have them teach your son to throw a baseball.

One more thing, www.germanautoparts.com is a GREAT source for parts. These guys are very knowledgeable about V-Dubs and have good pricing.

If I were to get another VW, I'd go TDI all the way.

I'm not sure about reliability, but I have 2 master techs working forn me and when they get an RO for a repair to a VW they bawl like a couple of babies. Jon

Qball,

BINGO! VWs, like ALL German vehicles, have SCHEDULED maintenance. Keep on the schedule, you have FEW problems. Drive it like MOST Americans do, you WILL have problems. We've owned 4 Passats and 1 Eos. Other than tires on the 4motion Passat and the stow switch on the Eos, we've had ZERO problems, putting 40-50,000 miles per yr on them. I STILL trying to talk my wife into buying a TDI Passat to replace her C300
Mercedes(I HATE that car!).

Ive heard plenty of bad stories on the electrical systems on newer diesels which added up to credit card melting expenses.

X2! I can't stand working on them either.:gag: If you are going to have a complicated vehicle that doesnt make any sense like this, you might as well buy something with a lot more "snob appeal" such as a Mercedes or BMW.:2cents:

I run the other way and become scarce LOL. I am getting too old to waste my time with that mess.:gag: I then set there and watch another person fight with the electrical system-the major source of issues with these things, for anywhere from 6 hours to a few days. Other problems are usually the HVAC system,clutches and transmissions. The engines seem ok if you keep the maintainence up on them.:2cents:

The only thing worse is an Asian car superiority complex.:gag::censored::2cents:

A friend had a 2000 Jetta with 200k miles, not serviced like it should have, but it ran great for the age and miles. I still wouldn't go out and buy one.

Christ BMW? Those are worse than the VW's neither are a positive choice for a cost effective driver.
Mike

BMW and Mercedes are all overpriced headache mobiles. I was just pointing out that the VW is as complicated as the 'Higher cost" German "Snob mobiles". For economical "cost effective"transportation you need to look somewhere other than Germany. No "Mini Coopers" and other nonsense either.:2cents: I would rather walk down the street carrying a 60 year old Pontiac hubcap than drive a German made car.

I live VW's for a lot of reasons but reliability is not one of them! Everytime I think about purchasing one I remember some of my bad experiences.

My daughters friend has one; it's a fashion car for teenage girls. I'm surprised British purists don't hate those damn things compared to the orginal which was in production for over 40 years and a British icon. Hell, there's even a new Mini dealership in St Louis, hard to imagine so many want those little turds.


The old ones I'm told were good cars; friend does SCCA racing is big into those older 2002 & 320I models; he's had several rack up huge miles without too many problems.
The new ones ? Hell, I heard they don't even have dipsticks !

The people in Britain that like the actual Austin Mini I don't think care for those things. And the new BMWs don't have dipsticks. Only a matter of time before the rest of everything out there follows suit. You have to check the oil through a computer readout inside the car.:gag: You know computers never have any problems LOL.:D

No kidding. Have you ever priced replacement parts for them? It's like owning a BMW in hard maintenance labor and expensive parts without the prestige of owning a BMW...

I would consider owning a TDI over any other European vehicle newer than 1988.
I swear by GM 3800 powered cars but if the day ever comes that I can't find one.....

I got oriented to VWs through a family friend who's family had exclusively owned Rabbit diesels, Golfs and Jettas since we knew them. Usually 3rd or 4th hand and run them till they have structural failure from rust. It helps that the oldest son (a mechanical wizard) does not have any stigmas about diagnosing & fixing anything that goes wrong.
His 'never get discouraged' attitude helped me except that funky German engineering shouldn't get in the way of owning a good practical car.

BTW They run a small family owned dairy farm in LaSalle county IL, so I'll pass on the tip from Qball about where to go for serious repair.

Look up New Beetle, transmission problems on Google and you will find what I ran into.

The trans is sealed, no way to check fluid levels, and no owner servicable parts, all special tools needed to even check the fluid. Fluid is special synthetic, $40 a quart. The recommended fluid and filter change is $500.

The first car I ever bought that cost me two grand just to get rid of. Worth every penny.

VW does not stand behind their cars, will not fix known defective problems, and don't care about their customers. My experience.

Kurt

a) I thought it was BMW based mechanically.

b) Somewhat; friend bought an upscale Audi used years ago. It was a sharp image car.
He could afford the car, but not the upkeep. I remember his dad fixing ther brake system (the car was only 4 yrs old) and the parts cost over $700 and that was including his dad getting a discount at a parts place. The shops all wanted well over $2,000 with labor; that was alot of money in 1994 or 95.

c) Another friend had a BMW 7 series at the same time; I might be wrong but I think a master cylinder was $600 + just for the part. He did not have the funds for a while.

d) Both had to borrow my old reliable Bonneville (I always had 2 or more licensed cars)
while their newer superior cars were not working, which seemed to be kinda often :pound:

e) I have a near mint 924 Porsche I bought just to have something to play with in the back roads since the T/A will shortly be my daughters car. The parts for this damn thing are quickly offsetting the initial cheap purchase price :mad:

This is true, I have 5 series wagon. No dipstick, have to use the I-drive to check oil level. Only advantage is I can check oil level while driving down the road.

Overall I really like my BMW. Its definitely not a status mobile, it is after all a station wagon, I mean how many Chics are into wagons?

Yes it is overly complicated. What new car isn't? It has too many options/luxuries/features for my taste. The thing is I really like the European cars, clean designs, most are available with manual transmissions, lots of real station wagons, good handling fun to drive cars. And my BMW has the best by far controls/ergonomics of any car I have ever had. As far as "new" cars its the only one I have ever planned on keeping for a long while. It's been a real pleasure to drive. It has not been trouble free tho. I don't know if I would buy another. There isn't much out there that I find worth looking at in new cars. Best of luck to the OP on what ever he buys, its tough to find a decent "new" car IMO.

They handle and drive nice, but some are overly complex, parts are expen$ive and a pain to work on. I've had several Euro cars (and some Brit ones) in the past :

Saab 900 winter beater, 900 Turbo SPG , Triumph TR7, Jag (well, the wifes) and currently I have a 1969 Rover 2000TC stored at my cabin & Porsche 924 -

BMW:s has trouble with rust. The VW TDI need a webasto heater to get heat in the coupe during winter, at least the smaller engines.
Myself, I'm going for a Suzuki swift instead of the old Audi A6 -97 beater, when it eventually dies. I'm 70000 km overdue on the cambelt change and have just been adding oil once a year but she still runs as strong as when I bought her..... No cheap sparepart but I never need any soo....

I wonder if parts availability and price for German cars are high in Europe or if it's just a U.S. issue? If it's just this side of the Atlantic, there must be a story there. Tariffs, strategic planning by the companies, shipping, storage, distribution costs, etc.?

The joke there is that it's said the VW is actually a tool company that happens to build cars on the side. :rolleyes:

Either we're incredibly lucky, or some of you guys have bought lemons. The wife's 1st Mercedes(CLK350 coupe) had a persistant "check engine" light. Two different Mercedes dealers could not find the fault, nor would they listen to her. I took it in to a third dealer, talked to the service advisor(he was a former master tech for Mercedes) and they found the problem was one of the 6(yes,6) O2 sensors was out of range. New O2 sensor(warranty item) was installed and the light goes out and STAYED out the entire time she owned the vehicle, The C300 she has now hasn't given us one minute's problem. On the otherhand, we had an '08 Accord that spent more time in the shop than on the road.